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On February 01 2012 06:09 Longshank wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:03 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:02 Longshank wrote:On February 01 2012 05:56 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 05:50 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 01 2012 05:44 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 05:33 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 01 2012 05:27 Therapist. wrote:
In no other sport is one required to play into the late hours of the night. He's also a secondary school student and probably had school in the morning. Cut him a break. Slave drivers want him to stay up playing Starcraft 24 hours a day... Le Mans 24h race would like a word with you... I hate to repeat myself over and over again, but he chose to play that tournament knowing the schedule, for the winner Kas it was even worse as he was 1 timezone further, he chose to play another tournament before this one himself, he delayed the tournament himself and he only played a wimpy 11 games total that evening. You know that there is more than one driver per car in a 24h race, right? That you have 3 driver per team and car? Not that i want to defend Stephano, but the 24h race would like to be left out of it, because its a bad example.  Grab another example then. But the drivers only take breaks, and the best ones drive up to 14 hours out of those 24. Also, the point is not to say that we want SC2 24h a day, but THE RAPIST asked for an example of a sport where people do sports in the middle of the night. And, by necessity, a 24h race will require some driver to drive in the wee hours of the night... Good example, no? I dont need another example, i dont approve what Stephano did. 10 out of 24h btw leaves roughly 8 hours sleep, which is perfectly fine. I think he meant examples for athletes doing stuff for more than 10h+. If i change my sleep-rythm (awake at night, sleeping the day), it would be no difference for me driving at night. You know what i mean? The tennismatch which went till 4' am is the better example i think.Or the best example i can think of: Ivan Nikolic versus Goran Arsovic. A Chessmatch, which went over 20 hours, straight, without delay. And completely irrelevant to this situation. So you bolded one of the three situations. What exactly was your point again? That what happens in an Australian Open Grand Final is not even remotely comparable to a small online tournament of no importance or consequence. Had it been a Blizzcon or GSL final you can bet your ass Stephano would have played till his eyes bled.
So now its professional to shit on "smaller" tournaments, because the bigger ones (which are known to punish severly for screwing around) are.. what? Have a bigger pricemoney? Or have consequences if you screw them? You dont really make a point here for Stephano, do you?
And again. The AOGF is not the only example there. Especially the chessmatch is actually pretty comparable. And its an extreme, there are other games which are 15+h long (btw, it ended with a draw).
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On February 01 2012 06:11 Vul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:05 mcc wrote:On February 01 2012 05:58 ilikeredheads wrote:
Too all the people saying this is not a big deal or Stephano is being criticized too harshly. I dare you do the same thing at work or school. Tell your boss you are too tired to come to work because you just got off from your other job. You know today's the project deadline, but you are just too damn tired to work. If it doesn't get pushed back tomorrow, then I won't show up at all.
Life sucks. Deal with it like an adult, not some immature baby. Your analogy fails as the tournament is not his employer. An analogy is a comparison between two unlike things. A tournament may not technically be your employer in the normal sense, but it's still someone paying you to do something.
It's not paying him to do anything. It's offering an award if he wants to play.
Stephano fucked up but let's be real people. Stephano participated on his own accord to try and WIN some prize money. HE was fine playing until he secured 2nd place and decided to dip. He is not some independant contracter that was contracted to play X amount of games for the tournament.
Geez, people are so delusional about this stuff.
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On February 01 2012 06:15 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:09 Longshank wrote:On February 01 2012 06:03 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:02 Longshank wrote:On February 01 2012 05:56 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 05:50 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 01 2012 05:44 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 05:33 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 01 2012 05:27 Therapist. wrote:
In no other sport is one required to play into the late hours of the night. He's also a secondary school student and probably had school in the morning. Cut him a break. Slave drivers want him to stay up playing Starcraft 24 hours a day... Le Mans 24h race would like a word with you... I hate to repeat myself over and over again, but he chose to play that tournament knowing the schedule, for the winner Kas it was even worse as he was 1 timezone further, he chose to play another tournament before this one himself, he delayed the tournament himself and he only played a wimpy 11 games total that evening. You know that there is more than one driver per car in a 24h race, right? That you have 3 driver per team and car? Not that i want to defend Stephano, but the 24h race would like to be left out of it, because its a bad example. Grab another example then. But the drivers only take breaks, and the best ones drive up to 14 hours out of those 24. Also, the point is not to say that we want SC2 24h a day, but THE RAPIST asked for an example of a sport where people do sports in the middle of the night. And, by necessity, a 24h race will require some driver to drive in the wee hours of the night... Good example, no? I dont need another example, i dont approve what Stephano did. 10 out of 24h btw leaves roughly 8 hours sleep, which is perfectly fine. I think he meant examples for athletes doing stuff for more than 10h+. If i change my sleep-rythm (awake at night, sleeping the day), it would be no difference for me driving at night. You know what i mean? The tennismatch which went till 4' am is the better example i think.Or the best example i can think of: Ivan Nikolic versus Goran Arsovic. A Chessmatch, which went over 20 hours, straight, without delay. And completely irrelevant to this situation. So you bolded one of the three situations. What exactly was your point again? That what happens in an Australian Open Grand Final is not even remotely comparable to a small online tournament of no importance or consequence. Had it been a Blizzcon or GSL final you can bet your ass Stephano would have played till his eyes bled. So now its professional to shit on "smaller" tournaments, because the bigger ones (which are known to punish severly for screwing around) are.. what? Have a bigger pricemoney? Or have consequences if you screw them? You dont really make a point here for Stephano, do you?
Bigger rich employers should be the example and everyone should recognize slavery as an acceptable job. Work em real hard and pay them next to nothing! Proletariat uprising? What's that?
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On February 01 2012 06:15 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:09 Longshank wrote:On February 01 2012 06:03 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:02 Longshank wrote:On February 01 2012 05:56 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 05:50 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 01 2012 05:44 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 05:33 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 01 2012 05:27 Therapist. wrote:
In no other sport is one required to play into the late hours of the night. He's also a secondary school student and probably had school in the morning. Cut him a break. Slave drivers want him to stay up playing Starcraft 24 hours a day... Le Mans 24h race would like a word with you... I hate to repeat myself over and over again, but he chose to play that tournament knowing the schedule, for the winner Kas it was even worse as he was 1 timezone further, he chose to play another tournament before this one himself, he delayed the tournament himself and he only played a wimpy 11 games total that evening. You know that there is more than one driver per car in a 24h race, right? That you have 3 driver per team and car? Not that i want to defend Stephano, but the 24h race would like to be left out of it, because its a bad example. Grab another example then. But the drivers only take breaks, and the best ones drive up to 14 hours out of those 24. Also, the point is not to say that we want SC2 24h a day, but THE RAPIST asked for an example of a sport where people do sports in the middle of the night. And, by necessity, a 24h race will require some driver to drive in the wee hours of the night... Good example, no? I dont need another example, i dont approve what Stephano did. 10 out of 24h btw leaves roughly 8 hours sleep, which is perfectly fine. I think he meant examples for athletes doing stuff for more than 10h+. If i change my sleep-rythm (awake at night, sleeping the day), it would be no difference for me driving at night. You know what i mean? The tennismatch which went till 4' am is the better example i think.Or the best example i can think of: Ivan Nikolic versus Goran Arsovic. A Chessmatch, which went over 20 hours, straight, without delay. And completely irrelevant to this situation. So you bolded one of the three situations. What exactly was your point again? That what happens in an Australian Open Grand Final is not even remotely comparable to a small online tournament of no importance or consequence. Had it been a Blizzcon or GSL final you can bet your ass Stephano would have played till his eyes bled. So now its professional to shit on "smaller" tournaments, because the bigger ones (which are known to punish severly for screwing around) are.. what? Have a bigger pricemoney? Or have consequences if you screw them? You dont really make a point here for Stephano, do you? And again. The AOGF is not the only example there. Especially the chessmatch is actually pretty comparable. And its an extreme, there are other games which are 15+h long (btw, it ended with a draw).
Point me to where I said it was professional please. You said the tennis match was a good example, I said it was rubbish. That's it.
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On February 01 2012 06:08 NovaTheFeared wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:05 mcc wrote:On February 01 2012 05:58 ilikeredheads wrote:
Too all the people saying this is not a big deal or Stephano is being criticized too harshly. I dare you do the same thing at work or school. Tell your boss you are too tired to come to work because you just got off from your other job. You know today's the project deadline, but you are just too damn tired to work. If it doesn't get pushed back tomorrow, then I won't show up at all.
Life sucks. Deal with it like an adult, not some immature baby. Your analogy fails as the tournament is not his employer. Indeed, the tournament is only the person paying him to perform the task of playing.
No, his team is his employer. Prizes are no wages.
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On February 01 2012 06:21 Zairair wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:15 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:09 Longshank wrote:On February 01 2012 06:03 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:02 Longshank wrote:On February 01 2012 05:56 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 05:50 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 01 2012 05:44 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 05:33 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 01 2012 05:27 Therapist. wrote:
In no other sport is one required to play into the late hours of the night. He's also a secondary school student and probably had school in the morning. Cut him a break. Slave drivers want him to stay up playing Starcraft 24 hours a day... Le Mans 24h race would like a word with you... I hate to repeat myself over and over again, but he chose to play that tournament knowing the schedule, for the winner Kas it was even worse as he was 1 timezone further, he chose to play another tournament before this one himself, he delayed the tournament himself and he only played a wimpy 11 games total that evening. You know that there is more than one driver per car in a 24h race, right? That you have 3 driver per team and car? Not that i want to defend Stephano, but the 24h race would like to be left out of it, because its a bad example. Grab another example then. But the drivers only take breaks, and the best ones drive up to 14 hours out of those 24. Also, the point is not to say that we want SC2 24h a day, but THE RAPIST asked for an example of a sport where people do sports in the middle of the night. And, by necessity, a 24h race will require some driver to drive in the wee hours of the night... Good example, no? I dont need another example, i dont approve what Stephano did. 10 out of 24h btw leaves roughly 8 hours sleep, which is perfectly fine. I think he meant examples for athletes doing stuff for more than 10h+. If i change my sleep-rythm (awake at night, sleeping the day), it would be no difference for me driving at night. You know what i mean? The tennismatch which went till 4' am is the better example i think.Or the best example i can think of: Ivan Nikolic versus Goran Arsovic. A Chessmatch, which went over 20 hours, straight, without delay. And completely irrelevant to this situation. So you bolded one of the three situations. What exactly was your point again? That what happens in an Australian Open Grand Final is not even remotely comparable to a small online tournament of no importance or consequence. Had it been a Blizzcon or GSL final you can bet your ass Stephano would have played till his eyes bled. So now its professional to shit on "smaller" tournaments, because the bigger ones (which are known to punish severly for screwing around) are.. what? Have a bigger pricemoney? Or have consequences if you screw them? You dont really make a point here for Stephano, do you? Bigger rich employers should be the example and everyone should recognize slavery as an acceptable job. Work em real hard and pay them next to nothing! Proletariat uprising? What's that?
On the contrary. If i as an employee take too many jobs at once, working twentytwelve shifts a week, employers should be supportive. Because it isnt my fault for being overworked, right?
Maybe my english isnt good enough, i seemingly dont get your answer right, because if i would, it wouldnt look that stupid.
edit
Point me to where I said it was professional please. You said the tennis match was a good example, I said it was rubbish. That's it.
Okay, point taken, you are right. Its not really easy to get an objective answer here, so.. Yeah, i misunderstood you.
But i also said the chessmatch is an even better example.
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On February 01 2012 06:18 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:11 Vul wrote:On February 01 2012 06:05 mcc wrote:On February 01 2012 05:58 ilikeredheads wrote:
Too all the people saying this is not a big deal or Stephano is being criticized too harshly. I dare you do the same thing at work or school. Tell your boss you are too tired to come to work because you just got off from your other job. You know today's the project deadline, but you are just too damn tired to work. If it doesn't get pushed back tomorrow, then I won't show up at all.
Life sucks. Deal with it like an adult, not some immature baby. Your analogy fails as the tournament is not his employer. An analogy is a comparison between two unlike things. A tournament may not technically be your employer in the normal sense, but it's still someone paying you to do something. It's not paying him to do anything. It's offering an award if he wants to play. Stephano fucked up but let's be real people. Stephano participated on his own accord to try and WIN some prize money. HE was fine playing until he secured 2nd place and decided to dip. He is not some independant contracter that was contracted to play X amount of games for the tournament. Geez, people are so delusional about this stuff.
If you think it's realistic that dipping out right before finals doesn't break an explicit or implicit obligation then you're also delusional.
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On February 01 2012 06:11 Vul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:05 mcc wrote:On February 01 2012 05:58 ilikeredheads wrote:
Too all the people saying this is not a big deal or Stephano is being criticized too harshly. I dare you do the same thing at work or school. Tell your boss you are too tired to come to work because you just got off from your other job. You know today's the project deadline, but you are just too damn tired to work. If it doesn't get pushed back tomorrow, then I won't show up at all.
Life sucks. Deal with it like an adult, not some immature baby. Your analogy fails as the tournament is not his employer. An analogy is a comparison between two unlike things. A tournament may not technically be your employer in the normal sense, but it's still someone paying you to do something.
Analogy is comparison between things that are similar in relevant sense. Since tournament is not your employer and is not even paying you to do anything. Prizes are no wages, but incentives (like tax deductions or bonus). So no tournament is not paying you to do anything as in most tournaments most players do not get anything whatsoever. This alone shows that the analogy fails as there is no relevant similarity between pay and prize.
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On February 01 2012 06:18 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:11 Vul wrote:On February 01 2012 06:05 mcc wrote:On February 01 2012 05:58 ilikeredheads wrote:
Too all the people saying this is not a big deal or Stephano is being criticized too harshly. I dare you do the same thing at work or school. Tell your boss you are too tired to come to work because you just got off from your other job. You know today's the project deadline, but you are just too damn tired to work. If it doesn't get pushed back tomorrow, then I won't show up at all.
Life sucks. Deal with it like an adult, not some immature baby. Your analogy fails as the tournament is not his employer. An analogy is a comparison between two unlike things. A tournament may not technically be your employer in the normal sense, but it's still someone paying you to do something. It's not paying him to do anything. It's offering an award if he wants to play. Stephano fucked up but let's be real people. Stephano participated on his own accord to try and WIN some prize money. HE was fine playing until he secured 2nd place and decided to dip. He is not some independant contracter that was contracted to play X amount of games for the tournament. Geez, people are so delusional about this stuff.
Well, he can't be legally threatened if that's your point. Still, fans and organizers have all the right to crucify him for having acted like an immature, unprofessional, spoiled brat... yet again. Let the roast continue!
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On February 01 2012 06:24 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:21 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:15 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:09 Longshank wrote:On February 01 2012 06:03 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:02 Longshank wrote:On February 01 2012 05:56 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 05:50 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 01 2012 05:44 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 05:33 Ghanburighan wrote:
[quote]
Le Mans 24h race would like a word with you...
I hate to repeat myself over and over again, but he chose to play that tournament knowing the schedule, for the winner Kas it was even worse as he was 1 timezone further, he chose to play another tournament before this one himself, he delayed the tournament himself and he only played a wimpy 11 games total that evening. You know that there is more than one driver per car in a 24h race, right? That you have 3 driver per team and car? Not that i want to defend Stephano, but the 24h race would like to be left out of it, because its a bad example. Grab another example then. But the drivers only take breaks, and the best ones drive up to 14 hours out of those 24. Also, the point is not to say that we want SC2 24h a day, but THE RAPIST asked for an example of a sport where people do sports in the middle of the night. And, by necessity, a 24h race will require some driver to drive in the wee hours of the night... Good example, no? I dont need another example, i dont approve what Stephano did. 10 out of 24h btw leaves roughly 8 hours sleep, which is perfectly fine. I think he meant examples for athletes doing stuff for more than 10h+. If i change my sleep-rythm (awake at night, sleeping the day), it would be no difference for me driving at night. You know what i mean? The tennismatch which went till 4' am is the better example i think.Or the best example i can think of: Ivan Nikolic versus Goran Arsovic. A Chessmatch, which went over 20 hours, straight, without delay. And completely irrelevant to this situation. So you bolded one of the three situations. What exactly was your point again? That what happens in an Australian Open Grand Final is not even remotely comparable to a small online tournament of no importance or consequence. Had it been a Blizzcon or GSL final you can bet your ass Stephano would have played till his eyes bled. So now its professional to shit on "smaller" tournaments, because the bigger ones (which are known to punish severly for screwing around) are.. what? Have a bigger pricemoney? Or have consequences if you screw them? You dont really make a point here for Stephano, do you? Bigger rich employers should be the example and everyone should recognize slavery as an acceptable job. Work em real hard and pay them next to nothing! Proletariat uprising? What's that? On the contrary. If i as an employee take too many jobs at once, working twentytwelve shifts a week, employers should be supportive. Because it isnt my fault for being overworked, right? Maybe my english isnt good enough, i seemingly dont get your answer right, because if i would, it wouldnt look that stupid.
Whether you side with the bourgeois or the proletariat, is not hard science.
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On February 01 2012 06:12 s4life wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:03 mcc wrote:On February 01 2012 05:52 s4life wrote:On February 01 2012 05:49 mcc wrote:On February 01 2012 05:13 s4life wrote:On February 01 2012 05:11 Otolia wrote:On February 01 2012 05:05 drgoats wrote:On February 01 2012 04:57 s4life wrote:On February 01 2012 04:36 Auren wrote:On February 01 2012 04:24 s4life wrote:
Is this still going on? I wouldn't be surprised if some people went full retard over this and tried to justify Stephano's actions. He deserves a few bans in the next LAN tournaments imho. You probably shouldn't read the thread lol. There were some people even praising him for it and saying they gained respect for him for forfeiting the finals of a tournament. Oh wow, that's pretty f-ed up. I probably should stay away from this then heh. I feel e-sports has waaaaays to go in order to become legit. I mean if this shit happens without any serious repercussions, sponsors wouldn't exactly feel compelled to invest in prize money in tournaments if the participating players could just choose to log off before playing the finals. chao. Well he was offered the opportunity to play right away if I recall but he passed on it. (the guy above me beat me to it) Even if he wasn't given that opportunity, I would have told him to go rest for an hour and I will contact him when his match is ready. There are ways to overcome his tiredness and to continue. As his friend I would have realized the significance of playing that match, not only because of what he can win but also so that we can avoid drama like this. Stephano doesn't care about Drama, he never has, he never will. When you see him for real you wonder how he can play that fast and be so stoned ... Apparently, that's not the only thing he doesn't care for... Which just shows he is better adjusted than all of us. Sure, if you don't care for anything you are the best adjusted person in the world. Logic applied vacuously in this case heh. You can still be a total asshole though. It's a big jump from not caring about drama and bunch of forum posters to everything. I am just using your -bogus- argument and make an extreme example out of it. Being better adjusted isn't really relevant to the discussion.
It is not relevant to the discussion, it is relevant to the metadiscussion about whether this discussion is nonsense
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I personally don't like the idea of 'putting the fans first', as the players are the people who make the game what it is. Their lives as a human being should be respected, some people seem to forget that these guys have things to do outside of starcraft.
Maybe it could be a healthy idea to look at this and take it as a learning experience. If the tournament could potentially run late in some players timezones (as it did in this case), maybe look into changing the format and/or broadcast schedule?
Hopefully by the time the next tournament comes round I will be able to watch it and see how they improve
(p.s. It would have been nice for Stephano to play, but all we can do now is make sure things like this don't happen in the future)
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On February 01 2012 06:25 Vul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:18 crms wrote:On February 01 2012 06:11 Vul wrote:On February 01 2012 06:05 mcc wrote:On February 01 2012 05:58 ilikeredheads wrote:
Too all the people saying this is not a big deal or Stephano is being criticized too harshly. I dare you do the same thing at work or school. Tell your boss you are too tired to come to work because you just got off from your other job. You know today's the project deadline, but you are just too damn tired to work. If it doesn't get pushed back tomorrow, then I won't show up at all.
Life sucks. Deal with it like an adult, not some immature baby. Your analogy fails as the tournament is not his employer. An analogy is a comparison between two unlike things. A tournament may not technically be your employer in the normal sense, but it's still someone paying you to do something. It's not paying him to do anything. It's offering an award if he wants to play. Stephano fucked up but let's be real people. Stephano participated on his own accord to try and WIN some prize money. HE was fine playing until he secured 2nd place and decided to dip. He is not some independant contracter that was contracted to play X amount of games for the tournament. Geez, people are so delusional about this stuff. If you think it's realistic that dipping out right before finals doesn't break an explicit or implicit obligation then you're also delusional.
I said stephano fucked up... I'm just trying to wade through the terrible arguments. I'm in support of Stephano messing up but it doesn't mean I have to like the piss poor analogies and crappy arguments from that side.
The bigger issue once you get over the fact stephano fucked up is the decision by the tournament. I am adamantly against their decision to mess with the rankings arbitrarily. I'd rather they just had the balls and DQ'd stephano. Just picking a random rank position for him (after he earned 2nd) based on how much they feel like punishing him is stupid. A tournament should never be able to assign outcomes (1st, 2nd, 3rd etc.) on a whim, it sacrifices the integrity of the tournament.
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On February 01 2012 06:25 Vul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:18 crms wrote:On February 01 2012 06:11 Vul wrote:On February 01 2012 06:05 mcc wrote:On February 01 2012 05:58 ilikeredheads wrote:
Too all the people saying this is not a big deal or Stephano is being criticized too harshly. I dare you do the same thing at work or school. Tell your boss you are too tired to come to work because you just got off from your other job. You know today's the project deadline, but you are just too damn tired to work. If it doesn't get pushed back tomorrow, then I won't show up at all.
Life sucks. Deal with it like an adult, not some immature baby. Your analogy fails as the tournament is not his employer. An analogy is a comparison between two unlike things. A tournament may not technically be your employer in the normal sense, but it's still someone paying you to do something. It's not paying him to do anything. It's offering an award if he wants to play. Stephano fucked up but let's be real people. Stephano participated on his own accord to try and WIN some prize money. HE was fine playing until he secured 2nd place and decided to dip. He is not some independant contracter that was contracted to play X amount of games for the tournament. Geez, people are so delusional about this stuff. If you think it's realistic that dipping out right before finals doesn't break an explicit or implicit obligation then you're also delusional.
If you want to get into implicit contracts and stuff, there is also something like expectations being reasonable and conditions for breaking a contract. I am pretty sure that being physically unable to perform counts as good enough excuse in such case.
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On February 01 2012 06:28 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:12 s4life wrote:On February 01 2012 06:03 mcc wrote:On February 01 2012 05:52 s4life wrote:On February 01 2012 05:49 mcc wrote:On February 01 2012 05:13 s4life wrote:On February 01 2012 05:11 Otolia wrote:On February 01 2012 05:05 drgoats wrote:On February 01 2012 04:57 s4life wrote:On February 01 2012 04:36 Auren wrote:
[quote]
You probably shouldn't read the thread lol. There were some people even praising him for it and saying they gained respect for him for forfeiting the finals of a tournament. Oh wow, that's pretty f-ed up. I probably should stay away from this then heh. I feel e-sports has waaaaays to go in order to become legit. I mean if this shit happens without any serious repercussions, sponsors wouldn't exactly feel compelled to invest in prize money in tournaments if the participating players could just choose to log off before playing the finals. chao. Well he was offered the opportunity to play right away if I recall but he passed on it. (the guy above me beat me to it) Even if he wasn't given that opportunity, I would have told him to go rest for an hour and I will contact him when his match is ready. There are ways to overcome his tiredness and to continue. As his friend I would have realized the significance of playing that match, not only because of what he can win but also so that we can avoid drama like this. Stephano doesn't care about Drama, he never has, he never will. When you see him for real you wonder how he can play that fast and be so stoned ... Apparently, that's not the only thing he doesn't care for... Which just shows he is better adjusted than all of us. Sure, if you don't care for anything you are the best adjusted person in the world. Logic applied vacuously in this case heh. You can still be a total asshole though. It's a big jump from not caring about drama and bunch of forum posters to everything. I am just using your -bogus- argument and make an extreme example out of it. Being better adjusted isn't really relevant to the discussion. It is not relevant to the discussion, it is relevant to the metadiscussion about whether this discussion is nonsense
You are making a redundant point. All discussions in the internet are nonsensical .. heh. Still, fans have a valid reason to be upset and this is a good, nonviolent way to go about it;)
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On February 01 2012 06:27 Zairair wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:24 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:21 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:15 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:09 Longshank wrote:On February 01 2012 06:03 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:02 Longshank wrote:On February 01 2012 05:56 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 05:50 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 01 2012 05:44 m4inbrain wrote:[quote] You know that there is more than one driver per car in a 24h race, right? That you have 3 driver per team and car? Not that i want to defend Stephano, but the 24h race would like to be left out of it, because its a bad example. Grab another example then. But the drivers only take breaks, and the best ones drive up to 14 hours out of those 24. Also, the point is not to say that we want SC2 24h a day, but THE RAPIST asked for an example of a sport where people do sports in the middle of the night. And, by necessity, a 24h race will require some driver to drive in the wee hours of the night... Good example, no? I dont need another example, i dont approve what Stephano did. 10 out of 24h btw leaves roughly 8 hours sleep, which is perfectly fine. I think he meant examples for athletes doing stuff for more than 10h+. If i change my sleep-rythm (awake at night, sleeping the day), it would be no difference for me driving at night. You know what i mean? The tennismatch which went till 4' am is the better example i think.Or the best example i can think of: Ivan Nikolic versus Goran Arsovic. A Chessmatch, which went over 20 hours, straight, without delay. And completely irrelevant to this situation. So you bolded one of the three situations. What exactly was your point again? That what happens in an Australian Open Grand Final is not even remotely comparable to a small online tournament of no importance or consequence. Had it been a Blizzcon or GSL final you can bet your ass Stephano would have played till his eyes bled. So now its professional to shit on "smaller" tournaments, because the bigger ones (which are known to punish severly for screwing around) are.. what? Have a bigger pricemoney? Or have consequences if you screw them? You dont really make a point here for Stephano, do you? Bigger rich employers should be the example and everyone should recognize slavery as an acceptable job. Work em real hard and pay them next to nothing! Proletariat uprising? What's that? On the contrary. If i as an employee take too many jobs at once, working twentytwelve shifts a week, employers should be supportive. Because it isnt my fault for being overworked, right? Maybe my english isnt good enough, i seemingly dont get your answer right, because if i would, it wouldnt look that stupid. Whether you side with the bourgeois or the proletariat, is not hard science.
Where did i side? I admit it now, i dont get what youre saying, and i think my english is the reason (and i mean that honestly - i know what bourgeoisie is, and proletariat, but not where i did side with any of them, so i assume there is some figure of speech or something that im missing).
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On February 01 2012 06:29 FT628 wrote:I personally don't like the idea of 'putting the fans first', as the players are the people who make the game what it is. Their lives as a human being should be respected, some people seem to forget that these guys have things to do outside of starcraft. Maybe it could be a healthy idea to look at this and take it as a learning experience. If the tournament could potentially run late in some players timezones (as it did in this case), maybe look into changing the format and/or broadcast schedule? Hopefully by the time the next tournament comes round I will be able to watch it and see how they improve (p.s. It would have been nice for Stephano to play, but all we can do now is make sure things like this don't happen in the future)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=302498
Pretty sure the time for the finals was posted...they even delayed it 45 minutes for Stephano. If you can't play after bedtime, you shouldn't take an invite slot from someone else.
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On February 01 2012 06:30 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:25 Vul wrote:On February 01 2012 06:18 crms wrote:On February 01 2012 06:11 Vul wrote:On February 01 2012 06:05 mcc wrote:On February 01 2012 05:58 ilikeredheads wrote:
Too all the people saying this is not a big deal or Stephano is being criticized too harshly. I dare you do the same thing at work or school. Tell your boss you are too tired to come to work because you just got off from your other job. You know today's the project deadline, but you are just too damn tired to work. If it doesn't get pushed back tomorrow, then I won't show up at all.
Life sucks. Deal with it like an adult, not some immature baby. Your analogy fails as the tournament is not his employer. An analogy is a comparison between two unlike things. A tournament may not technically be your employer in the normal sense, but it's still someone paying you to do something. It's not paying him to do anything. It's offering an award if he wants to play. Stephano fucked up but let's be real people. Stephano participated on his own accord to try and WIN some prize money. HE was fine playing until he secured 2nd place and decided to dip. He is not some independant contracter that was contracted to play X amount of games for the tournament. Geez, people are so delusional about this stuff. If you think it's realistic that dipping out right before finals doesn't break an explicit or implicit obligation then you're also delusional. If you want to get into implicit contracts and stuff, there is also something like expectations being reasonable and conditions for breaking a contract. I am pretty sure that being physically unable to perform counts as good enough excuse in such case.
I don't think being sleepy counts as a good enough excuse in this case in all honesty. Being sleepy is the players fault for not planing accordingly. As the poster above me stated, Stephano knew beforehand the time the finals were supposed to occur. In the best of cases he's unprofessional, in the worst, he's a total asshole for premeditatedly take some other player's spot knowing he wasn't gonna play the final.
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On February 01 2012 06:31 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:27 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:24 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:21 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:15 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:09 Longshank wrote:On February 01 2012 06:03 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:02 Longshank wrote:On February 01 2012 05:56 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 05:50 Ghanburighan wrote:
[quote]
Grab another example then. But the drivers only take breaks, and the best ones drive up to 14 hours out of those 24. Also, the point is not to say that we want SC2 24h a day, but THE RAPIST asked for an example of a sport where people do sports in the middle of the night. And, by necessity, a 24h race will require some driver to drive in the wee hours of the night... Good example, no?
I dont need another example, i dont approve what Stephano did. 10 out of 24h btw leaves roughly 8 hours sleep, which is perfectly fine. I think he meant examples for athletes doing stuff for more than 10h+. If i change my sleep-rythm (awake at night, sleeping the day), it would be no difference for me driving at night. You know what i mean? The tennismatch which went till 4' am is the better example i think.Or the best example i can think of: Ivan Nikolic versus Goran Arsovic. A Chessmatch, which went over 20 hours, straight, without delay. And completely irrelevant to this situation. So you bolded one of the three situations. What exactly was your point again? That what happens in an Australian Open Grand Final is not even remotely comparable to a small online tournament of no importance or consequence. Had it been a Blizzcon or GSL final you can bet your ass Stephano would have played till his eyes bled. So now its professional to shit on "smaller" tournaments, because the bigger ones (which are known to punish severly for screwing around) are.. what? Have a bigger pricemoney? Or have consequences if you screw them? You dont really make a point here for Stephano, do you? Bigger rich employers should be the example and everyone should recognize slavery as an acceptable job. Work em real hard and pay them next to nothing! Proletariat uprising? What's that? On the contrary. If i as an employee take too many jobs at once, working twentytwelve shifts a week, employers should be supportive. Because it isnt my fault for being overworked, right? Maybe my english isnt good enough, i seemingly dont get your answer right, because if i would, it wouldnt look that stupid. Whether you side with the bourgeois or the proletariat, is not hard science. Where did i side? I admit it now, i dont get what youre saying, and i think my english is the reason (and i mean that honestly - i know what bourgeoisie is, and proletariat, but not where i did side with any of them, so i assume there is some figure of speech or something that im missing).
You either blame the problems on the working class or you blame it on the ruling class. How you decide is based on how you think, not how things are or should be. Of course most Western society aims to be that 1% but who can blame workers for trying? Why should we let that man from the 99% into the 1%? What if he doesn't act like the 1%?
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On February 01 2012 06:35 Zairair wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:31 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:27 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:24 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:21 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:15 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:09 Longshank wrote:On February 01 2012 06:03 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:02 Longshank wrote:On February 01 2012 05:56 m4inbrain wrote:[quote] I dont need another example, i dont approve what Stephano did. 10 out of 24h btw leaves roughly 8 hours sleep, which is perfectly fine. I think he meant examples for athletes doing stuff for more than 10h+. If i change my sleep-rythm (awake at night, sleeping the day), it would be no difference for me driving at night. You know what i mean? The tennismatch which went till 4' am is the better example i think.Or the best example i can think of: Ivan Nikolic versus Goran Arsovic. A Chessmatch, which went over 20 hours, straight, without delay. And completely irrelevant to this situation. So you bolded one of the three situations. What exactly was your point again? That what happens in an Australian Open Grand Final is not even remotely comparable to a small online tournament of no importance or consequence. Had it been a Blizzcon or GSL final you can bet your ass Stephano would have played till his eyes bled. So now its professional to shit on "smaller" tournaments, because the bigger ones (which are known to punish severly for screwing around) are.. what? Have a bigger pricemoney? Or have consequences if you screw them? You dont really make a point here for Stephano, do you? Bigger rich employers should be the example and everyone should recognize slavery as an acceptable job. Work em real hard and pay them next to nothing! Proletariat uprising? What's that? On the contrary. If i as an employee take too many jobs at once, working twentytwelve shifts a week, employers should be supportive. Because it isnt my fault for being overworked, right? Maybe my english isnt good enough, i seemingly dont get your answer right, because if i would, it wouldnt look that stupid. Whether you side with the bourgeois or the proletariat, is not hard science. Where did i side? I admit it now, i dont get what youre saying, and i think my english is the reason (and i mean that honestly - i know what bourgeoisie is, and proletariat, but not where i did side with any of them, so i assume there is some figure of speech or something that im missing). You either blame the problems on the working class or you blame it on the ruling class. How you decide is based on how you think, not how things are or should be. Of course most Western society aims to be that 1% but who can blame workers for trying?
Well, then tell me, who is to blame if you overestimate yourself?
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EPT
