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On April 12 2012 07:08 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 07:00 R0YAL wrote:On April 12 2012 06:57 VirgilSC2 wrote:
Please for the love of all that is holy do not continue with the Oracle.
The last thing Protoss needs is a "harass" unit that can't kill workers. Also, if your big thing about the Oracle is that we can see what is being produced, make the Stargate stop showing what it's making. It's the only building in the game (except the Nexus) that gives away what it's producing.
I don't see why they can't just:
Remove Thor/Warhound and Add Goliath
Remove Swarm Host and add Lurker
Fix Carrier and scrap Tempest Because Browder says that if you want to use those units, go play bw because it's a great game. So then why is he trying to add them to HotS under the guise of different units?
I don't know, ask him. He'll probably say something along the lines of "The Warhound is not like the Goliath because the Warhound does bonus damage to armored and has aoe air attack, which differs from the Goliath." Don't expect an outstanding answer because he has no grasp on good unit design theory.
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What I want from Terran mech:
1. EMP shifting to the Starport. Seriously, let me fly it around so Protoss don't just build mass chargelot and roll me. If they have to build stalkers I can hurt them. Badly. It also gives TvP bio a nice gas dump.
2. Remove the air attack from Thors, let them either fire nukes or use shields or something like that - basically something to tank seige tank fire so you can break it directly. Yes, I know they can do this by basically sitting there and absorbing seige tank fire right now, but something to make it a little more effective than it is right now. Also, shrink them a bit.
3. Make the Warhound a low damage, really fast firing unit which does bonus damage against armoured. Allow them to drop the skyburst mines or whatever.
4. A small buff to direct seige tank damage.
I know nothing about the game, really, but that's my wishlist. As long as they keep skyterran viable w/ battlecruiser speed upgrades and make mech work in TvP I don't really care what they do.
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awww the shredder was such a cool spidermine replacement. could have made it not damage floating units. (workers and archons). I like the air mine idea, as seeker was kinda meh after the nerf. But i guess mech is dead in all matchups with HotS.
Another way of Nuke in TvT. Long range siege weapon in the air for toss. Which is somehow the carrier already, but oh well, Blizzard seems to like the tempest design more.
But if this super long range missile works on air as well, then yay.
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ugh, the long rande missile sounds like such a silly idea. It sounds like something from C&C. Just what we need more units to encourage turtling. Same goes for the new Tempest. Though the new zerg Nydus sounds pretty intresting.
We need more early and mid game units, not tier-3 tech we'll never use.
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On April 12 2012 06:56 EleanorRIgby wrote:
spider mines in the air??
HOW ABOUT THE GROUND!!
anyone else curious how these air mines will look like? im imagining a PDD
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On April 12 2012 07:06 Tump wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 06:57 VirgilSC2 wrote:
Please for the love of all that is holy do not continue with the Oracle.
The last thing Protoss needs is a "harass" unit that can't kill workers. Because proxy warpin Zealots/Dark Templar aren't enough? Or Warp Prisms to ferry in Zealots/Stalkers/High Templar/Dark Templar/Immortals/Archons? Or Colossus to abuse cliffs to snipe workers like the natural on Tal'darim? Or units like Blink Stalkers/Phoenix/Void Rays? Just not quite enough worker killing units huh? You're in over your head. The Oracle is a cool unit with a lot of potential.
Did you notice how almost everything you listed needed another factor to become "harassment"?
By your list EVERY unit in the game is a harassment unit.
Obviously the Thor is a good harassment unit because you can put it in a Medivac and drop it to kill workers.
Obviously the Ultralisk is a good harassment unit because it can come out of a Nydus worm and splash damage workers.
The whole idea of a harassment unit is that it's effective by itself.
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I don't mean to be a buzzkill, but why are players so determined to make 'mech' work. It seems that limiting a unit composition to ONE type of building so uneffective. It turns out that 2 common play styles: MMM and Marine/tank/medivac use a variety of infrastructure. When i hear people want to play mech i think of it like playing all robo/stargate as protoss, and not using gateways.
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On April 12 2012 07:13 FeyFey wrote:
awww the shredder was such a cool spidermine replacement. could have made it not damage floating units. (workers and archons). I like the air mine idea, as seeker was kinda meh after the nerf. But i guess mech is dead in all matchups with HotS.
Another way of Nuke in TvT. Long range siege weapon in the air for toss. Which is somehow the carrier already, but oh well, Blizzard seems to like the tempest design more.
But if this super long range missile works on air as well, then yay.
There's no reason for Bliz to remove shredder. No shredder (or similar function) = no mech. Worker kills? How is it any different than a storm drop or a baneling drop? It's not.
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THE TRUTH COMES OUT.
everyone loves the overseer.
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On April 12 2012 07:16 Isaac wrote:
I don't mean to be a buzzkill, but why are players so determined to make 'mech' work. It seems that limiting a unit composition to ONE type of building so uneffective. It turns out that 2 common play styles: MMM and Marine/tank/medivac use a variety of infrastructure. When i hear people want to play mech i think of it like playing all robo/stargate as protoss, and not using gateways.
Cause one match-up is pigeon-holed to bio, and recent meta game shifts are making that match-up more difficult because of it. I'm pretty sure if mech were viable, bio would be as well. I wouldn't mind seeing both.
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I'm sad that the viper anti darkswarm only works vs bio now. I was looking forward to using it zvp vs the deathball.
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On April 12 2012 07:17 oxxo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 07:13 FeyFey wrote:
awww the shredder was such a cool spidermine replacement. could have made it not damage floating units. (workers and archons). I like the air mine idea, as seeker was kinda meh after the nerf. But i guess mech is dead in all matchups with HotS.
Another way of Nuke in TvT. Long range siege weapon in the air for toss. Which is somehow the carrier already, but oh well, Blizzard seems to like the tempest design more.
But if this super long range missile works on air as well, then yay. There's no reason for Bliz to remove shredder. No shredder (or similar function) = no mech. Worker kills? How is it any different than a storm drop or a baneling drop? It's not.
I think the issue was that the shredder was supposed to be a map control unit but that was not what anyone was using it for. For all we know, it was even better than BF hellions at killing workers.
On April 12 2012 07:16 Isaac wrote:
I don't mean to be a buzzkill, but why are players so determined to make 'mech' work. It seems that limiting a unit composition to ONE type of building so uneffective. It turns out that 2 common play styles: MMM and Marine/tank/medivac use a variety of infrastructure. When i hear people want to play mech i think of it like playing all robo/stargate as protoss, and not using gateways.
Terran and Protoss don't really work the same way tech-wise. I mean hellions are the mineral dump in a mech army and come out of reactors. For all intents and purposes, hellions would be a 'gateway' unit.
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as long as they fix tvp i'll be happy
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On April 12 2012 07:17 oxxo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 07:13 FeyFey wrote:
awww the shredder was such a cool spidermine replacement. could have made it not damage floating units. (workers and archons). I like the air mine idea, as seeker was kinda meh after the nerf. But i guess mech is dead in all matchups with HotS.
Another way of Nuke in TvT. Long range siege weapon in the air for toss. Which is somehow the carrier already, but oh well, Blizzard seems to like the tempest design more.
But if this super long range missile works on air as well, then yay. There's no reason for Bliz to remove shredder. No shredder (or similar function) = no mech. Worker kills? How is it any different than a storm drop or a baneling drop? It's not.
the idea is scrapped though. And now banelings will burrow into your bases and explode underground with no warning at all unless you have detection in their moving path. I would say their terran testers are just 300 times better then their zerg and toss testers lol.
Was just pointing out they didn't give the shredder a real chance with my sentence, like the tempest will now become exactly what the carrier is now, just more boring.
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thank god theres hope for hots now
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On April 12 2012 07:16 Isaac wrote:
I don't mean to be a buzzkill, but why are players so determined to make 'mech' work. It seems that limiting a unit composition to ONE type of building so uneffective. It turns out that 2 common play styles: MMM and Marine/tank/medivac use a variety of infrastructure. When i hear people want to play mech i think of it like playing all robo/stargate as protoss, and not using gateways.
Protoss ground ugrades affect all ground units. Terran have separate upgrades for bio and mech.
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On April 12 2012 07:15 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 07:06 Tump wrote:On April 12 2012 06:57 VirgilSC2 wrote:
Please for the love of all that is holy do not continue with the Oracle.
The last thing Protoss needs is a "harass" unit that can't kill workers. Because proxy warpin Zealots/Dark Templar aren't enough? Or Warp Prisms to ferry in Zealots/Stalkers/High Templar/Dark Templar/Immortals/Archons? Or Colossus to abuse cliffs to snipe workers like the natural on Tal'darim? Or units like Blink Stalkers/Phoenix/Void Rays? Just not quite enough worker killing units huh? You're in over your head. The Oracle is a cool unit with a lot of potential. Did you notice how almost everything you listed needed another factor to become "harassment"? By your list EVERY unit in the game is a harassment unit. Obviously the Thor is a good harassment unit because you can put it in a Medivac and drop it to kill workers. Obviously the Ultralisk is a good harassment unit because it can come out of a Nydus worm and splash damage workers. The whole idea of a harassment unit is that it's effective by itself.
Why would you even need a "harassment" unit... Thats a unit that does only one thing?
If thats what you want.. Then you should try to sign up with Blizzard.. They might have a job for you, so you can rape Starcraft some more.
Templar and/or DT's and/or Zealots + Drop/Warp-In are perfectly fine harassment.
Phoenix are fine harassment.
What more do you need/want? A Button on your nexi that spawns a Psi-Storm on the enemies Mineral Lane... Oh noe, Terra gets that with their new "extremly long range rocket".. Now you don't even need to siege their base anymore.. You can just siege in the middle of the map, build towers there and kill em whiteout even attacking... AWESOME.
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saddest thing was no carriers
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On April 12 2012 07:16 Isaac wrote:
I don't mean to be a buzzkill, but why are players so determined to make 'mech' work. It seems that limiting a unit composition to ONE type of building so uneffective. It turns out that 2 common play styles: MMM and Marine/tank/medivac use a variety of infrastructure. When i hear people want to play mech i think of it like playing all robo/stargate as protoss, and not using gateways.
Do you not understand what mech is, or why people want it? FWIS, mech has support units from both the rax and starport, just like bio has support from the factory and starport. You also can not compare the factory to the robo tech simply due to how upgrades work for terran.
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On April 12 2012 07:15 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 07:06 Tump wrote:On April 12 2012 06:57 VirgilSC2 wrote:
Please for the love of all that is holy do not continue with the Oracle.
The last thing Protoss needs is a "harass" unit that can't kill workers. Because proxy warpin Zealots/Dark Templar aren't enough? Or Warp Prisms to ferry in Zealots/Stalkers/High Templar/Dark Templar/Immortals/Archons? Or Colossus to abuse cliffs to snipe workers like the natural on Tal'darim? Or units like Blink Stalkers/Phoenix/Void Rays? Just not quite enough worker killing units huh? You're in over your head. The Oracle is a cool unit with a lot of potential. Did you notice how almost everything you listed needed another factor to become "harassment"? By your list EVERY unit in the game is a harassment unit. Obviously the Thor is a good harassment unit because you can put it in a Medivac and drop it to kill workers. Obviously the Ultralisk is a good harassment unit because it can come out of a Nydus worm and splash damage workers. The whole idea of a harassment unit is that it's effective by itself.
Wut? The whole idea of a harassment is that it pulls the opponent in multiple directions and takes out vulnerable, under-defended targets. No one gives a crap if a unit is "effective by itself", as long as it's effective in some way.
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EPT
