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Why is the Nydus Worm underused? - Page 17

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Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-02 02:20:18
March 02 2012 02:12 GMT
#321
On March 02 2012 11:02 catid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2012 10:29 Logo wrote:
On March 02 2012 10:22 catid wrote:
On March 02 2012 09:58 Logo wrote:
Prepare to be scienced bitches... (ok that might be a bit dramatic).

Replay analysis of how a pro could have won a high profile game safely with Nydus Worm:
If you've watched Winter Assembly or don't care about spoilers I really appreciate you reading this, it's a detailed description of how Nydus could have changed a game.
+ Show Spoiler [Winter Assembly Spoilers] +

I'll be looking at Game #4 of the Winter Assembly Finals
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/portals.php?show=news&news_id=869070

Skip ahead to 10:30 and lets look at Stephano's situation.
-Spire just finished
-He's making 7 mutalisks
-He has 1k/160 in the bank and he invests 100 of that into air upgrade 1 + floats gas + starts melee upgrade 1 later. It's entirely reasonable to say at this point Stephano should have 150/200 spare at this point by not floating minerals (a mistake he made) and his ability to defend would be unchanged (as he spends gas on a 2nd upgrade before the next muta he makes is completed, so in total he spent 250 gas on stuff that doesn't help until much much later).

Thus at this point, 10:30 exactly. Stephano could make a Nydus Worm with absolutely no risk of anything different happening over the next 50s compared to what he chose to do (air attack +1). Much later his air attack would be delayed, but I'm going to show how much he could have gained via Nydus play.

Now lets go ahead to 11:10. Where we have this:
[image loading]

Why is this important, lets look at our situation.
  • Nydus canal would be done instantly at this moment if build when air attack was researched..
  • Polt has a 3rd that's open, but defended.
  • Stephano has just moved mutalisks in and the base is relatively undefended
  • Polt's army is far away from the base. How far?
    • There's 6s before Polt moves any marines
    • The closest marines are moved back at 11:36 and arrive at the mineral line at 11:50 that's 14 seconds.
    • The area centered on the picture is about 4 seconds further away than that.

    That's a total (not counting reaction time) of 18seconds.


That means Polt would have 2 seconds to react to even have a non-0% chance to get to worm before it emerged, which is a far cry from the 6s it took him to react and it assumes he runs right for the worm rather than to protect his SCVs (which Stephano can follow with mutas if Polt moves by rather than a-moves).

His 13 marines available dealing 10.5dps would take 2 seconds to kill the worm which is enough time for 4 banelings to emerge. Yet this assumes he stims his marines a 2nd time giving them only 25hp to survive the mutalisks that could be there. Otherwise he has 4s to get units out free of charge.
Of course this ignores any marines that die from the 7 mutalisks that can attack them (each muta volley would just kill one marine outright I believe if he doesn't re-stim).

Likewise he also has to choose between protecting the SCVs, or attacking the worm unless he pulls the SCVs TO the worm which he could do, but that puts them right in the line of fire for the mutas and since we know the worm is almost sure to survive it's a big risk.
Now SCV's do 2.67dps to the worm so their dps isn't that significant and if they're pulled immediately to the worm there are 7 mutas there getting to take free shots on them for 14s (when the marines arrive). Even if the worm was killed in this way the SCV loss is a huge hit to Polt well worth the worm's cost (and canal, but Stephano gets to keep that regardless).
We know pulling the SCVs to hit the worm is a huge risk as Stephano because Stephano has banelings. If they are first out of the worm they will detonate and annhilate large scv #s, something that would be a huge blow to Polt.

Additional army is, at this point, 15-20s away and there's only a minimal force on the 3rd that Stephano can scout/spot. Unless you sac the SCVs, this worm is completing. Even that nearby tank is about 12s away + 4s unsiege and if it moves before the marines arrive it's vulnerable to the mutas (plus the tank costs more than the worm).
If Stephano put his canal at his nat (towards the ramp down) lings could be 5s away from both the nydus AND Polt's 3rd by standing near the Xel'Naga, which means that up until 5s left on the worm Stephano can threaten the 3rd if additional forces are pulled back
to prepare for the worm finishing. Since those marines are about 25s-30s away from the nydus worm, that gives Stephano a huge timing advantage. Polt has to pull them RIGHT AWAY if he wants to defend a full on nydus in his base, but Stephano can wait 15s to decide if he wants to hit the 3rd or hit the main.

The tanks are there, but keep in mind that all Stephano needs to do to win is kill the marines really (Polt would be defenseless vs the mutalisks). None of them can get there in time to kill the worm before units emerge either with 4s to unsiege and their slow movespeed.

Stephano has enough units at this point to kill Polt so long as polt can't make use of a defensive position (sieged up siege tanks). Since we're forcing Polt to pull back to the main if we hit there, his tanks won't be sieged for most of the battle.

What if Polt's units were better positioned? Well what would that look like. Would it be any better to Stephano's option of pulling his muta's back and hitting else where sans worm? I fail to see some magic configuration that Polt should have known to do that would be well equipped to handle this attack + the threat of a full frontal attack. Not to mention if Stephano was planning on this type of strategy he could easily scout the unit positioning with a ling poke ahead of time. By seeing the # of marines gathered near the 3rd + the fact that Polt has a 3rd, he would know the main is relatively undefended.

Now you might also say, "It's a risk! What about late game" Well we know Stephano likes Ultras late game in many situations. Shakuras may not be the best map for late game nydus play, but we do know it's something that can be effective . So maybe he is delaying air attack or skipping it, but so long as he protects that canal he's setup late game to make better use of Ultras. So he can deal tons of damage now or if it doesn't pan out is setup to do well later with a nydus up.

So lets recap:
  • Stephano could have made a Nydus Canal at no-risk to his immediate safety.
  • Stephano could have made a worm right as he harasses with mutalisks with 0 risk to the mutas.
  • Polt would have have almost 0 chance to kill the worm before at least 2-4 units emerge and have time to attack. With his actual reaction time it would be at least 12 units out of the worm before he even starts attacking it.
  • Stephano had banelings that could almost instantly remove all threats on the worm, or at least force them to stop attacking the worm (never mind the mutas themselves)
  • Without sieged siege tanks Stephano's army is superior.
  • Polt's additional reinforcements aren't in range of the worm until 5-10s after it completes
  • If Polt pulls back all units his 3rd is completely open (as is his natural). Yet Stephano doesn't need to commit to hitting the main vs 3rd until 5s before the worm finishes (10s after Polt has to pull back).


Conclusion/TL;DR
Thus I contend that I've shown a real world example with PRO players where a Nydus Worm would have offered a UNIQUE chance to win or gain an advantage that no other thing in the Zerg army could have done. This is the finals game of a big tournament that could have been won with a Nydus.

I don't think this is a unique situation either and I'd love to go through other games if people want me to. This isn't some convuluted situation either. Any time a T builds in this manner with a more reactionary muta defense, they're open to this type of timing attack, it's not something that happens every game (map matters a lot as other factors). Nor does it require much setup, the only demand is you delay air attack and instead make the canal.


I also saw this coming from awhile away as I watched the game. I was practically yelling (aka typing to a friend in chat) about how this game could have been wrapped up by the safe construction of a Nydus Canal. And for what it's worth I play Zerg.


It's easy to say these kind of things with hindsight. When you're playing a Muta/Baneling/Zergling style you're relying on a small stockpile of gas to immediately morph Banelings to deal with an attack.. if you build the nydus+worm you're really gas-starved and make yourself extremely vulnerable to an attack. Stephano also has no idea how many Marines Polt has or where they are.. and that number will vary depending on Polt's build. If he did have a group of marines in his main (and most Terrans will) the nydus is completely useless. Even if it finishes it's spitting out Zerglings/Banelings one by one which are just going to get cleaned up by a small group of Marines anyways.

Hell I don't even see how having a nydus in Polt's base would be of any use when he has his army relatively close to his mainn.


There's no hindsight needed. You didn't even read my post in a way to comprehend it as I address ALL your issues. Maybe rather than jumping to conclusions and making big assumptions you should slow down and read with an open mind.


+ Show Spoiler +
Stephano saw the 3rd before investing in the air upgrade. He spend money on the attack upgrades which are a longer vulnerability than the worm. The 3rd tells you something about the marine count. He had a delayed 3rd so his eye was on aggression anyways. The marines WEREN'T THERE AND COULDN'T HAVE BEEN THERE. 13 marines under attack by 7 mutas and an additional ling/bling every .5s are marines that aren't going to live long.

Polts army was only stronger because of sieged siege tanks and superior positioning. Look at how Stephano nearly overruns the 3rd immediately after the muta harass. And if Polt concentrates all his units in one position in his base the entire rest of his base is open to muta harass or ling attacks.


Even if it is 'hindsight' uh... so fucking what. That's the point of replay analysis. You look at things in hindsight, then learn lessons and apply them forward. The popular opinion is that Nydus Worms are useless, I showed a great example of them having a unique use, thus they aren't useless and can win games, even pro ones.

Your post is also full of spoilers.


TL removed its no spoilers policy.

Go open up the replay and look at the game again, Polt has 4 (almost 5) tanks and 6 barracks (4 reactored..) about to churn out marines. He's just going to reposition some Tanks, bring some Marines back and clean up the attack no problem with a ton of reinforcements. There's no discussion to this.

Your point about drawing the army away so you can attack somewhere else is completely unrelated.. the mutalisks already did this.


Ah that's right I forgot it applies to the SC2 General Forum as well.

The tanks are out of position (I addressed that), they would be there in the same time as the 2nd set of marines and THEN would need to siege up so by time they siege the fight could already be over. About to churn out marines is a big difference from having marines, I'm not sure how you expect them to change the fight when they would come out 15-25s after the worm finishes (other than the 3 in production from the 1st 2 raxes).

The mutas draw 13 marines away, a Nydus has to draw an entire army (because an entire army may come out of that worm). In that game especially even drawing 1 extra siege tank (the one on high ground guarding the 3rd) would have meant the 3rd CC would have fallen (it barely lived with that siege tank there as is) which pays for the Nydus worm + canal and is a huge game changer.

The 'hindsight' thing is referring to the fact that using the Nydus in these situations is just hoping he isn't prepraed. E.g. putting a Nydus down in ZvP in Protoss' main is just hoping he doesn't watch the minimap enough. It's not really reliable.


This is different than dropping it naked in a main. What mistake did Polt make that left him vulnerable to this kind of harass? With putting one naked in a main you are hoping its not spotted (as in your opponent makes a mistake). With this style of Nydus use, it doesn't make a difference. You place it where he 100% sees it and you don't care at all because he can't do anything about it. That's like the biggest part of my post and why I did a specific and detailed analysis. USED CORRECTLY you aren't relying on an enemy mistake to make a Nydus work. Sure if Polt responds perfectly the Nydus might not win outright, but it's almost certainly creating an advantaged situation for Stephano or one that gives him at least one cost effective fight. If nothing else the simple fact that the worm has to be targeted over the mutas can be enough to pay for the Worm and some of the network.

On the other side as Stephano you can see this situation because the 3rd was there and you know Polt made a factory (the hellions). If Stephano didn't have this information then I agree, you make the +1 air attack or just an extra mutalisk. Yet that's not the situation and the fact that Stephano saw all this is WHY I chose this game.
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willoc
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada1530 Posts
March 02 2012 02:13 GMT
#322
Funny. I just saw a nydus worm used in the GSL today.
Be bold and mighty forces will come to your aid!
radscorpion9
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada2252 Posts
March 02 2012 02:14 GMT
#323
They're ridiculously easy to fend off. Since they take so long to set up and can be killed by 5 harvesters, all you need is good perimeter awareness and the whole idea of using a nydus to surprise attack your opponent fails miserably.

That only leaves zerg with using it to reinforce bases or shorten attack lines. The problem is, units come out one at a time which makes it terrible for either. However I think players might want to experiment with building multiple nyduses...its not all that expensive considering the amount of resources players will accumulate during the late game. Maybe an endless stream of rallied units could work wonders for zerg, as their equivalent to the protoss proxy pylon. Wonder what pro gamers think of it.
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
March 02 2012 02:16 GMT
#324
Zenio used this last night against SC to beat him on Entombed Valley I believe, used the nydus worm to make him pull a bunch of units back into his main while a bunch of lings in the main destroyed some production, then ran in with a ling/ultra/infestor/baneling army and took out a bunch of SC's units and SC's fourth.

Yeah, it wasn't a cheese or early game. Everyone loves to theorycraft this stuff to death, but people need to try it more: it works when done well. Leenock used it to beat MVP if people recall.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-02 02:18:31
March 02 2012 02:17 GMT
#325
On March 02 2012 11:16 Whitewing wrote:
Zenio used this last night against SC to beat him on Entombed Valley I believe, used the nydus worm to make him pull a bunch of units back into his main while a bunch of lings in the main destroyed some production, then ran in with a ling/ultra/infestor/baneling army and took out a bunch of SC's units and SC's fourth.

Yeah, it wasn't a cheese or early game. Everyone loves to theorycraft this stuff to death, but people need to try it more: it works when done well. Leenock used it to beat MVP if people recall.


Ooh awesome, that's exactly the use I've been trying to talk about unless it was just a 'hidden' nydus. Hopefully people draw inspiration from that.
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PresenceSc2
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia4032 Posts
March 02 2012 02:19 GMT
#326
On March 02 2012 09:13 GP wrote:
It boggles my mind that I don't see Zergs who are banking a thousand+ resources put up a Nydus at each of their furthest expansions in the late game. What's a bigger loss when an expansion gets dropped/attacked, the Nydus and the Hatchery, or the Hatchery and all of the drones? I'm not a professional player of coarse, but it seems like common sense to me.


I have seen (Z)MorroW do this on Tal' Darim Alter in a zvt. He has spines around the expo + a nydus. Pretty solid defense imo and would be really frustrating for a Terran to play against.
Stephano//HerO//TaeJa//Squirtle//Bomber
TBone-
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2309 Posts
March 02 2012 02:28 GMT
#327
Because zergs are convinced they shouldn't push until they get broodlords.
Eve online FC, lover of all competition
Zeon0
Profile Joined September 2010
Austria2995 Posts
March 02 2012 02:39 GMT
#328
it would be nice, if they could be used for army movement, but loading/unloading takes ages. i wouldnt care if the nydus builds slower, has more hp and loading/unloading was faster.
Hater of MKP since GSL Open Season 2 | Fanboy of: NesTea Stephano IdrA DIMAGA MorroW ret DongRaeGu Snute SaSe Mvp ThorZaIN DeMusliM
RibsNGibs
Profile Joined January 2011
64 Posts
March 02 2012 04:56 GMT
#329
Ok, I'm a terrible player, but I sometimes use them when I'm forced to make hydras for whatever reason (lots of stargate; even sky terran).

When I end up with a lot of roaches or hydras, I quite like to use them in two ways:

1) just like a forward pylon - I'll set all my hatches to rally into the nydus, but I'll rally morphing zergling eggs directly to the front lines so I don't send the fast lings into the (slow to unload) nydus. The slow stuff (roaches, hydras) just dump into the nydus and you can pop them out near the front lines. If you need to pull back to defend some pressure back at home while your main army is out fighting the front you can just pop back into the nydus. What's also nice to do is to pop out a queen at the forward nydus and drop a creep tumor, so you get some "permanent" vision and a little advance spot to start growing creep from.

2) I like using it to retreat from areas where you might get sandwiched - say you've gone around the long way to attack your opponents 3rd base (where the rocks are) on Taldarim - sometimes I get worried that I'll get sandwiched in there after I snipe a nexus - I'll just open up a nydus and hop in when I'm done. Yeah, it costs 100/100 but it's cheaper than losing even 2 hydras or 4 roaches. Another common spot is on the 3rd of Antiga - the retreat path is so easy for the opponent to close off; sometimes it's way safer to just drop a nydus after you break up the rocks and run into it when you need to run away. Loading speed seems way, faster than unloading, too - you can get a whole roach/hydra army in there in not too much time.


Using it as a quick backdoor to your enemy's main seems to never, ever work.
Xapti
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2473 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-02 06:01:41
March 02 2012 05:29 GMT
#330
The problems with the nydus network are numerous:
• Nydus network is expensive.
• Worm is a bit expensive
• Worm can die to workers (or even less attacking units) quite easily before it even finishes
• Rate of loading and unloading is a bit slow for some units

To fix nydus worm/network, they should:
• Decrease cost of nydus network to 150/150 (from 150/200)
• Decrease cost of nydus worm to 100/50 or 100/75 (from 100/100)
• Increase the armor of nydus worm to 2 (up from 1)
• Increase the health of nydus worm to 250 (up from 200)
• Adjust the rate of units entering the nydus based off the supply (or transport) size of the unit. It's simply imbalanced that 10 ultralisks can pop out of a nydus worm faster than 12 zerglings. Zerglings should come out a bit faster, and ultralisks should come out a bit slower (every other unit is 2 transport spaces and could remain at the same times).

On March 02 2012 09:13 GP wrote:
It boggles my mind that I don't see Zergs who are banking a thousand+ resources put up a Nydus at each of their furthest expansions in the late game. What's a bigger loss when an expansion gets dropped/attacked, the Nydus and the Hatchery, or the Hatchery and all of the drones? I'm not a professional player of coarse, but it seems like common sense to me.

Mostly I'd say it's because the time to unload and load is so large that you couldn't transport units in time to save it if the opponent's already attacking. You need to wait for both enough units to load up AND enough units to unload BEFORE you can engage the opponent, otherwise you'll just use the force your attempting to defend with.

The one scenario where I think it could be useful is with keeping a worm at each expansion, along with 2 spines or something, and then have 3-4 infestors in the network. This would mostly be a defense against terran drop/harass tactics.

If you're just talking about moving drones into the nydus to save the drones, that's not too useful. While it might have SOME use, there are better alternatives.
The reason it's not that useful is that much of the time you can just run the drones away. If you're in a scenario where you can't run the drones away, you wouldn't be able to run them to a nydus either.
Aside from that, the alternative of using overlords with ventral sacs or burrow is cheaper than nydus worms. Overlords are much better than nydus worms since they load units up instantly, while still having the same amount of HP.

On March 01 2012 18:50 BoxingKangaroo wrote:
I feel one of two changes need to take place:

1. Be able to make multiple nydus heads from one main building. This may be way to OP though.

2. A nydus head starts at low health, but it's health gradually increases once it pops up to some maximum limit. This way they're still easy to kill for a player on the lookout, but can they can be used better defensively since you can place them at your expos long before the enemy arrives and the nydus has a chance to get up to its maximum health limit. They're harder to snipe in other words. I think this would also introduce an interesting gameplay element where the enemy is time constrained on killing the nydus, lest it become harder and harder to kill.

I suppose you men multiple worms simultaneously since they can already make multiple worms. That's a pretty good idea, I remember wanting that as well (just forgot for my post).

About worms' health, that's actually an interesting point you raise, since that's the only structure in the game that instantly constructs with max health (aside from the auto-turret). I'd say the change wouldn't be necessary though, considering they're already VERY easy to kill when you're prepared. A handful of workers is all it takes to kill a worm, even if the worm is already 50% complete.
"Then he told me to tell you that he wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire" — "Well, you tell him that I said that I wouldn't piss on him if he was on Jeopardy!"
how
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States538 Posts
March 02 2012 05:38 GMT
#331
On March 02 2012 14:29 Xapti wrote:
The problems with the nydus network are numerous:
• Nydus network is expensive.
• Worm is a bit expensive
• Worm can die to workers (or even less attacking units) quite easily before it even finishes
• Rate of loading and unloading is a bit slow for some units

To fix nydus worm/network, they should:
• Decrease cost of nydus network to 150/150
• Decrease cost of nydus worm to 100/50 or 100/75
• Increase the armor of nydus worm to 2
• Increase the health of nydus worm to 250
• Adjust the rate of units entering the nydus based off the supply (or transport) size of the unit. It's simply imbalanced that 10 ultralisks can pop out of a nydus worm faster than 12 zerglings


I think the health fix might be a bit much, and the last buff is bit unclear. I understand the general idea of what you are getting at, but they could just say, ok, your right, now one ultra takes 4x as long to unload.

Overall though, if even 1/2 those changes went into place, I would use them a lot more.
http://twitter.com/howsc
Kira__
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden2672 Posts
March 02 2012 05:39 GMT
#332
if my broodlords could walk thro them, id use it all day
The truth is, Yagami-kun, I suspect that you may in fact be Kira.
BinxyBrown
Profile Joined December 2010
United States230 Posts
March 02 2012 05:59 GMT
#333
I would like to see the original worms gas cost reduced enough to where I could at least build nydus worms at my own bases to save workers.
Banelings are like Ice Climbers if they grab you... your dead.
RmoteCntrld
Profile Joined June 2010
United States596 Posts
March 02 2012 06:11 GMT
#334
Why would you use Nydus worms to get places quicker when creeps is in the game and servers far more of a purpose than a Nydus that just hit me.
Exigaet
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada355 Posts
March 02 2012 06:30 GMT
#335
On March 02 2012 11:14 radscorpion9 wrote:
They're ridiculously easy to fend off. Since they take so long to set up and can be killed by 5 harvesters, all you need is good perimeter awareness and the whole idea of using a nydus to surprise attack your opponent fails miserably.

That only leaves zerg with using it to reinforce bases or shorten attack lines. The problem is, units come out one at a time which makes it terrible for either. However I think players might want to experiment with building multiple nyduses...its not all that expensive considering the amount of resources players will accumulate during the late game. Maybe an endless stream of rallied units could work wonders for zerg, as their equivalent to the protoss proxy pylon. Wonder what pro gamers think of it.


Multiple Nydus Worms late game is absolutely horrible. I'd much, much rather spend that gas on more infestors or broodlords instead of the chance that the nydus worms actually make it up. If they could be cancelled for 75% of the resources back, it might be different, however.
TheDraken
Profile Joined July 2011
United States640 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-02 06:52:06
March 02 2012 06:47 GMT
#336
On March 02 2012 06:49 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2012 06:39 TheDraken wrote:
if terrans get to salvage their bunkers, i should get to salvage my frikin nyduses. it's just not worth the 100 gas if it's almost always going to get killed.

give zergs the option to retract it back into the ground after it completes. 75% money back.

Yah, I should be able to salvage my Nexus or any other tech structure that I don't have any use for and that might be killed. I don't see the use of having a templar archives when my opponent switches from banes to mass roach. It's just not worth having HT with storms at that point in the game. If terran gets to salvage their bunkers, I should be able to salvage my templar archives.

There is something called investing in a tech structure. If you could salvage a nydus worm, this would be a free tech route that would make the mechanic imbalanced.


i hate when people resort to distorting a point and making an absolutely absurd comparison. it's really obnoxious, and there's not much to respect about your post when you do that.

it's not a free tech route. the building fucking costs 200/200. even with a retract/salvage each worm would still be 25/25 (or make it 50/50!). all you have to do is put pylons around the edge of your base. WOW SO HARD.


in fact, if nydus had a retract/salvage ability to make the worms cheaper, it would indirectly revive the hydra in all matchups. 6 hydras in a nydus worm would be zerg's version of an 8 marine medivac drop. but unlike a medivac drop, if you see it before it hits, the zerg loses a guaranteed 100/100 since it has to complete before it is salvageable.

honestly people bitch all the time about this game being too easy. but as soon as you ask them to have some map awareness and notice a fucking red square in their base, people flip shit. it's incredible.
fast food. y u no make me fast? <( ಠ益ಠ <)
ibreakurface
Profile Joined June 2010
United States664 Posts
March 02 2012 06:57 GMT
#337
I swear there is one of these threads every other month. Simple version is they are super weak and poop units out too slowly. They can get sniped before 5-6 units get pooped out.
:) I play zerg. FOX AND KT ROLSTER COASTER FAN! Because I love everyone. Except bisu.
TheDraken
Profile Joined July 2011
United States640 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-02 07:01:39
March 02 2012 07:00 GMT
#338
and no, a nydus is a horrible waste of money for saving workers.

1. it's the fist thing they'll target
2. just burrow your damn drones. if it's a drop, they usually don't have detection. if it's their whole army, you could use the extra supply.
fast food. y u no make me fast? <( ಠ益ಠ <)
Drmooose
Profile Joined March 2011
United States390 Posts
March 02 2012 07:24 GMT
#339
The LagTV video that was put up is a great example of good Nydus use. However, its very situational. As many have pointed out Drop works so much better the majority of the time. The same amount of gas and minerals and it allows for overlord spread and isnt a waste if your nydus gets sniped lol. I'd like to see a bit more of a Cocoon like buff when its morphing in. Let it get up at least before it gets torn down. If they have 10 marines targeting the thing its not like everything will be able to funnel through fast enough to take over. The fact that a few workers can kill it really deters me from using it.

I think its similar to the Warp Prism in the fact that its a bit expensive for what it does unless you can actually use it somewhat safely without completely wasting your investment. It doesnt even need to be buffed as much as WP was in terms of health...maybe take away the loud roaring noise/notification...it still shows up on the map if you have vision. It'd encourage better pylon/depot/overlord placement. This would reward better players who have good placement and would also reward players that can sneak it in.
I have a question...
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
March 02 2012 07:33 GMT
#340
it's funny how people always suggest to get things preemptively... I mean, people have to realize, that even if certain stuff is only 3clicks away as zerg, it's not useful to have a preemptive Nydus, Hydra Den, Roach Warren, OL speed, OL drops, 1 overseer/1 spore/1spine per expo, burrow, roach speed, Infestation Pit, 3 extra queens... when you are going muta/ling/bling...
If you plan on using it, get it; if it is only useful for a "what if" situation (like: what if you have a chance to nydus him and maybe blow up a few workers), it is generally not useful.
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