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On February 01 2012 06:37 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:35 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:31 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:27 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:24 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:21 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:15 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:09 Longshank wrote:On February 01 2012 06:03 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:02 Longshank wrote:
[quote]
And completely irrelevant to this situation. So you bolded one of the three situations. What exactly was your point again? That what happens in an Australian Open Grand Final is not even remotely comparable to a small online tournament of no importance or consequence. Had it been a Blizzcon or GSL final you can bet your ass Stephano would have played till his eyes bled. So now its professional to shit on "smaller" tournaments, because the bigger ones (which are known to punish severly for screwing around) are.. what? Have a bigger pricemoney? Or have consequences if you screw them? You dont really make a point here for Stephano, do you? Bigger rich employers should be the example and everyone should recognize slavery as an acceptable job. Work em real hard and pay them next to nothing! Proletariat uprising? What's that? On the contrary. If i as an employee take too many jobs at once, working twentytwelve shifts a week, employers should be supportive. Because it isnt my fault for being overworked, right? Maybe my english isnt good enough, i seemingly dont get your answer right, because if i would, it wouldnt look that stupid. Whether you side with the bourgeois or the proletariat, is not hard science. Where did i side? I admit it now, i dont get what youre saying, and i think my english is the reason (and i mean that honestly - i know what bourgeoisie is, and proletariat, but not where i did side with any of them, so i assume there is some figure of speech or something that im missing). You either blame the problems on the working class or you blame it on the ruling class. How you decide is based on how you think, not how things are or should be. Of course most Western society aims to be that 1% but who can blame workers for trying? Well, then tell me, who is to blame if you overestimate yourself?
That's your own opinion. Have you ever been to China? Vietnam? North Korea? Try living there for a year. Become more holistic in your worldview.
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On February 01 2012 06:32 mathsucks wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:29 FT628 wrote:I personally don't like the idea of 'putting the fans first', as the players are the people who make the game what it is. Their lives as a human being should be respected, some people seem to forget that these guys have things to do outside of starcraft. Maybe it could be a healthy idea to look at this and take it as a learning experience. If the tournament could potentially run late in some players timezones (as it did in this case), maybe look into changing the format and/or broadcast schedule? Hopefully by the time the next tournament comes round I will be able to watch it and see how they improve  (p.s. It would have been nice for Stephano to play, but all we can do now is make sure things like this don't happen in the future) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=302498Pretty sure the time for the finals was posted...they even delayed it 45 minutes for Stephano. If you can't play after bedtime, you shouldn't take an invite slot from someone else.
Pretty sure isn't certain, I couldn't find anything related to fixed match times, never mind the finals. Also some of the tournament admins' posts in the thread you linked, were very vague of times, giving rough estimates of when the games would take place, so I would be surprised if they were making such posts if they did in fact have have set match times.
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On February 01 2012 06:38 Zairair wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:37 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:35 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:31 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:27 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:24 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:21 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:15 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:09 Longshank wrote:On February 01 2012 06:03 m4inbrain wrote:
[quote]
So you bolded one of the three situations. What exactly was your point again?
That what happens in an Australian Open Grand Final is not even remotely comparable to a small online tournament of no importance or consequence. Had it been a Blizzcon or GSL final you can bet your ass Stephano would have played till his eyes bled. So now its professional to shit on "smaller" tournaments, because the bigger ones (which are known to punish severly for screwing around) are.. what? Have a bigger pricemoney? Or have consequences if you screw them? You dont really make a point here for Stephano, do you? Bigger rich employers should be the example and everyone should recognize slavery as an acceptable job. Work em real hard and pay them next to nothing! Proletariat uprising? What's that? On the contrary. If i as an employee take too many jobs at once, working twentytwelve shifts a week, employers should be supportive. Because it isnt my fault for being overworked, right? Maybe my english isnt good enough, i seemingly dont get your answer right, because if i would, it wouldnt look that stupid. Whether you side with the bourgeois or the proletariat, is not hard science. Where did i side? I admit it now, i dont get what youre saying, and i think my english is the reason (and i mean that honestly - i know what bourgeoisie is, and proletariat, but not where i did side with any of them, so i assume there is some figure of speech or something that im missing). You either blame the problems on the working class or you blame it on the ruling class. How you decide is based on how you think, not how things are or should be. Of course most Western society aims to be that 1% but who can blame workers for trying? Well, then tell me, who is to blame if you overestimate yourself? That's your own opinion. Have you ever been to China? Vietnam? North Korea? Try living there for a year. Become more holistic in your worldview.
Note, he is a 62 post troll.
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On February 01 2012 06:42 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:38 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:37 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:35 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:31 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:27 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:24 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:21 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:15 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:09 Longshank wrote:
[quote]
That what happens in an Australian Open Grand Final is not even remotely comparable to a small online tournament of no importance or consequence. Had it been a Blizzcon or GSL final you can bet your ass Stephano would have played till his eyes bled. So now its professional to shit on "smaller" tournaments, because the bigger ones (which are known to punish severly for screwing around) are.. what? Have a bigger pricemoney? Or have consequences if you screw them? You dont really make a point here for Stephano, do you? Bigger rich employers should be the example and everyone should recognize slavery as an acceptable job. Work em real hard and pay them next to nothing! Proletariat uprising? What's that? On the contrary. If i as an employee take too many jobs at once, working twentytwelve shifts a week, employers should be supportive. Because it isnt my fault for being overworked, right? Maybe my english isnt good enough, i seemingly dont get your answer right, because if i would, it wouldnt look that stupid. Whether you side with the bourgeois or the proletariat, is not hard science. Where did i side? I admit it now, i dont get what youre saying, and i think my english is the reason (and i mean that honestly - i know what bourgeoisie is, and proletariat, but not where i did side with any of them, so i assume there is some figure of speech or something that im missing). You either blame the problems on the working class or you blame it on the ruling class. How you decide is based on how you think, not how things are or should be. Of course most Western society aims to be that 1% but who can blame workers for trying? Well, then tell me, who is to blame if you overestimate yourself? That's your own opinion. Have you ever been to China? Vietnam? North Korea? Try living there for a year. Become more holistic in your worldview. Note, he is a 62 post troll.
Note, he thought le mans 24h racecars can compare to tired tournament players.
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On February 01 2012 06:38 Zairair wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:37 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:35 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:31 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:27 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:24 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:21 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:15 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:09 Longshank wrote:On February 01 2012 06:03 m4inbrain wrote:
[quote]
So you bolded one of the three situations. What exactly was your point again?
That what happens in an Australian Open Grand Final is not even remotely comparable to a small online tournament of no importance or consequence. Had it been a Blizzcon or GSL final you can bet your ass Stephano would have played till his eyes bled. So now its professional to shit on "smaller" tournaments, because the bigger ones (which are known to punish severly for screwing around) are.. what? Have a bigger pricemoney? Or have consequences if you screw them? You dont really make a point here for Stephano, do you? Bigger rich employers should be the example and everyone should recognize slavery as an acceptable job. Work em real hard and pay them next to nothing! Proletariat uprising? What's that? On the contrary. If i as an employee take too many jobs at once, working twentytwelve shifts a week, employers should be supportive. Because it isnt my fault for being overworked, right? Maybe my english isnt good enough, i seemingly dont get your answer right, because if i would, it wouldnt look that stupid. Whether you side with the bourgeois or the proletariat, is not hard science. Where did i side? I admit it now, i dont get what youre saying, and i think my english is the reason (and i mean that honestly - i know what bourgeoisie is, and proletariat, but not where i did side with any of them, so i assume there is some figure of speech or something that im missing). You either blame the problems on the working class or you blame it on the ruling class. How you decide is based on how you think, not how things are or should be. Of course most Western society aims to be that 1% but who can blame workers for trying? Well, then tell me, who is to blame if you overestimate yourself? That's your own opinion. Have you ever been to China? Vietnam? North Korea? Try living there for a year. Become more holistic in your worldview.
That didnt answer my question, so i guess you couldnt answer it without proving me right. Because you know that living in a communistic enviroment is actually completely not comparable to what happened here (he was not forced into accepting offerings).
So, again. Lets rephrase the question. Who is to blame for Stephano overestimating himself. You know. Not living in a communistic country and stuff.
Edit:
Note, he thought le mans 24h racecars can compare to tired tournament players.
Note: the 62 Post troll actually can read, and if he cant understand something due to a language barrier, he admits it. You on the other hand are too stupid to read, because i actually said you CANNOT compare these two.
Sorry, but now you just try to be one of the "elitists", and failed miserably.
Edit2: damn, failed again. I really should stop discussing stuff if im distracted. Mea culpa.
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On February 01 2012 06:43 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:38 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:37 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:35 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:31 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:27 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:24 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:21 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:15 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:09 Longshank wrote:
[quote]
That what happens in an Australian Open Grand Final is not even remotely comparable to a small online tournament of no importance or consequence. Had it been a Blizzcon or GSL final you can bet your ass Stephano would have played till his eyes bled. So now its professional to shit on "smaller" tournaments, because the bigger ones (which are known to punish severly for screwing around) are.. what? Have a bigger pricemoney? Or have consequences if you screw them? You dont really make a point here for Stephano, do you? Bigger rich employers should be the example and everyone should recognize slavery as an acceptable job. Work em real hard and pay them next to nothing! Proletariat uprising? What's that? On the contrary. If i as an employee take too many jobs at once, working twentytwelve shifts a week, employers should be supportive. Because it isnt my fault for being overworked, right? Maybe my english isnt good enough, i seemingly dont get your answer right, because if i would, it wouldnt look that stupid. Whether you side with the bourgeois or the proletariat, is not hard science. Where did i side? I admit it now, i dont get what youre saying, and i think my english is the reason (and i mean that honestly - i know what bourgeoisie is, and proletariat, but not where i did side with any of them, so i assume there is some figure of speech or something that im missing). You either blame the problems on the working class or you blame it on the ruling class. How you decide is based on how you think, not how things are or should be. Of course most Western society aims to be that 1% but who can blame workers for trying? Well, then tell me, who is to blame if you overestimate yourself? That's your own opinion. Have you ever been to China? Vietnam? North Korea? Try living there for a year. Become more holistic in your worldview. That didnt answer my question, so i guess you couldnt answer it without proving me right. Because you know that living in a communistic enviroment is actually completely not comparable to what happened here (he was not forced into accepting offerings). So, again. Lets rephrase the question. Who is to blame for Stephano overestimating himself. You know. Not living in a communistic country and stuff.
ONOG's fault. Should've postponed the match to let the spectators watch him play the finals vs Kas. I thought I could help you into the answer, but apparently I have to spell it out for you.
Edit: Note, m4inbrain, I never said you were the same person as Ghanburighan.
Sorry but I did not quote you, I quoted Ghanburighan.
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On February 01 2012 06:45 Zairair wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:43 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:38 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:37 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:35 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:31 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:27 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:24 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:21 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:15 m4inbrain wrote:
[quote]
So now its professional to shit on "smaller" tournaments, because the bigger ones (which are known to punish severly for screwing around) are.. what? Have a bigger pricemoney? Or have consequences if you screw them? You dont really make a point here for Stephano, do you?
Bigger rich employers should be the example and everyone should recognize slavery as an acceptable job. Work em real hard and pay them next to nothing! Proletariat uprising? What's that? On the contrary. If i as an employee take too many jobs at once, working twentytwelve shifts a week, employers should be supportive. Because it isnt my fault for being overworked, right? Maybe my english isnt good enough, i seemingly dont get your answer right, because if i would, it wouldnt look that stupid. Whether you side with the bourgeois or the proletariat, is not hard science. Where did i side? I admit it now, i dont get what youre saying, and i think my english is the reason (and i mean that honestly - i know what bourgeoisie is, and proletariat, but not where i did side with any of them, so i assume there is some figure of speech or something that im missing). You either blame the problems on the working class or you blame it on the ruling class. How you decide is based on how you think, not how things are or should be. Of course most Western society aims to be that 1% but who can blame workers for trying? Well, then tell me, who is to blame if you overestimate yourself? That's your own opinion. Have you ever been to China? Vietnam? North Korea? Try living there for a year. Become more holistic in your worldview. That didnt answer my question, so i guess you couldnt answer it without proving me right. Because you know that living in a communistic enviroment is actually completely not comparable to what happened here (he was not forced into accepting offerings). So, again. Lets rephrase the question. Who is to blame for Stephano overestimating himself. You know. Not living in a communistic country and stuff. ONOG's fault. Should've postponed the match to let the spectators watch him play the finals vs Kas.
Ah. Okay, so the complete tournament organisation should pay for stephano overestimating himself. Well that sounds smart, because you know, Mr Bitter and the staff of ONOG doesnt have other reliabilities, because theyre getting paid for what they do. Right? Oh wait, no. Theyre not. They did it on their own time. Ah and the barcrafts, they should just gather the next day for just the finals, right? Because, thats what you do, if one guy is to stupid to estimate what hes capable of.
Yeah, sounds about right. And yeah, ->i<- am the one trolling here. Sure.
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On February 01 2012 06:48 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:45 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:43 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:38 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:37 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:35 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:31 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:27 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:24 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:21 Zairair wrote:
[quote]
Bigger rich employers should be the example and everyone should recognize slavery as an acceptable job. Work em real hard and pay them next to nothing! Proletariat uprising? What's that? On the contrary. If i as an employee take too many jobs at once, working twentytwelve shifts a week, employers should be supportive. Because it isnt my fault for being overworked, right? Maybe my english isnt good enough, i seemingly dont get your answer right, because if i would, it wouldnt look that stupid. Whether you side with the bourgeois or the proletariat, is not hard science. Where did i side? I admit it now, i dont get what youre saying, and i think my english is the reason (and i mean that honestly - i know what bourgeoisie is, and proletariat, but not where i did side with any of them, so i assume there is some figure of speech or something that im missing). You either blame the problems on the working class or you blame it on the ruling class. How you decide is based on how you think, not how things are or should be. Of course most Western society aims to be that 1% but who can blame workers for trying? Well, then tell me, who is to blame if you overestimate yourself? That's your own opinion. Have you ever been to China? Vietnam? North Korea? Try living there for a year. Become more holistic in your worldview. That didnt answer my question, so i guess you couldnt answer it without proving me right. Because you know that living in a communistic enviroment is actually completely not comparable to what happened here (he was not forced into accepting offerings). So, again. Lets rephrase the question. Who is to blame for Stephano overestimating himself. You know. Not living in a communistic country and stuff. ONOG's fault. Should've postponed the match to let the spectators watch him play the finals vs Kas. Ah. Okay, so the complete tournament organisation should pay for stephano overestimating himself. Well that sounds smart, because you know, Mr Bitter and the staff of ONOG doesnt have other reliabilities, because theyre getting paid for what they do. Right? Oh wait, no. Theyre not. They did it on their own time. Ah and the barcrafts, they should just gather the next day for just the finals, right? Because, thats what you do, if one guy is to stupid to estimate what hes capable of. Yeah, sounds about right. And yeah, ->i<- am the one trolling here. Sure.
Ah. Okay so if one slave is okay, slavery is just okay in general. It's for our shrill entertainment!!! Let's reverse the Civil Rights Movement of the 20th century and reenact it. Yup, sounds terrific. I'm the one telling everyone else that their trolls. Every time. Sure. Each my posts includes that word.
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is boils down to don't allow players in your tournaments to play 2 tournaments at the same time.
1: it can end in siturations like this.
2: it will delay either or both of the tournaments due to a match in either of the tournaments will get delayed and the tournaments as a result will end up in really late tournaments just as this.
some basic rules should be written by both tournament orgas in order to avoid these siturations.
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On February 01 2012 06:50 Zairair wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:48 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:45 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:43 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:38 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:37 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:35 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:31 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:27 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:24 m4inbrain wrote:
[quote]
On the contrary. If i as an employee take too many jobs at once, working twentytwelve shifts a week, employers should be supportive. Because it isnt my fault for being overworked, right?
Maybe my english isnt good enough, i seemingly dont get your answer right, because if i would, it wouldnt look that stupid. Whether you side with the bourgeois or the proletariat, is not hard science. Where did i side? I admit it now, i dont get what youre saying, and i think my english is the reason (and i mean that honestly - i know what bourgeoisie is, and proletariat, but not where i did side with any of them, so i assume there is some figure of speech or something that im missing). You either blame the problems on the working class or you blame it on the ruling class. How you decide is based on how you think, not how things are or should be. Of course most Western society aims to be that 1% but who can blame workers for trying? Well, then tell me, who is to blame if you overestimate yourself? That's your own opinion. Have you ever been to China? Vietnam? North Korea? Try living there for a year. Become more holistic in your worldview. That didnt answer my question, so i guess you couldnt answer it without proving me right. Because you know that living in a communistic enviroment is actually completely not comparable to what happened here (he was not forced into accepting offerings). So, again. Lets rephrase the question. Who is to blame for Stephano overestimating himself. You know. Not living in a communistic country and stuff. ONOG's fault. Should've postponed the match to let the spectators watch him play the finals vs Kas. Ah. Okay, so the complete tournament organisation should pay for stephano overestimating himself. Well that sounds smart, because you know, Mr Bitter and the staff of ONOG doesnt have other reliabilities, because theyre getting paid for what they do. Right? Oh wait, no. Theyre not. They did it on their own time. Ah and the barcrafts, they should just gather the next day for just the finals, right? Because, thats what you do, if one guy is to stupid to estimate what hes capable of. Yeah, sounds about right. And yeah, ->i<- am the one trolling here. Sure. Ah. Okay so if one slave is okay, slavery is just okay in general. Let's reverse the Civil Rights Movement of the 20th century and reenact it. Yup, sounds terrific. I'm the one telling everyone else that their trolls. Every time. Sure. Each my posts includes that word.
Why is he being a slave when he decides to sign up for two tournaments? If i chose to work overhours, so i can finish friday earlier, am i a slave on thursday?
Thats just a stupid thing to say. A slave does not have a choice, stephano couldve chose to not participate two tournaments at once. He did not. If i go to my chef (or boss) tomorrow, tell him: "well boss, send the rest of the team home, i can test this gearbox by myself from here on" - and then fail to deliver the results, am i a slave or did i overestimate myself?
I dont get where the word "slave" comes from without anyone being forced to accept an invitation?
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I think at this point in the thread it can be easily stated that community consensus is "Stephano messed up big time". The question now is how do we stop this from ever happening in any tournament again? What kind of rules can a tournament have that makes this outcome next to impossible? I wouldnt mind a one tourney a day clause under penalty of forfeit but could it go even further? Could all the major tourneys combine into a league so players have to follow the rules or be ousted from e-sports entirely? Could such a league impose fines or suspensions?
All of these are interesting ideas I think. My impression of Stephano's attitude is that he feels invincible wrapped up in his skill and French nationalism. I don't think small measures will be enough when dealing with such a diverse global community.
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On February 01 2012 06:56 Velocirapture wrote:
I think at this point in the thread it can be easily stated that community consensus is "Stephano messed up big time". The question now is how do we stop this from ever happening in any tournament again? What kind of rules can a tournament have that makes this outcome next to impossible? I wouldnt mind a one tourney a day clause under penalty of forfeit but could it go even further? Could all the major tourneys combine into a league so players have to follow the rules or be ousted from e-sports entirely? Could such a league impose fines or suspensions?
All of these are interesting ideas I think. My impression of Stephano's attitude is that he feels invincible wrapped up in his skill and French nationalism. I don't think small measures will be enough when dealing with such a diverse global community.
Works for small tournaments (the "just one a day"-clause) - for bigger tournaments, i would even like to see a penalty fee.
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I think foreigners need coaches like the koreans have. Imagine how pissed off/disappointed your coach would be if you pulled this shit lol
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didnt Stephano double booked again today?
eOSL Winter' 2012 RO4
and msi pro-cup #6
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On February 01 2012 06:59 gosuRob wrote:
I think foreigners need coaches like the koreans have. Imagine how pissed off/disappointed your coach would be if you pulled this shit lol
Well you wouldnt care, obviously. Whats the difference between disappointment from a coach and from fans? At least for me, there would be none. And if you dont care about your fans, you dont care about a coach either.
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On February 01 2012 06:55 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:50 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:48 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:45 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:43 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:38 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:37 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:35 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:31 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:27 Zairair wrote:
[quote]
Whether you side with the bourgeois or the proletariat, is not hard science. Where did i side? I admit it now, i dont get what youre saying, and i think my english is the reason (and i mean that honestly - i know what bourgeoisie is, and proletariat, but not where i did side with any of them, so i assume there is some figure of speech or something that im missing). You either blame the problems on the working class or you blame it on the ruling class. How you decide is based on how you think, not how things are or should be. Of course most Western society aims to be that 1% but who can blame workers for trying? Well, then tell me, who is to blame if you overestimate yourself? That's your own opinion. Have you ever been to China? Vietnam? North Korea? Try living there for a year. Become more holistic in your worldview. That didnt answer my question, so i guess you couldnt answer it without proving me right. Because you know that living in a communistic enviroment is actually completely not comparable to what happened here (he was not forced into accepting offerings). So, again. Lets rephrase the question. Who is to blame for Stephano overestimating himself. You know. Not living in a communistic country and stuff. ONOG's fault. Should've postponed the match to let the spectators watch him play the finals vs Kas. Ah. Okay, so the complete tournament organisation should pay for stephano overestimating himself. Well that sounds smart, because you know, Mr Bitter and the staff of ONOG doesnt have other reliabilities, because theyre getting paid for what they do. Right? Oh wait, no. Theyre not. They did it on their own time. Ah and the barcrafts, they should just gather the next day for just the finals, right? Because, thats what you do, if one guy is to stupid to estimate what hes capable of. Yeah, sounds about right. And yeah, ->i<- am the one trolling here. Sure. Ah. Okay so if one slave is okay, slavery is just okay in general. Let's reverse the Civil Rights Movement of the 20th century and reenact it. Yup, sounds terrific. I'm the one telling everyone else that their trolls. Every time. Sure. Each my posts includes that word. Why is he being a slave when he decides to sign up for two tournaments? If i chose to work overhours, so i can finish friday earlier, am i a slave on thursday? Thats just a stupid thing to say. A slave does not have a choice, stephano couldve chose to not participate two tournaments at once. He did not. If i go to my chef (or boss) tomorrow, tell him: "well boss, send the rest of the team home, i can test this gearbox by myself from here on" - and then fail to deliver the results, am i a slave or did i overestimate myself? I dont get where the word "slave" comes from without anyone being forced to accept an invitation?
Slave, wage worker, food stamps, the similarities are more prevalent than your eye can see. Check out South Central LA.
It's the Chef's fault for not doing a background checking to see that you were dealing drugs as a side job and then getting exposed for it.
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On February 01 2012 07:01 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:59 gosuRob wrote:
I think foreigners need coaches like the koreans have. Imagine how pissed off/disappointed your coach would be if you pulled this shit lol Well you wouldnt care, obviously. Whats the difference between disappointment from a coach and from fans? At least for me, there would be none. And if you dont care about your fans, you dont care about a coach either.
The way I see it, you're right in the regard that if you don't care about your fans, you don't care about your coach. But the fact is that fans are easier to ignore than your coach.  (If we're talking about the Korean style where they're right beside you)
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On February 01 2012 04:52 Testuser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 04:51 Mr Showtime wrote:On February 01 2012 03:31 Longshank wrote:On February 01 2012 03:11 Jibba wrote:On February 01 2012 02:42 Longshank wrote:On February 01 2012 02:17 Jibba wrote:On February 01 2012 01:59 mcc wrote:On February 01 2012 01:41 Jibba wrote:
If it's simply about viewers, then why not replace all foreigners in tournaments with Chinese players? Put all the foreigners out of jobs. They cost more, draw less viewers and aren't as accomodating. The Divina female tournament pulled 400,000 in China. Imagine what would happen for a major prize pool.
And if you want a homegrown option, then tournaments can just feature LoL. Dumber player drama, but less tournament drama and 3x-5x the viewers.
All about viewership, right? Just because there are more profitable investments does not mean that there won't be any investors to the less profitable "niche" areas. As long as they are profitable, and that depends on viewers. So I see nothing in your post to actually challenge that assertion. I see ways it can potentially be challenged, but that is not it. It is of course more complex it is about viewers only so much as number of viewers can be counted to correlate with people buying (or positively affecting by word of "mouth") products of the sponsors. So in the end it is about conversion ratio between viewers and customers. But also note where this discussion about viewers came from. It was a response to a guy claiming that in analogy to political process voting is equivalent to posting on a forum. Others pointed out that voting is more analogous to watching content. I see no reason to make it into some tangent as it was just a response to bad analogy. EDIT: Now that I think about it I might have misunderstood you. If your post was a reaction to my post about Stephano having a lot of stream viewers then part of my response is still valid, but the rest not . I would just add that even that was meant to dispel the bad analogy with elections, not to draw any moral "ought" conclusions. What if, knowing that Stephano might cause a disruption in your tournament, you invite all of the same normal players such as Kas, Dimaga, etc. but for Stephano's spot, include a top Chinese player? My point is that you say he has leverage because of his stream numbers, but I don't think it's as much as you think it is. You trade the French market for the Chinese one, and still get the rest of Europe/NA. I think organizers can live with that. They could of course benefit from that. Then again, they would benefit even more if they invited both Stephano and the Chinese guy instead of players like Machine or Hasuobs(just examples) Machine doesn't disrupt tournaments. Stephano did it twice last night. Neither does Stephano. You have to put things into perspective, this is the first(that I've heard of at least, could be more) out of what, 100 to 200 over a year? Looking at statistics it's far more risky to invite Polt than Stephano. Let me get this straight..... he's 45 minutes late for a match and then later refuses to play the finals....... but he doesn't disrupt tournaments? Are you sure that's what you wanted to say? No, he wasn't 45 min late. He asked if could a break for eating, which he then got.
Fixed. If that was the case, it's not really a big deal. Doesn't excuse the other things though.
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On February 01 2012 06:54 aiuradun wrote:
is boils down to don't allow players in your tournaments to play 2 tournaments at the same time.
1: it can end in siturations like this.
2: it will delay either or both of the tournaments due to a match in either of the tournaments will get delayed and the tournaments as a result will end up in really late tournaments just as this.
some basic rules should be written by both tournament orgas in order to avoid these siturations.
I haven't played in any tournaments so take my comment with a grain of salt:
But I think that'd be a good idea. A tournament's a commitment and running multiple tournaments simultaneously could lead to all sorts of weird things going on.
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On February 01 2012 07:02 Zairair wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 06:55 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:50 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:48 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:45 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:43 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:38 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:37 m4inbrain wrote:On February 01 2012 06:35 Zairair wrote:On February 01 2012 06:31 m4inbrain wrote:
[quote]
Where did i side? I admit it now, i dont get what youre saying, and i think my english is the reason (and i mean that honestly - i know what bourgeoisie is, and proletariat, but not where i did side with any of them, so i assume there is some figure of speech or something that im missing).
You either blame the problems on the working class or you blame it on the ruling class. How you decide is based on how you think, not how things are or should be. Of course most Western society aims to be that 1% but who can blame workers for trying? Well, then tell me, who is to blame if you overestimate yourself? That's your own opinion. Have you ever been to China? Vietnam? North Korea? Try living there for a year. Become more holistic in your worldview. That didnt answer my question, so i guess you couldnt answer it without proving me right. Because you know that living in a communistic enviroment is actually completely not comparable to what happened here (he was not forced into accepting offerings). So, again. Lets rephrase the question. Who is to blame for Stephano overestimating himself. You know. Not living in a communistic country and stuff. ONOG's fault. Should've postponed the match to let the spectators watch him play the finals vs Kas. Ah. Okay, so the complete tournament organisation should pay for stephano overestimating himself. Well that sounds smart, because you know, Mr Bitter and the staff of ONOG doesnt have other reliabilities, because theyre getting paid for what they do. Right? Oh wait, no. Theyre not. They did it on their own time. Ah and the barcrafts, they should just gather the next day for just the finals, right? Because, thats what you do, if one guy is to stupid to estimate what hes capable of. Yeah, sounds about right. And yeah, ->i<- am the one trolling here. Sure. Ah. Okay so if one slave is okay, slavery is just okay in general. Let's reverse the Civil Rights Movement of the 20th century and reenact it. Yup, sounds terrific. I'm the one telling everyone else that their trolls. Every time. Sure. Each my posts includes that word. Why is he being a slave when he decides to sign up for two tournaments? If i chose to work overhours, so i can finish friday earlier, am i a slave on thursday? Thats just a stupid thing to say. A slave does not have a choice, stephano couldve chose to not participate two tournaments at once. He did not. If i go to my chef (or boss) tomorrow, tell him: "well boss, send the rest of the team home, i can test this gearbox by myself from here on" - and then fail to deliver the results, am i a slave or did i overestimate myself? I dont get where the word "slave" comes from without anyone being forced to accept an invitation? Slave, wage worker, food stamps, the similarities are more prevalent than your eye can see. Check out South Central LA. It's the Chef's fault for not doing a background checking to see that you were dealing drugs as a side job and then getting exposed for it.
Well south central LA is like 9200km away from here, so i wont check it out anytime soon. And to be honest, i dont care whats up there. I dont live there. Nor does stephano btw, he is an european. Like me, we are living in the same system more or less.
And without a bigger picture (as in "network" and something like a social security number to check if he checked in already in another tournament, you get what i mean), what you suggest is completely obsolete. And no, its not the chefs responsibility to check if you are a criminal (especially as a first offender, in which case you are not in the police-system), in which country do you observe and check your employees? That actually would be more slavery than everything you mentioned until now, because it would undermine your rights.
And btw, on page 36 (my first posting) i said: "Stephano wasnt forced to accept two tournaments on one day, he could have anticipated that it would take longer than scheduled. Or better, should have. So he didnt. Proves, that he is immature and needs proper management (i actually think its not just his fault, but his teams as well), obviously he cant do it himself.".
So yeah, i actually blame his team/management as well.
edit
The way I see it, you're right in the regard that if you don't care about your fans, you don't care about your coach. But the fact is that fans are easier to ignore than your coach. (If we're talking about the Korean style where they're right beside you)
Well if he stands behind you with like a whip and stuff, yeah. Every time you suck you get a smack on the head, that would actually be a good thing for one or two top-foreign players. And i dont want to imagine a mad like shit Boxer behind me, warming up to kick me in the face and do kung fu and stuff behind me. ;P (and yeah, before someone brings it up, cliche every asian knows kung fu, especially not outside china blabla, just to be on the safe side)
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EPT
