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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.
Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. |
On February 11 2012 03:11 densha wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 03:07 venage wrote:
When was the last time terran had a buff? TTQQ When was the last time Terran was balanced? Buffs/nerfs are only handed out if Blizzard deems necessary and I think Terrans are lucky with how long Ghosts have gone without a nerf. Remember they were even buffed with a reduced gas cost but their power was never brought in line with that buff. Now I think Snipe scales nicely with how easy it is to mass ghosts (at least at the pro level).
There is no "scaling" at all. And that "buff" for reduced gas was because no one was using ghosts EVER because they cost 200 gas to get out when people were basically 2 basing at best at that point in the "metagame's development". Also. How long they've gone without a nerf? you mean...last patch?
Nerfing snipe only underlines how fucked up late game tvz is. without ghosts terran just doesn't have a late game that's feasible other than make vikings and HOPE the zerg doesn't have the capacity to make ultras to switch to. this is bad and shitty design for terran AND zerg.
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On February 11 2012 03:11 TheV wrote:
Aren't Phoenixes going to be able to pick up workers from waaaay far away from the mineral line? I am afraid of them phoenixes avoiding my spore crawlers and still picking up workers.
I don't think this will affect the pick up range of workers. Probably just the range of the attack itself.
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MULE and APM/CPM changes are great. The Phoenix range upgrade is good for Protoss dealing with mass Mutas, but that Snipe nerf... wow.
What are Terrans supposed to do late-game against a primarily Brood Lord based army? Vikings are destroyed by infestors/corruptors, and snipes won't be able to kill Broods as efficiently. I think the TvZ winrate is going to sway in the favor of Zerg soon, if games continue to get to the Brood Lord stage. 
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On February 11 2012 03:14 Recognizable wrote:I just switched from Terran to Zerg I guess. No reason to play the hardest race when it doesn't even result in a stronger race  The snipe change is completely unwarranted.
If terran gets 8/10 geisers in tvz before dying, its a free win.
yep , completly unwarranted.
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The range 6 for phoenix + the fact that they can shoot while moving could make them very very powerful, and could really vitalize protoss air. This has the potential to competely shut down muta play however, as with good micro by the protoss, there is simply no way for a muta-flock (3 range) to defeat a group of phoenix unless there is fungal support.
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On February 11 2012 03:16 SolidMoose wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 03:12 theofficial wrote:On February 11 2012 03:10 xTrim wrote:
overmake vikings = lose to f**king ultra switch... god i hate this, why do i keep playing? The simple answer is don't overmake. The more complicated asnwer resides in what you have to do in order NOT to overmake vikings. Just scout hard and often. I'm supposed to scout 10 ultras popping at once when it's too late? Maybe they should use that april fools patch and make ultra eggs gigantic.
Scout the Hive timing, watch for the Ultralisk Cavern going down? Come on man, really. Scouting is a lost art in Starcraft 2 because the game encourages people to be lazy.
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All good changes. The phoenix one is my favorite since I'm Protoss and I hate mutalisks so much!
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omg this patch is sooo totally genius!!! :D
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Looks like more Terran all-ins against Zerg are going to be more frequent. What fun.
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great patch. good for phoenix. love that
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so i can basically quit after 25 mins tvz?
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On February 11 2012 03:11 stormchaser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 03:08 superstartran wrote:
David Kim simply doesn't understand that if the Z is allowing Terran to take a split map position than the Z is doing something seriously wrong. Ghosts are expensive as shit, and for them to have such a significantly weakened snipe only means that Blord/Infestor is going to be that much better.
It's not even like everyone could do it, you had a handful of pro players who were capable of utilizing Ghosts well enough to counter Blord/Infestor. Are you kidding me. Everything you just said is so misinformed, I don't even wanna explain...
How is it misinformation?
Z players have plenty of time to secure 3rds/4ths way ahead of T. If Terran takes too fast of a 3rd you can either bust him or contain him hard with Mutas. On maps where 3rds are basically impossible to take without doing a 2 base timing (which there are quite a few), Mutas can contain Terran players forever.
If you allow the Terran player to have the infrastructure to afford his 200 deathball of Ghosts/PFs/Turrets/Sensor Towers/Max Upgrades/etc. etc. (i.e. like LeeNock did vs Morrow, or Nestea vs MVP), then you're doing something awfully wrong as a Z player. You have so many options to stop a Terran player's 3rd/4th, or at least contain and severely harm him economically. It's like a bunch of Terran players whining that Protoss late game is overpowered. Well no shit, because Terran midgame for the longest time against Protoss was basically fucking unstoppable.
Z players have plenty of ways to play aggressive and deny any kind of economic greedy play (you need 6 geysers to afford Ghosts+Vikings or Ghosts/Maurader/Tank/Medivacs, etc. etc. with upgrades). On the much larger maps, Z has plenty of ways to take fast 3rds no problem, even against Helion openings.
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Nani is the biggest whiner... why does he care? he only needs Blizzard to buff probes
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On February 11 2012 03:15 freetgy wrote:
the range upgrade should be on, cybernetics core, but should cost alot like 150/150 or 200/200
fleet beacon is too much tech imho.
also snipe change is a huge buff in PvT
it doesn't seem much, but Snipe now does 10% more damage vs. Protoss
this means Ghosts can now 3-shoot zealots instead of 4
Nope. Zealots are not psionic. It takes more snipes now.
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On February 11 2012 03:14 HaXXspetten wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 03:07 venage wrote:
When was the last time terran had a buff? TTQQ Given that Terrans have had a positive winratio in TvZ since the release of the game, why would they need a buff for it? -.-
Most of that is due to the Terran early game, which they still haven't done anything to fix since the 5 second barracks nerf (which didn't do much, btw).
Seriously, this is just going to change most T players from 40-50% cheesers into 70-80% cheesers.
Instead of fixing the biggest problem in metagame right now (T early game), they nerf the one area that allows Terrans to stay competitive in the late game. I seriously do not understand this logic, unless they deem it too difficult to change those early game aspects, and are waiting for HoTS.
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i think terran mech against Z will be so popular.
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On February 11 2012 03:12 mvtaylor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 03:11 densha wrote:On February 11 2012 03:07 venage wrote:
When was the last time terran had a buff? TTQQ When was the last time Terran was balanced? Buffs/nerfs are only handed out if Blizzard deems necessary and I think Terrans are lucky with how long Ghosts have gone without a nerf. Remember they were even buffed with a reduced gas cost but their power was never brought in line with that buff. Now I think Snipe scales nicely with out easy it is to mass ghosts (at least at the pro level). And for all us plebs that aren't pro players? I think the vast majority of people who like watching starcraft also play it...
If you're not a pro then presumably you're not playing against players who are executing late-game Zerg strategies at a high level. You don't just make units and a-move as Zerg, as much as Terrans seem to think that. It takes skill to control all the elements of the slow-moving Zerg deathball.
While this will make Terrans more vulnerable to Zerg in end-game (that's the point of the nerf, obviously) the alternative was that massing ghosts amounted to all but a free win for the Terran. Once the ghosts are out in force, there is literally no Zerg unit composition that can be used effectively against them. Yes lings and other units like that work well against ghosts, but marines and tanks don't just disappear.
I think it's better that Terrans have a challenge than to simply give them a free win in the end-game.
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I thought the new rage was to complain about protoss nowadays. Musta missed something
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On February 11 2012 02:55 n0ave wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 02:53 stratmatt wrote:
WHy is it that zerg and toss get a brutal ass area of effect spell that can just mruder entire clumps of units butwe get one measly snipe, and an ALREADY nerfed EMP. Seriosuly EMP now is almost just as useless as snipe is going to be. So that T players learn not to clump up units 
But zerg and toss can make a death ball 1A no problem!
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How can they nerf snipe without nerfing BL/infestors? Talk about promoting terrans to cheese more because late game zerg is stupid strong
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EPT
