Bronze level players - Page 40

On March 31 2012 00:04 kochanfe wrote:
This thread is kinda silly

On March 29 2012 21:45 Umpteen wrote:


This article answers you pretty comprehensively:

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

My take on it is that no matter what you're doing, goofing around is a form of masturbation: it's fun but at the end of the day you aren't getting the most out of what you have to play with.

Now, not every pursuit in life needs to be taken seriously. There's always room for a bit of tossing off. But if that's what you choose to do, don't sneer at the people settling down and having kids, or call what you're doing 'more meaningful'.

On March 30 2012 23:47 therockmanxx wrote:
I am not quite sure about this thread....
I think that a bronze player is just a guy who either doesnt know how to play,doesnt understand the concept of strategy or is not interested to learn.

On March 31 2012 00:18 MrTortoise wrote:



Actually no it isnt. It is a demonstration of a fundamentally broken view point on the world that the vast majority of people have and causes a great deal of unhappiness.

Rather than be content people want more. That is not happiness. Happiness is contentment with what you got. But that isn;t progress. The idea of improvement is synominous with being unhappy interspersed with joyful moments.


BTW when i say fundementally broken I dont mean you fail because of your world view. I have a great deal of respect for any view like that they are all fairly valid in that they all break in some way. so don't go all nerd rage on me ... it doesn't work.


And i was having a chilled out game last night when some terran dropped me whilst atacking my front ... that has never happened in silver (sure in gold occasionally very rarely). So i was impressed and dealt with it - i had a terribel sim city so was fairly inefficient as my banelings had to roll around half the map. I rediscovered why on antiga i dont block the rear of my mineral line with buildings.

Anyway a few mins later I get poked at the front ... then dropped in my main ... but THEN he retreated there to instantly drop my third! Thats 3 ctrl groups of units ... in silver! Was pretty awesome to get owned that hard tbh.
This is in fucking silver!!! That guy was playing WAAAAYYYY above the average silver bear. Now hes a complete outlier but some players down here can actually execute something that at least requires a little bit of skill, practice and refinement - when they want to.





Your preaching to the choir i'm afraid.But you are defining 'most' in a very narrow way.
I am most certainly not sneering at people settling down to have kids ... they seem to realise that what league your in has its place in the world

On March 30 2012 07:05 Fission wrote:
I'm a bit undecided on what the deal is with bronze players. It feels like they are simply incapable of meaningful critical self-reflection on their play compared to objective standards. There are so, so many bronze players in this thread comparing their games to masters/gm/pro level games, when there is literally zero similarity.

On one hand, the leagues are demographically isolated by design, so it makes sense that bronze players only face people of similar skill level, and wouldn't have a point of reference.

On the other hand, there are millions of streams/vods/replays available, so I feel like the difference should be obvious.

Dunno.

On March 31 2012 00:29 jammedk wrote:


We do! :-) I am 37 years old btw.
Thank you for this post :-)

On March 31 2012 00:35 MrTortoise wrote:


http://gobase.org/studying/problems/tsumego/?issue=186

Here is a set of problems.

How hard are they?
The entire page of problems took me about 3 seconds to solve (well one of them actually i had to think about - the rest i just look at and see the solution as plain as you can read this text)
So how hard are they?

you have no way of knowing (unless you know how to play) but then you probably wouldn't of made your post

The problem is imagine how a bronze player describes what happens in a game ... what words and things do you think they pick out. Now think of how nestea thinks about the game and how he would describe it.

It is completely utterly different they simply do not perceive what others do and their priorities are different.

So no When i download a random replay of nestea and watch them i have to verify that it is actually him - because whilst some of what he does is clearly high level from the replay he for quite a lot of it does look like a silver level player. Because its *lots* of *tiny* things done differently that add up to a huge difference.

On March 31 2012 00:27 jammedk wrote:


It is exactly these types of posts, I was trying to stop with my post... Why can you not just accept, that some people do not have the time to improve their game? A lot of us understand strategy, correct counters and the like, but have shitty slow mechanics because we cannot practice though just 40+ games a week?

On March 31 2012 00:35 MrTortoise wrote:


http://gobase.org/studying/problems/tsumego/?issue=186

Here is a set of problems.

How hard are they?
The entire page of problems took me about 3 seconds to solve (well one of them actually i had to think about - the rest i just look at and see the solution as plain as you can read this text)
So how hard are they?

you have no way of knowing (unless you know how to play) but then you probably wouldn't of made your post
(Btw if you wanted to solve them you'd need to play for 6 years about 5 hours a day and analyse your play like you do sc2)

The problem is imagine how a bronze player describes what happens in a game ... what words and things do you think they pick out. Now think of how nestea thinks about the game and how he would describe it.

It is completely utterly different they simply do not perceive what others do and their priorities are different.

So no When i download a random replay of nestea and watch them i have to verify that it is actually him - because whilst some of what he does is clearly high level from the replay he for quite a lot of it does look like a silver level player. Because its *lots* of *tiny* things done differently that add up to a huge difference.




ahh am 31 and daren't do the kids thing yet I'm not sure i'm in a high enough league at life yet. Or some bs like that.
:D

On March 31 2012 00:44 Umpteen wrote:
So no, I can't accept that players in bronze league understand strategy and correct counters, any more than I can accept that their macro is 'good', as it is often described. These things make too big a difference too quickly when you grasp them for prolonged bronzage to be explicable.

On March 31 2012 00:45 PeanutsNJam wrote:
Silver players know what all the units are, they know what they do, they even know what "counters" what.

On March 31 2012 00:44 Umpteen wrote:


I know you weren't talking to me, but I can't accept that because I don't have any time to practice either and I'm not stuck in bronze.

I'm almost 38. I have a wife and a five year old daughter. The theoretical maximum I can play is 1 hour each weekday at lunch, plus two hours one evening per week. I do not achieve that, because I often work through lunch. I'd say I play for 3-5 hours per week, with most weeks erring on the low side.

After being stuck in silver for months, I realised that my decision-making and overall understanding of what to do under what circumstances was holding me back. This allowed me to jump up to gold league in a matter of a few days.

So no, I can't accept that players in bronze league understand strategy and correct counters, any more than I can accept that their macro is 'good', as it is often described. These things make too big a difference too quickly when you grasp them for prolonged bronzage to be explicable.

On March 31 2012 00:35 MrTortoise wrote:


http://gobase.org/studying/problems/tsumego/?issue=186

Here is a set of problems.

How hard are they?
The entire page of problems took me about 3 seconds to solve (well one of them actually i had to think about - the rest i just look at and see the solution as plain as you can read this text)
So how hard are they?

you have no way of knowing (unless you know how to play) but then you probably wouldn't of made your post
(Btw if you wanted to solve them you'd need to play for 6 years at least about 5 hours a day and analyse your play like you do sc2. Many people will never get good enough to solve them. No matter how good you think you are at sc2 you refinement skills will be abysmal in comparison to people who have got good at other games because rts has only been around for about 15 years, imagine 1000 years of metagame. So get off your high horse m8)

The problem is imagine how a bronze player describes what happens in a game ... what words and things do you think they pick out. Now think of how nestea thinks about the game and how he would describe it. IE verbally replay the game play by play.

It is completely utterly different they simply do not perceive what others do and their priorities are different.

So no When i download a random replay of nestea and watch them i have to verify that it is actually him - because whilst some of what he does is clearly high level from the replay he for quite a lot of it does look like a silver level player. Because its *lots* of *tiny* things done differently that add up to a huge difference. It is those tiny things that are hugley significant for good players but really are invisible unless you know to look for them or have named them (because then they are invisible to communication)

On March 31 2012 00:51 Lysenko wrote:


This right here is all the evidence you need to know that the lower leagues have improved since launch. :D

On March 31 2012 01:01 PeanutsNJam wrote:
Silver players have always known what the units are, what they do, and what "counters" what. It's like knowing the basic rules to any game. You have to roll the dice, and move that number of spaces on the board for Monopoly. It's the most basic knowledge. How do you play the game when you don't know that a marauder can't shoot air?

For example, many players in this thread have claimed to have "continuous worker production", and "never floating minerals", but when they post the replays in question, it is found that they do not have continuous worker production, and they are floating thousands of minerals, or w/e.

On March 31 2012 01:03 jammedk wrote:
The reason I am getting in to this debate in the first place is pretty much this: The OP just wanted to play some fun games with some likeminded players in bronze, and the whole thread turned into a ton of posts on how bad and lame he must be and how to improve. How about everybody just letting us measly bronze players have some fucking fun?!

On March 31 2012 01:07 PeanutsNJam wrote:
He's trying to say "bronze is good enough", which people are arguing against.

If you study 2 hours a day for a final exam in any class that you're currently taking for, say, a week, and get less than 20%, you have to be mentally impaired. (As long as the class isn't curved so a 20% is actually like a 80%).

On March 31 2012 01:11 Lysenko wrote:


I don't see why anyone should argue with him about this. It's not like his league status matters personally to the people who are telling him he's bad. If the point is to tell him that he doesn't have enough competitive spirit, well, yeah, so what?

On March 31 2012 01:12 PeanutsNJam wrote:
You're taking what I'm saying out of context. It's normal for the guy who doesn't care about his final exam (Starcraft 2 league) and doesn't do anything to get a 20%. It's not normal for a guy who studies 2 hours every day to get less than 20%.