|
On January 24 2012 08:43 Primadog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 08:41 jidolboy wrote:On January 24 2012 08:34 DigitalD[562] wrote:
I have a hopeful outlook on the eventual switch of the BW teams. KeSPA (and it's teams) can NOT make sustainable money solely in Korea. The need for foreign fans, and the sponsorships that come with that hopefully force KeSPA to adopt a more inclusive attitude. ??? I hope this is a troll post. BW sponsers will gain nothing if they open more toward foreign scene (except for Samsung.) Is that why they tried to host an OSL finals in China?
....
Maybe because korean air is international? Herp derp
|
On January 24 2012 08:41 jidolboy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 08:34 DigitalD[562] wrote:
I have a hopeful outlook on the eventual switch of the BW teams. KeSPA (and it's teams) can NOT make sustainable money solely in Korea. The need for foreign fans, and the sponsorships that come with that hopefully force KeSPA to adopt a more inclusive attitude. ??? I hope this is a troll post. BW sponsers will gain nothing if they open more toward foreign scene (except for Samsung.)
To be fair, it could attract NEW large Korean international sponsors (Hyundai anyone?)
Furthermore, when I'm at the Korean Supermarket, I buy certain things because they support Brood War and SC2 as opposed to the alternatives.
|
On January 24 2012 07:01 Phays wrote:To bad BW is still bigger in korea..hopefully that will change this year or the next! 
At this rate, SC2 dying will happen faster than BW dying because of LoL coming into the picture, and SC2 still getting less fans than BW proleague.
|
im sad because kespa and bw teams will have to switch sooner o later, esports dies in Korea, and they really need foreign money (kinda like what gom does nowadays), i hope for at least good OSL or 2 
LoL and Kpop is coming, will be so hard for SC both 1 and 2.
|
On January 24 2012 08:52 bgx wrote:im sad because kespa and bw teams will have to switch sooner o later, esports dies in Korea, and they really need foreign money (kinda like what gom does nowadays), i hope for at least good OSL or 2 LoL and Kpop is coming, will be so hard for SC both 1 and 2.
Err, how do they need foreign money if they are sustaining themselves on a much higher cost level than GOM is?
|
On January 24 2012 07:38 Milkis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 06:08 Longshank wrote:On January 24 2012 05:25 Milkis wrote:On January 24 2012 04:49 Longshank wrote:On January 24 2012 03:15 Milkis wrote:On January 24 2012 02:22 jayhorn wrote:
IIRC GOM has exclusive rights to SC2 TV in Korea until 2013, because KeSPA didn't want to negotiate with Blizzard and there are not very good relations between the two. GOM were happy to work with Blizzard so I don't see why a new contract can't be negotiated for 2013 and beyond. If I am totally wrong on this some1 please correct me.
Personally I think KeSPA should GTFO and SC2 should have it's own governing body, to protect teams and players from the BW teams with mo' money and all that jazz.
It's a long story and tldr, it's Blizzard's greedy fault. Thanks to this everything is in quite an awkward position cause blizzard wants kespa to go into sc2 but they can't cause of Gom and now Gom and KeSPA have to work things out which is going to be quite difficult. Quite amusingly it was blizzard who stepped in when Gom and KeSPA were pretty close to negotiating regarding BW to sue, and now it's on an even more awkward status lol Blizzard forced KeSPA to cooperate. I can see though how that is awkward for them, most things are when doing something you're not used to. I'm pretty sure it was Blizzard who backed down. KeSPA did not -- or rather they couldn't have because they... actually don't have money because they don't operate on a profit. Proleague, for example, is operated literally on Government Subsidy and a "fee" from all the teams, plus the broadcast fees they charge the stations. Blizzard did force KeSPA to cooperate with GOM though regarding SC2 rights (not Brood War), but that's a whole different story. Again, the issue was literally because Blizzard trying to get money from the scene that doesn't have any because of how they operate and how bad Korean fans are. This big mistake is pretty much one if the bigger reasons why the scene is struggling in Korea. That entire IP rights debacle did more damage to Korean E-Sports than anything that has happened in Korea =( Both sides gave up ground in the negotiations, who 'backed down' is quite irrelevant and highly subjective. It all depends on initial positions and outcome in relation what your goal was. That is a futile debate. My point was that two years ago KeSPA could do whatever they wanted and pretty much did. Now after the conflict they're forced to cooperate both with Blizzard and GOM(for a while at least). That is a new position for them. Of course KESPA were also douchebags about it cause they (supposedly/rumoredly) had the attitude "It's not like they can run SC2 without us" and probably did some underhanded shit. Blizzard gets mad due to KeSPA's BS attitude and this escalates down into a war where Blizzard eventually backs down because SC2 is tanking in korea despite all the money Blizzard had poured into it and they also realize KeSPA has no money.It's not completely blizzard's fault cause KeSPA is really bad at making money and the korean fans are also kind of douchey and refuse to pay for anything related to esports. So yeah Blizzard being greedy, KeSPA being incompetent/unprofessional. There you go.
I remember those discussions something like 2 years ago now where people were posting about Blizzard's ridiculously strong position and how every Korean was going to play SC2 immediately no matter what so Kespa might as well give in.
It's kind of sad though that something that had so much potential in the Korean market became what it is today. Sure it's doing okay, but nowhere close to as big as anyone expected.
Of course, a lot of this is due to Blizzard's shitty marketing with the PC bangs dealings and all that jazz, which while they're definitely within their rights to do; it was absolutely shitty.
EDIT: On a side note, Milkis, you got a seriously bright future ahead of you. B/c damn you're smart. o-O
|
On January 23 2012 17:15 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Oh shit? hints at Happy joining a foreign team??
Actually I think it implies that Happy hasn't actually received offers from foreign teams, because Nestea thinks he might go if he got a good offer. This surprises me, he's probably the best value player in the world because he's low profile despite being probably one of the top 5 Terrans in the world simply because he's so overshadowed by MVP. Maybe this article will make some team realise that they should buy him (please Nazgul get him for Liquid).
|
On January 24 2012 07:38 Milkis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 06:08 Longshank wrote:On January 24 2012 05:25 Milkis wrote:On January 24 2012 04:49 Longshank wrote:On January 24 2012 03:15 Milkis wrote:On January 24 2012 02:22 jayhorn wrote:
IIRC GOM has exclusive rights to SC2 TV in Korea until 2013, because KeSPA didn't want to negotiate with Blizzard and there are not very good relations between the two. GOM were happy to work with Blizzard so I don't see why a new contract can't be negotiated for 2013 and beyond. If I am totally wrong on this some1 please correct me.
Personally I think KeSPA should GTFO and SC2 should have it's own governing body, to protect teams and players from the BW teams with mo' money and all that jazz.
It's a long story and tldr, it's Blizzard's greedy fault. Thanks to this everything is in quite an awkward position cause blizzard wants kespa to go into sc2 but they can't cause of Gom and now Gom and KeSPA have to work things out which is going to be quite difficult. Quite amusingly it was blizzard who stepped in when Gom and KeSPA were pretty close to negotiating regarding BW to sue, and now it's on an even more awkward status lol Blizzard forced KeSPA to cooperate. I can see though how that is awkward for them, most things are when doing something you're not used to. I'm pretty sure it was Blizzard who backed down. KeSPA did not -- or rather they couldn't have because they... actually don't have money because they don't operate on a profit. Proleague, for example, is operated literally on Government Subsidy and a "fee" from all the teams, plus the broadcast fees they charge the stations. Blizzard did force KeSPA to cooperate with GOM though regarding SC2 rights (not Brood War), but that's a whole different story. Again, the issue was literally because Blizzard trying to get money from the scene that doesn't have any because of how they operate and how bad Korean fans are. This big mistake is pretty much one if the bigger reasons why the scene is struggling in Korea. That entire IP rights debacle did more damage to Korean E-Sports than anything that has happened in Korea =( Both sides gave up ground in the negotiations, who 'backed down' is quite irrelevant and highly subjective. It all depends on initial positions and outcome in relation what your goal was. That is a futile debate. My point was that two years ago KeSPA could do whatever they wanted and pretty much did. Now after the conflict they're forced to cooperate both with Blizzard and GOM(for a while at least). That is a new position for them. There was no negotiations at the point of backing down, you have to realize. Blizzard after a given point made some ridiculous ultimatum that halted KeSPA-GOM negotiations that were going along quite well and forced everyone to court. They dropped the case and did a 180 after finally realizing there isn't money to be made. Playing politics isn't too difficult. "cooperating" isn't as hard as you think it is, but the hard part is that GOM always wanted to make sure that KeSPA's league don't compete with theirs -- GOM was afraid of KeSPA getting BW rights on the same timeslot as GOM, for example -- and I'm pretty sure GOM wants to make sure that they are going to be the premiere league and not Proleague or OSL2. Your statement about "awkwardness" seem rather weird because there's no reason to believe that KeSPA is in an awkward situation because "they dont get to do whatever they want", that just sounds terribly spiteful. Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 07:19 Jamial wrote:On January 24 2012 05:25 Milkis wrote:On January 24 2012 04:49 Longshank wrote:On January 24 2012 03:15 Milkis wrote:On January 24 2012 02:22 jayhorn wrote:
IIRC GOM has exclusive rights to SC2 TV in Korea until 2013, because KeSPA didn't want to negotiate with Blizzard and there are not very good relations between the two. GOM were happy to work with Blizzard so I don't see why a new contract can't be negotiated for 2013 and beyond. If I am totally wrong on this some1 please correct me.
Personally I think KeSPA should GTFO and SC2 should have it's own governing body, to protect teams and players from the BW teams with mo' money and all that jazz.
It's a long story and tldr, it's Blizzard's greedy fault. Thanks to this everything is in quite an awkward position cause blizzard wants kespa to go into sc2 but they can't cause of Gom and now Gom and KeSPA have to work things out which is going to be quite difficult. Quite amusingly it was blizzard who stepped in when Gom and KeSPA were pretty close to negotiating regarding BW to sue, and now it's on an even more awkward status lol Blizzard forced KeSPA to cooperate. I can see though how that is awkward for them, most things are when doing something you're not used to. I'm pretty sure it was Blizzard who backed down. KeSPA did not -- or rather they couldn't have because they... actually don't have money because they don't operate on a profit. Proleague, for example, is operated literally on Government Subsidy and a "fee" from all the teams, plus the broadcast fees they charge the stations. Blizzard did force KeSPA to cooperate with GOM though regarding SC2 rights (not Brood War), but that's a whole different story. Again, the issue was literally because Blizzard trying to get money from the scene that doesn't have any because of how they operate and how bad Korean fans are. This big mistake is pretty much one if the bigger reasons why the scene is struggling in Korea. That entire IP rights debacle did more damage to Korean E-Sports than anything that has happened in Korea =( How are Blizzard being greedy for not wanting to negotiate with an organisation that doesn't respect their IP? For a new-comer to the scene, KeSPA seems the all-controllong, negative entity in Korean SW:BW scene. I haven't heard more than a few good things about KeSPA, but loads of bad things. Why do they force all teams to be equal, why do we get so few tournaments a year? How are the fans in Korea "bad"? I like how SC2 is now, and I wish for BW pros to switch, because that would increase the level of play. But I don't want KeSPA to come in and dictate everything. Cause Blizzard only cared about IP rights when money was being made and they wanted a piece of it. Blizzard started caring about IP rights when KeSPA decided they want to charge OGN/MBC for Proleague because "they run Proleague at a deficit" and sold the rights to it. The second money was involved, Blizzard flew in and told them they wanted a share of the pot on selling them, KeSPA refused because they claimed that they run on a deficit meaning they don't have money to give to blizzard to begin with and it meant that more money was coming out of sponsors pockets for PL/OSL/MSL. Of course KESPA were also douchebags about it cause they (supposedly/rumoredly) had the attitude "It's not like they can run SC2 without us" and probably did some underhanded shit. Blizzard gets mad due to KeSPA's BS attitude and this escalates down into a war where Blizzard eventually backs down because SC2 is tanking in korea despite all the money Blizzard had poured into it and they also realize KeSPA has no money. It's not completely blizzard's fault cause KeSPA is really bad at making money and the korean fans are also kind of douchey and refuse to pay for anything related to esports. So yeah Blizzard being greedy, KeSPA being incompetent/unprofessional. There you go.
That's a clearer answer, thank you very much for that! - And yes, it does seem both Blizzard and KeSPA are at fault, though I must say I am very unimpressed with how KeSPA does business, and their inability to adapt. It doesn't bode well for their entry into SC2, especially if they still won't bend at all on some of their attitudes toward eSports, and the pros that play.
|
if they make their own league , sc2 current players could make an all star team to go against them too...
|
On January 24 2012 08:41 1sz2sz3sz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 08:34 DigitalD[562] wrote:
I have a hopeful outlook on the eventual switch of the BW teams. KeSPA (and it's teams) can NOT make sustainable money solely in Korea. The need for foreign fans, and the sponsorships that come with that hopefully force KeSPA to adopt a more inclusive attitude. But most of the BW teams have no reason to advertise aboard besides maybe Samsung
True, most BW teams don't have to seek foreign dollars, and that doesn't matter too much. But OGN on the other hand has REALLY good reasons ($) to seek out those advertisers. Catering to international audiences will help OGN and all other teams by association. In my perfect world, something like this is possible.
|
On January 24 2012 09:03 wklbishop wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 07:38 Milkis wrote:On January 24 2012 06:08 Longshank wrote:On January 24 2012 05:25 Milkis wrote:On January 24 2012 04:49 Longshank wrote:On January 24 2012 03:15 Milkis wrote:On January 24 2012 02:22 jayhorn wrote:
IIRC GOM has exclusive rights to SC2 TV in Korea until 2013, because KeSPA didn't want to negotiate with Blizzard and there are not very good relations between the two. GOM were happy to work with Blizzard so I don't see why a new contract can't be negotiated for 2013 and beyond. If I am totally wrong on this some1 please correct me.
Personally I think KeSPA should GTFO and SC2 should have it's own governing body, to protect teams and players from the BW teams with mo' money and all that jazz.
It's a long story and tldr, it's Blizzard's greedy fault. Thanks to this everything is in quite an awkward position cause blizzard wants kespa to go into sc2 but they can't cause of Gom and now Gom and KeSPA have to work things out which is going to be quite difficult. Quite amusingly it was blizzard who stepped in when Gom and KeSPA were pretty close to negotiating regarding BW to sue, and now it's on an even more awkward status lol Blizzard forced KeSPA to cooperate. I can see though how that is awkward for them, most things are when doing something you're not used to. I'm pretty sure it was Blizzard who backed down. KeSPA did not -- or rather they couldn't have because they... actually don't have money because they don't operate on a profit. Proleague, for example, is operated literally on Government Subsidy and a "fee" from all the teams, plus the broadcast fees they charge the stations. Blizzard did force KeSPA to cooperate with GOM though regarding SC2 rights (not Brood War), but that's a whole different story. Again, the issue was literally because Blizzard trying to get money from the scene that doesn't have any because of how they operate and how bad Korean fans are. This big mistake is pretty much one if the bigger reasons why the scene is struggling in Korea. That entire IP rights debacle did more damage to Korean E-Sports than anything that has happened in Korea =( Both sides gave up ground in the negotiations, who 'backed down' is quite irrelevant and highly subjective. It all depends on initial positions and outcome in relation what your goal was. That is a futile debate. My point was that two years ago KeSPA could do whatever they wanted and pretty much did. Now after the conflict they're forced to cooperate both with Blizzard and GOM(for a while at least). That is a new position for them. Of course KESPA were also douchebags about it cause they (supposedly/rumoredly) had the attitude "It's not like they can run SC2 without us" and probably did some underhanded shit. Blizzard gets mad due to KeSPA's BS attitude and this escalates down into a war where Blizzard eventually backs down because SC2 is tanking in korea despite all the money Blizzard had poured into it and they also realize KeSPA has no money.It's not completely blizzard's fault cause KeSPA is really bad at making money and the korean fans are also kind of douchey and refuse to pay for anything related to esports. So yeah Blizzard being greedy, KeSPA being incompetent/unprofessional. There you go. I remember those discussions something like 2 years ago now where people were posting about Blizzard's ridiculously strong position and how every Korean was going to play SC2 immediately no matter what so Kespa might as well give in. It's kind of sad though that something that had so much potential in the Korean market became what it is today. Sure it's doing okay, but nowhere close to as big as anyone expected. Of course, a lot of this is due to Blizzard's shitty marketing with the PC bangs dealings and all that jazz, which while they're definitely within their rights to do; it was absolutely shitty. EDIT: On a side note, Milkis, you got a seriously bright future ahead of you. B/c damn you're smart. o-O
It's more than just that though. The market has changed drastically as well. It's been said many times over. BW was all about the right timing. A total fluke.
Lightning didn't strike twice.
|
On January 24 2012 10:17 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 09:03 wklbishop wrote:On January 24 2012 07:38 Milkis wrote:On January 24 2012 06:08 Longshank wrote:On January 24 2012 05:25 Milkis wrote:On January 24 2012 04:49 Longshank wrote:On January 24 2012 03:15 Milkis wrote:On January 24 2012 02:22 jayhorn wrote:
IIRC GOM has exclusive rights to SC2 TV in Korea until 2013, because KeSPA didn't want to negotiate with Blizzard and there are not very good relations between the two. GOM were happy to work with Blizzard so I don't see why a new contract can't be negotiated for 2013 and beyond. If I am totally wrong on this some1 please correct me.
Personally I think KeSPA should GTFO and SC2 should have it's own governing body, to protect teams and players from the BW teams with mo' money and all that jazz.
It's a long story and tldr, it's Blizzard's greedy fault. Thanks to this everything is in quite an awkward position cause blizzard wants kespa to go into sc2 but they can't cause of Gom and now Gom and KeSPA have to work things out which is going to be quite difficult. Quite amusingly it was blizzard who stepped in when Gom and KeSPA were pretty close to negotiating regarding BW to sue, and now it's on an even more awkward status lol Blizzard forced KeSPA to cooperate. I can see though how that is awkward for them, most things are when doing something you're not used to. I'm pretty sure it was Blizzard who backed down. KeSPA did not -- or rather they couldn't have because they... actually don't have money because they don't operate on a profit. Proleague, for example, is operated literally on Government Subsidy and a "fee" from all the teams, plus the broadcast fees they charge the stations. Blizzard did force KeSPA to cooperate with GOM though regarding SC2 rights (not Brood War), but that's a whole different story. Again, the issue was literally because Blizzard trying to get money from the scene that doesn't have any because of how they operate and how bad Korean fans are. This big mistake is pretty much one if the bigger reasons why the scene is struggling in Korea. That entire IP rights debacle did more damage to Korean E-Sports than anything that has happened in Korea =( Both sides gave up ground in the negotiations, who 'backed down' is quite irrelevant and highly subjective. It all depends on initial positions and outcome in relation what your goal was. That is a futile debate. My point was that two years ago KeSPA could do whatever they wanted and pretty much did. Now after the conflict they're forced to cooperate both with Blizzard and GOM(for a while at least). That is a new position for them. Of course KESPA were also douchebags about it cause they (supposedly/rumoredly) had the attitude "It's not like they can run SC2 without us" and probably did some underhanded shit. Blizzard gets mad due to KeSPA's BS attitude and this escalates down into a war where Blizzard eventually backs down because SC2 is tanking in korea despite all the money Blizzard had poured into it and they also realize KeSPA has no money.It's not completely blizzard's fault cause KeSPA is really bad at making money and the korean fans are also kind of douchey and refuse to pay for anything related to esports. So yeah Blizzard being greedy, KeSPA being incompetent/unprofessional. There you go. I remember those discussions something like 2 years ago now where people were posting about Blizzard's ridiculously strong position and how every Korean was going to play SC2 immediately no matter what so Kespa might as well give in. It's kind of sad though that something that had so much potential in the Korean market became what it is today. Sure it's doing okay, but nowhere close to as big as anyone expected. Of course, a lot of this is due to Blizzard's shitty marketing with the PC bangs dealings and all that jazz, which while they're definitely within their rights to do; it was absolutely shitty. EDIT: On a side note, Milkis, you got a seriously bright future ahead of you. B/c damn you're smart. o-O It's more than just that though. The market has changed drastically as well. It's been said many times over. BW was all about the right timing. A total fluke. Lightning didn't strike twice.
Thank you for saying this,.its a point worth re-iterating. BW as a phenomenon will never ever ever ever happen again.
In terms of raw numbers, LoL is looking to be the heir to BW more than SC2 is, depending on how KeSPA and OGN play it.
|
I keep on seeing in recent posts something along the lines of "Lower tier players need to make more(or a minimum to live/what have you)
Here is the thing with that, If you cant make a good enough living off of starcraft then pick another career. It's no different for any other sport honestly. Most Muay Thai fighters actually have to pay to compete when at lower levels. And even boxers fighting on ESPN get paid 200-300 for a fight that they trained for 6-8 weeks. I think this entitlement that lower tier players seem to have as far as getting paid more is rediculous. Especially when the money isn't in ESPORTS to pay everyone a minimum. Also , these are tournaments, not show matches. There is a difference.
On January 24 2012 10:25 Klonere wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 10:17 StarStruck wrote:On January 24 2012 09:03 wklbishop wrote:On January 24 2012 07:38 Milkis wrote:On January 24 2012 06:08 Longshank wrote:On January 24 2012 05:25 Milkis wrote:On January 24 2012 04:49 Longshank wrote:On January 24 2012 03:15 Milkis wrote:On January 24 2012 02:22 jayhorn wrote:
IIRC GOM has exclusive rights to SC2 TV in Korea until 2013, because KeSPA didn't want to negotiate with Blizzard and there are not very good relations between the two. GOM were happy to work with Blizzard so I don't see why a new contract can't be negotiated for 2013 and beyond. If I am totally wrong on this some1 please correct me.
Personally I think KeSPA should GTFO and SC2 should have it's own governing body, to protect teams and players from the BW teams with mo' money and all that jazz.
It's a long story and tldr, it's Blizzard's greedy fault. Thanks to this everything is in quite an awkward position cause blizzard wants kespa to go into sc2 but they can't cause of Gom and now Gom and KeSPA have to work things out which is going to be quite difficult. Quite amusingly it was blizzard who stepped in when Gom and KeSPA were pretty close to negotiating regarding BW to sue, and now it's on an even more awkward status lol Blizzard forced KeSPA to cooperate. I can see though how that is awkward for them, most things are when doing something you're not used to. I'm pretty sure it was Blizzard who backed down. KeSPA did not -- or rather they couldn't have because they... actually don't have money because they don't operate on a profit. Proleague, for example, is operated literally on Government Subsidy and a "fee" from all the teams, plus the broadcast fees they charge the stations. Blizzard did force KeSPA to cooperate with GOM though regarding SC2 rights (not Brood War), but that's a whole different story. Again, the issue was literally because Blizzard trying to get money from the scene that doesn't have any because of how they operate and how bad Korean fans are. This big mistake is pretty much one if the bigger reasons why the scene is struggling in Korea. That entire IP rights debacle did more damage to Korean E-Sports than anything that has happened in Korea =( Both sides gave up ground in the negotiations, who 'backed down' is quite irrelevant and highly subjective. It all depends on initial positions and outcome in relation what your goal was. That is a futile debate. My point was that two years ago KeSPA could do whatever they wanted and pretty much did. Now after the conflict they're forced to cooperate both with Blizzard and GOM(for a while at least). That is a new position for them. Of course KESPA were also douchebags about it cause they (supposedly/rumoredly) had the attitude "It's not like they can run SC2 without us" and probably did some underhanded shit. Blizzard gets mad due to KeSPA's BS attitude and this escalates down into a war where Blizzard eventually backs down because SC2 is tanking in korea despite all the money Blizzard had poured into it and they also realize KeSPA has no money.It's not completely blizzard's fault cause KeSPA is really bad at making money and the korean fans are also kind of douchey and refuse to pay for anything related to esports. So yeah Blizzard being greedy, KeSPA being incompetent/unprofessional. There you go. I remember those discussions something like 2 years ago now where people were posting about Blizzard's ridiculously strong position and how every Korean was going to play SC2 immediately no matter what so Kespa might as well give in. It's kind of sad though that something that had so much potential in the Korean market became what it is today. Sure it's doing okay, but nowhere close to as big as anyone expected. Of course, a lot of this is due to Blizzard's shitty marketing with the PC bangs dealings and all that jazz, which while they're definitely within their rights to do; it was absolutely shitty. EDIT: On a side note, Milkis, you got a seriously bright future ahead of you. B/c damn you're smart. o-O It's more than just that though. The market has changed drastically as well. It's been said many times over. BW was all about the right timing. A total fluke. Lightning didn't strike twice. Thank you for saying this,.its a point worth re-iterating. BW as a phenomenon will never ever ever ever happen again. I n terms of raw numbers, LoL is looking to be the heir to BW more than SC2 is, depending on how KeSPA and OGN play it.
Only reason why people play LOL is because it's free. Lol had a decent year in esports with RIOT paying most of the tourney prize money. Once DOTA2 is retail, I doubt any smart pro would continue to play that imba piece of crap with ridiculous heroes anymore.
And of course the Starcraft players association. AKA "Pipe dream" Only reason why it worked with BW is because it was basically only one country that needed to do it. I doubt very much that if in Korea they made a SC2PA (which they tried and failed) teams in America like eg or teams like Fnatic in europe would be willing to join just simply because they don't need to. Nor is it really viable. GOMtv/MLG/IPL etc etc are a FOR PROFIT business. If they weren't making money they wouldn't be around. Simple as that, now if the SC2PA said every code a player deserves a minimum. Where is that money suppose to come from?
|
Every time I read these threads, I just think about what it'll be like when Flash plays SC2. XD
|
On January 24 2012 10:39 Arkless wrote:I keep on seeing in recent posts something along the lines of "Lower tier players need to make more(or a minimum to live/what have you) Here is the thing with that, If you cant make a good enough living off of starcraft then pick another career. It's no different for any other sport honestly. Most Muay Thai fighters actually have to pay to compete when at lower levels. And even boxers fighting on ESPN get paid 200-300 for a fight that they trained for 6-8 weeks. I think this entitlement that lower tier players seem to have as far as getting paid more is rediculous. Especially when the money isn't in ESPORTS to pay everyone a minimum. Also , these are tournaments, not show matches. There is a difference. Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 10:25 Klonere wrote:On January 24 2012 10:17 StarStruck wrote:On January 24 2012 09:03 wklbishop wrote:On January 24 2012 07:38 Milkis wrote:On January 24 2012 06:08 Longshank wrote:On January 24 2012 05:25 Milkis wrote:On January 24 2012 04:49 Longshank wrote:On January 24 2012 03:15 Milkis wrote:On January 24 2012 02:22 jayhorn wrote:
IIRC GOM has exclusive rights to SC2 TV in Korea until 2013, because KeSPA didn't want to negotiate with Blizzard and there are not very good relations between the two. GOM were happy to work with Blizzard so I don't see why a new contract can't be negotiated for 2013 and beyond. If I am totally wrong on this some1 please correct me.
Personally I think KeSPA should GTFO and SC2 should have it's own governing body, to protect teams and players from the BW teams with mo' money and all that jazz.
It's a long story and tldr, it's Blizzard's greedy fault. Thanks to this everything is in quite an awkward position cause blizzard wants kespa to go into sc2 but they can't cause of Gom and now Gom and KeSPA have to work things out which is going to be quite difficult. Quite amusingly it was blizzard who stepped in when Gom and KeSPA were pretty close to negotiating regarding BW to sue, and now it's on an even more awkward status lol Blizzard forced KeSPA to cooperate. I can see though how that is awkward for them, most things are when doing something you're not used to. I'm pretty sure it was Blizzard who backed down. KeSPA did not -- or rather they couldn't have because they... actually don't have money because they don't operate on a profit. Proleague, for example, is operated literally on Government Subsidy and a "fee" from all the teams, plus the broadcast fees they charge the stations. Blizzard did force KeSPA to cooperate with GOM though regarding SC2 rights (not Brood War), but that's a whole different story. Again, the issue was literally because Blizzard trying to get money from the scene that doesn't have any because of how they operate and how bad Korean fans are. This big mistake is pretty much one if the bigger reasons why the scene is struggling in Korea. That entire IP rights debacle did more damage to Korean E-Sports than anything that has happened in Korea =( Both sides gave up ground in the negotiations, who 'backed down' is quite irrelevant and highly subjective. It all depends on initial positions and outcome in relation what your goal was. That is a futile debate. My point was that two years ago KeSPA could do whatever they wanted and pretty much did. Now after the conflict they're forced to cooperate both with Blizzard and GOM(for a while at least). That is a new position for them. Of course KESPA were also douchebags about it cause they (supposedly/rumoredly) had the attitude "It's not like they can run SC2 without us" and probably did some underhanded shit. Blizzard gets mad due to KeSPA's BS attitude and this escalates down into a war where Blizzard eventually backs down because SC2 is tanking in korea despite all the money Blizzard had poured into it and they also realize KeSPA has no money.It's not completely blizzard's fault cause KeSPA is really bad at making money and the korean fans are also kind of douchey and refuse to pay for anything related to esports. So yeah Blizzard being greedy, KeSPA being incompetent/unprofessional. There you go. I remember those discussions something like 2 years ago now where people were posting about Blizzard's ridiculously strong position and how every Korean was going to play SC2 immediately no matter what so Kespa might as well give in. It's kind of sad though that something that had so much potential in the Korean market became what it is today. Sure it's doing okay, but nowhere close to as big as anyone expected. Of course, a lot of this is due to Blizzard's shitty marketing with the PC bangs dealings and all that jazz, which while they're definitely within their rights to do; it was absolutely shitty. EDIT: On a side note, Milkis, you got a seriously bright future ahead of you. B/c damn you're smart. o-O It's more than just that though. The market has changed drastically as well. It's been said many times over. BW was all about the right timing. A total fluke. Lightning didn't strike twice. Thank you for saying this,.its a point worth re-iterating. BW as a phenomenon will never ever ever ever happen again. I n terms of raw numbers, LoL is looking to be the heir to BW more than SC2 is, depending on how KeSPA and OGN play it. Only reason why people play LOL is because it's free. Lol had a decent year in esports with RIOT paying most of the tourney prize money. Once DOTA2 is retail, I doubt any smart pro would continue to play that imba piece of crap with ridiculous heroes anymore. And of course the Starcraft players association. AKA "Pipe dream" Only reason why it worked with BW is because it was basically only one country that needed to do it. I doubt very much that if in Korea they made a SC2PA (which they tried and failed) teams in America like eg or teams like Fnatic in europe wouldn't be willing to join just simply because they don't need to. Nor is it really viable. GOMtv/MLG/IPL etc etc are a FOR PROFIT business. If they weren't making money they wouldn't be around. Simple as that, now if the SC2PA said every code a player deserves a minimum. Where is that money suppose to come from?
Lol has had a signifigant headstart to build a massive fanbase and there ability to market there own game as an e-sport is something blizzard could take notes on which is odd considering how close some of the people at Riot and Blizzard are.
|
Vatican City State582 Posts
thanks for the translations, very interesting read, and I hope BW pros do switch over to SC2 soon.
|
Wow, this really makes me feel apprehensive about the future of sc2, I mean sure in the end, we want to see the best players, and if the BW players are able to exceed current sc2 players then props to them, they deserve it, however, if the current pros are sidelined, or atleast feel like they will be sidelined, then it removes a lot of incentive for them to play the game. 
|
Hmm... EG should make an offer to Happy
|
On January 24 2012 10:55 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 10:39 Arkless wrote:I keep on seeing in recent posts something along the lines of "Lower tier players need to make more(or a minimum to live/what have you) Here is the thing with that, If you cant make a good enough living off of starcraft then pick another career. It's no different for any other sport honestly. Most Muay Thai fighters actually have to pay to compete when at lower levels. And even boxers fighting on ESPN get paid 200-300 for a fight that they trained for 6-8 weeks. I think this entitlement that lower tier players seem to have as far as getting paid more is rediculous. Especially when the money isn't in ESPORTS to pay everyone a minimum. Also , these are tournaments, not show matches. There is a difference. On January 24 2012 10:25 Klonere wrote:On January 24 2012 10:17 StarStruck wrote:On January 24 2012 09:03 wklbishop wrote:On January 24 2012 07:38 Milkis wrote:On January 24 2012 06:08 Longshank wrote:On January 24 2012 05:25 Milkis wrote:On January 24 2012 04:49 Longshank wrote:On January 24 2012 03:15 Milkis wrote:
[quote]
It's a long story and tldr, it's Blizzard's greedy fault. Thanks to this everything is in quite an awkward position cause blizzard wants kespa to go into sc2 but they can't cause of Gom and now Gom and KeSPA have to work things out which is going to be quite difficult.
Quite amusingly it was blizzard who stepped in when Gom and KeSPA were pretty close to negotiating regarding BW to sue, and now it's on an even more awkward status lol Blizzard forced KeSPA to cooperate. I can see though how that is awkward for them, most things are when doing something you're not used to. I'm pretty sure it was Blizzard who backed down. KeSPA did not -- or rather they couldn't have because they... actually don't have money because they don't operate on a profit. Proleague, for example, is operated literally on Government Subsidy and a "fee" from all the teams, plus the broadcast fees they charge the stations. Blizzard did force KeSPA to cooperate with GOM though regarding SC2 rights (not Brood War), but that's a whole different story. Again, the issue was literally because Blizzard trying to get money from the scene that doesn't have any because of how they operate and how bad Korean fans are. This big mistake is pretty much one if the bigger reasons why the scene is struggling in Korea. That entire IP rights debacle did more damage to Korean E-Sports than anything that has happened in Korea =( Both sides gave up ground in the negotiations, who 'backed down' is quite irrelevant and highly subjective. It all depends on initial positions and outcome in relation what your goal was. That is a futile debate. My point was that two years ago KeSPA could do whatever they wanted and pretty much did. Now after the conflict they're forced to cooperate both with Blizzard and GOM(for a while at least). That is a new position for them. Of course KESPA were also douchebags about it cause they (supposedly/rumoredly) had the attitude "It's not like they can run SC2 without us" and probably did some underhanded shit. Blizzard gets mad due to KeSPA's BS attitude and this escalates down into a war where Blizzard eventually backs down because SC2 is tanking in korea despite all the money Blizzard had poured into it and they also realize KeSPA has no money.It's not completely blizzard's fault cause KeSPA is really bad at making money and the korean fans are also kind of douchey and refuse to pay for anything related to esports. So yeah Blizzard being greedy, KeSPA being incompetent/unprofessional. There you go. I remember those discussions something like 2 years ago now where people were posting about Blizzard's ridiculously strong position and how every Korean was going to play SC2 immediately no matter what so Kespa might as well give in. It's kind of sad though that something that had so much potential in the Korean market became what it is today. Sure it's doing okay, but nowhere close to as big as anyone expected. Of course, a lot of this is due to Blizzard's shitty marketing with the PC bangs dealings and all that jazz, which while they're definitely within their rights to do; it was absolutely shitty. EDIT: On a side note, Milkis, you got a seriously bright future ahead of you. B/c damn you're smart. o-O It's more than just that though. The market has changed drastically as well. It's been said many times over. BW was all about the right timing. A total fluke. Lightning didn't strike twice. Thank you for saying this,.its a point worth re-iterating. BW as a phenomenon will never ever ever ever happen again. I n terms of raw numbers, LoL is looking to be the heir to BW more than SC2 is, depending on how KeSPA and OGN play it. Only reason why people play LOL is because it's free. Lol had a decent year in esports with RIOT paying most of the tourney prize money. Once DOTA2 is retail, I doubt any smart pro would continue to play that imba piece of crap with ridiculous heroes anymore. And of course the Starcraft players association. AKA "Pipe dream" Only reason why it worked with BW is because it was basically only one country that needed to do it. I doubt very much that if in Korea they made a SC2PA (which they tried and failed) teams in America like eg or teams like Fnatic in europe wouldn't be willing to join just simply because they don't need to. Nor is it really viable. GOMtv/MLG/IPL etc etc are a FOR PROFIT business. If they weren't making money they wouldn't be around. Simple as that, now if the SC2PA said every code a player deserves a minimum. Where is that money suppose to come from? Lol has had a signifigant headstart to build a massive fanbase and there ability to market there own game as an e-sport is something blizzard could take notes on which is odd considering how close some of the people at Riot and Blizzard are.
I thought DoTA2 is the moba to bet on. Also, Korea is familiar with SC as brand, if the BW organizations and SC2 organizations work together instead of splitting the market, it could bold quite well. Also SC was one of the original game to help to define esports. People who don't play it even respect its competitiveness.
|
On January 24 2012 08:47 jidolboy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 08:43 Primadog wrote:On January 24 2012 08:41 jidolboy wrote:On January 24 2012 08:34 DigitalD[562] wrote:
I have a hopeful outlook on the eventual switch of the BW teams. KeSPA (and it's teams) can NOT make sustainable money solely in Korea. The need for foreign fans, and the sponsorships that come with that hopefully force KeSPA to adopt a more inclusive attitude. ??? I hope this is a troll post. BW sponsers will gain nothing if they open more toward foreign scene (except for Samsung.) Is that why they tried to host an OSL finals in China? .... Maybe because korean air is international? Herp derp
So in other words since the sponsor Korean Air is international they would gain something by opening up beyond Korea.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
