|
On February 01 2012 01:41 Jibba wrote:
If it's simply about viewers, then why not replace all foreigners in tournaments with Chinese players? Put all the foreigners out of jobs. They cost more, draw less viewers and aren't as accomodating. The Divina female tournament pulled 400,000 in China. Imagine what would happen for a major prize pool.
And if you want a homegrown option, then tournaments can just feature LoL. Dumber player drama, but less tournament drama and 3x-5x the viewers.
All about viewership, right?
i know your just trying to prove a point but at the same time its not a good one ;p your thinking of everything in terms of mutual exclusion. you can have the "look im a dick stephano" stream getting x viewers and the mass chinese viewers of some league. i dont understand what your trying to say tbh ;o
|
rofl i love stephano hes hilarious! :D
|
On February 01 2012 01:41 Jibba wrote:
If it's simply about viewers, then why not replace all foreigners in tournaments with Chinese players? Put all the foreigners out of jobs. They cost more, draw less viewers and aren't as accomodating. The Divina female tournament pulled 400,000 in China. Imagine what would happen for a major prize pool.
And if you want a homegrown option, then tournaments can just feature LoL. Dumber player drama, but less tournament drama and 3x-5x the viewers.
All about viewership, right?
Just because there are more profitable investments does not mean that there won't be any investors to the less profitable "niche" areas. As long as they are profitable, and that depends on viewers. So I see nothing in your post to actually challenge that assertion. I see ways it can potentially be challenged, but that is not it. It is of course more complex it is about viewers only so much as number of viewers can be counted to correlate with people buying (or positively affecting by word of "mouth") products of the sponsors. So in the end it is about conversion ratio between viewers and customers.
But also note where this discussion about viewers came from. It was a response to a guy claiming that in analogy to political process voting is equivalent to posting on a forum. Others pointed out that voting is more analogous to watching content. I see no reason to make it into some tangent as it was just a response to bad analogy.
EDIT: Now that I think about it I might have misunderstood you. If your post was a reaction to my post about Stephano having a lot of stream viewers then part of my response is still valid, but the rest not  . I would just add that even that was meant to dispel the bad analogy with elections, not to draw any moral "ought" conclusions.
|
On February 01 2012 01:18 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 01:11 mcc wrote:On February 01 2012 00:57 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 01 2012 00:51 Agathon wrote:On February 01 2012 00:25 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 01 2012 00:24 tekos44 wrote:On February 01 2012 00:19 Koorb wrote:On January 31 2012 23:47 Ghanburighan wrote:
Quote or link from Millennium? If Millennium actively supports such behaviour, there should be a community backlash against them. They are undermining the work and effort of thousands of people labouring to bring about esports as an industry, and those profiteers should be excluded for the sake of tournaments, real professionals, and fans across the globe.
It's inexcusable to harm other people for the sake of money just because no regulatory body is out there to punish them. With that attitude, if they can make more money from forfeiting a match and taking the betting winnings, they would. And that would be the end of esports.
Millenium doesn't support such behavior. They just don't care about the international community's opinion on the matter. Stephano won the SCAN Invitational #3 and they're happy with it, as long as they are concerned the forfeit in ONoG finals wasn't a big deal. Instead of "international community's opinion", i'd say "teamliquid community opinon" Teamliquid is a community and international. And a very intersting mix of esport actors, newbies like me, pro players, trolls, children, very well informed people, very bad informed people, haters, fanboys, etc... That means that all what is said on TL can be very interesting and constructive, but a part of what is said here is hardly biaised aswell. That's the reason why Millenium's manager doesn't take too much attention about dramas on TL, because the "community's opinion" is not a unique voice on TL or Reddit that tell the unique objective truth. It's just a mix of very different points of view that use to ignore the famous "silent majority". TL is not the community's voice. Not now, not ever. It's a place of "verbal" exchange, and informations gathering, and a pro team website, nothing more. I can understand that it's not important for some people. Only voting people have to be counted when electing a president. People talking here are the ones who vote in the starcraft country. The silent community doesn't matter to any statistics. So if people here make a riot you'd better calm them down cause they represent the part of the community that actually cares enough to talk about the game, the teams and the players. Voting in starcraft community is not screaming the loudest (as it is not in politics) on some forum but watching the tournaments and other content. Do not flatter yourself. People who talk are the ones listened. If people wouldn't talk on TL half of the changes in SC2 wouldn't happen. And people who are in this thread are most likely the ones that followed ONOG. If millenium chooses to ignore the community let them do it, but don't tell me that the community on TL doesn't represent starcraft mostly.
Then considering how you have 17 posts on this topic, that would make you the most important voice of all.
And no, the community on TL does not represent the global SC2 scene.
|
United States22883 Posts
On February 01 2012 01:59 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 01:41 Jibba wrote:
If it's simply about viewers, then why not replace all foreigners in tournaments with Chinese players? Put all the foreigners out of jobs. They cost more, draw less viewers and aren't as accomodating. The Divina female tournament pulled 400,000 in China. Imagine what would happen for a major prize pool.
And if you want a homegrown option, then tournaments can just feature LoL. Dumber player drama, but less tournament drama and 3x-5x the viewers.
All about viewership, right? Just because there are more profitable investments does not mean that there won't be any investors to the less profitable "niche" areas. As long as they are profitable, and that depends on viewers. So I see nothing in your post to actually challenge that assertion. I see ways it can potentially be challenged, but that is not it. It is of course more complex it is about viewers only so much as number of viewers can be counted to correlate with people buying (or positively affecting by word of "mouth") products of the sponsors. So in the end it is about conversion ratio between viewers and customers. But also note where this discussion about viewers came from. It was a response to a guy claiming that in analogy to political process voting is equivalent to posting on a forum. Others pointed out that voting is more analogous to watching content. I see no reason to make it into some tangent as it was just a response to bad analogy. EDIT: Now that I think about it I might have misunderstood you. If your post was a reaction to my post about Stephano having a lot of stream viewers then part of my response is still valid, but the rest not . I would just add that even that was meant to dispel the bad analogy with elections, not to draw any moral "ought" conclusions.
What if, knowing that Stephano might cause a disruption in your tournament, you invite all of the same normal players such as Kas, Dimaga, etc. but for Stephano's spot, include a top Chinese player?
My point is that you say he has leverage because of his stream numbers, but I don't think it's as much as you think it is. You trade the French market for the Chinese one, and still get the rest of Europe/NA. I think organizers can live with that.
|
And again , he have to play 2 tournaments today , MSI pro cup and EOSL vs Adelscott.
We can understand he cant manage all this tournament guyz, he won scan invitational juste before, and another tournament the previous day , etc etc.
|
On February 01 2012 02:17 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 01:59 mcc wrote:On February 01 2012 01:41 Jibba wrote:
If it's simply about viewers, then why not replace all foreigners in tournaments with Chinese players? Put all the foreigners out of jobs. They cost more, draw less viewers and aren't as accomodating. The Divina female tournament pulled 400,000 in China. Imagine what would happen for a major prize pool.
And if you want a homegrown option, then tournaments can just feature LoL. Dumber player drama, but less tournament drama and 3x-5x the viewers.
All about viewership, right? Just because there are more profitable investments does not mean that there won't be any investors to the less profitable "niche" areas. As long as they are profitable, and that depends on viewers. So I see nothing in your post to actually challenge that assertion. I see ways it can potentially be challenged, but that is not it. It is of course more complex it is about viewers only so much as number of viewers can be counted to correlate with people buying (or positively affecting by word of "mouth") products of the sponsors. So in the end it is about conversion ratio between viewers and customers. But also note where this discussion about viewers came from. It was a response to a guy claiming that in analogy to political process voting is equivalent to posting on a forum. Others pointed out that voting is more analogous to watching content. I see no reason to make it into some tangent as it was just a response to bad analogy. EDIT: Now that I think about it I might have misunderstood you. If your post was a reaction to my post about Stephano having a lot of stream viewers then part of my response is still valid, but the rest not . I would just add that even that was meant to dispel the bad analogy with elections, not to draw any moral "ought" conclusions. What if, knowing that Stephano might cause a disruption in your tournament, you invite all of the same normal players such as Kas, Dimaga, etc. but for Stephano's spot, include a top Chinese player? My point is that you say he has leverage because of his stream numbers, but I don't think it's as much as you think it is. You trade the French market for the Chinese one, and still get the rest of Europe/NA. I think organizers can live with that.
I can also live with that, I see no problem. They can do what they want. If they think Chinese market is worth it for their sponsors and they can actually get Chinese viewers (you will need dedicated casters) then why not.
Bu the point is I did no say he has leverage (although he has), I pointed out his numbers to show how bad of an analogy the guy with election analogy made. His stream numbers show how little people screaming in this thread mean.
|
On February 01 2012 02:17 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 01:59 mcc wrote:On February 01 2012 01:41 Jibba wrote:
If it's simply about viewers, then why not replace all foreigners in tournaments with Chinese players? Put all the foreigners out of jobs. They cost more, draw less viewers and aren't as accomodating. The Divina female tournament pulled 400,000 in China. Imagine what would happen for a major prize pool.
And if you want a homegrown option, then tournaments can just feature LoL. Dumber player drama, but less tournament drama and 3x-5x the viewers.
All about viewership, right? Just because there are more profitable investments does not mean that there won't be any investors to the less profitable "niche" areas. As long as they are profitable, and that depends on viewers. So I see nothing in your post to actually challenge that assertion. I see ways it can potentially be challenged, but that is not it. It is of course more complex it is about viewers only so much as number of viewers can be counted to correlate with people buying (or positively affecting by word of "mouth") products of the sponsors. So in the end it is about conversion ratio between viewers and customers. But also note where this discussion about viewers came from. It was a response to a guy claiming that in analogy to political process voting is equivalent to posting on a forum. Others pointed out that voting is more analogous to watching content. I see no reason to make it into some tangent as it was just a response to bad analogy. EDIT: Now that I think about it I might have misunderstood you. If your post was a reaction to my post about Stephano having a lot of stream viewers then part of my response is still valid, but the rest not . I would just add that even that was meant to dispel the bad analogy with elections, not to draw any moral "ought" conclusions. What if, knowing that Stephano might cause a disruption in your tournament, you invite all of the same normal players such as Kas, Dimaga, etc. but for Stephano's spot, include a top Chinese player? My point is that you say he has leverage because of his stream numbers, but I don't think it's as much as you think it is. You trade the French market for the Chinese one, and still get the rest of Europe/NA. I think organizers can live with that.
They could of course benefit from that. Then again, they would benefit even more if they invited both Stephano and the Chinese guy instead of players like Machine or Hasuobs(just examples)
|
so much drama when the guy was going to play at 4am, if we want to consider SC2 as a serious thing, then we also should stop imagining that every SC2 pro can play in any condition, he screwed up thinking he could have played both tournaments, yeah, so much drama and making it into TL first page is pathetic. If Kas was ready to play at 5am good for him, but it simply was too late for many people standards, he forfeited ooooh big deal, and btw i'm not saying that because I'm french, I couldnt care less about Stephano nationality, I dont really like the guy, it's just that this community is looking for fucking drama everywhere, you guys should play a little more instead of spending time on stream chats & forums insulting people...
|
What I find terrible is the reaction of the French (And i'm French). They support or minimize Stephano's choice when it's clearly a big mistake on his part. But in France it's quite difficult to criticize Stephano or Millenium. Critics are often accused of making propaganda against Millenium. When this news was treated by French news sites has been said that it was not worth the trouble and that these sites were trying to damage the reputation of the player or its structure.
|
The players are like the customer - their satisfaction is most important. Tournaments are mistaking their authority.
|
If Stefano plays, he loses the match vs Kas distastefully.
If Stefano forfeits, he loses the tournament.
If Stefano never joins tournament, he loses chance to win 4th place.
Option doesn't matter for him. True fans can see his games from other tournament. Other fans: tough luck. Tournament organizers: set the rules in contract.
|
On February 01 2012 02:22 Vira wrote:
And again , he have to play 2 tournaments today , MSI pro cup and EOSL vs Adelscott.
We can understand he cant manage all this tournament guyz, he won scan invitational juste before, and another tournament the previous day , etc etc.
It's his job no one is going to feel sorry for him because he earns mass $ playing a videogame for few hours.
People love drama anyway and Stephano is a young talented player so everybody will forgive him in few days, hopefully.
But this thread is interesting as it shows how sc2 is sitting on the fence between being a game and a profession.
|
Wasn't this due to a scheduling problem??
|
Stephano just saved Kas from another humiliation. He was being fair!
|
On February 01 2012 01:58 Xenocryst wrote:
rofl i love stephano hes hilarious! :D
Sabotaging a tournament isn't hilarious. It's rude, uncalled for, and unacceptable. Doing this doesn't make you funny, it makes you a careless douche.
|
On February 01 2012 02:56 ArnaudF wrote:
Stephano just saved Kas from another humiliation. He was being fair!
Omg this is Pacquiao vs Mayweather!!!
|
If you guys look at the Starcraft 2 Rankings outside of Korea, Stephano is ranked #1 and he was in bad condition that day to play vs Kas. He wants to maintain at #1 position and not give easy ELL points to Kas, its just really simple.
|
And also you guys should not be so hard on Stephano as he took a very honest way to approach the Admins of the tournament and told them what he felt. If anything, Stephano could've said bad internet at the place of his home, and cannot play. Stephano is a really nice person.
|
I was watching the stream when that happened. TumbaSC was very rude and commented the whole thing as the french surrender everytime or smt like that. MrBitter was trying to calm him down but he continued anyway. I think that this should not be tollerated. Hence the stephanos tweets about racism.
Also I'm not french and even I find that insulting...
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
