EPTBronze level players - Page 3
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cristo1122
Australia505 Posts
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Chocobo
United States1108 Posts
On March 08 2012 19:23 Defacer wrote: Yeah, this is my problem. The idea of just doing the same build, particularly some kind of all-in, doesn't interest me. I just concentrate on spending my money, scouting, and playing as fast as possible. I'm sure if I all-in-ed more I can fluke my way up the ranks ... but it's just not my idea of fun.  Well... to put it simply... that is an important step towards getting better at the game. You have to find a couple of proven good build orders, and practice them repeatedly until you can execute them correctly without half a dozen "oops I forgot to make ___ on time" mistakes that result in your attack being 45 seconds late. You have to get a specific gameplan in mind and learn to use it skillfully... you have to learn to like offense, and realize how strong it is to interrupt an unprepared opponent. The mindset that "following a gameplan isn't fun", and "I'm just gonna make whatever random stuff I feel like" is what keeps people in bronze league. There's some undefineable thing called "fun" that you're a slave to, and you're choosing it as a goal that's more important than learning to win. It's sort of like if you knew someone who is trying to learn the English language for the first time... but the only words he will study are the terminology for video games, martial arts, and movies. That's fine and all, but if he wants to actually learn anything he needs to switch to learning a list of 100 everyday words and basic sentence structure. | ||
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aerique
Netherlands15 Posts
On March 08 2012 19:12 Shadowcloak wrote: Ok so am i the only one that thinks the leagues are easier by far? i leveld a troll from bronze to diamond last month since i have time to sc2 it up again. And i can swear it felt easier than it did in say 2010. Which seems to contradict everyone who thinks bronze silver gold are now harder because numerous people left. Doesn't it perhaps feel easier for you because back in 2010 you were new to the game while now you've already got some experience? | ||
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Nallen
United Kingdom134 Posts
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QuackPocketDuck
410 Posts
 Its a shame if people quite because of their rankings or something sc2 will be around for ages hopefully and I personally dont like changing hobbies :p .... anyone whose playing in any league now will be dominating the newcomers in the following years Just play more, none of the ladder fear stuff, get those ladder points moving so we dont have a recession on bnet 1v1 :p | ||
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Schwopzi
Netherlands954 Posts
On March 08 2012 20:12 Nallen wrote: If I was to try and say why I still suck so bad I would put it down to knowing what to do, but not doing it. Stupid right? But it doesn't seem to be changing. I have a decent inject method, I set the hotkeys for it...I just don't use it. I know I have to keep my money low but I still suddenly have 2k/1k at 40 supply every game. Knowing and doing are very different things. Accepting that I probably will never master the doing regardless of how much I know sucks, but it's the case. It's actually a really common factor in every league. People just forget what they could be doing when staring at their scouting overlord/poking stalker+zealot/etc. It's just the higher you look on the ladder the more people execute without looking at the results (ie marine drop vs zerg = drop, stim, move into good position & check back again after you macro/micro other drops/army). When you understand the game and aren't exceptionally slow (you only have to hit about 60-90 apm) you should be able to reach masters by having your camera at the right spot at the right time (and ofc doing what you need to do then, but that should flow forth from game knowledge) | ||
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zefreak
United States2731 Posts
On March 08 2012 20:12 Nallen wrote: If I was to try and say why I still suck so bad I would put it down to knowing what to do, but not doing it. Stupid right? But it doesn't seem to be changing. I have a decent inject method, I set the hotkeys for it...I just don't use it. I know I have to keep my money low but I still suddenly have 2k/1k at 40 supply every game. Knowing and doing are very different things. Accepting that I probably will never master the doing regardless of how much I know sucks, but it's the case. It's because you are not practicing the correct way. If you have to constantly remember what to do you will never get better. This is why learning a build or just practicing macro is so important. You need to do everything exactly the same a bunch of games in a row so that macro basics such as keeping up on supply, constant production, expanding etc are not decisions to be made in game but just steps to be made in a overall game plan. Trust me, you will NEVER get good without using a build order, preferably one similar to this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315507 The only reason I keep posting this link is because it helped me so much, and nothing sucks more than being stuck in bronze never getting better. | ||
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Dodgeball
Finland141 Posts
On March 08 2012 18:43 Defacer wrote: I'm not saying I'm good, but I certainly disagree that there isn't a difference between approaching the game by improving ones mechanics/reads and praying that your zealot rush pans out. And I don't believe you can beat any gold player with any race with any unit. Well, maybe marines. But certainly not hydras.  I believe him. it's totally possible Destiny went from Bronze league to Platinum just by building only drones and queens. no other units, no spines. Some of his opponents stream cheated and knew what he was doing and still lost. Dragon beats gold level players by building only SVCs, Planetary Fortresses and Turrents. 200 svc army > gold league. He also did the same build against a master league zerg, but he had to use ghosts at the end to snipe the broodlords. That master league zerg was pretty angry saying something like "you dont deserve gg". He also beats diamond league players using only mouse, no keyboard. | ||
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
Sure they are. Today's gold league is where platinum or better were in early season 1. However, that doesn't mean that they have a chance of beating today's platinum and up players. From how matchmaking has gone for the last couple seasons in gold and platinum, I have the feeling that what's really happened is that the silver through platinum range has compressed quite a bit, so high silver and low platinum are pretty close. I say this because lately normal MMR fluctuations through winning and losing streaks have matched me, a mid-gold to low plat player depending on when, against platinum players (when I'm doing well) and silver players (when doing badly) even though I don't really have long good or bad streaks. As for the OP, it's certainly possible to play a lot and learn a lot about the game and not get out of bronze. My own experience is that taking a step back and practicing macro can help. | ||
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Pusekatten
Norway234 Posts
I remembet being placed in the good old copper league before they removed it, and was stuck in bronze for a year before I got promotet to silver league, wohoo! :D The time spent in bronze was the best games I have played so far. After the promotion to silver, gold and platinum quickly followed before I got to frustrated to play zerg anymore. So just play for fun, one day you will be promoted to, in my eyes bronze is the hardest league to get out off. | ||
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On March 08 2012 20:47 Dodgeball wrote: Destiny went from Bronze league to Platinum just by building only drones and queens. no other units, no spines. Some of his opponents stream cheated and knew what he was doing and still lost. I watched much of him streaming that, and while I sympathize with the basic message (work on macro and don't worry about the rest) I think it's important to note that queens are a uniquely strong unit for Zerg for a few reasons -- they can heal, they hit both air and ground, and they require only a spawning pool to build. I think Destiny would have had a lot more trouble if he'd chosen to make, say, only zerglings, or maybe roaches. So yeah, I say learn something from the bottom-line message, but what he did isn't proof that ANY unit can be equally viable with sufficient macro. | ||
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Gulzt
Netherlands275 Posts
On March 08 2012 17:53 Adamgm wrote: Most didn't seem to think it possible that someone play 2+ hours a day, watch Day9, follow the pro scene, review my own games, etc. and remain in bronze league; why, I don't know. I can definitely confirm people like you exist. In every field really. People spending tons of time on something without learning anything. Yes they build up some knowledge but develop wrong ideas based on their incapability to truly understand what's going on. The amount of balance-complaint topics on the blizzard forums tell this story too. Even though the game is considered balanced on the high level. There is only details to talk about. If you take Day 9's advice seriously and you practice what he preaches you'd not be in bronze. Period. | ||
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On March 08 2012 21:08 Gulzt wrote: I can definitely confirm people like you exist. In every field really. People spending tons of time on something without learning anything. Yes they build up some knowledge but develop wrong ideas based on their incapability to truly understand what's going on. I think you're being too harsh. It's not necessarily that a long-term bronze league player's ideas are wrong, but that their priorities aren't what they should be. Also, an intellectual understanding doesn't necessarily lead to execution, so there may well be bronze players who know what they should be doing and just can't get there, for whatever reason. Edit: Obviously I'm talking in very broad terms -- a master league player will be thinking about the game on an entirely different level than a bronze player, but the bronze player can still have difficulty executing what he knows he should. | ||
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Iranon
United States983 Posts
On March 08 2012 20:57 Lysenko wrote: Sure they are. Today's gold league is where platinum or better were in early season 1. However, that doesn't mean that they have a chance of beating today's platinum and up players. From how matchmaking has gone for the last couple seasons in gold and platinum, I have the feeling that what's really happened is that the silver through platinum range has compressed quite a bit, so high silver and low platinum are pretty close. I say this because lately normal MMR fluctuations through winning and losing streaks have matched me, a mid-gold to low plat player depending on when, against platinum players (when I'm doing well) and silver players (when doing badly) even though I don't really have long good or bad streaks. As for the OP, it's certainly possible to play a lot and learn a lot about the game and not get out of bronze. My own experience is that taking a step back and practicing macro can help. Interesting. As someone who bought the game at release, finished a 100% brutal campaign run-through, played about 250 games of 1v1 in Season 1 and 2, and hasn't played since, I'm curious to see how much has changed. I placed into platinum, and stayed in mid-platinum (very few gold or diamond opponents). One of these days I'm going to have to start playing again and see where I stand now... Silver? Gold? Who knows. | ||
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Roblin
Sweden948 Posts
On March 08 2012 21:02 Lysenko wrote: I watched much of him streaming that, and while I sympathize with the basic message (work on macro and don't worry about the rest) I think it's important to note that queens are a uniquely strong unit for Zerg for a few reasons -- they can heal, they hit both air and ground, and they require only a spawning pool to build. I think Destiny would have had a lot more trouble if he'd chosen to make, say, only zerglings, or maybe roaches. So yeah, I say learn something from the bottom-line message, but what he did isn't proof that ANY unit can be equally viable with sufficient macro. that was not the message, the message was "its very possible to get out of the lowest leagues by mindlessly building 1 kind of unit and then attacking, with good enough mechanics, this beats low league players." there were 3 reasons queens were chosen: 1. it hits air and ground 2. you can get them before suffering buildorder losses this is a requirement because else you lose to any kind of air rush by buildorder loss, and the reason hydras were not picked is because if you rush to hydras you buildorder lose to a bunch of shit. for the record, pro players of every race have done this, building only 1 type of unit, terrans build only marines, protoss build only stalkers, those 2 got to diamond, destinies queens got him to gold. in combat mass queens are only cost efficient vs air units, nothing else. they are not uniquely strong, they have unique attack targets. 3. to prove beyond all doubt that you can do the worst strategy imaginable and as long your opponent is awful, you can win. | ||
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michielbrands
Netherlands1146 Posts
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Hulavuta
United States1252 Posts
On March 08 2012 18:43 Defacer wrote: I'm not saying I'm good, but I certainly disagree that there isn't a difference between approaching the game by improving ones mechanics/reads and praying that your zealot rush pans out. And I don't believe you can beat any gold player with any race with any unit. Well, maybe marines. But certainly not hydras. Yes you can. Destiny even did it with Queens. | ||
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Vincanity
5 Posts
SC2 was my first real RTS and I was stuck in Bronze for ~100gms in october 2010, but after I got that I had to build alot more Production than in WarCraft III, I got really fast into Plat. If you got the basics of Build SCVs, Build Units I would say it's nearly impossible to be still in Bronze. But whats so annoying is these players who are like: "I'm Top8 Bronze, what is basicly Medium Silver or Low Gold" -_- | ||
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Onlinejaguar
Australia2823 Posts
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danielrosca
Romania123 Posts
While it is true the skill level is higher, it is higher for all distribution, thus irrelevant to you for comparing a present league to other present league. Might come in handy for a morale boost when a friend is mocking you for being in bronze now while he was in silver last year, however getting all technical about it won't make you play better. Now back to being complacent: stop lying to yourself about having great games in your league, anybody ranked higher will tell you they are a complete mess. You don't compare to someone on your level to improve, you have to set the bar higher. Yes, that means you have to accept first that you suck, something the majority of people are unable to do, as stroking their own ego has a higher priority. My highest rank was top 8 diamond but because the standard for me was Masters/GM/tournaments i always considered myself mediocre (and still do). Good luck in your endeavors, but Silver, Gold, even Plat should be a given for anybody with a healthy attitude about learning and being competitive while playing consistently ~8 hours/week. | ||
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