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On January 31 2012 06:08 andis35 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 06:04 ohmkerg wrote:On January 31 2012 06:02 andis35 wrote:
Just like in the situation with Naniwa I am in the player's side ( this time Stephano ). He can choose when he plays and when he does not, and if he feels the conditions for him are not optimal ( being tired in this case ) he should not play. The tournament organisers should act accordingly to their rules and if there is no specific point about forfeiting, then he should just simply be awarded with 2nd place, as he rightfully earned it. He should not play in tournaments if he can't stick to their schedule. If he can't stick to their rules, why should they stick to their own? Moving him to 4th is a +1 in my book(and my book is hella long). Stephano did not violate any rules, forfeiting from tournament is not forbidden. However, I do not think there is any rule that allows tournament organisers to simply put a 2nd place player in 4th spot.
Tournament organizers can disqualify players at their own discretion.
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Sure would be nice if players would have the courtesy to not double-book themselves into events....
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On January 31 2012 06:11 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 06:09 OpticalShot wrote:
I don't see anything "terribly wrong" with either of Stephano's or ONOG's decision here. Stephano was tired and didn't want to play - so he forfeited, okay. People are making parallels with the Naniwa case, but there's a definite difference in the course of action here. Naniwa grudged on and delivered something in extremely poor taste, Stephano chose not to deliver anything at all. As an organizer, ONOG did what it could to muster up a proper "finals" for the tournament, good for them. wrong, he came late (~45min), then demanded time off immediately, and after that time off, he declared that he won't be playing anymore. at least that's what I read from the posts here. if he had "just" forfeited, I doubt there would be so much trouble.
That is not what happened at all.
At first the stream was delayed for about 45 with the text "waiting for stephano" or something like that, but it was later clarified that what had happened was that stephano had asked for a break to eat which ONOG had granted him. The delay was in getting kas vs catz ready as catz was apparently still sleeping (can't blame him of course as he expected to play second).
After this extension he played the semifinal (and won). Later when it was time for the third place match Stephano asked to play next day, and once that was denied he forfeited.
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On January 31 2012 06:14 jiggle wrote:
Dear tournament organizers:
Online tournaments are a touchy thing, and I understand you were in a difficult position. I know I don't have all the information about the situation, but your decisions here were a little funky. Was it understood and in the rules that an intentional forfeit would be punished with a demotion in the final standings? If so, I congratulate you on having a good rule set that encourages your players to be available while trying to give your fans the best show possible. If not, this is shameful! Stop screwing over your players for situations that you didn't anticipate, and never go back on the rules mid-tournament. Dealing with the unexpected is an organizer problem and not a player problem. Hopefully you've learned a little about the inherent difficulty in running a world-wide online tournament and are better prepared in the future. Best of luck to you!
maybe players shouldn't screw over tournaments, like forefitting the finals...
edit: man that typo really changed the post
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I wonder what would happen if it was not stephano but naniwa who forfeited. 
sure it was late, but it was also late for kas.
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On January 31 2012 05:54 checkSIX wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 05:51 pPingu wrote:On January 31 2012 05:49 checkSIX wrote:
It was 2.30 AM and stephano had to be in school at 8.00, so if he would wait for 3rd place finishers and then play long finals he could go sleep at best at about 5.00-6.00 and he would only get 1-2 hours of sleep. He is only a human being after all and he needs to sleep. I feel like he didn't do anything wrong and that he's being wrongly accused of being BM. I believe stephano doesn't go to school afaik he's still in secondary school as he often stated that his goal in sc2 is to make as much money before finishing secondary school/retire from gaming and going to university
Nope. He took a year out of school to play pro full time. He is currently in the millennium gaming house in france.
If he has been playing tournaments and matches all day, just give the guy a break.
If he had played terrible games people would have been complaining too.
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On January 31 2012 06:14 Proko wrote:
His behavior has always been bad. I think he should just be banned from some tournaments and just be done with it. Saying rude things is chat is one thing. Just quitting because you're tired is another. Have some respect for the people who put on tourneys, the fans and the money and effort that make your lifestyle possible.
So he should just play even he is tired? And what if he feels sick? And what if he is REALLY sick?
The question is where you draw the line. In my opinion player chooses the line and in this case Stephano decided he is not going to play.
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Having read all the posts, it seems that most people agree with both Stephano's decision and ONOG's decision. I support that both decision are quite valid. However, I feel that Stephano set up this situation by attempting to play more than one tournament at a time. There are some suggestions that the onus should be on the tournament and not the players, which I disagree with. The player should sign up for one tournament at a time as they would not be able to give their best effort for either tournament.
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On January 31 2012 06:15 rasnj wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 06:11 JustPassingBy wrote:On January 31 2012 06:09 OpticalShot wrote:
I don't see anything "terribly wrong" with either of Stephano's or ONOG's decision here. Stephano was tired and didn't want to play - so he forfeited, okay. People are making parallels with the Naniwa case, but there's a definite difference in the course of action here. Naniwa grudged on and delivered something in extremely poor taste, Stephano chose not to deliver anything at all. As an organizer, ONOG did what it could to muster up a proper "finals" for the tournament, good for them. wrong, he came late (~45min), then demanded time off immediately, and after that time off, he declared that he won't be playing anymore. at least that's what I read from the posts here. if he had "just" forfeited, I doubt there would be so much trouble. That is not what happened at all. At first the stream was delayed for about 45 with the text "waiting for stephano" or something like that, but it was later clarified that what had happened was that stephano had asked for a break to eat which ONOG had granted him. The delay was in getting kas vs catz ready as catz was apparently still sleeping (can't blame him of course as he expected to play second). After this extension he played the semifinal (and won). Later when it was time for the third place match Stephano asked to play next day, and once that was denied he forfeited.
Okay, forget what I said. Seems to have gotten the wrong idea from what was written here.
I'll edit whatever I posted on the thread.
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damn, i read a the 1st few comments and whats up with all the haters
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On January 31 2012 06:14 EdouarKiLL wrote:
I dont understand the meaning of this thread...
It was so that tournament organizers could explain the reasoning behind changing the finals and placing Stephano in 4th place.
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On January 31 2012 05:47 Lonyo wrote:
That's one of the problems when you try (as a player) to participate in too many things.
Sometimes they kind of need to, since they need the money, but at the end of the day the tournament is doing THE a service, especially when it's SCAN and ONOG which were both invitationals.
At the end of the day Stephano chose to accept to play in both, and they clashed (which he may have been aware of since he should have expected overruns and to go deep into both), and it's better than he loses out rather than fans losing out by not getting to watch a game.
It's not the first time players have had clashes, happens regularly in weekly tournaments on weekends, it's just the way things go.
I don't think it's entirely fair to blame Stephano since it wasn't malicious, he's paid the price, and in the end people got games to watch. Maybe in future he might give more consideration to what he participates in, but he's not the first to have the issue and he won't be the last.
How is it not entirely fair to blame Stephano? I don't really think it matters if his intentions were malicious or not, or if you think it was malicious or not; what matters is what he did. It is 100% his fault this happened. He chose to participate in two tournaments that were very close together and opted to not play the finals. 
I really don't care if he played while tired and just cheesed every game and lost, that's better than showing disrespect to this organization that invited him to play and worked hard to put this tournament on. At least if the finals were shitty everyone could have moved on and just said, "Oh he was tired, what a shame."
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There shouldn't be a Tyler hate thread, but he should, or TL should offer some explanation.
The hypocrisy is a little glaring on the part of TL. Putting up an informational thread like this one to explain about a player on another team, yet when a player on their team does the same thing with zero extenuating circumstance, they and the player offer nothing.
I like Tyler and would have loved to see his match vs Stephano. Tyler vs Rotterdam would have been great to watch too.
People are just mad about Stephano because he's so great at SC2 and because they are mad that "he doesn't care enough".
Only Stephano knows how much he cares and only Stephano knows how tired he was and what other obligations he had.
TL just wants to feed the beast apparently..... so enjoy! Stephano can handle it!
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TeamLiquid ESPORTS, Where's the explanation for Tyler? You can't post here with tweets from Stephano, quotes from other threads explaining one situation and completely ignore the one from one of your own players. Be fair here, what was the reason for tyler dropping out?
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Hey there, this is Roger Federer. Listen, I can't make it to the Grand Slam on time, you have to delay my match 1 hour.
Phew, I've made it to the final. Oh, but listen you Grand Slam dudes, I dont want to play on Sunday, I'm in no shape. Move the match to Monday or i won't play.
... people like this shouldn't be moved to 4th place, they should be disqualified immediately.
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On January 31 2012 06:15 skipdog172 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 06:08 andis35 wrote:On January 31 2012 06:04 ohmkerg wrote:On January 31 2012 06:02 andis35 wrote:
Just like in the situation with Naniwa I am in the player's side ( this time Stephano ). He can choose when he plays and when he does not, and if he feels the conditions for him are not optimal ( being tired in this case ) he should not play. The tournament organisers should act accordingly to their rules and if there is no specific point about forfeiting, then he should just simply be awarded with 2nd place, as he rightfully earned it. He should not play in tournaments if he can't stick to their schedule. If he can't stick to their rules, why should they stick to their own? Moving him to 4th is a +1 in my book(and my book is hella long). Stephano did not violate any rules, forfeiting from tournament is not forbidden. However, I do not think there is any rule that allows tournament organisers to simply put a 2nd place player in 4th spot. Tournament organizers can disqualify players at their own discretion.
They should not be allowed to, that is the biggest problem is sc now.
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why was they a thread for this is tl just trying to stir drama
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On January 31 2012 06:17 andis35 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 06:14 Proko wrote:
His behavior has always been bad. I think he should just be banned from some tournaments and just be done with it. Saying rude things is chat is one thing. Just quitting because you're tired is another. Have some respect for the people who put on tourneys, the fans and the money and effort that make your lifestyle possible. So he should just play even he is tired? And what if he feels sick? And what if he is REALLY sick? The question is where you draw the line. In my opinion player chooses the line and in this case Stephano decided he is not going to play.
he should play until he dies to prove that he was sick the whole time
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On January 31 2012 06:17 andis35 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 06:14 Proko wrote:
His behavior has always been bad. I think he should just be banned from some tournaments and just be done with it. Saying rude things is chat is one thing. Just quitting because you're tired is another. Have some respect for the people who put on tourneys, the fans and the money and effort that make your lifestyle possible. So he should just play even he is tired? And what if he feels sick? And what if he is REALLY sick? The question is where you draw the line. In my opinion player chooses the line and in this case Stephano decided he is not going to play.
He played another tournament right before. He should be able to schedule accordingly to his own fitness. Both schedules were out long before the tournaments started. Players should not play 2 tournaments at once or so close behind each other because otherwise things like this will happen.
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I honestly just get such a bad feeling from Stephano. He seems like such a douche to me. First the whole contractfight and now this.. I don't know, doesn't seem like a likable guy and I think Complexity should be happy not to have all his bad PR on their team.
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EPT
