EPTOn March 29 2012 17:33 Steglich wrote:
How are bronze players "definitely great players"?
How are bronze players "definitely great players"?
They have love for the game and keep playing even while being shat on by many. How is that not great?
Bronze level players - Page 38
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freakhill
Japan463 Posts
They have love for the game and keep playing even while being shat on by many. How is that not great? | ||
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olmaster
Netherlands11 Posts
 . After this my focus on winning has increased, cause I know I am better then bronze...so after 2 weeks I got back in silver. If you don't play every day, your focus decreases and you will loose e few games, this will eventually decrease your average win/lose ratio. But I can deal with this, I just love to play the game, good or bad game, I will learn. My Macro is really good. I've found out in higher leagues they cheese more, people cannonrush or worker all-in all the time, glad I got out of there. I've spent time playing golds and diamonds with a solid teammate, and I've noticed that I cannot keep up because I just can't type that fast, but I am able to counter or attack with a minimum loss and win some games just by using freaky tactics and macro well. But all of this stuff keeps me in higher bronze/silver. I've had some training from a Diamond player for a while, where I had the better tactics but he was much faster using hotkeys, so after a while he said I was to slow and had to work on my hotkeys. I play Random so I had to manage this for all races. I have ordered a new keyboard and mouse, my teammate told me to do so cause this can help to improve your epm and hotkeying. So I hope this will help. My skills are improving. I keep winning with the same tactics and BO's so I'm focussing improving these. I replay my games a lot lately and check my timings and write them down. If I look at this during a game I don't have to deal with the timing feeling of my opponent...he should have a ton of marines ...let's buids some colossi quick...etc.ect I just know what and how many he has at a certain point. These timing help me a lot in making decisions when to attack and a when to macro or where to send my scouts /obs. Lots of bronzies are like this...but we have nice games and a lots of fun (use ventrillo or skype). In the higher leagues there is this word "n00b" which everyone seems to use as an excuse if you haven't scouted well or have to deal with early aggresion on your side of the map. Your even been called noob if you win...hehe. | ||
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Gheed
United States972 Posts
On March 29 2012 18:35 olmaster wrote:I got demoted out of silver teamgames due to loosing to many games with sloppy teammates. This is a fallacy. Let's say you're playing 3v3 and are a good player. This means your team only has 2 chances to get bad players on it because you will always be taking up a spot. The enemy team, however, has 3 chances for bad players. If you were really a good player, you would, over time, win more than you would lose and rise to your appropriate MMR whereupon you would level out at a 50% W/L rate, assuming you improve at a rate equal to your opponents. | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On March 29 2012 18:35 olmaster wrote: (...)But all of this stuff keeps me in higher bronze/silver. I've had some training from a Diamond player for a while, where I had the better tactics but he was much faster using hotkeys, so after a while he said I was to slow and had to work on my hotkeys. I play Random so I had to manage this for all races. I have ordered a new keyboard and mouse, my teammate told me to do so cause this can help to improve your epm and hotkeying. So I hope this will help. (...) A new mouse and keyboard don't make you a better player (unless you were using a notebook keyboard and a touchpad or trackball before). I know, pros use mechanical keyboards and stuff and for them it really makes a difference but for everyone below masters, it won't change anything at all. Just use what you are comfortable with. A good way to force yourself to use hotkeys is to just hide the controls in the bottom right, either by placing an item before it or putting one of those yellow papers on it. That way you prevent the habit of clicking those buttons instead of pressing the correct key. Of course it can cause problems if you need to research something and don't remember the hotkey... but that will make you remember the hotkey better for next time Other than that, keep having fun | ||
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Adamgm
Canada68 Posts
On March 28 2012 20:31 Morfildur wrote: Apart from obvious portrait farmers, Bronze league consists of 2 types of players and the difference is like Grandmaster and Gold. On one hand, there is low Bronze, the guys who build 5 cannons at their ramp or a PF in their main base because they mostly play to not die. They never attack until they have a 200/200 army with maximum upgrades. This is how most Diamond/Masters/GM people imagine all the leagues below diamond. On the other hand, there are the mid- to high bronze players who have an idea on what to do, they might even have some rough build orders, game plans, etc., but they are held back by either severe lack of practice, very slow hands, lack of skill or other factors. It's no shame to be in that position. I've seen some pretty good bronze players when i started a new account and left all placement matches. Sure, even with my current low at platinum i could probably beat them 10 out of 10 times due to mechanics, but they have a basic, solid understanding of the game and of what you are supposed to do and eventhough they need twice as long due to the above mentioned problems, they get there eventually. As long as they have fun, why not? Improving is great but having fun is even better. This isn't true in my experience. My games are always filled with lots of early and mid-game aggression. As I have mentioned in earlier posts, I play for several hours a day on average. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9362 Posts
On March 29 2012 19:07 Adamgm wrote: This isn't true in my experience. My games are always filled with lots of early and mid-game aggression. As I have mentioned in earlier posts, I play for several hours a day on average. Not sure if you read what he actually wrote? | ||
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Adamgm
Canada68 Posts
Him: On one hand, there is low Bronze, the guys who build 5 cannons at their ramp or a PF in their main base because they mostly play to not die. They never attack until they have a 200/200 army with maximum upgrades. Me: My games are always filled with lots of early and mid-game aggression. Him: On the other hand, there are the mid- to high bronze players who have an idea on what to do, they might even have some rough build orders, game plans, etc., but they are held back by either severe lack of practice, very slow hands, lack of skill or other factors. Me: As I have mentioned in earlier posts, I play for several hours a day on average. What's the issue? | ||
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Adamgm
Canada68 Posts
On March 29 2012 17:48 freakhill wrote: They have love for the game and keep playing even while being shat on by many. How is that not great? *high-fives* | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On March 29 2012 20:28 Adamgm wrote: Him: On one hand, there is low Bronze, the guys who build 5 cannons at their ramp or a PF in their main base because they mostly play to not die. They never attack until they have a 200/200 army with maximum upgrades. Me: My games are always filled with lots of early and mid-game aggression. Him: On the other hand, there are the mid- to high bronze players who have an idea on what to do, they might even have some rough build orders, game plans, etc., but they are held back by either severe lack of practice, very slow hands, lack of skill or other factors. Me: As I have mentioned in earlier posts, I play for several hours a day on average. What's the issue? Then you build 5 cannons at the ramp or a PF in your main base but still do early aggression? That wouldn't make sense since that is mathmatically impossible. And if you practice several hours a day, i still wrote "either lack of practice, very slow hands, lack of skill or other factors. | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On March 29 2012 20:28 Adamgm wrote: Him: On one hand, there is low Bronze, the guys who build 5 cannons at their ramp or a PF in their main base because they mostly play to not die. They never attack until they have a 200/200 army with maximum upgrades. Me: My games are always filled with lots of early and mid-game aggression. Him: On the other hand, there are the mid- to high bronze players who have an idea on what to do, they might even have some rough build orders, game plans, etc., but they are held back by either severe lack of practice, very slow hands, lack of skill or other factors. Me: As I have mentioned in earlier posts, I play for several hours a day on average. What's the issue? The issue is that you say he's wrong from your experience, when he isn't. You say that your games have a lot of early-mid game aggression, so you're in his second group, probably. You playing several hours a day on average doesn't somehow make his next statement untrue, if you play several hours a day and are still in bronze, you're quite clearly "held back by either severe lack of practice, very slow hands, lack of skill or other factors". | ||
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Adamgm
Canada68 Posts
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Sajiki
Germany522 Posts
On March 29 2012 00:07 tronix wrote:+ Show Spoiler + plat terran here imo improving at bronze level is about choosing a single thing to improve and that is it. don't abstract play into terms like macro and micro; just choose something simple in concept like mouse control, using hotkeys to build everything, exclusively watching the minimap, etc. also i see a lot of people say that they watch alot of tournies, read builds, watch day9 and so on; yet they still can't get out of bronze. i think this can create a misconception about the game. when you are bronze you don't want to play like a pro; you want to play like a silver player and that is it. personally sc2 is not my first rts, but the first ive played for any extended amount of time. i played the campaign first and my placement matches got me into silver; therefore ive never in bronze. not to say im better, but i knew what to improve. i played random and focused on hotkeys first. just learning the hotkeys for buildings and units. i played almost exclusively freestyle. my scouting consisted of only determining the position of the other player and to see if they were making cloaked units. im plat now, and to be completely honest im still horrible at scouting, and gleaming the correct information. i'm also stuck with the above syndrome with wanting to play like a pro, so i'm insanely stubborn and try to play super economic and get punished by cheese and all-ins. the redundancy of bad play will never make you better. ive played plenty of games "competitively" and it is really surprising to see players who have played a certain game far longer than i and still on a lower level. pub-stars in counter strike, habitual clickers in WoW, etc. that is a very good comment that sums up perfectly what improving is all about. ive got my gf into the game, she is obviously bronze and has no rts (or even competitive video-game) experience AT ALL. i watch her a lot when she plays and discuss her replays with her after so i have seen a lot of bronze level players recently. oftenly bronze players are very kind, tend to chat a lot and the atmosphere in games is actually pretty cool. but a lot of them focus on game aspects that are like total nonsense on their level of play (like "oh no i could have taken my gas geysirs earlier and my upgrades are worse." when they actually just lost because 90% of their army was running in circles behind their supply depots and they didnt notice.) On March 28 2012 23:49 lazyitachi wrote: GOOD LORD.......... Make workers.. make units... 0 scout... still win bronzies.... Mass hellion, mass viking, mass hydra, mass queen, mass ling Conclusion.. macro better pls.. ur out of bronze that on the other hand is a very bad comment (although it is actually true). guess you totally got the game figured out dont you. you presumably seem like the right person to offer bronze coaching hours. :o | ||
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MrTortoise
1388 Posts
On March 29 2012 05:04 IPA wrote: Arrested development does not lead to any meaningful sense of satisfaction though. I see what you're saying but any competitor worth her salt isn't going to be satisfied with bronze league. Strongly disagree ... ANY competitor should be unhappy with any league .... your just being a git. Also you are implying that people with arrested development cant get satisfaction from things ... 'I don't like the taste of this apple because it cant be used to cut wood' makes about as much sense as what you just said - figure it out because i cant explain it without insulting you. Its also about play style. RTS games used to be played VERY differently. Then the tank rush appeared and the game totally changed. Yeah you can macro your ass off and just win by having more shit ... but that isn't necessarily the most fun way to play. Maybe bronzies are better because they knowingly handicap themselves, dont give a shit and still try to win? Maybe that is far more meaningful than mechanically executing the same build you have done hundreds of times before? | ||
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Monkeyballs25
531 Posts
Playstyle doesn't come into it in this case, since the OP is talking about people who initially do take the game seriously and try to improve, but can't make any progress beyond bronze league. Which is probably very rare, but certainly possible. You're talking about people who just don't care to get promoted in the first place. | ||
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onzfeat
Mongolia12 Posts
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Umpteen
United Kingdom1570 Posts
On March 29 2012 20:57 MrTortoise wrote: RTS games used to be played VERY differently. Then the tank rush appeared and the game totally changed. Yeah you can macro your ass off and just win by having more shit ... but that isn't necessarily the most fun way to play. Maybe bronzies are better because they knowingly handicap themselves, dont give a shit and still try to win? Maybe that is far more meaningful than mechanically executing the same build you have done hundreds of times before? This article answers you pretty comprehensively: http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html My take on it is that no matter what you're doing, goofing around is a form of masturbation: it's fun but at the end of the day you aren't getting the most out of what you have to play with. Now, not every pursuit in life needs to be taken seriously. There's always room for a bit of tossing off. But if that's what you choose to do, don't sneer at the people settling down and having kids, or call what you're doing 'more meaningful'. | ||
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TheV
Brazil107 Posts
On March 29 2012 07:59 willoc wrote: Heh. Here's a little case you guys can use for case studies. I have a friend whose been playing SC2 since it got released. We watch GSL together. He is perma gold league. Why? Here are the reasons: - He plays while lying on his bed with the keyboard on his belly. - He has no mouse pad (his bed covers work just fine according to him). - His monitor is a rather big TV that sits across the entire room from the bed he plays on. - About 1/3 of the games he plays start off with him lighting up a joint. While he takes a drag, he stops playing with one hand. - If something distracts him in the house, he won't pause but instead just afks that shit! Now: His understanding of the game is rather good but because of his habits, he won't progress past Gold league. He is better than all the players in that league but will not because of all the above self-imposed handicaps. I'm sure you guys haven't thought of this type of player in the leagues but I'm sure there are a lot. These are the types of players who purely play for fun, not advancement. Hahaha your friend seems hilarious. | ||
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Adamgm
Canada68 Posts
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Ellachandra
Canada23 Posts
On March 29 2012 21:45 onzfeat wrote: just purchased sc2, placement match + 3 game, gold rank 27. watching tournaments helps me lot I wonder how many higher level Bronze players would place siliver or gold if they started with fresh accounts? | ||
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Dranak
United States464 Posts
On March 29 2012 01:51 Zythius wrote: A couple dozen is 24 games.. I do not believe you advance from bronze to silver to gold if you play that much every season. You would just have to win every single game because you are a good player which happened to be placed in bronze by accident. So I just checked, I have 105 league wins on my account. So it's probably a safe assumption that I have around 200 ladder games played since launch. In that span I've gone bronze to gold as terran, switched to zerg, dropped to silver, then gotten back into gold. I may well be an outlier, but rapid movement out of lower leagues is definitely possible. | ||
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