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On March 08 2012 23:46 pigmanbear wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 23:22 Sabin010 wrote:
For instance, I'm in bronze league, I'm synching probes on the closer patches, and using strong timings. By definition, a timing is not strong if it fails against such a low-level player. The big error I often see in low-level players is the mistaken timing: They go for a two-base all-in when their opponent is also massing units and is not going for high-tech or a third base. So, there's no timing window. I think some people see a player use a roach/ling/bane timing against a hellion expanding terran in a tournament and automatically think that's a strong timing. But it's weak to useless if the terran was safely expanding while getting siege tech.
Not to mention placing your first few workers on optimal patches is hardly being "good." It is doing something extremely minor that will only reasonably effect the outcome of a game if two players are playing at an extremely high level.
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I can't understand people who watch pros yet remain in bronze, without throwing games/trying to be horrible.
All you need is one build that expands, and be able to keep making workers. Bam, ur gold or higher. It's literally that easy.
I can however understand forever-bronzies who don't follow a professional scene. It can be a lot harder to understand how to be good if you have no reference points.
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On March 09 2012 01:16 ThaZenith wrote:
I can't understand people who watch pros yet remain in bronze, without throwing games/trying to be horrible.
All you need is one build that expands, and be able to keep making workers. Bam, ur gold or higher. It's literally that easy.
I can however understand forever-bronzies who don't follow a professional scene. It can be a lot harder to understand how to be good if you have no reference points.
i dont think it's an issue with knowing what to do really. Sure most of the bronze players probably don't know what to do, but really, it's just a lack of decent mechanics, and no consistency whatsoever. If anything, watching pro-players might very well make it worse, because they see things they can't actually do, AND they decide they're going to do them. But then five games later they decide they're never going to do it again and do something else instead.
From bronze all the way up to masters/high diamond, the only real difference is consistency and mechanics, with some degree of properly interpreting scouting to increase your win rate above 50%.
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I see it didn't take long for the "taking the game seriously, still being in Bronze and enjoying it is IMPOSSIBLE" crowd to show up in this thread (specifically created because their overwhelmingly condescending attitude the OP describes on Reddit.)
People play tennis with friends without wanting to be Federer, people enjoy driving their Golf GTI at the limit without wanting to be Shumacher. Some people are happy to play at a lower level of SC2 because the skill matchup is balanced and they have a gg.
I'm not one of those people, as should be clear by now, but I am starting to realise it's the only way I will enjoy the game and I'm a little envious of OP! 
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I think pretty much anyone that is below diamond fails at one or both of these two things.
1. Constantly making scvs
2. Always spending your money
If you can do these two things, then you will have no problem getting into diamond.
And to expand on this for people who are trying to get better
- Scouting is half the battle( where is my opponents army, what is his army composition, what is he teching too?)
-learning what counters what.
- what is your weakness? work on it or support it by alternating your play style to avoid or cover up your weakness. I think a lot of people arent great late game or early game so maybe play more defensive early game or try to do 2 base timings if youre not great late game.
-always scout ahead of your army
-always fight in a favorable position for your army.
-learn to stop different cheeses, all ins whatever( youtube videos of how to stop these builds and learn them)
- learn an opening thats good against mostly everything and be perfect at. Whenever i was in lower leagues i learned a build for each race that let me scout regularly and be able to respond to anything i scouted from there its just making scvs and spending your money to make units.
I could go on but i think those are a few tips to improve your gameplay. Make sticky notes and put them next to your screen it will help for reminders.
And my personal opinion on apm and spamming at beginning of games. When I started in beta i had 40- 50 apm. I was a silver level player. I started spaming so I could train my muscles to move faster to these common movements that you make all game long. Eventually my apm went up and ive improved my apm by over a 100 actions per minute. So spam, but spam normal game actions, boxing, clicking buildings or mineral patches, hitting your control groups constantly.
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I just don't think anyone who plays the game on a regular basis and watches replays and some pro level should have a problem being gold or plat. If you scout early for proxys and 6 pools and have an apm above 10 u should have no problem winning 2 of 3 games by using the most safe/ easiest build orders in bronze and silver. Bronze may have improved in the last year but I still believe that it's close to impossible to stay in bronze and it not be on purpose
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On March 09 2012 01:26 Sky0 wrote:
And my personal opinion on apm and spamming at beginning of games. When I started in beta i had 40- 50 apm. I was a silver level player. I started spaming so I could train my muscles to move faster to these common movements that you make all game long. Eventually my apm went up and ive improved my apm by over a 100 actions per minute. So spam, but spam normal game actions, boxing, clicking buildings or mineral patches, hitting your control groups constantly.
someone @hsc said something like
you start out by spamming the first 2 minutes then 3 then 4 and then 5 and hope that someday you can do this all game long.
but thats only one option.
you can also just play and hope that you will have a natural increase.
my apm increased for about 30 over 1year without concentrating on it.
just play.
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On March 08 2012 23:22 Sabin010 wrote:
I can tell you the average skill level in the bronze league is much higher than a year ago. For instance, I'm in bronze league, I'm synching probes on the closer patches, and using strong timings. When I first started I never even built sentries (other than 1 or two max for holding a ramp), but now I can donut groups and storm them/ use the forcefields to keep enemy units at colossus/stalker/immortal max range, and lots of multi-tasking. I recently won a bronze league PvZ (big macro game ended when both had 5+ bases and I got a nice flank on his broodlords) and was complemented on my multi-tasking. The opponent said he was using his best micro and macro, but I was on top of him at every step.
The biggest reason for my low league status is I'm stubborn and think I can design some new innovative build or something. I'll try these strategies like pheonix -> DTs -> mothership and lose 10 strait games because the build just doesn't work against any kind of standard play.
TL:DR playing the game should be playing. If you're in bronze play it for fun, don't get discouraged, and don't be embaressed. You're not going to be winning a code-s championship anytime soon, but don't let that stop you from having some fun.
I don't mean to be rude, but I think you're just making excuses for yourself here. No one is "stuck" in Bronze because they like to do weird strats. Perhaps gold. Definitely platinum. But not bronze. At that point there are way bigger issues involved.
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feel free to post your most awesome game.
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If youre bronze, just scout if hes doing the standard build for his race.
1 gate, gas, cyber or 1rax gas depot or hatch pool
if not hes cheesing or dumb and just do a 1base allin
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On March 09 2012 00:57 pigmanbear wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 00:52 Wrathi wrote:
Pretty much this. Skill levels these days are a lot higher than they were when the game launched. I'm currently silver with my zerg with average apm of 90-100. I hotkey stuff, expand, scout and make unit combos yet I still lose a lot. Beta/release was much easier in terms of player skill level. OK? My Zerg is Diamond (I Random now) with APM topping out in the mid-90s, on a very good day. Most games I'm around 75. You might just not know how to win games consistently yet. People focus on all the wrong things!
I tried Terran for fun, won 2, lost 3 games straight after that and won the next one and I got promoted to gold.
Weird.
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There's nothing wrong with being in bronze. Enjoying the game is what matters. If anything, being in a lower league is nice because people can pull off many more entertaining and original strategies. If people don't care about being "good", then bronze is fine.
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The only problem with Bronze league, at least on North American ladders, is that 90% of players are going to cheese you in some way. That, or at least make some decent timing attack that's refined enough to win games in the first 10 minutes. So unless you're the one doing the Cannon rushes, 6 pools, or timing attacks, I can't really see how being in Bronze should be enjoyable for the standard player.
This makes experimenting with higher techs or different strategies almost impossible. So you watched a White-Ra game recently where he does some sick Warp Prism micro and kills a thousand workers with some Zealots? Now you wanna try that build in your Bronze league? Who gives a damn. You're going to die from an all-in Zergling attack before your first Cybercore barely finishes. GG.
There aren't enough legitemate Bronze players out there to make the league even close to interesting or respected. It's all about who can win enough games with cheese so they can advance to Silver or Gold and play some real games. An endless self-promoted cycle of cheesers.
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On March 08 2012 19:10 BlackGosu wrote:
people will just be bullies on the internet.
however i want to know, if you have that many games under your belt, you shouldn't really be in bronze league. just copy a standard build order and you will progress well. watch the money and supply and scout.
As far as wins go, I have the void ray avatar.. so a good number of games.
I spent about a year just practicing with the intent of progressing before I decided to be content with it.
On reddit I mentioned that I had some higher level players mentor me a bit and check out my builds and reactions and such and they say I'm doing ok with it (briefly).
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On March 09 2012 02:46 Wrathi wrote:
I tried Terran for fun, won 2, lost 3 games straight after that and won the next one and I got promoted to gold.
Weird.
Sounds like you just needed your MMR to stabilize. Congrats and good luck.
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On March 09 2012 01:16 ThaZenith wrote:
I can't understand people who watch pros yet remain in bronze, without throwing games/trying to be horrible.
All you need is one build that expands, and be able to keep making workers. Bam, ur gold or higher. It's literally that easy.
I can however understand forever-bronzies who don't follow a professional scene. It can be a lot harder to understand how to be good if you have no reference points.
This guy knows what he's talking about.
Literally finding a build order, making workers and unit-producing facilities is all you need to practice till platinum/diamond.
Instead there's a taught helplessness called "I'm too slow" and "I'm too bad" so i guess i'm just not good at RTS games.
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As a masters player with quite a few friends that started in bronze I truly don't think it is possible to stay in bronze with 1/2 of the things you mentioned.
A simple use of hotkeys will get you out of bronze. You don't need micro to get out of bronze, you don't need consistent probe production to get out of bronze, you just need to be able to make workers, not always be supply blocked and make some sort of army (marines will do fine).
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Some of the people who get stuck in a really low league probably have ADD that keeps them from focusing on what they're supposed to be doing. If you can't focus properly it's a huge handicap
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On March 08 2012 18:45 Vallz wrote:
Step 1 : Find a tactic to carry yourself out of bronze. Preferably some tactic that requires good timing because timing always helps!
Step 2 : Reach gold / platinum level
Step 3 : Now you have realised it doesn't work 80% time anymore, start to learn play properly.
Step 4 : ???????????
Step 5 : Profit
That's basically how I reached Masters from Bronze :D
Well, I can understand people who just play for fun and don't do one boring tactic just to carry them to higher leagues.
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I don't think many people here are actually listening to what this guy's saying. He's bronze, and he doesn't mind being bronze. He likes the games he plays. He's looking for other people like him. I don't know why that illicits 5 pages of mechanical, strategy, and mentality advice. He's already said he's not looking for that.
I am not bronze, but you might check out the "practice partners" thread and see if anyone on there is in a similar spot (they're organized by league, so you can see who's bronze, and find out if they're in a similar situation).
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EPT
