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Discussing the controversy and stating your opinions in a constructive way is fine, but there will be bans for any player/organization bashing without anything to substantiate it. |
On January 19 2012 03:20 emythrel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 02:48 D_K_night wrote:On January 19 2012 02:43 aderum wrote:On January 19 2012 02:22 Kazeyonoma wrote:On January 19 2012 02:19 moonmeh wrote:On January 19 2012 02:17 Kazeyonoma wrote:On January 19 2012 02:12 moonmeh wrote:
Honestly the only fucked up thing Coach Lee did was search Alive's computer without consent and print out the skype conversation. That just seems wrong to me. where in any official releases was this mentioned. he has evidence of the chat logs. that's all we have. how he got it, is never released. another player could've found it. how do we know alive has his own 'personal' computer when players rotate on machines in team houses. another player could've overheard alive's skype convo and brought it to lee's attention. how are we so quickly to jump on Coach Lee, when we know so little of the situation? Because on the TIG interview I translated Alive specifically mentioned that the conversation was on his computer and he wonders how Coach Lee got his hands on it Link for source bro 'his computer' is kind of vague. Does he own his own PC in the team house? Or is it as someone above mentioned, that the entire team house is likely funded by Coach Lee, and he therefore owns the equipment, giving him the right to look at whatever he wants. Guess what, maybe in europe it's illegal to search an employee's computer, but in the US, if there is reason for suspicion, an employer can search, and even dig through logs of your activity to see if there is reason for termination for breach of contract or employment obligations. That means if you're looking at kiddy porn on your PC, and an employer hears you might be doing that on work computers... they can search your PC, and if they find it, it IS evidence to be used to terminate you. So if your employer suspect you might be talking to another company he has the right to look through your personal Skype-conversations? Thats pretty messed up. well that's nothing new. If you are using equipment provided to you by your employer, they have every right to that equipment. period. it is not yours. it belongs to the company, not you. you were merely the user. However they don't have the right to break in to personal e-mail etc. Skype falls under that catagory, so I'm gonna assume that Coach Lee didn't guess aLive's password but that he was still logged in. If Coach Lee put in the password or obtained it without permission... then that is breach of privacy, at least where I live ;p
In Canada and the US, anything you do on a work computer can be logged. Personal email, personal skype converstations, whatever. When you're doing it on a work computer, you do not have any privacy, regardless of what personal or non-personal accounts you are using. Whether it's ethical or not is a whole different matter, but all of these TL lawyers who seem to think it's illegal are quite mistaken, at least in NA. I don't know what the law is in Korea, but I would imagine it would be the same or similar, as it's a fairly basic provision to protect businesses.
Now, if the conversation wasn't on a computer that the team owned it would be a whole different story. If alive did it at home, then it would be totally illegal and inadmissable in any legal proceedings. But that's not the impression that anyone seems to have, so I doubt that's the case or someone would have brought it up already.
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United States824 Posts
On January 18 2012 14:47 rauk wrote:
how on earth can TSL be this badly mismanaged that they keep losing players like this so consistently
This is the key.
Organizations like the Lakers, sure they have contracts. But they first build a team concept and tradition so compelling players would stay without one.
TSL is approaching this the wrong way. Instead of pointing fingers at competitors for offering more attractive opportunities, they need to investigate and change what's wrong with their atmosphere/environment.
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TSL seems to be the training camp for players to be traded off to other team. They need to develop a tradition of overcharging for teamchanges/penalty fee, and that's gunna be their niche thing in sc2. lol.
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On January 19 2012 03:29 MercilessMonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 03:20 emythrel wrote:On January 19 2012 02:48 D_K_night wrote:On January 19 2012 02:43 aderum wrote:On January 19 2012 02:22 Kazeyonoma wrote:On January 19 2012 02:19 moonmeh wrote:On January 19 2012 02:17 Kazeyonoma wrote:On January 19 2012 02:12 moonmeh wrote:
Honestly the only fucked up thing Coach Lee did was search Alive's computer without consent and print out the skype conversation. That just seems wrong to me. where in any official releases was this mentioned. he has evidence of the chat logs. that's all we have. how he got it, is never released. another player could've found it. how do we know alive has his own 'personal' computer when players rotate on machines in team houses. another player could've overheard alive's skype convo and brought it to lee's attention. how are we so quickly to jump on Coach Lee, when we know so little of the situation? Because on the TIG interview I translated Alive specifically mentioned that the conversation was on his computer and he wonders how Coach Lee got his hands on it Link for source bro 'his computer' is kind of vague. Does he own his own PC in the team house? Or is it as someone above mentioned, that the entire team house is likely funded by Coach Lee, and he therefore owns the equipment, giving him the right to look at whatever he wants. Guess what, maybe in europe it's illegal to search an employee's computer, but in the US, if there is reason for suspicion, an employer can search, and even dig through logs of your activity to see if there is reason for termination for breach of contract or employment obligations. That means if you're looking at kiddy porn on your PC, and an employer hears you might be doing that on work computers... they can search your PC, and if they find it, it IS evidence to be used to terminate you. So if your employer suspect you might be talking to another company he has the right to look through your personal Skype-conversations? Thats pretty messed up. well that's nothing new. If you are using equipment provided to you by your employer, they have every right to that equipment. period. it is not yours. it belongs to the company, not you. you were merely the user. However they don't have the right to break in to personal e-mail etc. Skype falls under that catagory, so I'm gonna assume that Coach Lee didn't guess aLive's password but that he was still logged in. If Coach Lee put in the password or obtained it without permission... then that is breach of privacy, at least where I live ;p In Canada and the US, anything you do on a work computer can be logged. Personal email, personal skype converstations, whatever. When you're doing it on a work computer, you do not have any privacy, regardless of what personal or non-personal accounts you are using. Whether it's ethical or not is a whole different matter, but all of these TL lawyers who seem to think it's illegal are quite mistaken, at least in NA. I don't know what the law is in Korea, but I would imagine it would be the same or similar, as it's a fairly basic provision to protect businesses. Now, if the conversation wasn't on a computer that the team owned it would be a whole different story. If alive did it at home, then it would be totally illegal and inadmissable in any legal proceedings. But that's not the impression that anyone seems to have, so I doubt that's the case or someone would have brought it up already.
After reading up quite a bit, whilst there's no specific laws regarding it it seems it could possibly break a few laws:
http://www.mcafee.com/us/regulations/apac/republic-of-korea.aspx
Unless notice and express consent are obtained from the employees, monitoring of employee emails is likely to be viewed as a violation of Article 48 of APICNU. Even if the computers are owned by the employer, without notice and consent the employer is likely to be deemed to have gone beyond the permitted access right and to be in violation of Article 48.
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On January 19 2012 03:29 MercilessMonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 03:20 emythrel wrote:On January 19 2012 02:48 D_K_night wrote:On January 19 2012 02:43 aderum wrote:On January 19 2012 02:22 Kazeyonoma wrote:On January 19 2012 02:19 moonmeh wrote:On January 19 2012 02:17 Kazeyonoma wrote:On January 19 2012 02:12 moonmeh wrote:
Honestly the only fucked up thing Coach Lee did was search Alive's computer without consent and print out the skype conversation. That just seems wrong to me. where in any official releases was this mentioned. he has evidence of the chat logs. that's all we have. how he got it, is never released. another player could've found it. how do we know alive has his own 'personal' computer when players rotate on machines in team houses. another player could've overheard alive's skype convo and brought it to lee's attention. how are we so quickly to jump on Coach Lee, when we know so little of the situation? Because on the TIG interview I translated Alive specifically mentioned that the conversation was on his computer and he wonders how Coach Lee got his hands on it Link for source bro 'his computer' is kind of vague. Does he own his own PC in the team house? Or is it as someone above mentioned, that the entire team house is likely funded by Coach Lee, and he therefore owns the equipment, giving him the right to look at whatever he wants. Guess what, maybe in europe it's illegal to search an employee's computer, but in the US, if there is reason for suspicion, an employer can search, and even dig through logs of your activity to see if there is reason for termination for breach of contract or employment obligations. That means if you're looking at kiddy porn on your PC, and an employer hears you might be doing that on work computers... they can search your PC, and if they find it, it IS evidence to be used to terminate you. So if your employer suspect you might be talking to another company he has the right to look through your personal Skype-conversations? Thats pretty messed up. well that's nothing new. If you are using equipment provided to you by your employer, they have every right to that equipment. period. it is not yours. it belongs to the company, not you. you were merely the user. However they don't have the right to break in to personal e-mail etc. Skype falls under that catagory, so I'm gonna assume that Coach Lee didn't guess aLive's password but that he was still logged in. If Coach Lee put in the password or obtained it without permission... then that is breach of privacy, at least where I live ;p In Canada and the US, anything you do on a work computer can be logged. Personal email, personal skype converstations, whatever. When you're doing it on a work computer, you do not have any privacy, regardless of what personal or non-personal accounts you are using. Whether it's ethical or not is a whole different matter, but all of these TL lawyers who seem to think it's illegal are quite mistaken, at least in NA. I don't know what the law is in Korea, but I would imagine it would be the same or similar, as it's a fairly basic provision to protect businesses. Now, if the conversation wasn't on a computer that the team owned it would be a whole different story. If alive did it at home, then it would be totally illegal and inadmissable in any legal proceedings. But that's not the impression that anyone seems to have, so I doubt that's the case or someone would have brought it up already.
I understand you're responding to all the e-Lawyers in this thread, but it's really not a question of legality. Whether Coach Lee was legally allowed to access aLive's computer and download private conversations, no player wants to be part of a team where you feel like your Coach/Manager is always prying into your business and looking over your shoulder trying to catch you doing something you're not supposed to be doing. It's just not a good atmosphere.
While Coach Lee certainly can do what he did, he shouldn't feel like he has to.
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On January 19 2012 03:53 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 03:29 MercilessMonkey wrote:On January 19 2012 03:20 emythrel wrote:On January 19 2012 02:48 D_K_night wrote:On January 19 2012 02:43 aderum wrote:On January 19 2012 02:22 Kazeyonoma wrote:On January 19 2012 02:19 moonmeh wrote:On January 19 2012 02:17 Kazeyonoma wrote:On January 19 2012 02:12 moonmeh wrote:
Honestly the only fucked up thing Coach Lee did was search Alive's computer without consent and print out the skype conversation. That just seems wrong to me. where in any official releases was this mentioned. he has evidence of the chat logs. that's all we have. how he got it, is never released. another player could've found it. how do we know alive has his own 'personal' computer when players rotate on machines in team houses. another player could've overheard alive's skype convo and brought it to lee's attention. how are we so quickly to jump on Coach Lee, when we know so little of the situation? Because on the TIG interview I translated Alive specifically mentioned that the conversation was on his computer and he wonders how Coach Lee got his hands on it Link for source bro 'his computer' is kind of vague. Does he own his own PC in the team house? Or is it as someone above mentioned, that the entire team house is likely funded by Coach Lee, and he therefore owns the equipment, giving him the right to look at whatever he wants. Guess what, maybe in europe it's illegal to search an employee's computer, but in the US, if there is reason for suspicion, an employer can search, and even dig through logs of your activity to see if there is reason for termination for breach of contract or employment obligations. That means if you're looking at kiddy porn on your PC, and an employer hears you might be doing that on work computers... they can search your PC, and if they find it, it IS evidence to be used to terminate you. So if your employer suspect you might be talking to another company he has the right to look through your personal Skype-conversations? Thats pretty messed up. well that's nothing new. If you are using equipment provided to you by your employer, they have every right to that equipment. period. it is not yours. it belongs to the company, not you. you were merely the user. However they don't have the right to break in to personal e-mail etc. Skype falls under that catagory, so I'm gonna assume that Coach Lee didn't guess aLive's password but that he was still logged in. If Coach Lee put in the password or obtained it without permission... then that is breach of privacy, at least where I live ;p In Canada and the US, anything you do on a work computer can be logged. Personal email, personal skype converstations, whatever. When you're doing it on a work computer, you do not have any privacy, regardless of what personal or non-personal accounts you are using. Whether it's ethical or not is a whole different matter, but all of these TL lawyers who seem to think it's illegal are quite mistaken, at least in NA. I don't know what the law is in Korea, but I would imagine it would be the same or similar, as it's a fairly basic provision to protect businesses. Now, if the conversation wasn't on a computer that the team owned it would be a whole different story. If alive did it at home, then it would be totally illegal and inadmissable in any legal proceedings. But that's not the impression that anyone seems to have, so I doubt that's the case or someone would have brought it up already. I understand you're responding to all the e-Lawyers in this thread, but it's really not a question of legality. Whether Coach Lee was legally allowed to access aLive's computer and download private conversations, no player wants to be part of a team where you feel like your Coach/Manager is always prying into your business and looking over your shoulder trying to catch you doing something you're not supposed to be doing. It's just not a good atmosphere. While Coach Lee certainly can do what he did, he shouldn't feel like he has to.
i have a feeling coach lee didn't "spy" on his players. First, he's extremely busy handling his own internet cafe. Secondly, even without his internet cafe, spying on his player is an extremely time consuming and pointless thing to do most of the time. I think he just found out because aLive left his Skype logged on and some of the player saw it and report back to him
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I feel like my opinions from earlier in the thread are much more validated now, but it seems like a lot of people here are still shitting on Coach Lee for no reason.
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never with a formal offer it was a casual conversation between two friends.
Are you kidding me Fnatic? I really hope this "casual conversation" didn't have anything to do with joining alive joining fnatic" because jokes or not, if I were talking to anyone evenly remotely related to TSL, I would know that TSL has been deeply hurt by this kind of thing in the past and that you simply can't cross this boundary. This is pretty much the equivalent of saying "bomb" on an airplane-people are going to overreact no matter how casual or joking because it's a supersensitive issue.
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On January 19 2012 04:12 xxgeffxx wrote:Are you kidding me Fnatic? I really hope this "casual conversation" didn't have anything to do with joining alive joining fnatic" because jokes or not, if I were talking to anyone evenly remotely related to TSL, I would know that TSL has been deeply hurt by this kind of thing in the past and that you simply can't cross this boundary. This is pretty much the equivalent of saying "bomb" on an airplane-people are going to overreact no matter how casual or joking because it's a supersensitive issue.
Comparing a casual talk about a possible, potential contract with someone shouting "bomb" on an airplane is an overexaggeration, and you know it.
On January 19 2012 02:17 Smix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 02:10 Arceus wrote:On January 19 2012 01:42 Fionn wrote:
I know Alive is young and all, but I don't think it's that hard to understand a contract. If Alive wanted to leave, he should have went to Lee directly and left like JYP, Killer and Clide who all got permission to leave without any fuss. JYP and Clide both joined new teams with no problem and are happy where they are. Alive and the translator, who seemed to have started talks of signing a deal before even the Fnatic team knew about it, from my view point, are the ones to blame most harshly in this matter. It makes Fnatic look bad. It makes TSL look bad. Shit, it makes e-sports in general look bad. How is anyone supposed to take this seriously when we have players breaching contracts left and right? agree. but who fuckin believes that translator was doing things on his own accord ? Fnatic must have given him some kind of order to convince and guide aLive out of the house. Then when shit came to light fnatic is like lol we couldnt care less 'bout our translation having some "casual conversation". Thats not any illegal but shady as hell I was there that night, we were all just out talking casually and I witnessed this conversation. It was definitely not some shady offering, it really was as fnatic says a casual conversation that was in no way or shape or form an 'official offer', just casual talking between the translator and aLive, so please don't say things like this as it's definitely not true. I'm looking forward to aLive's personal statement as I'm sure it will shed even more light on this situation, because the interviewer was definitely biased;;
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On January 19 2012 04:23 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 04:12 xxgeffxx wrote:never with a formal offer it was a casual conversation between two friends. Are you kidding me Fnatic? I really hope this "casual conversation" didn't have anything to do with joining alive joining fnatic" because jokes or not, if I were talking to anyone evenly remotely related to TSL, I would know that TSL has been deeply hurt by this kind of thing in the past and that you simply can't cross this boundary. This is pretty much the equivalent of saying "bomb" on an airplane-people are going to overreact no matter how casual or joking because it's a supersensitive issue. Comparing a casual talk about a possible, potential contract with someone shouting "bomb" on an airplane is an overexaggeration, and you know it. Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 02:17 Smix wrote:On January 19 2012 02:10 Arceus wrote:On January 19 2012 01:42 Fionn wrote:
I know Alive is young and all, but I don't think it's that hard to understand a contract. If Alive wanted to leave, he should have went to Lee directly and left like JYP, Killer and Clide who all got permission to leave without any fuss. JYP and Clide both joined new teams with no problem and are happy where they are. Alive and the translator, who seemed to have started talks of signing a deal before even the Fnatic team knew about it, from my view point, are the ones to blame most harshly in this matter. It makes Fnatic look bad. It makes TSL look bad. Shit, it makes e-sports in general look bad. How is anyone supposed to take this seriously when we have players breaching contracts left and right? agree. but who fuckin believes that translator was doing things on his own accord ? Fnatic must have given him some kind of order to convince and guide aLive out of the house. Then when shit came to light fnatic is like lol we couldnt care less 'bout our translation having some "casual conversation". Thats not any illegal but shady as hell I was there that night, we were all just out talking casually and I witnessed this conversation. It was definitely not some shady offering, it really was as fnatic says a casual conversation that was in no way or shape or form an 'official offer', just casual talking between the translator and aLive, so please don't say things like this as it's definitely not true. I'm looking forward to aLive's personal statement as I'm sure it will shed even more light on this situation, because the interviewer was definitely biased;;
You should also see the part where aLive said that he wouldn't leave TSL if he wasn't almost sure that Fnatic will sign him .
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This is terrible. I really liked TSL, but with aLive and Heart both leaving, I just don't know TT
All I know is that if aLive really is just stepping out on Coach Lee like that then I won't be able to root for him any more. He's a beastly player, but from what it sounds like Coach Lee tried to take care of him.
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On January 19 2012 04:45 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 04:23 babylon wrote:On January 19 2012 04:12 xxgeffxx wrote:never with a formal offer it was a casual conversation between two friends. Are you kidding me Fnatic? I really hope this "casual conversation" didn't have anything to do with joining alive joining fnatic" because jokes or not, if I were talking to anyone evenly remotely related to TSL, I would know that TSL has been deeply hurt by this kind of thing in the past and that you simply can't cross this boundary. This is pretty much the equivalent of saying "bomb" on an airplane-people are going to overreact no matter how casual or joking because it's a supersensitive issue. Comparing a casual talk about a possible, potential contract with someone shouting "bomb" on an airplane is an overexaggeration, and you know it. On January 19 2012 02:17 Smix wrote:On January 19 2012 02:10 Arceus wrote:On January 19 2012 01:42 Fionn wrote:
I know Alive is young and all, but I don't think it's that hard to understand a contract. If Alive wanted to leave, he should have went to Lee directly and left like JYP, Killer and Clide who all got permission to leave without any fuss. JYP and Clide both joined new teams with no problem and are happy where they are. Alive and the translator, who seemed to have started talks of signing a deal before even the Fnatic team knew about it, from my view point, are the ones to blame most harshly in this matter. It makes Fnatic look bad. It makes TSL look bad. Shit, it makes e-sports in general look bad. How is anyone supposed to take this seriously when we have players breaching contracts left and right? agree. but who fuckin believes that translator was doing things on his own accord ? Fnatic must have given him some kind of order to convince and guide aLive out of the house. Then when shit came to light fnatic is like lol we couldnt care less 'bout our translation having some "casual conversation". Thats not any illegal but shady as hell I was there that night, we were all just out talking casually and I witnessed this conversation. It was definitely not some shady offering, it really was as fnatic says a casual conversation that was in no way or shape or form an 'official offer', just casual talking between the translator and aLive, so please don't say things like this as it's definitely not true. I'm looking forward to aLive's personal statement as I'm sure it will shed even more light on this situation, because the interviewer was definitely biased;; You should also see the part where aLive said that he wouldn't leave TSL if he wasn't almost sure that Fnatic will sign him .
Uuuuh No. He planned on leaving before but because of personal reason couldn't. Then later one he said it just wasn't working and wanted to leave the team.
"When Clide and others left Coach said if there was any problems you could leave as well. I wanted to leave then but due to personal reasons I said I'll stay a bit longer but did not want to be a team mate."
Source
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esports is killing esports
User was warned for this post
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Lee is killing esports.
User was warned for this post
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On January 19 2012 04:58 moonmeh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 04:45 raga4ka wrote:On January 19 2012 04:23 babylon wrote:On January 19 2012 04:12 xxgeffxx wrote:never with a formal offer it was a casual conversation between two friends. Are you kidding me Fnatic? I really hope this "casual conversation" didn't have anything to do with joining alive joining fnatic" because jokes or not, if I were talking to anyone evenly remotely related to TSL, I would know that TSL has been deeply hurt by this kind of thing in the past and that you simply can't cross this boundary. This is pretty much the equivalent of saying "bomb" on an airplane-people are going to overreact no matter how casual or joking because it's a supersensitive issue. Comparing a casual talk about a possible, potential contract with someone shouting "bomb" on an airplane is an overexaggeration, and you know it. On January 19 2012 02:17 Smix wrote:On January 19 2012 02:10 Arceus wrote:On January 19 2012 01:42 Fionn wrote:
I know Alive is young and all, but I don't think it's that hard to understand a contract. If Alive wanted to leave, he should have went to Lee directly and left like JYP, Killer and Clide who all got permission to leave without any fuss. JYP and Clide both joined new teams with no problem and are happy where they are. Alive and the translator, who seemed to have started talks of signing a deal before even the Fnatic team knew about it, from my view point, are the ones to blame most harshly in this matter. It makes Fnatic look bad. It makes TSL look bad. Shit, it makes e-sports in general look bad. How is anyone supposed to take this seriously when we have players breaching contracts left and right? agree. but who fuckin believes that translator was doing things on his own accord ? Fnatic must have given him some kind of order to convince and guide aLive out of the house. Then when shit came to light fnatic is like lol we couldnt care less 'bout our translation having some "casual conversation". Thats not any illegal but shady as hell I was there that night, we were all just out talking casually and I witnessed this conversation. It was definitely not some shady offering, it really was as fnatic says a casual conversation that was in no way or shape or form an 'official offer', just casual talking between the translator and aLive, so please don't say things like this as it's definitely not true. I'm looking forward to aLive's personal statement as I'm sure it will shed even more light on this situation, because the interviewer was definitely biased;; You should also see the part where aLive said that he wouldn't leave TSL if he wasn't almost sure that Fnatic will sign him . Uuuuh No. He planned on leaving before but because of personal reason couldn't. Then later one he said it just wasn't working and wanted to leave the team. "When Clide and others left Coach said if there was any problems you could leave as well. I wanted to leave then but due to personal reasons I said I'll stay a bit longer but did not want to be a team mate." Source
Reading's overrated these days.
I'm still waiting on ToD's blog post on this subject. That should be fairly interesting. 
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Mama bear, please stop hurting esports.....
I dint see any fault on fnatics part for this.
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imo above all lack of professionalism is killing sc2 esports judging by all these debacles =\
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Professional players really need to take legal contracts seriously... it's tiring to see these young adults time after time thinking they can bypass the law just because they have the support of another team.
I feel bad for Coach Lee because I can understand his feeling of betrayal after hearing his side and also for aLive because I can understand people around his young age tend to want to bend the law. I'm most disappointed in Fnatic, fully understanding aLive was in contract with TSL and still went out of their way to hand him an offer then later deny the truth.
It's clear Coach lee didn't want to use the evidence he had in this dispute, he just wanted Fnatic and aLive to admit to the truth. He did spend so much money on aLive in foreign tournaments and understandably he would be angry.
People raging on him, understand that Artosis has and will back up Coach Lee because he knows him personally from BW. Personally, I would trust Artosis statements on the matter more than Fnatic's PR right now. Truly disappointing case coming from Fnatic, especially since they recently picked up my favorite WC3 player, Moon.
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United States33502 Posts
Aight, player/personality bashing rules are in place, stop spamming up the thread with straight up insults.
Discussing the controversy and stating your opinions in a constructive way is fine, but there will be bans for any player/organization bashing without anything to substantiate it.
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Coach Lee offered both conciliatory and threatening comments towards Fnatic: "The player is most at fault, so I don't want relations with Fnatic to grow any worse... ...I haven't heard a single word of apology from Fnatic regarding the canceled partnership or this row with Alive. Also, they made an announcement that was completely untrue. If they continue to deny the truth and refuse to apologize, I am willing to come forth with evidence."
So u want Fnatic to appologize for what? That u asked for a rediculous amount of money or because players want to desperatly leave your team...even willing to pay out of their own money, the contract/break...k....bro
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EPT
