EPTForeigners' Seeds in the GSL - Page 6
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Mellon
Sweden917 Posts
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Seraphone
United Kingdom1219 Posts
On February 01 2012 02:41 Stiluz wrote: I think up/down and code S seeds should be kept, it's much more interesting to see the good foreigners compete in GSL than just the Koreans. Koreans have gotten a lot of seeds and invites for foreign tournaments, so I don't see a problem. It's not all about skill, non-Koreans brings in more viewers and attention  Only good for spreading the SC2 love! If we get separated scenes the foreign scene will start to lag behind even more and eventually die out - that would suck for everyone but the extreme hardcore fans.Is it interesting when they go 1-4 or 0-4 in their Code S group and lose in Code A round 1 and end up straight into Code B? | ||
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Seraphone
United Kingdom1219 Posts
On February 01 2012 02:43 Mellon wrote: They should give out seeds, first of all because many fans want to see foreigners play, me included. Second of all, to have people from outside of korea go there for a chance to partake in a tournament with almost no monetary gain, playing through the roughest field of players is not gonna be common. If anything i think it's great to promote a world SC2 community, so it feels less like korea vs the world, like we had in bw. No monetary gain? http://sc2earnings.com/ They're almost all Korean and most of that money is from GSL. If you're actually good and deserving of your Code S seed you make good money in Korea. | ||
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Usagi
Spain1647 Posts
On February 01 2012 02:04 Mordiford wrote: I don't see how you're justifying idiocy. You didn't prove any point, you just said a bunch of stupid things and then called it a shot at elitists. Giving seeds to non-Koreans isn't like flying over Koreans, individual seeding into invitational tournaments is completely different, those invites go to non-Koreans as well. The GSL is a qualification based tournament, Code S in particular is supposed to be the highest tier of competition, notoriously hard to get into and harder to maintain. Giving away seeds for free diminishes the value of, "Code S player". Seeding directly into Code A seems fair, even direct seeds into the Up/Down matches would be acceptable if it was at the end of a foreign qualifier. When foreigners fail to perform so spectacularly after being given an invitation to bypass a majority of the competition, it just looks like shit. 2 answers and 2 insults given, oh how I love this community at times. I am trying to put a bit of irony in many people brains that are elitists about seeds and in most cases about foreigners vs Korea. Some people want to see Koreans only? Great, the scene they might love now will become the same as it happened with BW. Foreign players might lose, but they need to play there to get better right? What better way to bond comminities, and atract interest than seeding international players even if they lose? Those crappy players that lose at the first given chance bring in attention, people watching, and sponsor money, for the koreans, those who need it badly. And I wouldnt like a korean only GSL. | ||
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RogerChillingworth
Chad3132 Posts
idra + Show Spoiler + just becauise he lost a bo3 shouldn't create such a hateful outcry. he honestly didn't play badly in the games, either./ it's sc2. fucking volatile as hell | ||
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Xalorian
Canada433 Posts
On February 01 2012 02:39 Seraphone wrote: They would risk it even without the Code A spot because you actually can't win anything major without going to Korea (Stephano being the lone exception in over a year of Starcraft). So any players who were interested in becoming the best would still need to go to and live in Korea. Do you really think that Korea will stay the "place where you need to go to become good", if tournamenet in NA/EU become all way bigger than the GSL? Soon enough, if MLG/IPL/Dreamhack keep growing as fast as they are now, the NA/EU scene will be WAY bigger than the korean one. When the foreign scene will be way more bigger than the korean scene, do you think that korean pro-player will stay there and will only participate in GSL for the "best player in the world" title? No, obviously. They will go to MLG/IPL/Dreamhack more and more, foreigners team will hire more and more koreans and there will be no need to go to korea to improve : there will be teamhouse here and all the best koreans will be here half of the time. | ||
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Lorch
Germany3711 Posts
On February 01 2012 02:45 Seraphone wrote: No monetary gain? http://sc2earnings.com/ They're almost all Korean and most of that money is from GSL. If you're actually good and deserving of your Code S seed you make good money in Korea. You do realize that the only koreans who really make money of of the gsl are the ones who win/get 2nd place right? The most a korean who didn't win a gsl and only competes in the gsl made is Nada with $29825k. A lot of foreigners who never went to korea made more, and nada had a lot of ro8s etc. and stayed in code s forever. Another good example is Clide, one of the most consistent code s players last year, he only made 15k he certainly deserved his code s status but compared to what a player of his caliber would have made by competing in all the western tournaments it's pretty much a joke. Also whenever bw is dead in korea you won't see that many koreans fly out to other tournaments/join foreign teams as they'll actually get a salary from their team etc. | ||
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
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Seraphone
United Kingdom1219 Posts
On February 01 2012 02:51 Xalorian wrote: Do you really think that Korea will stay the "place where you need to go to become good", if tournamenet in NA/EU become all way bigger than the GSL? Soon enough, if MLG/IPL/Dreamhack keep growing as fast as they are now, the NA/EU scene will be WAY bigger than the korean one. When the foreign scene will be way more bigger than the korean scene, do you think that korean pro-player will stay there and will only participate in GSL for the "best player in the world" title? No, obviously. They will go to MLG/IPL/Dreamhack more and more, foreigners team will hire more and more koreans and there will be no need to go to korea to improve : there will be teamhouse here and all the best koreans will be here half of the time. The Koreans will do exactly what they do now. They will live in Korean Pro houses train together, play GSL and then once a month go to a foreign tournament and win all the money. Plus KESPA is coming so Korea is about to become both more lucrative than the west and have way better players. | ||
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
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Xalorian
Canada433 Posts
On February 01 2012 02:52 Lorch wrote: You do realize that the only koreans who really make money of of the gsl are the ones who win/get 2nd place right? The most a korean who didn't win a gsl and only competes in the gsl made is Nada with $29825k. A lot of foreigners who never went to korea made more, and nada had a lot of ro8s etc. and stayed in code s forever. Another good example is Clide, one of the most consistent code s players last year, he only made 15k he certainly deserved his code s status but compared to what a player of his caliber would have made by competing in all the western tournaments it's pretty much a joke. Also whenever bw is dead in korea you won't see that many koreans fly out to other tournaments/join foreign teams as they'll actually get a salary from their team etc. Everything could change when BW scene switch to SC2 IF it ever happens. But, that does not mean that Korea will be the focus of that. Seeing how the western scene is growing like hell, Kespa could focus on it... or on the chinese one... giving even more seeds to foreigners that GSL are. There is no way to know. And, add salary from foreigners teams (SC2 earnings don't take into account salary) whick most koreans don't even have, i'm pretty much sure than, yes, top 1-3 will probably stay the same, but a lot of the other koreans will not even be in the top 25 any more. | ||
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Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
On February 01 2012 02:39 iky43210 wrote: Huk and idra are not the only foreigner in gsl... there are still hopes. Sen, morrow, xigua, macseed, and hero are still in it! they can still make it to code S lol | ||
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Mordiford
4448 Posts
On February 01 2012 02:48 Usagi wrote: 2 answers and 2 insults given, oh how I love this community at times. I am trying to put a bit of irony in many people brains that are elitists about seeds and in most cases about foreigners vs Korea. Some people want to see Koreans only? Great, the scene they might love now will become the same as it happened with BW. Foreign players might lose, but they need to play there to get better right? What better way to bond comminities, and atract interest than seeding international players even if they lose? Those crappy players that lose at the first given chance bring in attention, people watching, and sponsor money, for the koreans, those who need it badly. And I wouldnt like a korean only GSL. It's not about wanting to see Koreans only, it's about wanting a tournament that's representative of the best players to be limited to the best players. There's no reason for the seed to be a Code S seed, you could bond the communities with Code A invites just as well. They don't have to be in Code S to get better at the game either, they can be in Code A and practice in the Korean environment, it's not like that one extra Bo3 or Bo1 group stage against Code S players is bumping their skill level up substantially, particularly if they get rolled. Also, it's not like beating foreigners is going to bring this Koreans some great fame and success. Everyone knows that the Koreans are better at the game, that's not the question for sponsorship. There are a fair few Koreans who are better than their foreign counterparts but earn substantially less, beating IdrA won't change that. Once again, Code S isn't the only tournament in the GSL, but it should be reserved for the players who earn their way in through the merit of their own play within the GSL or through specified tournaments outside. Code A invites are a perfectly fine bypass of a setup that is inconvenient to foreigners, direct Code S seeding is a massive handout. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
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robih
Austria1086 Posts
i dont see how this is unfair | ||
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starfox0_0
United States29 Posts
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acrimoneyius
United States983 Posts
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starfox0_0
United States29 Posts
On February 01 2012 03:13 acrimoneyius wrote: When foreigners play, it gives extra incentive to watch at god-awful hours. Sometimes I'm tempted to go to bed before a broadcast starts, or can't quite make it through all the matches. It's a good business decision, regardless of other factors. Before tonights matches I actually paid for GSL light. Thank god Sen made it. I was happy for him but I'm also an EG fan so... | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
I haven't seen a peep from Korean pros or fans. Tbh I favour the up and down seeds. Enough to make it worth for the foreigners, and they have to earn their spot in the main tournament | ||
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horsepire
147 Posts
On February 01 2012 00:47 Aphasie wrote: Hey dipshit, you might want to spoiler that so my day was the only one you've ruined so far..... (Edit: Spoilered my qoute, in case he changes it - so u cant read it in the quote. Edit2: PMed him too) Anyway i dont feel it is right to give away free entry to "the most competitive tournament in the world". I understand it for GOM and i LOVE seeing foreigners compete. But it breaks the principle of competition, so in the end im against it. Come on, you hadn't watched the matches and you clicked on a thread about whether foreigners should be given free seeds into GSL? That's your own fault. Anyway, I'm for the foreign seeds, but probably only for Code A ro48. Aside from Huk, who has lived and practiced in Korea for over a year, no foreigner has shown any ability to compete in Code S. Beat Code S players on occasion? Sure. But not beat them in Code S, or even Code A, for that matter. Seeding into Code A gives foreigners an opportunity to compete in GSL while they're in Korea and a chance to prove they can stand toe to toe with GSL players on a consistent basis. If they can't, they wash out. It's not really unfair to the Koreans, either, since there's 48 Code A spots now. | ||
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