• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:43
CEST 08:43
KST 15:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event18Serral wins EWC 202549
Community News
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris20Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!13Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up6
StarCraft 2
General
2v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away What mix of new and old maps do you want in the next 1v1 ladder pool? (SC2) : The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Monday Nights Weeklies Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull
Brood War
General
Joined effort Flash On His 2010 "God" Form, Mind Games, vs JD New season has just come in ladder BW General Discussion Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro24 Group B [ASL20] Ro24 Group C BWCL Season 63 Announcement [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread The year 2050 Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment"
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Breaking the Meta: Non-Stand…
TrAiDoS
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2008 users

Patch 1.4.3 - Preview Blog - Page 32

Forum Index > SC2 General
4449 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 30 31 32 33 34 223 Next
Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.

Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions.
skrzmark
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1528 Posts
February 10 2012 18:26 GMT
#621
I hope this brings back the phoenix colossus build against terran.
We got them GOM TvT's and them mlGG's
Fus
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden1112 Posts
February 10 2012 18:27 GMT
#622
I feel that these are great changes. Few, but great. I wonder if phoenix will just be impossible to kill now with mutas when a good protoss is controling.
NaNiwa | Innovation | Flash | DeMuslim ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Qaatar
Profile Joined January 2011
1409 Posts
February 10 2012 18:27 GMT
#623
On February 11 2012 03:23 kusu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 03:20 Qaatar wrote:
On February 11 2012 03:16 mvtaylor wrote:
On February 11 2012 03:13 Qaatar wrote:
On February 11 2012 03:07 mvtaylor wrote:
On February 11 2012 03:02 See.Blue wrote:
For so long T has been so dominant, and yet they're so vocal over such a small change. I don't get it...


Getting back to "dominance"... it doesn't really exist any more, Jjakji and MVP have won four GSLs combined and both got eliminated in the ro16. The nerfs to Terran from the last four/five patches are getting really annoying to deal with so a double Terran nerf and a Protoss buff is just, ARRARGH.

...


MVP lost in TvT's, most due to his CTS problems flaring up. Jjakji lost in TvP's, but these Terran nerfs do nothing in that matchup, as others have stated. Gold bases are already non-existent in the GSL, and Snipes actually do +5 damage to many Protoss units now (Terrans only snipe Templars anyways...EMP is more effective for everything else).


Sniping zealots wasn't the worst thing in the world you know...

As for gold bases, the thing is they do exist in a bunch of ladder maps...


I thought we were talking about the highest level of play (GSL)? I haven't seen zealot snipes be a game-changer in any game.

Edit: either way, you're mostly preaching to the choir. I'm just more worried about the potential TvZ problems now. TvP is what it is - nothing short of HoTS is going to fix that matchup.

Select's code a game; he used snipe alot.


Select's struggling mightly against Protoss nowadays. You're talking about one series in a sea of TvP's that do not feature such play.
mengsk83
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany519 Posts
February 10 2012 18:27 GMT
#624
Dont like these changes, the game at it's current state seemed to be pretty balanced. MULE nerf is ok i think but snipe nerf and phoenix buff are unnessecary imo.
anguyenm
Profile Joined January 2012
United States47 Posts
February 10 2012 18:27 GMT
#625
I disagree with the extent on how much they're nerfing ghosts. Almost half the damage gone? Terran's casters are trash now. And they did a study on MLG Providence (I think, maybe a different one) where ZvT's chances to win increased to 70% after 20 minutes. So in the late game, zergs were 70% more likely to win. Sure ghosts needed to be nerfed but not to half the damage. That's ridiculous.

Also, this patch completely disregards TvP. Blizzard would much rather acknowledge APM??

Christ.
Gosi
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Sweden9072 Posts
February 10 2012 18:27 GMT
#626
Why put the phoenix upgrade so far up in the tech tree? Why not just put it @ cybercore or twilight council? :/
[13:40] <Qbek> gosi i dreanmt about you
Mzimzim
Profile Joined June 2011
United States221 Posts
February 10 2012 18:27 GMT
#627
The new maps and now this? My confidence in blizzard is at an all time high.
neoghaleon55
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7435 Posts
February 10 2012 18:27 GMT
#628
That ghost nerf is absolutely insane...
I can't imagine how MMA, MVP, forGG feels right now...
*throws mouse to wall.
hahahaha

Honestly it is a bit extreme....I would rather the damage reduced against armored type rather than just a blatant nerf like this.
...and I play zerg
o_O
moo...for DRG
fritos
Profile Joined March 2011
United States153 Posts
February 10 2012 18:27 GMT
#629
So when is the new patch going to be available?
RockIronrod
Profile Joined May 2011
Australia1369 Posts
February 10 2012 18:28 GMT
#630
On February 11 2012 03:26 vthree wrote:
problem with terran late game is the vikings counter broods and colossi. But even if you win a fight, what will you do with the 10 vikings? landed vikings need to be stronger

Zerg has a similar, if not worse problem against collosus with corruptors.
The Blizzard response so far is "deal w/ it", so don't expect anything.
SheerStress
Profile Joined July 2010
84 Posts
February 10 2012 18:28 GMT
#631
so lets talk math here. Lets say its late game reasonably close, zerg has 8 broodlords plus a bunch of infestor corrupter ling vs say 10 ghosts, marines, tanks, a few vikings (~ number of corrupters). Lets say that you engage and your vikings collectively kill 2.5 broods with focus fire after being fungaled. Ignoring the rest of the micro, that leaves 5.5 broodlords which is which is now 55 snipes rather than 33 snipes. Most players with CPM (even pros) now sit at about 120 ish so 30 seconds of pure sniping.

Against ultras its even worse because some zergs love making ultras, marines do nothing so only marauders do damage. Lets say there are 8 ultras and 3 die from other sources (marauders) 5 ultras to be sniped is 95 fricken snipes. Whats the fricken point? so 1 full minute of sniping and you cant macro or micro your other units.

Mule change is great, phoenix change is iffy. it comes very late, and might dominate once its out. its not like you can open phoenix and not go colossi or storm to survive hydra tech switch anyways.
p1cKLes
Profile Joined November 2010
United States342 Posts
February 10 2012 18:28 GMT
#632
Once they get rid of every single late game tactic Terran can do… It will only force more all-ins by Terran, because they’ll be too damn scared to get into the mid to late game with either Protoss or Zerg. I do agree snipe is extremely powerful. I am not sure anyone can deny that. I just think Terrans mid to late game is not nearly as strong as the other two races. Unless you are a Korean Grandmasters, and unfortunately, I’m neither Korean or a GM, but neither is most of the Terran players.
neoghaleon55
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7435 Posts
February 10 2012 18:28 GMT
#633
On February 11 2012 03:27 Gosi wrote:
Why put the phoenix upgrade so far up in the tech tree? Why not just put it @ cybercore or twilight council? :/


It's a PLUS TWO range!!
it deserves to be up there.
moo...for DRG
HaXXspetten
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Sweden15718 Posts
February 10 2012 18:28 GMT
#634
On February 11 2012 03:21 Hider wrote:
Ghost are now useless vs zerg. Thx blizz. (they weren't even really used in gsl).

Now I guess terrans need to use ravens/vikings to counter broods. Not sure how that gonna work.

The fuck? I don't even...
Everlong
Profile Joined April 2010
Czech Republic1973 Posts
February 10 2012 18:28 GMT
#635
On February 11 2012 03:25 Azhrei16 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 03:23 Everlong wrote:
On February 11 2012 03:21 Azhrei16 wrote:
On February 11 2012 03:19 Everlong wrote:
On February 11 2012 03:17 Azhrei16 wrote:
On February 11 2012 03:16 SolidMoose wrote:
On February 11 2012 03:12 theofficial wrote:
On February 11 2012 03:10 xTrim wrote:
overmake vikings = lose to f**king ultra switch... god i hate this, why do i keep playing?


The simple answer is don't overmake. The more complicated asnwer resides in what you have to do in order NOT to overmake vikings. Just scout hard and often.


I'm supposed to scout 10 ultras popping at once when it's too late? Maybe they should use that april fools patch and make ultra eggs gigantic.


Scout the Hive timing, watch for the Ultralisk Cavern going down? Come on man, really. Scouting is a lost art in Starcraft 2 because the game encourages people to be lazy.


You know what, I did this and I was kinda surprised to see 30 mutalisks/banelings/lings to roll over my ghosts.. See my point?


So your army was pure Ghost? Doesn't sound very viable to me.


You didn't see my point, sad..


No, I seen your point. It just wasn't a very good one, hence my sarcasm. But that's what I get for trying to argue with someone on TL.


Sorry, but there is no sign for you being sarcastic (such a popular way to excuse oneself) there.. Could you now, please, explan what was my point as you clearly see it in such a detail that you can afford to be sarcastic?
fritos
Profile Joined March 2011
United States153 Posts
February 10 2012 18:29 GMT
#636
Anyone knows when this patch is going to come out?
architecture
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States643 Posts
February 10 2012 18:29 GMT
#637
If these changes go live, Blizzard is clueless.

Ghosts already barely traded evenly against Hive tech. The rest of the T army is practically worthless against Hive. Vikings and marauders are shit.
tpfkan
kyllinghest
Profile Joined December 2011
Norway1607 Posts
February 10 2012 18:29 GMT
#638
On February 11 2012 03:26 vthree wrote:
problem with terran late game is the vikings counter broods and colossi. But even if you win a fight, what will you do with the 10 vikings? landed vikings need to be stronger

I agree 100 %! Vikings are too useless after their "work" is done. All terrans and their dogs will die to the ultra switch after the ghost nerf.
"NO" -Has
MVTaylor
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2893 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-10 18:30:21
February 10 2012 18:29 GMT
#639
On February 11 2012 03:20 Grumbels wrote:
"oh, they changed one unit a bit, guess I'll have to change my race now" I would like to see the stats on who actually does change their race after making such threats, I bet hardly anyone does. I don't think those posters respect Blizzard's track record in keeping the game quite balanced after all this time.

I did think ghosts in TvZ late-game presented an unfavorable scenario however. Ghosts are hard to kill, they can cloak and snipe overseers, they can escape being trapped by infestors by using EMP and snipe on them. They also deal front-up damage that is easy to avoid. All of this encourages the terran to turtle and use their ghost energy as the most important late-game resource and I think it made for somewhat of an unwinnable situation for zerg where they had no real answer for this.

The danger with nerfing ghosts only a tiny bit is that you simply just weaken terran, but ghost late-game is still the dominant strategy and is preferable to alternatives like ravens or vikings in late-game. Going from 45-40 might be too slight of a change if Blizzard's goal is to not have this late-game situation occurring anymore.

I don't like having snipe be so weak that sometimes it's like more damage to just auto-attack though, it seems silly.

And the mule change is okay, but really, gold minerals make it harder to comeback and mules are still too easy to use. (just give them a cooldown)


Here's the number of people playing Terran when patch 1.3.0 went live

http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all/0/130

Here's the number of people playing Terran today:

http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all/0/142

Notice a difference in every league that isn't grandmaster and bronze?

EDIT: Scratch that, notice a difference in every single division?
@followMVT
ionONE
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany605 Posts
February 10 2012 18:29 GMT
#640
MMA won against DRG without Ghost at the Blizzard Cup Finals
we will see
JANGBI never forget
Prev 1 30 31 32 33 34 223 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 17m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 173
trigger 10
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 8242
Larva 574
PianO 367
ggaemo 238
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm164
League of Legends
JimRising 318
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1069
Super Smash Bros
amsayoshi27
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor152
Other Games
summit1g9489
singsing1155
SortOf50
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick811
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH366
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos443
• HappyZerGling125
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3h 17m
SC Evo League
5h 17m
Chat StarLeague
9h 17m
Razz vs Julia
StRyKeR vs ZZZero
Semih vs TBD
Replay Cast
17h 17m
Afreeca Starleague
1d 3h
Queen vs HyuN
EffOrt vs Calm
Wardi Open
1d 4h
RotterdaM Event
1d 8h
Replay Cast
1d 17h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Rush vs TBD
Jaedong vs Mong
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
herO vs TBD
Royal vs Barracks
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
LiuLi Cup
5 days
Cosmonarchy
5 days
OyAji vs Sziky
Sziky vs WolFix
WolFix vs OyAji
BSL Team Wars
5 days
Team Hawk vs Team Dewalt
BSL Team Wars
5 days
Team Hawk vs Team Bonyth
SC Evo League
6 days
[BSL 2025] Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Jiahua Invitational
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
Acropolis #4 - TS1
CSLAN 3
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
EC S1
Sisters' Call Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.