EPTthe life of a progamer involves playing at awkward times... plus I'm sure he could have won.
Stephano forfeits ONOG Finals - Page 38
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GenesisX
Canada4267 Posts
the life of a progamer involves playing at awkward times... plus I'm sure he could have won. | ||
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Corsica
Ukraine1854 Posts
On January 31 2012 09:10 mathsucks wrote: If everyone wants it to die, why are you bumping the thread? :\ I gave up, its impossible to have argument with this people . !NothingToSeeHere! bye | ||
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Malinor
Germany4733 Posts
On January 31 2012 09:08 mathsucks wrote: I understand, let me guide you to the proper place so they will hear your complaints....so they don't get buried in a multipage thread. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=7 Thank you very much for your guidance, but I have been here much longer than you and I believe I can do without your guidance. There is a piece of news and I commented on it in the thread regarding these news, as have done many others, since it is basically not a big deal, just a wondering. If enough people "wonder", news policy might change, or more likely won't change, it doesn't really matter. I will come back anyway. Starting a thread in website feedback is a whole different animal, I would have the need to adress a fundamental problem with this site, not a footnote like this piece of news. Anyway, I am dropping this now, enough personal banter from my point of view. | ||
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EnSky
Philippines1003 Posts
On January 31 2012 09:06 Lord_J wrote: Unfortunate. This kind of misconduct has a way of coming back and biting players in the ass, and I wouldn't be surprised if more than one tournament in the future quietly decides to give an invite to a more dependable, professional player instead. You'd think after incidents like CoCa/Byun and NaNiwa's probe rush players would put a little more thought into how they conduct themselves in tournaments, but I guess Stephano didn't get the memo. This. Especially those with small to medium prize pool. If this has no impact on Stephano I hope other players keep this professionalism thing on top of their priority list. Also, I hope tournaments in the future include this and other similar situations in their contracts with players. | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36390 Posts
On January 31 2012 09:11 Enervate wrote: I for one appreciate this being posted as news on TL. I didn't even know about this tournament or this incident beforehand so I found this thread very informative, and I'm glad I found out what happened. Hooray. I just hope there are a lot of people like you who are not posting. | ||
pPingu
Switzerland2892 Posts
On January 31 2012 09:11 Otolia wrote: The difference in term of incentives between a Grand Chelem (around a 1 M $) and those of the ONOG (around 1.5 K $) is significant. But that's not everything, when a professional tennis player decides to forfeit a match in a smaller tournament to preserve himself for a next one - bigger - like Tsonga often do for Rolland Garros, nobody is criticizing him for being insulting to the profession because every other person knows his body and mindset are his sole way to make money. If you don't see the problem in your opinion right now, I will just left you and the other paragons of virtue who are keen to lash the hounds onto everyone not deemed worthy of their supposed superiority that professional sport is a job which means it is about making money. When the rewards isn't worth the care, nobody will do the job ... to say the least. When you make a tournament change its rules, delay its games, make the viewers and the players wait, the minimum is to play it to the end no? And people saying 1.5k is not a lot of money, wtf just send me the money I would be pretty happy to get as much money as some people get for 1 month work in 2 days | ||
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The Final Boss
United States1839 Posts
On January 31 2012 09:11 GenesisX wrote: he could have at least tried I think the life of a progamer involves playing at awkward times... plus I'm sure he could have won. Have you seen Kas play recently? Obviously it's all hypothetical, but even if Stephano was 100% I don't think I would be too sure he could beat Kas. | ||
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Agathon
France1505 Posts
On January 31 2012 08:33 Hot_Bid wrote: First, I never "defended" Tyler's decision to forfeit. I only defended our decision not to make a thread about it. Look through my posts, not once have I defended the actual action. It isn't mentioned here because it shouldn't be. That's the bottom line. This is a thread about something that is worth having a news topic. I've stated why. It is interesting that you read so much bias into my posts when I never once talked about whether I approved or disapproved of his decision to withdraw. Second, I don't know why Tyler forfeited, so I don't have a viewpoint on it. If it was because "he didn't feel like playing" then yes I think it's a bad decision. If it's because his friend is in the hospital, then I think it's justified. Do I believe he should state why? Yeah I do. Again, none of this is relevant to the thread at hand. If it was any other player, Incontrol, Destiny, Sase, anyone in this tournament else I'd still have the same opinion and act the same way. Of course, you wouldn't be accusing me of bias then so I wouldn't have to make this post. Lastly, the thread doesn't defend or state a viewpoint on who was right. It doesn't villainize Stephano or ONOG, and I think it does a good job of aggregating data and presenting responses and facts. It doesn't push a specific interpretation of who was right in this. Again, I am not Tyler. I do not know why he forfeited. Do I want an explanation just like you? Yes, I would like one. What is your point? I didn't defend him, I just don't know why he forfeited. Contrary to you, I actually do think he owes fans and organizers some sort of explanation. I really feel like sometimes people just look really hard for bias when it's not there, I didn't defend Tyler's actions at all in this thread, I just defended our decision not to make a separate thread about him. We'd not make a thread if it was a player of Tyler's stature and caliber even if he was not on Liquid so I don't see the bias. "Second, I don't know why Tyler forfeited" and you know more what's in Stephano's head? I don't say that to blame you, honestly, but maybe;;;Stephano was not even tired. Maybe he just wanted to let Kas win, Kas who leaves in a poor country countrary of France, and who is universally loved (because he's...lovely) to get the money he needs, and that Stephano doesn't. How could you even know? (honestly i doubt it was the case, but, neither me, neither you really knows) And i think (i hope tbh) i'm not derailing the thread. I'm speaking about the reasons of it's own existence, and in the same time about the non existence of other threads like this one, exactly like you do. You're justifying the existence of this thread (and i respect that), i think i'm not out of topic. The question remains. Why Tyler is ok (and could let his place to another player who might beat everybody, like Illusion barely did), and Stephano isn't ? My question is : Why there is a thread about this Stephano's forfeit, and nothing about all the other forfeit or any bad behaviour that append every day, at least in EU online cups? By pros ! By very known and loved players ! It's the same bashing for everybody or no bashing at all. Just few players; it doesn't make any sens to me. We have a sentence for that in french, it's "Deux poids, deux mesures", "Two weights, two scales", "Double standards". It's not fair. It wasn't fair for me about Naniwa's drone rush drama, it's not fair now either. I hope i expressed my point correctly, and that everybody will understand my point, even they disagree. | ||
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AllHailTheDead
United States418 Posts
I dont think he deserves a 4th? place finish if he forfeits the finals | ||
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ItchyLegs
Canada369 Posts
I am the biggest Stephano fanboy you will ever find. I study his VODs, I've seen every replay he has released and I have never missed him streaming. But this? This was fucking dumb. On the flip side, why the fuck would he care? He doesn't read TL, Millenium doesn't give a shit what anyone thinks outside of France (example: Complexity situation) and Stephano is still a fucking boss. He won a tournament earlier that day, he probably would've beaten Kas regardless of his condition, and he's still going to win everything he plays in this year. S | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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MandoRelease
France374 Posts
On January 31 2012 09:04 Bashion wrote: I respect your point, Mando. But why didnt Liquid say anything about Tyler forfeiting? If Stephanos behavior was selfish and disgraceful, so was Tyler's. I agree to some extent. The implications are very different for both cases. I think Tyler's case would be discussed just as much if it was under the same circumstances that Stephano's. Tyler should have played, but his actions did not impact on Liquid, ONOG and the fans, as much as Stephano's actions did on Mill, ONOG and the fans. As cliché as it sounds, Stephano's responsability here was greater than Tyler's. They both should have acted differently, but Stephano doesn't even seem to care when he should even more so than Tyler (for this specific case), which is just not acceptable. | ||
disciple
9070 Posts
On January 31 2012 09:11 Otolia wrote: The difference in term of incentives between a Grand Chelem (around a 1 M $) and those of the ONOG (around 1.5 K $) is significant. But that's not everything, when a professional tennis player decides to forfeit a match in a smaller tournament to preserve himself for a next one - bigger - like Tsonga often do for Rolland Garros, nobody is criticizing him for being insulting to the profession because every other person knows his body and mindset are his sole way to make money. If you don't see the problem in your opinion right now, I will just left you and the other paragons of virtue who are keen to lash the hounds onto everyone not deemed worthy of their supposed superiority that professional sport is a job which means it is about making money. When the rewards isn't worth the care, nobody will do the job ... to say the least. Stephano as well as the two players mentioned are getting paid to entertain the spectators. Whether they see themselves in this position or not it doesn't matter as winning a Grand Slam tournament or 1,5k sc event would be equally irrelevant if no one wants to watch you play. On a side note, do you really believe Djokovic or Nadal thought about the money while playing each other? The real problem to me comes from Stephanos reaction to the situation and reading a good share of the comments here its absolutely shocking for me to realize how low are the community standards for professional ethics in progaming | ||
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On January 31 2012 09:10 mathsucks wrote: If everyone wants it to die, why are you bumping the thread? :\ Bumping has no relevance to a thread spotlighted in community news. It's going to be there whether you like it or not. | ||
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dcsoda
United States583 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36390 Posts
On January 31 2012 09:15 Agathon wrote: "Second, I don't know why Tyler forfeited" and you know more what's in Stephano's head? I don't say that to blame you, honestly, but maybe;;;Stephano was not even tired. Maybe he just wanted to let Kas win, Kas who leaves in a poor country countrary of France, and who is universally loved (because he's...lovely) to get the money he needs, and that Stephano doesn't. How could you even know? (honestly i doubt it was the case, but, neither me, neither you really knows) Are you being serious right now? Stephano literally said he was tired, we can only take what he says at face value. He could be stopping an alien invasion instead of playing in the ONOG finals we have no idea. Great. And i think (i hope tbh) i'm not derailing the thread. I'm speaking about the reasons of it's own existence, and in the same time about the non existence of other threads like this one, exactly like you do. You're justifying the existence of this thread (and i respect that), i think i'm not out of topic. The question remains. Why Tyler is ok (and could let his place to another player who might beat everybody, like Illusion barely did), and Stephano isn't ? Again, who said what Tyler did was ok??? I certainly didn't say it was OK. You are arguing against nobody. I only said it is not big enough to be it's own thread. Tyler is not Stephano, and first round is not finals. My question is : Why there is a thread about this Stephano's forfeit, and nothing about all the other forfeit or any bad behaviour that append every day, at least in EU online cups? By pros ! By very known and loved players ! There are plenty of reasons why. I stated so in my post. Scale, prizes, viewers, circumstances, there's a lot. You seem to be indicating this thread is a hit-job on Stephano, but it's just presenting facts. Plenty of people are defending Stephano. It's the same bashing for everybody or no bashing at all. Just few players; it doesn't make any sens to me. We have a sentence for that in french, it's "Deux poids, deux mesures", "Two weights, two scales", "Double standards". It's not fair. It wasn't fair for me about Naniwa's drone rush drama, it's not fair now either. I hope i expressed my point correctly, and that everybody will understand my point, even they disagree. It's not a double standard because if Tyler or Incontrol or Destiny did this we'd make a thread too. There is no conspiracy against Stephano, in fact if you actually read our news, all the writers love Stephano. It pains me that I even have to say that last sentence to justify just reporting on the facts of a situation, but yeah. | ||
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Beastyqt
Serbia516 Posts
Leave it at that and stop causing more drama over nothing, he got his "punishment" and thats enough, making this into big "Community news" is a joke. Instead of making meaningless posts like this you could do something productive and make post about Kas winning the tournament or make ANY post about ANYTHING that is positive and that isnt pointless and that doesnt cause more drama over...nothing. Making this story of the day or highlight of the day however you wanna call it is overdoing it, thread alone would be fine. | ||
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mathsucks
194 Posts
On January 31 2012 09:19 Bagration wrote: Bumping has no relevance to a thread spotlighted in community news. It's going to be there whether you like it or not. Good point, my mistake. As I have yet to say it, thanks TL for the newsbits. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On January 31 2012 09:14 Hot_Bid wrote: Hooray. I just hope there are a lot of people like you who are not posting. Yea there are, even if it might be wrong you just do what you do, theres always a silent majority that agrees with how things are run here. I pretty much lurked this place for 2 years before I actually made an account (this isnt necessarily a good thing but whatevs my bad) and for every one that whines about this being to tabloidish theres probably more that go "Oh so thats what happened." I dont think its a big deal at all, the players and the tournament management dont think so and if they are fine with it I dont see why anyone else should have a problem. But again I probably wouldnt even know this happened if it wasnt highlighted and its nice to know. As for causing unnecessary drama, well it wouldve caused drama anyway, frontpage or not. i dont think a few hundred extra pointless hate posts ever made any difference to whats really going on. But a 100 extra informed opinions is worth it. | ||
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Otolia
France5805 Posts
On January 31 2012 09:14 pPingu wrote: When you make a tournament change its rules, delay its games, make the viewers and the players wait, the minimum is to play it to the end no? And people saying 1.5k is not a lot of money, wtf just send me the money I would be pretty happy to get as much money as some people get for 1 month work in 2 days If the TL community wants a professional scene, we have to accept the side-effect of the transformation. It is pointless to fight it like we are doing right now. Unless players are bound by contract to play, they should always prioritize what is better for them not matter what the spectator thinks because in the end, if they can't win anymore they would be screwed not the viewer. On January 31 2012 09:14 Hot_Bid wrote: Hooray. I just hope there are a lot of people like you who are not posting. I hope you also understands what it says about our community that this kind of subject is hosted on the same website as the excellent GSL/PL write-ups. Not to diminish the work of the newsers, but I think TL should focus more on its excellent writing staff and let the users post the news and moderating after. | ||
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