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Greetings all,
I recently wrote a thread on reddit looking for fellow bronze level players who have come to accept just that - that they are bronze level players.
I got slammed pretty hard by almost everyone, except for a few who seemed glad I was having more fun enjoying my league instead of getting angry about not progressing.
Most didn't seem to think it possible that someone play 2+ hours a day, watch Day9, follow the pro scene, review my own games, etc. and remain in bronze league; why, I don't know.
So, thought I might try here.. any bronze players who consider themselves relatively hardcore and still have pretty great games in bronze?
The secondary for writing this is that I spent a long time rather frustrated that I was still in bronze, and I wasn't enjoying myself. Perhaps someone else is in this situation... a switch to being OK with your level of play might do what it did for me, and bring more enjoyment to your play time!
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I think lots of people who used to be in bronze have stopped playing. So people that still play who are in bronze are a lot better than they used to be.
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Thats true, the standard in bronze silver gold is different from what it was months/a year ago... Also day9 always says ladder rank is a measure of progress not a measure of skill and thats true...if u are using ladder to actually improve your play then you will lose lots of games as u try out new ideas and refine your play and evolve what u r doing....playing this way from the very start is easy to start and stay in bronze a long time and still have good game knowledge etc etc
its not new but its true i think u should ignore your league really and just play to improve and u will find that u get promotion anyway at a what seems random moment and then u really do realise it doesn't tell u how much your game has improved only u know that
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I might not be happy about it but I'm upper silver (which is top 8 bronze) and that's where I'm staying.
2000+ games, GSL Sub, watch D9D/Artosis/SOTG etc etc. I'm just too slow, too shit. I don't think I will ever be 'happy' about this as I know in absolute terms I'm god awful (Every game won - they suck, how can it possibly be hard to beat someone that bad. Every game lost, desk punch, raaage.)
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I think that a lot of higher level players (diamond to GM) have a gross misconception of the skill level of players in lower leagues. A gold player now is definitely not the same as a gold player a year ago.
I'm not very good, and stuck in Gold. But since the season 6 maps have come out, I'm absolutely crushing Terran and Protoss with Zerg. I used to lose to a lot of coin-flip builds and all-ins that T and P do at my level, but Cloud Kingdom and Korhal finally gave me a chance to win when I play "the right way".
There's plenty of decent players in the lower leagues that aren't bad, but struggle against cheese, playing for fun or just trying to learn to play 'right'.
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It's completely dependent on what your goal is. If your goal really is to improve there is no reason to stay in bronze for a very long time, as if you're doing it correctly you will advance quite quickly through the lower leagues. If your goal is just to have fun, then by all means be glad you're in that league.
I kinda get the situation. When I played very actively in stints, I played top diamond or low/mid masters league, but I really don't have the time to commit to the game long-term playing those 2h a day required to maintain that skill level, so I basically tanked my rank down to platinum (by playing random ♥ :D) and now I'm sitting very happy in the platinum league, Ultralisk rushing in every ZvZ and doing other weird, but fun, strategies in the other matchups.
So yeah, should I be frustrated I'm in platinum when I've already proved to myself that my skill level is quite a bit beyond that? Of course not, I choose this to enjoy the fun games I want to enjoy. I like randomly trying out to just overwhelm people with lingspam, I love going 4 hatches before pool in zvp praying they don't attack. Ultralisks are complete baller units, and dropping a terran mineral line with one as fast as possible is hilarious. I'm not trying to improve, I'm trying to have fun. I'm 27 years old in a 9-5 job with a family to run, I will never be a pro-gamer because that would mean sacrificing all the things I love in life. I am happy with that. You can't have it all.
I'm not sure if I answered your question thoroughly though, because by your schedule you seem to be implying that you want to improve (you review your games), but by your attitude you seem to want to just have some good games.
Which is it? If you're looking to improve, you need to set yourself clear goals and work towards them, and one of those goals should be hitting a certain league. Another one can be to learn to execute to perfection one build order for each matchup. If you're just looking to have fun, truck on!
You cannot improve if you choose to settle, so no, it's not fine to accept that you're just a bronze level player if your goal is to improve.
But you also cannot improve unless you really want to, if you're too busy doing cool stuff and trying to be cute, like I am, you will not improve because you're not putting the effort in.
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On March 08 2012 18:25 Defacer wrote:
I think that a lot of higher level players (diamond to GM) have a gross misconception of the skill level of players in lower leagues. A gold player now is definitely not the same as a gold player a year ago.
I'm not very good, and stuck in Gold. But since the season 6 maps have come out, I'm absolutely crushing Terran and Protoss with Zerg. I used to lose to a lot of coin-flip builds and all-ins that T and P do at my level, but Cloud Kingdom and Korhal finally gave me a chance to win when I play "the right way".
There's plenty of decent players in the lower leagues that aren't bad, but struggle against cheese, playing for fun or just trying to learn to play 'right'.
I'm sorry but this is simply not true, and it is a big reason lower league players remain in those leagues. I'm a low master league player. I don't really play much anymore, but I considered myself pretty bad. My mechanics are bad, my speed is bad, my micro is bad, I just understand what to do. However, against any gold player I could win with any race making any unit that can hit both air and ground.
The whole idea of struggling against cheese is a crutch. Struggling against cheese is a sign of a bad player. There's no such thing as playing 'the right way'. The goal is to win, and if you can't beat the other person, you're bad at playing, simple as that.
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On March 08 2012 18:25 Defacer wrote:
I think that a lot of higher level players (diamond to GM) have a gross misconception of the skill level of players in lower leagues. A gold player now is definitely not the same as a gold player a year ago.
I'm not very good, and stuck in Gold. But since the season 6 maps have come out, I'm absolutely crushing Terran and Protoss with Zerg. I used to lose to a lot of coin-flip builds and all-ins that T and P do at my level, but Cloud Kingdom and Korhal finally gave me a chance to win when I play "the right way".
There's plenty of decent players in the lower leagues that aren't bad, but struggle against cheese, playing for fun or just trying to learn to play 'right'.
Hmm i am not so sure about that.. i have a friend that is platinum in 1v1 i played him with a 90 % handicap won easy then a 80% handicap. still won easy then with a 70% handicap still won realitvely easy. at the final game i went down to 60% and it was a really really close game with me off racing as zerg he barely won cause i did a huge mistake ( main is terran ) i am mid-highmaster
For me it seems like most people in bronze-platinum just dont have the concentration or the speed to become good. i dont think its the game knowledge or that they arent smart enough to become good. everyone can get good game knowledge and decent decision making. not everybody can stay really concentrated for a long time and play really fast for a long time... its also alot of people who dont want to improve
sorry bad english.
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On March 08 2012 18:36 bigbeau wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 18:25 Defacer wrote:
I think that a lot of higher level players (diamond to GM) have a gross misconception of the skill level of players in lower leagues. A gold player now is definitely not the same as a gold player a year ago.
I'm not very good, and stuck in Gold. But since the season 6 maps have come out, I'm absolutely crushing Terran and Protoss with Zerg. I used to lose to a lot of coin-flip builds and all-ins that T and P do at my level, but Cloud Kingdom and Korhal finally gave me a chance to win when I play "the right way".
There's plenty of decent players in the lower leagues that aren't bad, but struggle against cheese, playing for fun or just trying to learn to play 'right'. I'm sorry but this is simply not true, and it is a big reason lower league players remain in those leagues. I'm a low master league player. I don't really play much anymore, but I considered myself pretty bad. My mechanics are bad, my speed is bad, my micro is bad, I just understand what to do. However, against any gold player I could win with any race making any unit that can hit both air and ground. The whole idea of struggling against cheese is a crutch. Struggling against cheese is a sign of a bad player. There's no such thing as playing 'the right way'. The goal is to win, and if you can't beat the other person, you're bad at playing, simple as that.
I'm not saying I'm good, but I certainly disagree that there isn't a difference between approaching the game by improving ones mechanics/reads and praying that your zealot rush pans out.
And I don't believe you can beat any gold player with any race with any unit. Well, maybe marines. But certainly not hydras. 
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On March 08 2012 18:36 bigbeau wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 18:25 Defacer wrote:
I think that a lot of higher level players (diamond to GM) have a gross misconception of the skill level of players in lower leagues. A gold player now is definitely not the same as a gold player a year ago.
I'm not very good, and stuck in Gold. But since the season 6 maps have come out, I'm absolutely crushing Terran and Protoss with Zerg. I used to lose to a lot of coin-flip builds and all-ins that T and P do at my level, but Cloud Kingdom and Korhal finally gave me a chance to win when I play "the right way".
There's plenty of decent players in the lower leagues that aren't bad, but struggle against cheese, playing for fun or just trying to learn to play 'right'. I'm sorry but this is simply not true, and it is a big reason lower league players remain in those leagues. I'm a low master league player. I don't really play much anymore, but I considered myself pretty bad. My mechanics are bad, my speed is bad, my micro is bad, I just understand what to do. However, against any gold player I could win with any race making any unit that can hit both air and ground. The whole idea of struggling against cheese is a crutch. Struggling against cheese is a sign of a bad player. There's no such thing as playing 'the right way'. The goal is to win, and if you can't beat the other person, you're bad at playing, simple as that.
You didn't understand what he wrote.
He wrote that current active bronze are a lot stronger than active bronze in the past, and it is very probably true. (At least I know it to be true for silver and gold level).
He never said than Bronze players could consistently beat silver/gold/... players, or ever beat a diamond+ player.
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Step 1 : Find a tactic to carry yourself out of bronze. Preferably some tactic that requires good timing because timing always helps!
Step 2 : Reach gold / platinum level
Step 3 : Now you have realised it doesn't work 80% time anymore, start to learn play properly.
Step 4 : ???????????
Step 5 : Profit
That's basically how I reached Masters from Bronze :D
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On March 08 2012 18:44 freakhill wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 18:36 bigbeau wrote:On March 08 2012 18:25 Defacer wrote:
I think that a lot of higher level players (diamond to GM) have a gross misconception of the skill level of players in lower leagues. A gold player now is definitely not the same as a gold player a year ago.
I'm not very good, and stuck in Gold. But since the season 6 maps have come out, I'm absolutely crushing Terran and Protoss with Zerg. I used to lose to a lot of coin-flip builds and all-ins that T and P do at my level, but Cloud Kingdom and Korhal finally gave me a chance to win when I play "the right way".
There's plenty of decent players in the lower leagues that aren't bad, but struggle against cheese, playing for fun or just trying to learn to play 'right'. I'm sorry but this is simply not true, and it is a big reason lower league players remain in those leagues. I'm a low master league player. I don't really play much anymore, but I considered myself pretty bad. My mechanics are bad, my speed is bad, my micro is bad, I just understand what to do. However, against any gold player I could win with any race making any unit that can hit both air and ground. The whole idea of struggling against cheese is a crutch. Struggling against cheese is a sign of a bad player. There's no such thing as playing 'the right way'. The goal is to win, and if you can't beat the other person, you're bad at playing, simple as that. You didn't understand what he wrote. He wrote that current active bronze are a lot stronger than active bronze in the past, and it is very probably true. (At least I know it to be true for silver and gold level). He never said than Bronze players could consistently beat silver/gold/... players, or ever beat a diamond+ player.
Thank you. I'd be the first to admit I still stink, and that gold players have a lot to improve. My ZvZ sucks.
I'm just saying that the skill gap between silver to platinum probably isn't as big as it used to be.
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I'm a (very) low masters zerg, and I can say with confidence (I know what it takes to get out of bronze, and I knew what it took when the game came out, too) that getting out of bronze requires the same things it ever has:
Decent macro. Basic micro. A build.
This can get you to at least platinum, and done (very) well can get you to masters (but that's not really relevant here)
Do them, you get out of bronze. If you think you're doing them and you're not out of bronze yet, you're either:
1) Not doing them when you think you are
2) Struggling with a major misconception about how to play the game, and you should probably post a rep or something so people can enlighten you.
If you're playing "hardcore"ish, 2 hrs a day, you most certainly should be flying out of bronze. Sounds a lot like you're no. 2 on the above list, and you might want to consider asking for help so you can refocus and improve.
This is all assuming you want to improve, ofc. If you're happy in Bronze, more power to you :D
If you want a bit of coaching (i'm high dia as random, so I'm competent with basic stuff of terran and toss) feel free to hit me up with a PM and I'll do my best to help you out with little things/a few practice games :D
glhf :D
EDIT: And yes, bronze is better now than it was before (naturally, since weaker players have stopped playing on the whole), but my point still stands about what's needed to get out of it. I've seen a friend go from bronze to plat very recently, just by doing the things I mentioned above. No insult to him (he knows it too) but he can't micro for shit, but his macro is solid and he has a basic build for each matchup, and that got him to plat ez.
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ya...pro players dont realize that they have a gift, it's not just practice all day derp derp. lots of people that are really smart and cant break out of 'x' league. it's all about your current mental state irl, and you evaluate what ur doing in real time in game using that mental state. i myself think that many factors irl hold me back at least 1 or 2 leagues, as i alrerady have all the knowledge and coordination required, i basically just freak out in game, and if u dont think u are, well u probably are anyway, cuz its built into ur scrubness. oh, and pro players have mastered clicking buttons in the proper order, and that shit is just dumb nerd shit u need to practice....has nothing to do with any "real" skill...
User was warned for this post
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It actually is as big as it used to be, or even bigger, leagues above bronze got harder too.
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I've played Call of Duty at a fairly high level, didn't do bad in arena on WoW either.
SC2 was my first RTS. It took me quite some reading and watching to understand how the game worked, but nonetheless I slowly advanced from bottom bronze to upper bronze and after a month or so I got to silver, next season I got to gold where I am now. I don't play a lot but I think a good mentality is the most important thing while laddering. Also TRY to be fast, TRY to use ur keybinds like a crazy nestea mofo, TRY to scout and react.
If u have been playing for that long u must know a lot of tactics, and u must know how to react to it.
U can get to platinum by 6pooling with shit micro but that's not starcraft is it?
Play like u should, improve like u should, and TRY!
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On March 08 2012 18:51 ScienceNotBusiness wrote:
oh, and pro players have mastered clicking buttons in the proper order, and that shit is just dumb nerd shit u need to practice....has nothing to do with any "real" skill...
This is actually real skill. Starcraft is for a GIGANTIC part a game of execution.
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As a terran I really disagree with going full on macro.
Honestly, terran in lower league suffers because we all know that terran needs more unit controls because they are alot more fragile. I think Terrans that are trying to get up should try to balance those 2 factors macro and micro to a good stable level.
Although macro should always have an edge over micro.
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with solely looking at your micro¯o that people suggest all the goddamn time, don't forget that your thought process and knowing what counters what(i don't mean unit counters or anything, but deep strategical decisions) or just having general knowledge of what your opponent is capable of/will the way you approached the game work out etc. is one of the most important factors. if you solely concentrate on this stupid
"1 build/improve micro¯o only" then no wonder you will stay where you are for a long time.
that game knowledge also helps against itming pushes and it helps you if you wanna execute them.hell it helps you throughout the game
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EPT
