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On January 31 2012 06:03 nicknup wrote:
Tennis players forfeit games in tournaments they have commited to participate due to injuries and beeing tired and no one bash then.
Sure, things out of control are pretty reasonable excuses not to play -- like a pulled muscle f.e. -- but come on, Stephano accepted the invitation and knew perfectly well what he was getting into, he should have planned for it.. on top of that made wait for him an hour or so.. that's just him being completely unprofessional.
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On January 31 2012 05:49 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 05:46 cyclone25 wrote:
What is the purpose of this thread? The incident has been discussed a lot on the ONOG thread. The purpose of the thread is to provide information that summarizes a bunch of sources. Do you really feel its more appropriate for users to dig through 200+ pages to find information in a live report thread? Besides, this thread includes information and links that you can't find in the ONOG LR thread anyway. Since when is more information, especially information that is easily accessible, and reporting with actual sources a bad thing?
Why isn't there a thread explaining why Tyler forfeited his games ? I don't see much information about it ?
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Seems like what ONOG did is totally fine.
Stephano acted unprofessionally and was rightly punished by it. No need for more drama
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okay... stephano definitely has some fault in this, it is unprofessional to say you would do something and then not follow through without an EXTREMELY good reason.
that said, it's not like stephano was legally obligated to participate... i think it was a mistake on his part, but it doesn't make him any less professional. also, the kid's 17/18 whatever. it's not like he's got loads of experience, and everyone makes mistakes. obviously this is a mistake, and hopefully it doesn't happen again, but even if it does i think he should be punished under the rules and then that should be all. no more, no less. this seems fair, and i don't think stephano would complain about losing his second place.
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Why is nobody else upset at the punishment decision? I understand a punishment is needed, I'm not complaining that he was punished. I just can't get it through my head you just arbitrarily move the rankings around..Has this ever been done in eSports or real sports to date? We're upset that you aren't playing you are now 'roll the dice' 7th place! I mean wtf it sacrifices the integrity of the event. It seriously makes more sense to DQ a player that doesn't show up then to randomly put him in a rank you feel is enough punishment. I don't like the idea of tournament holders deciding the results. It's bad.
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What he did was ok I guess, but it still made him look like an asshole. Most people would have a little more courtesy and avoid forcing the admins into a tuff situation like that, especially without discussing properly with the admins. It sounds like he literally just put the ultimatum in chat and then immediately logged off.
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On January 31 2012 06:19 Tryxtira wrote:
I honestly just get such a bad feeling from Stephano. He seems like such a douche to me. First the whole contractfight and now this.. I don't know, doesn't seem like a likable guy and I think Complexity should be happy not to have all his bad PR on their team.
LOL, i'm sure Complexity would have been fine with it considering the results Stephano has put up. Complexity has no bad PR, they have no PR at all.
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I don't like arguments based on "professionalism" because it's such an ambiguous term. In my humble opinion, shit happens, lets just let it go.
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On January 31 2012 06:18 andis35 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 06:15 skipdog172 wrote:On January 31 2012 06:08 andis35 wrote:On January 31 2012 06:04 ohmkerg wrote:On January 31 2012 06:02 andis35 wrote:
Just like in the situation with Naniwa I am in the player's side ( this time Stephano ). He can choose when he plays and when he does not, and if he feels the conditions for him are not optimal ( being tired in this case ) he should not play. The tournament organisers should act accordingly to their rules and if there is no specific point about forfeiting, then he should just simply be awarded with 2nd place, as he rightfully earned it. He should not play in tournaments if he can't stick to their schedule. If he can't stick to their rules, why should they stick to their own? Moving him to 4th is a +1 in my book(and my book is hella long). Stephano did not violate any rules, forfeiting from tournament is not forbidden. However, I do not think there is any rule that allows tournament organisers to simply put a 2nd place player in 4th spot. Tournament organizers can disqualify players at their own discretion. They should not be allowed to, that is the biggest problem is sc now.
Of course they should, and there's a reason why they can't abuse it. This was completely justified.
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Both parties are at fault. But it's pretty scary that after you win the semi final a tournament can put you back into 4th place.
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On January 31 2012 06:18 skipdog172 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 06:14 EdouarKiLL wrote:
I dont understand the meaning of this thread... It was so that tournament organizers could explain the reasoning behind changing the finals and placing Stephano in 4th place.
Yeah the title of the thread is "Explanation about ONOG placements" or something like that
1st personnal and official hate thread on TL for stephano, 'congratz'
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On January 31 2012 06:20 crms wrote:
Why is nobody else upset at the punishment decision? I understand a punishment is needed, I'm not complaining that he was punished. I just can't get it through my head you just arbitrarily move the rankings around..Has this ever been done in eSports or real sports to date? We're upset that you aren't playing you are now 'roll the dice' 7th place! I mean wtf it sacrifices the integrity of the event. It seriously makes more sense to DQ a player that doesn't show up then to randomly put him in a rank you feel is enough punishment. I don't like the idea of tournament holders deciding the results. It's bad.
I agree that Stephano should've been DQ's completely instead of getting the 4th place. Other players were more deserving an they at least signed up for a tournament and stuck to their commitment of finishing it.
The whole 'making everyone wait 40 minutes' part is what irks me the absolute most. The organizers should not have given him the time and should've DQ'd him from the tournament the instant he refused to play the finals.
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ONOG did the right thing. The match couldnt be delayed till the next day. It was scheduled for 2 days, it was a Barcraft tourny. Stephano knew this. These people worked for 3 months just to gather the prize money. Also there was 10k people watching at the time. It wasnt a playhem daily.
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I fully support ONOG's decision. Stephano acted like a brat and by the sounds of it didn't even bother to have a discussion about it. He accepted the invitation and decided to play other tournaments on the same day. He knew the schedule (or should have). No excuses.
If I were ONOG or some tournament organizer of the same size, I'd be very hesitant to invite Stephano for an event like this. He probably have enough of other tournaments to play in anyway. The only loss is the viewers.
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On January 31 2012 06:22 dubRa wrote:
Both parties are at fault. But it's pretty scary that after you win the semi final a tournament can put you back into 4th place.
it's pretty scary for a tournament to realize a player can just quit the finals while you have 20k people watching and sponsors...
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I do think how stephano acted was wrong but at the same time most other Sports or other sc2 Games if it is getting too late will stop and carry on the day after you can't blame stephano for wanting to go sleep when he has been in bed all day and the matches got delayed.. at the end of the day it is stephano life and he can do what he wants.. they shouldn;t have to make him play a match or stay up alot longer then he wanted and the face he was sleepy will mess up his game which is also unfair on him..
But thats what i think anyways
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On January 31 2012 06:04 Neelia wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 04:17 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Side point, that didn't get put out there, but that annoyed me.
Rules stated all games were to be played on NA server. So I expected this. (I realize it is fairer, ALOT fairer even to alternate servers after each game) However rules are rules and I've played tons of tournaments that are ONLY EU events, and I was looking forward to this event being a NA event.
Stephano said he would forfeit and not play his games against Violet unless it was alternating games. This caused ONLY the matches after his to be played this way. Sase vs Catz for instance was ONLY on NA. And the games of Me vs Kas were played on alternating servers (EU + NA). I do think that way is fairest, but I really dislike coming into a tournament expecting something and having the rules changed on me within 10 minutes of me having to play.
And more on topic, its unprofessional to do this as a player, but if you are as successful of a player as Stephano you can do this and be fine. After all, we all want to see his play. Its amazing play. I mean he alone, is probably why a huge amount of viewers were watching and if he decides randomly he doesn't want to play, he doesn't have to. Its something tournaments have to keep in mind when inviting him though.
I'm a HUGE stephano fan. So please take this as "I wish tournaments wouldn't cater to a player completely" (changing rules on the spot; server situation) and then not expect players to take advantage of the situation, by doing it again (I need sleep or Forfeit). Also, Stephano's play was absurdly good this tournament + I really enjoyed the entire tournament. It was a pleasure to be a part of and I only wish it hadn't been hurt by these occurrences. For all the people defending Stephano this Post from Sheth is imo quite important too. The rules/schedule of a invitational where he accepted the invite doesn't seem that important to him. Kinda sad that Stephano abuses his position as a fan favorite for his advantage and gets away with it.
Thanks for the quote.
I had no idea to the extent ONOG stretched themselves to accommodate for the European players...
I do find the manner in which Stephano played chicken to be inappropriate though. I mean, usually when someone complains about lag (because a Korean player lost or something), the forums response is typically people saying that it's their tournament and they can do whatever hey want so the KR players might as well not sign up. Personally I do think they should alternate servers, but it's still their tournament and I find it a bit unfair to play chicken like that. Maybe it'd be better if Stephano made his demands before he signed up.
ah wells... that said, I think Stephano quitting is fine and the punishment is fine too actually though there should be clear rules later.
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On January 31 2012 06:23 ohmkerg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 06:22 dubRa wrote:
Both parties are at fault. But it's pretty scary that after you win the semi final a tournament can put you back into 4th place. it's pretty scary for a tournament to realize a player can just quit the finals while you have 20k people watching and sponsors...
They didn't even have sponsors is the biggest thing about this, imo.
Volunteers worked for months to raise the $3,000 prize pool and Stephano shit on them.
Volunteers.
[Also, I don't understand people that are saying Stephano was tired because he was playing all day. He played 2 bo3s and a bo5 for Scan, and 1 bo5 for ONOG. I play more than that every day.]
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On January 31 2012 06:21 CallousCarter wrote:
I don't like arguments based on "professionalism" because it's such an ambiguous term. In my humble opinion, shit happens, lets just let it go.
True but terms like "unsportsmanlike conduct" are also incredibly vague and pretty much every major sporting league on the planet (including Korea's BW/SC2 leagues, remember) punishes unsportsmanlike conduct. It all boils down to the fact that competing in somebody's tournament for their money is a privilege and not a right.
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I think TL making a headline off of this is pushing the thing a little bit to far...although those kind of problem highlights real problems in pro-gaming : Should we expect players to play tournament games past 2AM ? I don't think so.
I was watching the stream and i was disappointed when i heard he forfeited, i instantly though about many of the korean pros that often accepts to play at ridiculous hours in the night for foreigners entertainment ; /
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EPT
