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Discussing the controversy and stating your opinions in a constructive way is fine, but there will be bans for any player/organization bashing without anything to substantiate it. |
On January 19 2012 05:17 Waxangel wrote:
Aight, player/personality bashing rules are in place, stop spamming up the thread with straight up insults.
Discussing the controversy and stating your opinions in a constructive way is fine, but there will be bans for any player/organization bashing without anything to substantiate it.
Would it be wrong for this to be a standard rule of etiquette in general?
Genuine question, would making this a rule everywhere on TL be excessive or difficult to moderate or just something we don't want?
I personally feel like it would overall encourage people to think more before spamming posts about the first thing that pops into their head.
I've asked a few questions on this thread about how things work and made general inquiries about the subject and saw no response. Whether that was because the response was covered in a flood of spam or because the ones able to answer the question missed it in the flood of spam. Not that this will ever stop, but I think this rule would be a good idea.
(It's also possible my questions were bad, but ya know, w.e)
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United States33637 Posts
On January 19 2012 05:24 MrCash wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 05:17 Waxangel wrote:
Aight, player/personality bashing rules are in place, stop spamming up the thread with straight up insults.
Discussing the controversy and stating your opinions in a constructive way is fine, but there will be bans for any player/organization bashing without anything to substantiate it. Would it be wrong for this to be a standard rule of etiquette in general? Genuine question, would making this a rule everywhere on TL be excessive or difficult to moderate or just something we don't want? I personally feel like it would overall encourage people to think more before spamming posts about the first thing that pops into their head.
Standard, but dropped the ball for the first 48 pages
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These casual talks happen all the time in the business world as well as in professional sports. In fact that's how all of college recruiting occurs, and a lot of pro-team trades start with casual talks to see if the player is even interested. I really don't see how fnatic has done anything wrong, even if they did send their translator to talk.
And how is this always happening to TSL. Nearly all trades/pick ups by Western Teams of Koreans have gone extremely smoothely. In fact I can't think of any that have gone poorly; except all the former TSL players. I know most of these situations have come down to it being the players misconduct; but how is it constantly TSL. We know that other players have issues from time to time; but it seems to be handled very professionally by the teams, and even in blatant situations of player's fault, stephano, the teams stepped it up and handled the situation correctly. (I even still like stephano still, that situation was handled so well).
So I ask now... what will TSL do to handle the situation. Even if it is Alive's fault; how will TSL remedy this situation. I'm not a fan of them just pointing fingers and crying why us. (even if TSL is the victim; they also have a big oppurtunity to gain fans and fix their image if they step it up and are the bigger men/team/people thingy.)
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So how many members of the TL community would chip in and drop 5.00 towards Alive xfer fee to Team Liquid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would! Just saying.
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On January 18 2012 14:47 bigwig123 wrote:
all these problems with tsl mabey they are just making excuses for losing good players and not being happy about it
That would be the EG situation all over again..... at least alive has a contract whereas Puma did not. They actually may have a point here.
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On January 19 2012 05:27 1st_Panzer_Div. wrote:
These casual talks happen all the time in the business world as well as in professional sports. In fact that's how all of college recruiting occurs, and a lot of pro-team trades start with casual talks to see if the player is even interested. I really don't see how fnatic has done anything wrong, even if they did send their translator to talk.
And how is this always happening to TSL. Nearly all trades/pick ups by Western Teams of Koreans have gone extremely smoothely. In fact I can't think of any that have gone poorly; except all the former TSL players. I know most of these situations have come down to it being the players misconduct; but how is it constantly TSL. We know that other players have issues from time to time; but it seems to be handled very professionally by the teams, and even in blatant situations of player's fault, stephano, the teams stepped it up and handled the situation correctly. (I even still like stephano still, that situation was handled so well).
So I ask now... what will TSL do to handle the situation. Even if it is Alive's fault; how will TSL remedy this situation. I'm not a fan of them just pointing fingers and crying why us. (even if TSL is the victim; they also have a big oppurtunity to gain fans and fix their image if they step it up and are the bigger men/team/people thingy.)
From what I've seen and what has happened in the past, it seems like nothing much.
TSL will receive payment for breach of contract from alive, but let him go.
Coach Lee let other players go without drama, I think this time he was hurt because he feels another team literally stole a player from under him, who he feels TSL invested significantly into. Alive is doing quite well atm as well.
Code S players are extremely valuable. Only a tiny handful of player who ever participated in Code S (even GSL in general) are in foreign teams. It is a highly marketable status.
What I'm saying is I understand how coach Lee is much more upset about a player being stolen from under him rather than a player deciding he simply wants to leave because he isn't happy there. It looks like he just wants an apology from Fnatic for giving alive that extra push.
There is obviously evidence of alive thinking about leaving prior to the incident, but there is not telling how things would have happened if Fnatic did not intervene.
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I think one of the things a lot of people are missing here is that all of this occurred during the time period that Coach Lee was in negotiations of a partnership with Fnatic, and Fnatic players were training in the TSL house.
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So Alive spoke to Fnatic management, without going through his coach. That is a problem. Especially if your trying to get a partnership done.
Coach Lee might not be the brightest crayon in the box but he ain't the dullest. Fnatic really screwed this up.
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I feel really sorry for the players who have these sort of dramas related to when they quit / join new teams. It must be hard (although nice and fun too) to join a new game - but I definitely can't imagine them wanting EVEN MORE stress and having to worry about their reputation etc. From Fnatics point of view it's also terrible for their marketing, since instead of having a "Yay we got a new awesome korean :D, maybe we should get more since we're getting such good publicity ;D" it's more like "how the fuck did we get all this retarded drama".
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GSL and MLG need to agree upon terms for the e-sports industry and implement an international regulatory board with authority above either organization that mandates participating players and teams play under contractual obligations. It's proven and it works, all major league sports do it, even international sports. It's not like Man U can just go find some brilliant kid off the street and give him a jersey for the next season. There just has to be a process and enforceable rules to allow for trades.
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On January 19 2012 05:30 purecarnagge wrote:
So how many members of the TL community would chip in and drop 5.00 towards Alive xfer fee to Team Liquid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would! Just saying.
i whould too 
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TSL seems poorly managed...
On the other hand, Fnatic seems like a trash team desperate for players, because they don't know how to cultivate talent themselves. Exploiting young, naive Korean gamers seems easy enough.
User was warned for this post
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On January 19 2012 06:06 NMC wrote:
GSL and MLG need to agree upon terms for the e-sports industry and implement an international regulatory board with authority above either organization that mandates participating players and teams play under contractual obligations. It's proven and it works, all major league sports do it, even international sports. It's not like Man U can just go find some brilliant kid off the street and give him a jersey for the next season. There just has to be a process and enforceable rules to allow for trades.
Not gome but KeSPA 2.0 of some sorts. Just to set the standards. Well IeSpa I guess. International esports association.
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On January 19 2012 06:08 Ghostface_Killa wrote:
TSL seems poorly managed...
On the other hand, Fnatic seems like a trash team desperate for players, because they don't know how to cultivate talent themselves. Exploiting young, naive Korean gamers seems easy enough.
lol, what? Can you name a single foreign team that has "cultivated" its talent?
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On January 19 2012 06:12 suejak wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 06:08 Ghostface_Killa wrote:
TSL seems poorly managed...
On the other hand, Fnatic seems like a trash team desperate for players, because they don't know how to cultivate talent themselves. Exploiting young, naive Korean gamers seems easy enough. lol, what? Can you name a single foreign team that has "cultivated" its talent?
Liquid with huk. Millennium with stephano. Dignitas with naniwa. Those are to name a few
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On January 19 2012 06:12 suejak wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 06:08 Ghostface_Killa wrote:
TSL seems poorly managed...
On the other hand, Fnatic seems like a trash team desperate for players, because they don't know how to cultivate talent themselves. Exploiting young, naive Korean gamers seems easy enough. lol, what? Can you name a single foreign team that has "cultivated" its talent?
Dignitas and Mouz, though of course the teams do recruit established players. Actually Dignitas has pretty much cultivated all of its talent. That being said, I agree that most big name teams will be purchasing players who are established. Most of them feel there is no sense in taking a risk with an unknown player.
Edit: Also Millenium (and to an extend Liquid) as the person above had mentioned.
Edit 2: Ahh.. maybe also Empire.
Edit 3: ... And RoX.KIS
Edit 4: Also Complexity is somewhere in the middle, as they did look to buy Root, Stephano and Naniwa, but also had the complexity academy along side holding on to some of their B teamers for quite a bit.
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On January 19 2012 06:15 MattBarry wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 06:12 suejak wrote:On January 19 2012 06:08 Ghostface_Killa wrote:
TSL seems poorly managed...
On the other hand, Fnatic seems like a trash team desperate for players, because they don't know how to cultivate talent themselves. Exploiting young, naive Korean gamers seems easy enough. lol, what? Can you name a single foreign team that has "cultivated" its talent? Liquid with huk. Millennium with stephano. Dignitas with naniwa. Those are to name a few
Mouz with almost all its players.
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Paying for a few players to stay in a team house is too expensive for Fnatic? Poor Moon.
Coach Lee being too dramatic. If so many players keep leaving your team maybe it's time to look internally rather than blaming everyone else.
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needless drama queen coach
User was warned for this post
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On January 19 2012 05:33 VirgilSC2 wrote:
I think one of the things a lot of people are missing here is that all of this occurred during the time period that Coach Lee was in negotiations of a partnership with Fnatic, and Fnatic players were training in the TSL house.
I don't really think that's a big deal. Alive stated clearly that he doesn't like TSL's image and him and Lee discussed his possible release when Clide, Killer and Jyp left. For whatever reason, Alive decided to stay but not physically as an active teammate. I think his intentions were to stick out through some misplaced loyalty but ultimately didn't want to be there. He also stated that he wanted to talk to coach Lee before he officially joined fnatic.
His faults are clearly were talking with fnatic before talking to coach lee, but I think coach lee snooping around and taking this information and crying to the public bad mouthing both alive and fnatic is equal or worse than Alive talking to fnatics manager. So people can blame alive or fnatic, but the underlying problem is still a huge problem: TSL doesnt seem to be able to keep any of their big name players.
Alive's intention were to talk with coach Lee but coach lee spoiled it by secretly reading his skype conversations and then crying to the media (again..)
This is a difficult team to cheer for.
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EPT
