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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.
Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. |
On February 11 2012 03:17 Azhrei16 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 03:16 SolidMoose wrote:On February 11 2012 03:12 theofficial wrote:On February 11 2012 03:10 xTrim wrote:
overmake vikings = lose to f**king ultra switch... god i hate this, why do i keep playing? The simple answer is don't overmake. The more complicated asnwer resides in what you have to do in order NOT to overmake vikings. Just scout hard and often. I'm supposed to scout 10 ultras popping at once when it's too late? Maybe they should use that april fools patch and make ultra eggs gigantic. Scout the Hive timing, watch for the Ultralisk Cavern going down? Come on man, really. Scouting is a lost art in Starcraft 2 because the game encourages people to be lazy.
You know what, I did this and I was kinda surprised to see 30 mutalisks/banelings/lings to roll over my ghosts.. See my point?
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On February 11 2012 03:15 NewK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 02:42 Avril_Lavigne wrote:On February 11 2012 02:40 Thorzain wrote:
I really feel that they overdid the snipe nerf. Ghosts really isn't a counter to ultralisks (300 energy to kill 1 ultralisk), and not a hard-counter to brood lords (they are good against them but not imba).
I feel that 20 damage is too much of a removal. When snipe doesn't even one shot a baneling or a zergling, something is wrong. Will be useless against zealots as well because the normal attack is just as strong as the snipe will be against light units. this is quite true. isn't the ghost attack 20 vs light? and snipe is 25 damage? LOL?? It's obvious they don't want snipe to be used to damage beefy units anymore. They want it to be used to snipe casters (seeing as all t2 casters are psionic). I find it sort of weird that they're removing the ghost for TvZ yet not nerfing something in Zerg in return... I'd expect something like.. idk. Giving vikings a reduced damage taken against fungal buff or something.
The snipe change doesn't make it a useless spell. Even though the snipe damage of 25 is closer to the regular attack of 20 of the ghost you can still do massive damage with all of the energy on the ghosts in a short period of time. It's just not game ending damage by itself.
(edited for bad spelling)
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Well, I think the MULE rich mineral change is great, makes things more fair. The phoenix change might spice up PvZ a bit, and seems reasonable enough to me (kept on the fleet beacon means mutas are still viable harrassment).
But the snipe change is a bit too much imo. -25 damage is too much, perhaps -10 or -15 (or energy cost increase) would be better suited. It just seems really drastic, not characteristic of blizzard's approach at all, and I have a feeling it will wreck late game tvz. Terran's needed ghosts to beat zerg's tier 3 units, and now they just seems way too weak to be viable  . We'll see how this plays out I suppose.
Return of APM is nice as well, there was no reason to remove it from our view completely. Showing both will be a happy compromise.
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On February 11 2012 03:16 mvtaylor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 03:13 Qaatar wrote:On February 11 2012 03:07 mvtaylor wrote:On February 11 2012 03:02 See.Blue wrote:
For so long T has been so dominant, and yet they're so vocal over such a small change. I don't get it... Getting back to "dominance"... it doesn't really exist any more, Jjakji and MVP have won four GSLs combined and both got eliminated in the ro16. The nerfs to Terran from the last four/five patches are getting really annoying to deal with so a double Terran nerf and a Protoss buff is just, ARRARGH. ... MVP lost in TvT's, most due to his CTS problems flaring up. Jjakji lost in TvP's, but these Terran nerfs do nothing in that matchup, as others have stated. Gold bases are already non-existent in the GSL, and Snipes actually do +5 damage to many Protoss units now (Terrans only snipe Templars anyways...EMP is more effective for everything else). Sniping zealots wasn't the worst thing in the world you know... As for gold bases, the thing is they do exist in a bunch of ladder maps...
I thought we were talking about the highest level of play (GSL)? I haven't seen zealot snipes be a game-changer in any game.
Edit: either way, you're mostly preaching to the choir. I'm just more worried about the potential TvZ problems now. TvP is what it is - nothing short of HoTS is going to fix that matchup.
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On February 11 2012 03:18 itsMAHVELbaybee wrote:
Looks like more Terran all-ins against Zerg are going to be more frequent. What fun.
Yah, because terran all-ins aren't already frequent enough.
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"oh, they changed one unit a bit, guess I'll have to change my race now" I would like to see the stats on who actually does change their race after making such threats, I bet hardly anyone does. I don't think those posters respect Blizzard's track record in keeping the game quite balanced after all this time.
I did think ghosts in TvZ late-game presented an unfavorable scenario however. Ghosts are hard to kill, they can cloak and snipe overseers, they can escape being trapped by infestors by using EMP and snipe on them. They also deal front-up damage that is easy to avoid. All of this encourages the terran to turtle and use their ghost energy as the most important late-game resource and I think it made for somewhat of an unwinnable situation for zerg where they had no real answer for this.
The danger with nerfing ghosts only a tiny bit is that you simply just weaken terran, but ghost late-game is still the dominant strategy and is preferable to alternatives like ravens or vikings in late-game. Going from 45-40 might be too slight of a change if Blizzard's goal is to not have this late-game situation occurring anymore.
I don't like having snipe be so weak that sometimes it's like more damage to just auto-attack though, it seems silly.
And the mule change is okay, but really, gold minerals make it harder to comeback and mules are still too easy to use. (just give them a cooldown)
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On February 11 2012 03:11 TheV wrote:
Aren't Phoenixes going to be able to pick up workers from waaaay far away from the mineral line? I am afraid of them phoenixes avoiding my spore crawlers and still picking up workers.
Indeed, this may break Phoenix harass completely. With the upgrade, they will only have 1 less range than spores so they can easily avoid them.
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Am i the only one thinking that snipe is just a bad feedback now?.. Always takes two to kill, does nothing if only one hits, and has a long animation and a bug with masscast without shift..
And this kills the lovely ghost openings in TvT. Who would ever build a ghost outside TvP now?
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On February 11 2012 03:16 magnaflow wrote:
This is going to make Terran even more micro intensice (having to control vikings) which is great at the top level, but lower league terran players are going to dissapear. Which isn't a good thing
Yea, the race that was most micro intensive at high levels in the first place needed more micro, while the race that has arguably the least (P) is getting an upgrade that essentially makes a unit less-micro intensive. That totally seems reasonable.
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On February 11 2012 03:11 TheV wrote:
Aren't Phoenixes going to be able to pick up workers from waaaay far away from the mineral line? I am afraid of them phoenixes avoiding my spore crawlers and still picking up workers.
the attack range is goona be buffed, not the graviton beam.
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Ghost are now useless vs zerg. Thx blizz. (they weren't even really used in gsl).
Now I guess terrans need to use ravens/vikings to counter broods. Not sure how that gonna work.
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I don't mind ghost being useful as a caster sniper + emp caster.. Like it's ok not to use gost as a lategame "fighter", but give me fucking something to deal with lategame Z and P, for the sake of Starcraft or I'm going to allin every singe game..
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On February 11 2012 03:19 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 03:17 Azhrei16 wrote:On February 11 2012 03:16 SolidMoose wrote:On February 11 2012 03:12 theofficial wrote:On February 11 2012 03:10 xTrim wrote:
overmake vikings = lose to f**king ultra switch... god i hate this, why do i keep playing? The simple answer is don't overmake. The more complicated asnwer resides in what you have to do in order NOT to overmake vikings. Just scout hard and often. I'm supposed to scout 10 ultras popping at once when it's too late? Maybe they should use that april fools patch and make ultra eggs gigantic. Scout the Hive timing, watch for the Ultralisk Cavern going down? Come on man, really. Scouting is a lost art in Starcraft 2 because the game encourages people to be lazy. You know what, I did this and I was kinda surprised to see 30 mutalisks/banelings/lings to roll over my ghosts.. See my point?
So your army was pure Ghost? Doesn't sound very viable to me.
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On February 11 2012 03:02 See.Blue wrote:
For so long T has been so dominant, and yet they're so vocal over such a small change. I don't get it...
T is dominant at the highest korean level (i.e. 10 really good terrans). At every other level, they have had the lowest winrate vs P and vs Z. I agree with balance for the highest level, but terrans in this thread are whining because their hard life was just made harder for them, with nerfs every patch.
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They need to buff BCs vs Protoss... They need to 1 shot Colossi
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On February 11 2012 03:14 HaXXspetten wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 03:07 venage wrote:
When was the last time terran had a buff? TTQQ Given that Terrans have had a positive winratio in TvZ since the release of the game, why would they need a buff for it? -.-
stop talking about win ratio like its the only statistic that matters.
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On February 11 2012 03:17 Azhrei16 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 03:16 SolidMoose wrote:On February 11 2012 03:12 theofficial wrote:On February 11 2012 03:10 xTrim wrote:
overmake vikings = lose to f**king ultra switch... god i hate this, why do i keep playing? The simple answer is don't overmake. The more complicated asnwer resides in what you have to do in order NOT to overmake vikings. Just scout hard and often. I'm supposed to scout 10 ultras popping at once when it's too late? Maybe they should use that april fools patch and make ultra eggs gigantic. Scout the Hive timing, watch for the Ultralisk Cavern going down? Come on man, really. Scouting is a lost art in Starcraft 2 because the game encourages people to be lazy.
But what if he has both and i know off both and i just killed a huge part of his army , How am i supposed to know what he is remaxing on until its possibly too late ? Guessing and crossing fingers ? If i build vikings he build Ultras i'm dead same with Marauders and Broods.
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On February 11 2012 03:19 hotsuma wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 02:55 n0ave wrote:On February 11 2012 02:53 stratmatt wrote:
WHy is it that zerg and toss get a brutal ass area of effect spell that can just mruder entire clumps of units butwe get one measly snipe, and an ALREADY nerfed EMP. Seriosuly EMP now is almost just as useless as snipe is going to be. So that T players learn not to clump up units  But zerg and toss can make a death ball 1A no problem!
To even suggest that Protoss can go out of their way to clump everything together against ghosts with EMP is one of the most ignorant things I've ever read.
You know that EMP is the size of storm, right? And both storm and EMP's radius got nerfed to that size, right?
EMP is useless? Where's my bic razor... Get Real.
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they buffed phoenix so they could keep carriers in heart of the swarm
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seriously? more Terran nerfs? lmao, glad I watch more than I play this is just getting more and more frustrating every patch.
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EPT
