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Braavos36399 Posts
On January 31 2012 09:02 purecarnagge wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 08:33 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 08:21 purecarnagge wrote:On January 31 2012 06:41 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 06:30 eYeball wrote:
Waiting for another thread regarding Tyler to show up any second now, TeamLiquid Esports. I am not sure whether people are actually serious about this, do you really think that there should be a thread every time someone forfeits in a tournament? Do you truly think that "Tyler forfeits round 1 of tournament" is worth a thread by itself? It is not a notable news worthy event. The situation with Stephano in the finals of a major invitational (3k prize pool) is something that never happened before, and about a player who is one of the best (if not the best) non-Koreans. Think about what would happen in either scenario: 1. We make a thread just about Tyler forfeiting People complain because it clearly isn't news worthy. Tyler dropping out in the first round doesn't really affect the tournament. Tyler isn't winning championships and didn't forfeit in the finals. People will say its just TL "hyping another one of their players who doesn't get results" etc. 2. We don't make a thread about Tyler forfeiting People react like they are in this thread Tyler forfeiting doesn't fit in this thread, and isn't even close to the level of notability / newsworthiness that this situation with Stephano is. It seems a bit unfair and far too easy to just point and yell bias all the time. I still don't understand whether people actually believe there should be a thread about Tyler's forfeit or whether they just like finding things to complain about. If it was any other player forfeiting (not Tyler) in the first round, we still wouldn't make a thread about it. On January 31 2012 06:45 Hot_Bid wrote:
I don't understand how people can say its hypocrisy that there is no thread about Tyler when if it was anyone else who forfeits first round (literally anyone, doesn't have to be Liquid) we wouldn't make a thread about it.
To summarize:
1. Anyone forfeiting first round, no thread, not newsworthy
2. One of the best foreigners forfeiting invitational right before finals, yes thread
#1 doesn't matter if it's Liquid, there wouldn't be a thread about Destiny or Flo or Incontrol or anyone else forfeiting first round, this should be obvious to anyone. There is no special treatment for Tyler. While I understand ONOGs position of wanting to clarify the situation with Stephano especially after such a lengthy delay in there schedule. I just find it completely odd that nobody wants to mention the other withdrawal from the tournament. That being Liquid Tyler. While I would like to think that Tyler understands being a professional more than most in this industry and his career. I find it rather amusing that your so quick to stick up for him, post multiple times, then offer no reason to the community. The same community that he asks to support him, his site, his team, makes $$ off of through advertising and streaming. First, I never "defended" Tyler's decision to forfeit. I only defended our decision not to make a thread about it. Look through my posts, not once have I defended the actual action. It isn't mentioned here because it shouldn't be. That's the bottom line. This is a thread about something that is worth having a news topic. I've stated why. It is interesting that you read so much bias into my posts when I never once talked about whether I approved or disapproved of his decision to withdraw. Second, I don't know why Tyler forfeited, so I don't have a viewpoint on it. If it was because "he didn't feel like playing" then yes I think it's a bad decision. If it's because his friend is in the hospital, then I think it's justified. Do I believe he should state why? Yeah I do. Again, none of this is relevant to the thread at hand. If it was any other player, Incontrol, Destiny, Sase, anyone in this tournament else I'd still have the same opinion and act the same way. Of course, you wouldn't be accusing me of bias then so I wouldn't have to make this post. Lastly, the thread doesn't defend or state a viewpoint on who was right. It doesn't villainize Stephano or ONOG, and I think it does a good job of aggregating data and presenting responses and facts. It doesn't push a specific interpretation of who was right in this. Liquid has always been cleaner than the rest. They were always the guys that people gravitated towards because they did it better than the other guys, even when they weren't performing, and they always had fun. What does leaving in the 1st round have to do with being a professional. The bottom line is it isn't professional. Not offering an explanation to your supporters isn't either.
Does Tyler owe anyone an explanation? No, he doesn't. He doesn't have to do a damn thing. Your posts defending him and saying nothing when 70% of his supporters simply want to know "why?". These are the supporters paying his bills, his teams bills, and making this site one of the best on the internet.
Its just an opinion. It's not the most news worthy event but people would like to know. If people want to know then guess what...Thats NEWS!!!!!!!! OMG LIQUID TYLER IS NEWS ON TEAMLIQUID.NET. Again, I am not Tyler. I do not know why he forfeited. Do I want an explanation just like you? Yes, I would like one. What is your point? I didn't defend him, I just don't know why he forfeited. Contrary to you, I actually do think he owes fans and organizers some sort of explanation. I really feel like sometimes people just look really hard for bias when it's not there, I didn't defend Tyler's actions at all in this thread, I just defended our decision not to make a separate thread about him. We'd not make a thread if it was a player of Tyler's stature and caliber even if he was not on Liquid so I don't see the bias. Its liquid tyler, and its teamliquid.net...and tyler forfeiting isn't news? I mean its not spotlight worthy, but its news. That's all I'm saying.
We are simply treating Tyler like we would any other pro in his position in NOT making a thread about it. Nobody is hiding anything, Tyler forfeited and nobody knows why. He has yet to say. Still, even if he did, a first round forfeit from Tyler really isn't thread worthy.
Are you really suggesting, after many posts of complaining and accusing us of bias, that we SHOULD do this simply because it's a Liquid player? WTF?
If Tyler made the finals and forfeited, this thread would be about him.
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On January 31 2012 09:02 purecarnagge wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 08:33 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 08:21 purecarnagge wrote:On January 31 2012 06:41 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 06:30 eYeball wrote:
Waiting for another thread regarding Tyler to show up any second now, TeamLiquid Esports. I am not sure whether people are actually serious about this, do you really think that there should be a thread every time someone forfeits in a tournament? Do you truly think that "Tyler forfeits round 1 of tournament" is worth a thread by itself? It is not a notable news worthy event. The situation with Stephano in the finals of a major invitational (3k prize pool) is something that never happened before, and about a player who is one of the best (if not the best) non-Koreans. Think about what would happen in either scenario: 1. We make a thread just about Tyler forfeiting People complain because it clearly isn't news worthy. Tyler dropping out in the first round doesn't really affect the tournament. Tyler isn't winning championships and didn't forfeit in the finals. People will say its just TL "hyping another one of their players who doesn't get results" etc. 2. We don't make a thread about Tyler forfeiting People react like they are in this thread Tyler forfeiting doesn't fit in this thread, and isn't even close to the level of notability / newsworthiness that this situation with Stephano is. It seems a bit unfair and far too easy to just point and yell bias all the time. I still don't understand whether people actually believe there should be a thread about Tyler's forfeit or whether they just like finding things to complain about. If it was any other player forfeiting (not Tyler) in the first round, we still wouldn't make a thread about it. On January 31 2012 06:45 Hot_Bid wrote:
I don't understand how people can say its hypocrisy that there is no thread about Tyler when if it was anyone else who forfeits first round (literally anyone, doesn't have to be Liquid) we wouldn't make a thread about it.
To summarize:
1. Anyone forfeiting first round, no thread, not newsworthy
2. One of the best foreigners forfeiting invitational right before finals, yes thread
#1 doesn't matter if it's Liquid, there wouldn't be a thread about Destiny or Flo or Incontrol or anyone else forfeiting first round, this should be obvious to anyone. There is no special treatment for Tyler. While I understand ONOGs position of wanting to clarify the situation with Stephano especially after such a lengthy delay in there schedule. I just find it completely odd that nobody wants to mention the other withdrawal from the tournament. That being Liquid Tyler. While I would like to think that Tyler understands being a professional more than most in this industry and his career. I find it rather amusing that your so quick to stick up for him, post multiple times, then offer no reason to the community. The same community that he asks to support him, his site, his team, makes $$ off of through advertising and streaming. First, I never "defended" Tyler's decision to forfeit. I only defended our decision not to make a thread about it. Look through my posts, not once have I defended the actual action. It isn't mentioned here because it shouldn't be. That's the bottom line. This is a thread about something that is worth having a news topic. I've stated why. It is interesting that you read so much bias into my posts when I never once talked about whether I approved or disapproved of his decision to withdraw. Second, I don't know why Tyler forfeited, so I don't have a viewpoint on it. If it was because "he didn't feel like playing" then yes I think it's a bad decision. If it's because his friend is in the hospital, then I think it's justified. Do I believe he should state why? Yeah I do. Again, none of this is relevant to the thread at hand. If it was any other player, Incontrol, Destiny, Sase, anyone in this tournament else I'd still have the same opinion and act the same way. Of course, you wouldn't be accusing me of bias then so I wouldn't have to make this post. Lastly, the thread doesn't defend or state a viewpoint on who was right. It doesn't villainize Stephano or ONOG, and I think it does a good job of aggregating data and presenting responses and facts. It doesn't push a specific interpretation of who was right in this. Liquid has always been cleaner than the rest. They were always the guys that people gravitated towards because they did it better than the other guys, even when they weren't performing, and they always had fun. What does leaving in the 1st round have to do with being a professional. The bottom line is it isn't professional. Not offering an explanation to your supporters isn't either.
Does Tyler owe anyone an explanation? No, he doesn't. He doesn't have to do a damn thing. Your posts defending him and saying nothing when 70% of his supporters simply want to know "why?". These are the supporters paying his bills, his teams bills, and making this site one of the best on the internet.
Its just an opinion. It's not the most news worthy event but people would like to know. If people want to know then guess what...Thats NEWS!!!!!!!! OMG LIQUID TYLER IS NEWS ON TEAMLIQUID.NET. Again, I am not Tyler. I do not know why he forfeited. Do I want an explanation just like you? Yes, I would like one. What is your point? I didn't defend him, I just don't know why he forfeited. Contrary to you, I actually do think he owes fans and organizers some sort of explanation. I really feel like sometimes people just look really hard for bias when it's not there, I didn't defend Tyler's actions at all in this thread, I just defended our decision not to make a separate thread about him. We'd not make a thread if it was a player of Tyler's stature and caliber even if he was not on Liquid so I don't see the bias. Its liquid tyler, and its teamliquid.net...and tyler forfeiting isn't news? I mean its not spotlight worthy, but its news. That's all I'm saying.
and all hot_bid is saying is that if you feel it is newsworthy, go make an op about it. the tl.net writers didnt feel it was newsworthy so they didnt make an op. but feel free to do it yourself; nobody is stopping you. oh, you dont care enough to write an op? must not be newsworthy then.
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nothing happens here
move on guys..
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On January 31 2012 08:54 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 08:49 dsousa wrote:On January 31 2012 08:45 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 08:43 dsousa wrote:On January 31 2012 08:41 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 08:37 Quakie wrote:
I got ya, Hot_Bid. Doesn't seem like it is bias at place here. Over to the case, Stephano seems to be a very blunt guy, and I think this also got to him here a bit. Its frustrating because even if someone makes a really shitty OP like "Liquid sucks now man" we'd have to consider leaving it open even if we'd instantly close an "EG sucks now man" or "Mouz sucks now man" thread, because people get all wound up about perceived bias. 1. If any other non-Liquid player forfeited first round, we'd not make a thread 2. If Tyler or Ret or Zenio or Hero forfeited in the finals for a similar reason as Stephano did, we'd make a thread You can believe us or not about the truth of these two statements, but that is what we'd do, and if that's the case then there is no hypocrisy here. As for the newsworthiness of this, of course it's news, it's one of the best if not the best non Korean forfeiting in the finals of a semi-major community organized tournament with a 3k prize pool. It's about as concrete news and notable as it gets. Did you make a thread about Polt? We did not make a thread about Polt. Are you saying we should have? Or that us not making a thread about Polt is somehow unfair? Please clarify. Because I am pretty sure we were right not to make a thread about Polt. However, if you feel that there is an epidemic of forfeits and it is discussion worthy, you can make a thread about all of them in SC2 General with a nice OP. Did you make a thread about Polt? You can. I'm just pointing out the fact that this happened to Stephano because he's the "IT" guy right now and this post is feeding the mob. ONOG and Zotac daily are different in notability, structure (invites vs open) and scale (prize pool / viewers). I don't buy the "don't feed the mob." If it's a notable topic worthy of discussion (and this clearly qualifies as concrete news), you present facts and that's it. There are plenty of people defending Stephano in this thread as well as those criticizing him. Do people who are saying "Where's the thread about Tyler or Polt" really believe there should be one? Circumstances matter. This was a much more high profile, bigger event than Zotac, and best foreigner in the finals is not ordinary pro in the first round.
This concept of "thread-worthiness" eludes me... but I do think it is piling on by making it the top story on TL Community News. Why not just a general SC2 post?
I reserve the right to be disappointed with TL for making this the top story of the day. If the tournament was so significant, then Kas winning should be the top story.
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On January 31 2012 09:04 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 09:02 purecarnagge wrote:On January 31 2012 08:33 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 08:21 purecarnagge wrote:On January 31 2012 06:41 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 06:30 eYeball wrote:
Waiting for another thread regarding Tyler to show up any second now, TeamLiquid Esports. I am not sure whether people are actually serious about this, do you really think that there should be a thread every time someone forfeits in a tournament? Do you truly think that "Tyler forfeits round 1 of tournament" is worth a thread by itself? It is not a notable news worthy event. The situation with Stephano in the finals of a major invitational (3k prize pool) is something that never happened before, and about a player who is one of the best (if not the best) non-Koreans. Think about what would happen in either scenario: 1. We make a thread just about Tyler forfeiting People complain because it clearly isn't news worthy. Tyler dropping out in the first round doesn't really affect the tournament. Tyler isn't winning championships and didn't forfeit in the finals. People will say its just TL "hyping another one of their players who doesn't get results" etc. 2. We don't make a thread about Tyler forfeiting People react like they are in this thread Tyler forfeiting doesn't fit in this thread, and isn't even close to the level of notability / newsworthiness that this situation with Stephano is. It seems a bit unfair and far too easy to just point and yell bias all the time. I still don't understand whether people actually believe there should be a thread about Tyler's forfeit or whether they just like finding things to complain about. If it was any other player forfeiting (not Tyler) in the first round, we still wouldn't make a thread about it. On January 31 2012 06:45 Hot_Bid wrote:
I don't understand how people can say its hypocrisy that there is no thread about Tyler when if it was anyone else who forfeits first round (literally anyone, doesn't have to be Liquid) we wouldn't make a thread about it.
To summarize:
1. Anyone forfeiting first round, no thread, not newsworthy
2. One of the best foreigners forfeiting invitational right before finals, yes thread
#1 doesn't matter if it's Liquid, there wouldn't be a thread about Destiny or Flo or Incontrol or anyone else forfeiting first round, this should be obvious to anyone. There is no special treatment for Tyler. While I understand ONOGs position of wanting to clarify the situation with Stephano especially after such a lengthy delay in there schedule. I just find it completely odd that nobody wants to mention the other withdrawal from the tournament. That being Liquid Tyler. While I would like to think that Tyler understands being a professional more than most in this industry and his career. I find it rather amusing that your so quick to stick up for him, post multiple times, then offer no reason to the community. The same community that he asks to support him, his site, his team, makes $$ off of through advertising and streaming. First, I never "defended" Tyler's decision to forfeit. I only defended our decision not to make a thread about it. Look through my posts, not once have I defended the actual action. It isn't mentioned here because it shouldn't be. That's the bottom line. This is a thread about something that is worth having a news topic. I've stated why. It is interesting that you read so much bias into my posts when I never once talked about whether I approved or disapproved of his decision to withdraw. Second, I don't know why Tyler forfeited, so I don't have a viewpoint on it. If it was because "he didn't feel like playing" then yes I think it's a bad decision. If it's because his friend is in the hospital, then I think it's justified. Do I believe he should state why? Yeah I do. Again, none of this is relevant to the thread at hand. If it was any other player, Incontrol, Destiny, Sase, anyone in this tournament else I'd still have the same opinion and act the same way. Of course, you wouldn't be accusing me of bias then so I wouldn't have to make this post. Lastly, the thread doesn't defend or state a viewpoint on who was right. It doesn't villainize Stephano or ONOG, and I think it does a good job of aggregating data and presenting responses and facts. It doesn't push a specific interpretation of who was right in this. Liquid has always been cleaner than the rest. They were always the guys that people gravitated towards because they did it better than the other guys, even when they weren't performing, and they always had fun. What does leaving in the 1st round have to do with being a professional. The bottom line is it isn't professional. Not offering an explanation to your supporters isn't either.
Does Tyler owe anyone an explanation? No, he doesn't. He doesn't have to do a damn thing. Your posts defending him and saying nothing when 70% of his supporters simply want to know "why?". These are the supporters paying his bills, his teams bills, and making this site one of the best on the internet.
Its just an opinion. It's not the most news worthy event but people would like to know. If people want to know then guess what...Thats NEWS!!!!!!!! OMG LIQUID TYLER IS NEWS ON TEAMLIQUID.NET. Again, I am not Tyler. I do not know why he forfeited. Do I want an explanation just like you? Yes, I would like one. What is your point? I didn't defend him, I just don't know why he forfeited. Contrary to you, I actually do think he owes fans and organizers some sort of explanation. I really feel like sometimes people just look really hard for bias when it's not there, I didn't defend Tyler's actions at all in this thread, I just defended our decision not to make a separate thread about him. We'd not make a thread if it was a player of Tyler's stature and caliber even if he was not on Liquid so I don't see the bias. Its liquid tyler, and its teamliquid.net...and tyler forfeiting isn't news? I mean its not spotlight worthy, but its news. That's all I'm saying. We are simply treating Tyler like we would any other pro in his position in NOT making a thread about it. Are you really suggesting, after many posts of complaining and accusing us of bias, that we SHOULD do this simply because it's a Liquid player? WTF?
Make sure everyone goes back and updates Liquipedia and posts new threads for everyone in the past forfeiting first round games...
/sarcasm
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On January 31 2012 09:02 Hot_Bid wrote:
As for my personal thoughts on this, I think there's blame to be handed to everyone.
Stephano for not just picking one event and going with it, or knowing what he's getting into with the time. At the minimum he should apologize or seem a bit more reserved in his statements after the fact, I think a lot of people are just upset because he seems to brush it off like it's no big deal.
ONOG should not delay their tournament for one player just because he's popular. It's a difficult decision but it's more fair for everyone else. Illusion made a good point, would they have delayed it for hours for him? Probably not. They allowed Stephano to play in another tournament that delayed their own, the result was compounding delay that screwed over their finals. They are partly to blame too and next time I would not be surprised if they have a "no two tournaments" rule. We've always had this rule for TL Opens as well.
The two tournaments didn't actually overlap, but one finished just before the other, Stephano then asked and was given permission to take a break, and while it's impossible to know for sure he could reasonably have assumed they'd play the other semi final while he was taking that break.
I agree that in general for anything with any kind of significant prize pool it would be better to have a one tournament per day rule though.
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Lord_J
Kenya1085 Posts
Unfortunate. This kind of misconduct has a way of coming back and biting players in the ass, and I wouldn't be surprised if more than one tournament in the future quietly decides to give an invite to a more dependable, professional player instead. You'd think after incidents like CoCa/Byun and NaNiwa's probe rush players would put a little more thought into how they conduct themselves in tournaments, but I guess Stephano didn't get the memo.
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I personally feel like ONOG should have waited. It will look weird on the vods.
That being said, it's Stephano's fault for being immature. You shouldn't commit to something you're not going to finish, and if you're going to quit completely, you shouldn't even get 4th place prize money. He should consider himself blessed he's even getting five hundred euros or whatever.
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On January 31 2012 09:04 Bashion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 09:01 MandoRelease wrote:On January 31 2012 08:53 Dawg_Snow wrote:
I don t get why TL opened a thread in community news for a player forfeiting a tournament. Are you guys trying to increase drama and hate toward a player ? Is it what TL is for ? This is ridiculous I don't think it is to increase hate. There was already a discussion on the matter, this was just moved from the thread of the tournament, to a new thread specifically addressing the issue. Stephano had a selfish & disgraceful behaviour, and it is good to discuss it to prevent such actions to happen in the futur, for everyone's sake. There was bad management from the player, which the rules in the tournament did not anticipate. It is good to discuss it. Yeah there's a bit of hate here and there, he can deal with it and hopefully move on to be less of a kid, and more of a progamer. I respect your point, Mando. But why didnt Liquid say anything about Tyler forfeiting? If Stephanos behavior was selfish and disgraceful, so was Tyler's.
If i may, just from my point of view.. I actually didnt feel any impact of his (edit: Tyler) forfeit. But i did wait about an hour yesterday for him (edit: Stephano) to show up (he asked for the time, and it was granted) just to see him forfeit like 90 minutes or what later.
That actually is kinda a way bigger deal for me at least.
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On January 31 2012 09:04 mathsucks wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 09:02 Malinor wrote:On January 31 2012 08:56 mathsucks wrote:On January 31 2012 08:55 Malinor wrote:
I really cannot understand how this made the front page. But Stephano handled that very poorly, I agree. Caster moves make the front page....why is everyone in an uproar about this on the front page? As I just editet, I just think the scale of the tournament is just way too small, forfeits in smaller tournaments happen all the time, and 3k one week-end is just too little in my personal opinion. Regarding the caster move making the front page, this is basically one of the top casters during the last few years, in the biggest esports country in the world, going to cover SC2. I think that is quite notable news. Unfortunately, your "personal opinion" doesnt run TL.net.
But I am allowed to voice it, as do others with other personal opinions. It is basically called feedback, the people that run TL can do whatever they choose with that feedback.
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On January 31 2012 09:03 Kloudi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 09:02 Hot_Bid wrote:
As for my personal thoughts on this, I think there's blame to be handed to everyone.
Stephano for not just picking one event and going with it, or knowing what he's getting into with the time. At the minimum he should apologize or seem a bit more reserved in his statements after the fact, I think a lot of people are just upset because he seems to brush it off like it's no big deal.
ONOG should not delay their tournament for one player just because he's popular. It's a difficult decision but it's more fair for everyone else. Illusion made a good point, would they have delayed it for hours for him? Probably not. They allowed Stephano to play in another tournament that delayed their own, the result was compounding delay that screwed over their finals. They are partly to blame too and next time I would not be surprised if they have a "no two tournaments" rule. We've always had this rule for TL Opens as well. so caster should apologize too for bashing a nation no ?
casters should not bash nations. if they had done so on tl.net, they would likely have been handed retribution. tl.net doesn't control onog's casters. if you want to complain, complain to the caster and event organizers.
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On January 31 2012 08:54 jexxto wrote:Show nested quote +MillStephano @MillStephano
And the racist coments abut french people is not necessary : ) Racist comments "abut" french people are always necessary!! It's totally understandable why he was relegated to 4th and also why he deciede to forfeit. Nobody was really in the wrong here, shit happens.
Sorry, but Stephano is in the wrong. He could have pulled out earlier instead of asking everyone to wait.
Doing that and then getting to the finals and saying 'you know what, fuck this. cyas' leaves ONOG high and dry for the climax of their event. They got screwed.
Stephano did the worst possible thing he could have done. ANYTHING else would have been better.
Sums it up.
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On January 31 2012 09:06 Malinor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 09:04 mathsucks wrote:On January 31 2012 09:02 Malinor wrote:On January 31 2012 08:56 mathsucks wrote:On January 31 2012 08:55 Malinor wrote:
I really cannot understand how this made the front page. But Stephano handled that very poorly, I agree. Caster moves make the front page....why is everyone in an uproar about this on the front page? As I just editet, I just think the scale of the tournament is just way too small, forfeits in smaller tournaments happen all the time, and 3k one week-end is just too little in my personal opinion. Regarding the caster move making the front page, this is basically one of the top casters during the last few years, in the biggest esports country in the world, going to cover SC2. I think that is quite notable news. Unfortunately, your "personal opinion" doesnt run TL.net. But I am allowed to voice it, as do others with other personal opinions. It is basically called feedback, the people that run TL can do whatever they choose with that feedback.
I understand, let me guide you to the proper place so they will hear your complaints....so they don't get buried in a multipage thread.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=7
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Braavos36399 Posts
On January 31 2012 09:05 dsousa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 08:54 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 08:49 dsousa wrote:On January 31 2012 08:45 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 08:43 dsousa wrote:On January 31 2012 08:41 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 08:37 Quakie wrote:
I got ya, Hot_Bid. Doesn't seem like it is bias at place here. Over to the case, Stephano seems to be a very blunt guy, and I think this also got to him here a bit. Its frustrating because even if someone makes a really shitty OP like "Liquid sucks now man" we'd have to consider leaving it open even if we'd instantly close an "EG sucks now man" or "Mouz sucks now man" thread, because people get all wound up about perceived bias. 1. If any other non-Liquid player forfeited first round, we'd not make a thread 2. If Tyler or Ret or Zenio or Hero forfeited in the finals for a similar reason as Stephano did, we'd make a thread You can believe us or not about the truth of these two statements, but that is what we'd do, and if that's the case then there is no hypocrisy here. As for the newsworthiness of this, of course it's news, it's one of the best if not the best non Korean forfeiting in the finals of a semi-major community organized tournament with a 3k prize pool. It's about as concrete news and notable as it gets. Did you make a thread about Polt? We did not make a thread about Polt. Are you saying we should have? Or that us not making a thread about Polt is somehow unfair? Please clarify. Because I am pretty sure we were right not to make a thread about Polt. However, if you feel that there is an epidemic of forfeits and it is discussion worthy, you can make a thread about all of them in SC2 General with a nice OP. Did you make a thread about Polt? You can. I'm just pointing out the fact that this happened to Stephano because he's the "IT" guy right now and this post is feeding the mob. ONOG and Zotac daily are different in notability, structure (invites vs open) and scale (prize pool / viewers). I don't buy the "don't feed the mob." If it's a notable topic worthy of discussion (and this clearly qualifies as concrete news), you present facts and that's it. There are plenty of people defending Stephano in this thread as well as those criticizing him. Do people who are saying "Where's the thread about Tyler or Polt" really believe there should be one? Circumstances matter. This was a much more high profile, bigger event than Zotac, and best foreigner in the finals is not ordinary pro in the first round. This concept of "thread-worthiness" eludes me... but I do think it is piling on by making it the top story on TL Community News. Why not just a general SC2 post? I reserve the right to be disappointed with TL for making this the top story of the day. If the tournament was so significant, then Kas winning should be the top story.
In the future, we will be making news changes to have headlines with results too. I agree that in a perfect world the top story should be Kas winning, but the reality is that the Stephano forfeit eclipses the actual results of the tournament. We are simply reporting on this which has become the biggest most notable story of the event, which is unfortunate but the harsh truth.
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On January 31 2012 09:05 AgentChaos wrote:
nothing happens here
move on guys..
This times ten
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IMO if that finals was for more than just 1500 then...
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On January 31 2012 09:08 Corsica wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 09:05 AgentChaos wrote:
nothing happens here
move on guys.. This times ten
If everyone wants it to die, why are you bumping the thread?
:\
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On January 31 2012 08:52 disciple wrote:
A couple of hours earlier the same day I was privileged to watch a 6 hours long tennis match that epitomized the very essence of professional sport - the resilience to overcome all physical and mental challenges, the determination to win, to entertain spectators and fans regardless of fatigue and pain. Now, there's no need to compare Stephano with Djokovic and Nadal, but speaking of professionalism what Stephano did was insulting to his profession to say the least.
The difference in term of incentives between a Grand Chelem (around a 1 M $) and those of the ONOG (around 1.5 K $) is significant.
But that's not everything, when a professional tennis player decides to forfeit a match in a smaller tournament to preserve himself for a next one - bigger - like Tsonga often do for Rolland Garros, nobody is criticizing him for being insulting to the profession because every other person knows his body and mindset are his sole way to make money.
If you don't see the problem in your opinion right now, I will just left you and the other paragons of virtue who are keen to lash the hounds onto everyone not deemed worthy of their supposed superiority that professional sport is a job which means it is about making money. When the rewards isn't worth the care, nobody will do the job ... to say the least.
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I for one appreciate this being posted as news on TL. I didn't even know about this tournament or this incident beforehand so I found this thread very informative, and I'm glad I found out what happened.
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On January 31 2012 09:05 dsousa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 08:54 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 08:49 dsousa wrote:On January 31 2012 08:45 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 08:43 dsousa wrote:On January 31 2012 08:41 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 08:37 Quakie wrote:
I got ya, Hot_Bid. Doesn't seem like it is bias at place here. Over to the case, Stephano seems to be a very blunt guy, and I think this also got to him here a bit. Its frustrating because even if someone makes a really shitty OP like "Liquid sucks now man" we'd have to consider leaving it open even if we'd instantly close an "EG sucks now man" or "Mouz sucks now man" thread, because people get all wound up about perceived bias. 1. If any other non-Liquid player forfeited first round, we'd not make a thread 2. If Tyler or Ret or Zenio or Hero forfeited in the finals for a similar reason as Stephano did, we'd make a thread You can believe us or not about the truth of these two statements, but that is what we'd do, and if that's the case then there is no hypocrisy here. As for the newsworthiness of this, of course it's news, it's one of the best if not the best non Korean forfeiting in the finals of a semi-major community organized tournament with a 3k prize pool. It's about as concrete news and notable as it gets. Did you make a thread about Polt? We did not make a thread about Polt. Are you saying we should have? Or that us not making a thread about Polt is somehow unfair? Please clarify. Because I am pretty sure we were right not to make a thread about Polt. However, if you feel that there is an epidemic of forfeits and it is discussion worthy, you can make a thread about all of them in SC2 General with a nice OP. Did you make a thread about Polt? You can. I'm just pointing out the fact that this happened to Stephano because he's the "IT" guy right now and this post is feeding the mob. ONOG and Zotac daily are different in notability, structure (invites vs open) and scale (prize pool / viewers). I don't buy the "don't feed the mob." If it's a notable topic worthy of discussion (and this clearly qualifies as concrete news), you present facts and that's it. There are plenty of people defending Stephano in this thread as well as those criticizing him. Do people who are saying "Where's the thread about Tyler or Polt" really believe there should be one? Circumstances matter. This was a much more high profile, bigger event than Zotac, and best foreigner in the finals is not ordinary pro in the first round. This concept of "thread-worthiness" eludes me... but I do think it is piling on by making it the top story on TL Community News. Why not just a general SC2 post? I reserve the right to be disappointed with TL for making this the top story of the day. If the tournament was so significant, then Kas winning should be the top story.
Stephano also forfeited  Sennheiser Cup/Season 2 when he was in the semifinals and TL didn't make a thread about it. So you're wrong.
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EPT
