EPTIt makes the basetrade even easier, because you will just have 60drones in his main or whereever you want to flee with them; though I guess from 2bases with mutas... you're going to be very tight on the gas
Why is the Nydus Worm underused? - Page 15
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
It makes the basetrade even easier, because you will just have 60drones in his main or whereever you want to flee with them; though I guess from 2bases with mutas... you're going to be very tight on the gas | ||
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TheDraken
United States640 Posts
give zergs the option to retract it back into the ground after it completes. 75% money back. | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
On March 02 2012 06:39 TheDraken wrote: if terrans get to salvage their bunkers, i should get to salvage my frikin nyduses. it's just not worth the 100 gas if it's almost always going to get killed. give zergs the option to retract it back into the ground after it completes. 75% money back. bunkers are minerals and meant for defense. nydus worms are offensive/unusual structures like the sensor tower which costs 125 gas. | ||
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TheDraken
United States640 Posts
On March 02 2012 06:43 Gamegene wrote: bunkers are minerals and meant for defense. nydus worms are offensive/unusual structures like the sensor tower which costs 125 gas. if only the nydus were as useful as a sensor tower. it's still noisy as fuck. it's still weak as shit. it still unloads one at a time. you still have to invest 200 gas into the original network. a salvage ability would be MORE than fair. | ||
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Mrvoodoochild1
United States1439 Posts
On March 02 2012 06:39 TheDraken wrote: if terrans get to salvage their bunkers, i should get to salvage my frikin nyduses. it's just not worth the 100 gas if it's almost always going to get killed. give zergs the option to retract it back into the ground after it completes. 75% money back. Yah, I should be able to salvage my Nexus or any other tech structure that I don't have any use for and that might be killed. I don't see the use of having a templar archives when my opponent switches from banes to mass roach. It's just not worth having HT with storms at that point in the game. If terran gets to salvage their bunkers, I should be able to salvage my templar archives. There is something called investing in a tech structure. If you could salvage a nydus worm, this would be a free tech route that would make the mechanic imbalanced. | ||
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TheRPGAddict
United States1403 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On March 02 2012 06:47 TheDraken wrote: if only the nydus were as useful as a sensor tower. it's still noisy as fuck. it's still weak as shit. it still unloads one at a time. you still have to invest 200 gas into the original network. a salvage ability would be MORE than fair. And other things have huge disadvantages too, and still people use them. Though I don't think that salvage would be OP (nor do I think it would be really good...), I don't think it would change anything, nor do I think, that a strong Nydus option is needed for Zerg. Pretty much everything Zerg has overlaps partly with Nydus... Drops, Creep, Speed Upgrades. The time the Nydus becomes really useful, you are in a stalemate which usually can only be achieved by going Broodlords, which can't use the Nydus... It's problem is not really the balancing (it's rather questionable if it should be buffed in a way, that it becomes very useful early on, out of balance terms and also to avoid every Zerg strategy centering around not fighting an opponent), but the design that is not really needed. At least in the current metagame/mappool. | ||
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FindMuck
63 Posts
That means ultralisks will come out one at a time, but lings will spawn in 12 and roaches in 3. Also, nydus cant be cancelled (i think) | ||
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Kmatt
United States1019 Posts
Perhaps giving the worm a "retreat" ability, where it could burrow back underground, and make the next worm either free to spawn or cheaper would make it much more appealing. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On March 02 2012 06:56 FindMuck wrote: I think units should come out supply wise, like 6 supply at a time. That means ultralisks will come out one at a time, but lings will spawn in 12 and roaches in 3. Also, nydus cant be cancelled (i think) Changes like that would mean zerg would win every game that goes longer than 10-15 minutes. How can you possibly move out when a zerg can attack your 3rd and be back for a perfect defense in the time it takes you to cross the map? The only thing keeping that ability in a reasonable check is that you can't cancel the nydus and the well tuned unloading speed. Sure right now you can do ling run bys, but with changes like that to the nydus it could be any unit (hydra, roach, etc.). | ||
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Fusa
Canada148 Posts
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Merikh
United States918 Posts
I see the future of nydus is defensively one at each base on big maps and using to reinforce like warpgates are used to reinforce for protoss. | ||
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StayPhrosty
Canada406 Posts
On March 02 2012 07:31 Merikh wrote: It's not cost efficient enough, easy to spot, expensive, small amount of probes can deal with it. Oh and it can't be cancelled. I see the future of nydus is defensively one at each base on big maps and using to reinforce like warpgates are used to reinforce for protoss. i defeinitely agree with this. its just not quite what people assume it is, and blizz isnt going to buff it before HotS | ||
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Dr_Hyde
10 Posts
On March 02 2012 06:13 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote: Preparing for banshees and DT's is a lot different from having an entire zerg army swarm into your base unexpectedly. Preparing for it is actually easier than prepping for a banshee attack, and the results are basically the same but easier to stop the zerg issue. If you have no detection at all and a banshee or DT hits you, you're f'ed, at least one base worth of probes are down the drain, against banshees, you still need anti-air to kill them even if you do have detection and they're a lot harder to pin down than a DT because they fly. Stopping a nydus is simply about having regular vision across your base, nothing more, and if they do somehow get a nydus in your base because you don't have vision everywhere, you can kill the pain by killing the nydus quickly and mopping up the regular units that aren't cloaked in your base. I think it's easier to both prevent and stop a nydus attack than a banshee or dt attack if we're talking earlier game. Once you have detection it may be easier to stop DT and banshee, but without it, it's harder, but detection IS the preparation we're talking about. | ||
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madestro
Costa Rica108 Posts
On March 02 2012 06:39 TheDraken wrote: if terrans get to salvage their bunkers, i should get to salvage my frikin nyduses. it's just not worth the 100 gas if it's almost always going to get killed. give zergs the option to retract it back into the ground after it completes. 75% money back. Yes I agree, seems to me the second worm should be "salvaged" leaving you with the main worm back at home that you spent money on. On March 02 2012 06:43 Gamegene wrote: bunkers are minerals and meant for defense. nydus worms are offensive/unusual structures like the sensor tower which costs 125 gas. Defense huh ? Tell that to every pro that sends an scv and 2 marines at the front of every zerg's nat to get a bunker up and force lings out; he is defending ? Oh well I'll just run my marines back and salvage the bunker. Would you do it if you didn't get to salvage the structure ? If it is because it's a gas building then fine, make the main nydus as it is now but the other part change it from 100/100 to 150 mins only; hell I'll even reduce the salvage percentaje to 60% so it's not as cheesy as the bunker. The fact of the matter is that a nydus is way way too expensive for what it does, the only thing I could use it for is to reinforce a push with hydras, everything else in the zerg arsenal is pretty fast or has a speed upgrade like the roaches (broods don't count since they can't use it) and for defense is only useful for saving drones from a base but the slow unloading will never let you save a base in time; it's faster to send your units the "regular" way. I think it's a pretty cool concept but the cost makes it a no go since every zerg values gas more than his life in the mid-game. | ||
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Kevlar622
United States49 Posts
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mind0killer
United States26 Posts
On March 02 2012 06:49 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote: Yah, I should be able to salvage my Nexus or any other tech structure that I don't have any use for and that might be killed. I don't see the use of having a templar archives when my opponent switches from banes to mass roach. It's just not worth having HT with storms at that point in the game. If terran gets to salvage their bunkers, I should be able to salvage my templar archives. There is something called investing in a tech structure. If you could salvage a nydus worm, this would be a free tech route that would make the mechanic imbalanced. The nydus worm is the only structure that cannot be canceled before completion if it is not wanted. Every protoss structure can be canceled before completion for 75% of the cost. Nydus should not be salvageable, but it should be able to be canceled if it will obviously not complete | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
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mind0killer
United States26 Posts
This might work on the Entombed Valley but you would need to break the rocks and the position is much more defensible for the protoss since it is a narrow choke with no high ground to attack from. Hydra is still good for a 2 base timing vs protoss because you can pressure the front and kill off gates/core/forge used to build the wall if you get the range upgrade, but it is probably more cost effective to use overlords to make a creep highway. One other map I have had success with a nydus + hydra attack is on metalopolis. I was vs a SG protoss and I stuck the nydus in the corner outside the natural by the mengst statue. That was a fun game, but I don't think I am high enough level too say it is actually an effective strategy vs good players. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
Also, another thing most Zergs have not done yet is use nydus worms with a single queen inside of it to spread creep to expansions on the map and forward locations. It's an example of a very powerful use for nydus worms that has not caught on yet. | ||
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