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The Second Coming of Christ anyone?
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On May 01 2012 00:50 fabiano wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 00:20 SeaSwift wrote:On May 01 2012 00:18 NoobSkills wrote:On May 01 2012 00:08 boxman22 wrote:On April 30 2012 23:57 NoobSkills wrote:On April 30 2012 23:49 Mongolbonjwa wrote:On April 30 2012 23:46 boxman22 wrote:On April 30 2012 23:02 Mongolbonjwa wrote:
It was a miracle that even two titles were given to one person at one point of GSLs history. Let's look at winners of major tournaments prior to the true rise of flash (2009): Nada, Jaedong, Firefist, Flash, Bisu, Savior, Calm, Jaedong, Flash, Jaedong, Luxury 8 different people (out of 11) Let's look at winners of the GSL: Fruitdealer, MC, Nestea, Mvp, MC, Mvp, Nestea, Mvp, MMA, Jjakji, Dongraegu 7 different people (out of 11) Do you see much of a difference in random people being able to win? Fruitdealer faded out of the scene very fast after his GSL victory. MC won two times GSL and kinda has faded away aswell even though he was considered the best protos in the planet. Nestea and MVP both dropped to code A at one point. Jjakji came out of nowhere and while more established players fell out. Dongraegu is still pretty relevant but considering the history or SC2 "established pros", its just matter of time when he fades out too and actually this is happening already. He is also comparing apples and oranges. SCBW tournaments were 4 a year? GSL had how many? SCBW took a long time span while GSL takes about 1.5 months. All of these lead to repeat golds when really it isn't necessarily the player achieving a long period of being solid, but their own race and understanding of that race being the best at that moment and during that moment 5 tournaments happen. MVP's golds are the equivalent to maybe one SCBW gold. Those were all the tournaments from 1 year. Read what I said. That was everything from 2009 not many many years... You included non-majors. Other than MSL/OSL I don't really thing the rest count unless you want to throw in GOM/WCG even still you don't have 11 majors happening. Either way my point still stands. Dominating over 4? months (MVP) is about the same as 1 MSL/OSL title. Though I guess so does yours does as well. What stupid logic. I guess if you win the Olympics that counts as you dominating for 4 years then? Are the Olympics played over the course of 4 years? Your logic is also flawed. Anyway, it doesn't matter. The problem with SC2 is far from who wins tournaments, its actually in the game itself. But we had have enough of those and either of the sides of the brawl doesn't want to concede. Thing is, will Flash destroy everybody in SC2 proving the competition so far has been a farce? Or will Flash stay at the roster of the common top tier pro players? Which would lead us to two new questions: is SC2 cropping out the difference between a god and the mortals (which I think that it is what is gonna happen)? Will SC2 ever be fixed to bring back that difference?
unless he does dominate, in which case everyone can embrace sc2 since it does't crop out that difference.
right?
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On May 01 2012 00:50 fabiano wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 00:20 SeaSwift wrote:On May 01 2012 00:18 NoobSkills wrote:On May 01 2012 00:08 boxman22 wrote:On April 30 2012 23:57 NoobSkills wrote:On April 30 2012 23:49 Mongolbonjwa wrote:On April 30 2012 23:46 boxman22 wrote:On April 30 2012 23:02 Mongolbonjwa wrote:
It was a miracle that even two titles were given to one person at one point of GSLs history. Let's look at winners of major tournaments prior to the true rise of flash (2009): Nada, Jaedong, Firefist, Flash, Bisu, Savior, Calm, Jaedong, Flash, Jaedong, Luxury 8 different people (out of 11) Let's look at winners of the GSL: Fruitdealer, MC, Nestea, Mvp, MC, Mvp, Nestea, Mvp, MMA, Jjakji, Dongraegu 7 different people (out of 11) Do you see much of a difference in random people being able to win? Fruitdealer faded out of the scene very fast after his GSL victory. MC won two times GSL and kinda has faded away aswell even though he was considered the best protos in the planet. Nestea and MVP both dropped to code A at one point. Jjakji came out of nowhere and while more established players fell out. Dongraegu is still pretty relevant but considering the history or SC2 "established pros", its just matter of time when he fades out too and actually this is happening already. He is also comparing apples and oranges. SCBW tournaments were 4 a year? GSL had how many? SCBW took a long time span while GSL takes about 1.5 months. All of these lead to repeat golds when really it isn't necessarily the player achieving a long period of being solid, but their own race and understanding of that race being the best at that moment and during that moment 5 tournaments happen. MVP's golds are the equivalent to maybe one SCBW gold. Those were all the tournaments from 1 year. Read what I said. That was everything from 2009 not many many years... You included non-majors. Other than MSL/OSL I don't really thing the rest count unless you want to throw in GOM/WCG even still you don't have 11 majors happening. Either way my point still stands. Dominating over 4? months (MVP) is about the same as 1 MSL/OSL title. Though I guess so does yours does as well. What stupid logic. I guess if you win the Olympics that counts as you dominating for 4 years then? Are the Olympics played over the course of 4 years? Your logic is also flawed. Anyway, it doesn't matter. The problem with SC2 is far from who wins tournaments, its actually in the game itself. But we had have enough of those and either of the sides of the brawl doesn't want to concede. Thing is, will Flash destroy everybody in SC2 proving the competition so far has been a farce? Or will Flash stay at the roster of the common top tier pro players? Which would lead us to two new questions: is SC2 cropping out the difference between a god and the mortals (which I think that it is what is gonna happen)? Will SC2 ever be fixed to bring back that difference?
I like your post the first one that actually had a solid point. Even mine so far were just ramblings 
Flash probably won't be the only one back on top, but the BW pros will probably prove that what we have so far has been a farce, and if they're not leagues about the rest I think/hope that Blizzard would use the next to games (if competition became stale) to fix that. Though with them who knows. The company seems to be on a downturn with their other series just making pretty games that require no intelligent thought by the player.
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I'm so glad that flash seems like he's having fun playing. I would hate if someone with so much talent such as himself was playing without the passion they had in BW. After all, the passion, the fun, and the competition is whats most important. I don't really care if he's not on top of the competitive scene like he was in BW. As long as he's enjoying himself. Because he deserves it.
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On May 01 2012 00:52 Vari wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 00:50 fabiano wrote:On May 01 2012 00:20 SeaSwift wrote:On May 01 2012 00:18 NoobSkills wrote:On May 01 2012 00:08 boxman22 wrote:On April 30 2012 23:57 NoobSkills wrote:On April 30 2012 23:49 Mongolbonjwa wrote:On April 30 2012 23:46 boxman22 wrote:On April 30 2012 23:02 Mongolbonjwa wrote:
It was a miracle that even two titles were given to one person at one point of GSLs history. Let's look at winners of major tournaments prior to the true rise of flash (2009): Nada, Jaedong, Firefist, Flash, Bisu, Savior, Calm, Jaedong, Flash, Jaedong, Luxury 8 different people (out of 11) Let's look at winners of the GSL: Fruitdealer, MC, Nestea, Mvp, MC, Mvp, Nestea, Mvp, MMA, Jjakji, Dongraegu 7 different people (out of 11) Do you see much of a difference in random people being able to win? Fruitdealer faded out of the scene very fast after his GSL victory. MC won two times GSL and kinda has faded away aswell even though he was considered the best protos in the planet. Nestea and MVP both dropped to code A at one point. Jjakji came out of nowhere and while more established players fell out. Dongraegu is still pretty relevant but considering the history or SC2 "established pros", its just matter of time when he fades out too and actually this is happening already. He is also comparing apples and oranges. SCBW tournaments were 4 a year? GSL had how many? SCBW took a long time span while GSL takes about 1.5 months. All of these lead to repeat golds when really it isn't necessarily the player achieving a long period of being solid, but their own race and understanding of that race being the best at that moment and during that moment 5 tournaments happen. MVP's golds are the equivalent to maybe one SCBW gold. Those were all the tournaments from 1 year. Read what I said. That was everything from 2009 not many many years... You included non-majors. Other than MSL/OSL I don't really thing the rest count unless you want to throw in GOM/WCG even still you don't have 11 majors happening. Either way my point still stands. Dominating over 4? months (MVP) is about the same as 1 MSL/OSL title. Though I guess so does yours does as well. What stupid logic. I guess if you win the Olympics that counts as you dominating for 4 years then? Are the Olympics played over the course of 4 years? Your logic is also flawed. Anyway, it doesn't matter. The problem with SC2 is far from who wins tournaments, its actually in the game itself. But we had have enough of those and either of the sides of the brawl doesn't want to concede. Thing is, will Flash destroy everybody in SC2 proving the competition so far has been a farce? Or will Flash stay at the roster of the common top tier pro players? Which would lead us to two new questions: is SC2 cropping out the difference between a god and the mortals (which I think that it is what is gonna happen)? Will SC2 ever be fixed to bring back that difference? unless he does dominate, in which case everyone can embrace sc2 since it does't crop out that difference. right?
Athletes that won back-to-back olympic golds, also dominated and held world records between each olympics in minor events.
Its highly likely that if we doubled the amount of starleagues in Flash's dominating run, he would have won those as well doubling his medal tally. When Flash was in his peak it wasn't even a contest, he was going 3:0 3:1 in grandfinals with builds that made you go "WTF am I still watching BW?" and this spanned between 3-4 seasons.
Example
Seeing 14cc into 1-1-1 Valkonic (never really seen before in this style), is like if you saw MVP go 15CC into Marine Raven in the grandfinal. Next game, 14CC into Mass Goliath/Stim Marine +1 with 1-2 medics, which is like (and as rare as) Thor/Marine with no medivacs, just pure firepower.
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On May 01 2012 00:50 fabiano wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 00:20 SeaSwift wrote:On May 01 2012 00:18 NoobSkills wrote:On May 01 2012 00:08 boxman22 wrote:On April 30 2012 23:57 NoobSkills wrote:On April 30 2012 23:49 Mongolbonjwa wrote:On April 30 2012 23:46 boxman22 wrote:On April 30 2012 23:02 Mongolbonjwa wrote:
It was a miracle that even two titles were given to one person at one point of GSLs history. Let's look at winners of major tournaments prior to the true rise of flash (2009): Nada, Jaedong, Firefist, Flash, Bisu, Savior, Calm, Jaedong, Flash, Jaedong, Luxury 8 different people (out of 11) Let's look at winners of the GSL: Fruitdealer, MC, Nestea, Mvp, MC, Mvp, Nestea, Mvp, MMA, Jjakji, Dongraegu 7 different people (out of 11) Do you see much of a difference in random people being able to win? Fruitdealer faded out of the scene very fast after his GSL victory. MC won two times GSL and kinda has faded away aswell even though he was considered the best protos in the planet. Nestea and MVP both dropped to code A at one point. Jjakji came out of nowhere and while more established players fell out. Dongraegu is still pretty relevant but considering the history or SC2 "established pros", its just matter of time when he fades out too and actually this is happening already. He is also comparing apples and oranges. SCBW tournaments were 4 a year? GSL had how many? SCBW took a long time span while GSL takes about 1.5 months. All of these lead to repeat golds when really it isn't necessarily the player achieving a long period of being solid, but their own race and understanding of that race being the best at that moment and during that moment 5 tournaments happen. MVP's golds are the equivalent to maybe one SCBW gold. Those were all the tournaments from 1 year. Read what I said. That was everything from 2009 not many many years... You included non-majors. Other than MSL/OSL I don't really thing the rest count unless you want to throw in GOM/WCG even still you don't have 11 majors happening. Either way my point still stands. Dominating over 4? months (MVP) is about the same as 1 MSL/OSL title. Though I guess so does yours does as well. What stupid logic. I guess if you win the Olympics that counts as you dominating for 4 years then? Are the Olympics played over the course of 4 years? Your logic is also flawed.
It was a response to the claim that:
On May 01 2012 00:18 NoobSkills wrote:
Dominating over 4? months (MVP) is about the same as 1 MSL/OSL title
In an OSL, while it is played over the course of 4 months, the seed system completely undermines the fact that it is played over such a long period. If you are "dominating", you will have a seed from the previous StarLeague, so you only play in half the league anyway. Not to mention that you can win an OSL while only scraping through the prelims and group stages, so in no way does winning an OSL mean that you were dominating for the whole 4 months.
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On May 01 2012 00:50 SCVonSteroids wrote:
The Second Coming of Christ anyone?
Nay, the Jews were right, the true messiah has come.
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On May 01 2012 00:52 Vari wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 00:50 fabiano wrote:On May 01 2012 00:20 SeaSwift wrote:On May 01 2012 00:18 NoobSkills wrote:On May 01 2012 00:08 boxman22 wrote:On April 30 2012 23:57 NoobSkills wrote:On April 30 2012 23:49 Mongolbonjwa wrote:On April 30 2012 23:46 boxman22 wrote:On April 30 2012 23:02 Mongolbonjwa wrote:
It was a miracle that even two titles were given to one person at one point of GSLs history. Let's look at winners of major tournaments prior to the true rise of flash (2009): Nada, Jaedong, Firefist, Flash, Bisu, Savior, Calm, Jaedong, Flash, Jaedong, Luxury 8 different people (out of 11) Let's look at winners of the GSL: Fruitdealer, MC, Nestea, Mvp, MC, Mvp, Nestea, Mvp, MMA, Jjakji, Dongraegu 7 different people (out of 11) Do you see much of a difference in random people being able to win? Fruitdealer faded out of the scene very fast after his GSL victory. MC won two times GSL and kinda has faded away aswell even though he was considered the best protos in the planet. Nestea and MVP both dropped to code A at one point. Jjakji came out of nowhere and while more established players fell out. Dongraegu is still pretty relevant but considering the history or SC2 "established pros", its just matter of time when he fades out too and actually this is happening already. He is also comparing apples and oranges. SCBW tournaments were 4 a year? GSL had how many? SCBW took a long time span while GSL takes about 1.5 months. All of these lead to repeat golds when really it isn't necessarily the player achieving a long period of being solid, but their own race and understanding of that race being the best at that moment and during that moment 5 tournaments happen. MVP's golds are the equivalent to maybe one SCBW gold. Those were all the tournaments from 1 year. Read what I said. That was everything from 2009 not many many years... You included non-majors. Other than MSL/OSL I don't really thing the rest count unless you want to throw in GOM/WCG even still you don't have 11 majors happening. Either way my point still stands. Dominating over 4? months (MVP) is about the same as 1 MSL/OSL title. Though I guess so does yours does as well. What stupid logic. I guess if you win the Olympics that counts as you dominating for 4 years then? Are the Olympics played over the course of 4 years? Your logic is also flawed. Anyway, it doesn't matter. The problem with SC2 is far from who wins tournaments, its actually in the game itself. But we had have enough of those and either of the sides of the brawl doesn't want to concede. Thing is, will Flash destroy everybody in SC2 proving the competition so far has been a farce? Or will Flash stay at the roster of the common top tier pro players? Which would lead us to two new questions: is SC2 cropping out the difference between a god and the mortals (which I think that it is what is gonna happen)? Will SC2 ever be fixed to bring back that difference? unless he does dominate, in which case everyone can embrace sc2 since it does't crop out that difference. right?
I think Flash dominating will go a long way in proving to any skeptics that SC2 is a game of skill worthy of succeeding BW (not necessarily a better game, per se).
However, I really think we can look at MarineKing right now and say he is almost just that kind of dominating player. At the very least I think MKP proves how consistent one can be at SC2 and that it indeed is a game that rewards the skilled, well-rounded, intelligent player.
Looking at his Liquipedia page - http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/MarineKing - you find that MKP has been winning or almost winning things nearly once a month since November 2010. Remember that he hit the scene in a big way all the way back in GSL Open Season 2 with his amazing marine micro and memorable finals against NesTea.
I would very much expect that Flash, if he is truly passionate about the game, will come to dominate the scene. Within a year or so I think he will create a tier of skill above that of our current idea (MVP/DRG/MC/MKP/Parting). I think HOTS will only play into that as it will even the playing field among "newcomers" and SC2 veterans a bit more.
Now, if that doesn't happen, if Flash doesn't rise up to "God tier", then we will have to evaluate that situation. For example, we will need to see where Bisu, Jaedong, and other BW masters are sitting. The possibility is there that SC2 may lend itself to a completely different kind of player and even though I would say that the current BW God-tier has those skills, who can really say for sure? At the very least, I really look forward to watching their games.
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I can't wait, that he starts playing and gets raped by Code-B players. That should shut up all these fanboys on TL!
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Flash dumping BW is the last nail in the coffin.
However... THIS IS AMAZING FOR SC2!! God I cant wait to see him tear it up :D
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On May 01 2012 00:11 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2012 23:49 Mongolbonjwa wrote:On April 30 2012 23:46 boxman22 wrote:On April 30 2012 23:02 Mongolbonjwa wrote:
It was a miracle that even two titles were given to one person at one point of GSLs history. Let's look at winners of major tournaments prior to the true rise of flash (2009): Nada, Jaedong, Firefist, Flash, Bisu, Savior, Calm, Jaedong, Flash, Jaedong, Luxury 8 different people (out of 11) Let's look at winners of the GSL: Fruitdealer, MC, Nestea, Mvp, MC, Mvp, Nestea, Mvp, MMA, Jjakji, Dongraegu 7 different people (out of 11) Do you see much of a difference in random people being able to win? Fruitdealer faded out of the scene very fast after his GSL victory. MC won two times GSL and kinda has faded away aswell even though he was considered the best protos in the planet. Nestea and MVP both dropped to code A at one point. Jjakji came out of nowhere and while more established players fell out. Dongraegu is still pretty relevant but considering the history or SC2 "established pros", its just matter of time when he fades out too and actually this is happening already. MVP is still more relevant than anyone on that list, but that's beside the point completely. In fact, MVP + Nestea combines has over half of all GSL winnings (much more if we include other major tournaments, or the fact that both of them didn't really enter the scene until s2 or s3) First sc1 bonjwa didn't happen until 2005, a good 5 or 6 years after game releases. Don't compare different things now
The term "bonjwa" might have been used for the first time around 2005.
Boxer hit his peak way before that (2000-2004) but hes called bonjwa anyways.
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Practicing SC2?
So he forgot that he has OSL right?
Weird.
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On May 01 2012 03:14 Kaesebrot wrote:
I can't wait, that he starts playing and gets raped by Code-B players. That should shut up all these fanboys on TL!
think of every mistake that players like MVP and MKP make then think about them not only not making that mistake but making an entirely better decision altogether and not only better but faster and more efficient and doing that while expanding and dropping your main, yeah, that is what Flash is going to be like
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On May 01 2012 03:48 Arkqn wrote:
Practicing SC2?
So he forgot that he has OSL right?
Weird.
one hand for OSL and the other for SC2
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On May 01 2012 03:48 Arkqn wrote:
Practicing SC2?
So he forgot that he has OSL right?
Weird.
I don't think that they really mean practice, I think they just mean he is learning the game.
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On May 01 2012 02:45 Hakanfrog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 00:50 SCVonSteroids wrote:
The Second Coming of Christ anyone? Nay, the Jews were right, the true messiah has come.
Had to be sweden XD
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I want to see his games so badly. Hope he doesn't give up BW though, he can dominate both (simultaneously, one hand for each of course).
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On May 01 2012 03:16 DarkGeneral wrote:
Flash dumping BW is the last nail in the coffin.
However... THIS IS AMAZING FOR SC2!! God I cant wait to see him tear it up :D
bw is dead
long live sc2!
User was temp banned for this post.
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I don't like this thead at all, especially because of the poster's last bit.
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Honestly, I've never been into RTS until SC2 so I don't know much about Flash beyond what I've heard, but if he's as good as everyone says then I can't wait to see what he's capable of doing with SC2. Pumped!
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EPT
