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Discussing the controversy and stating your opinions in a constructive way is fine, but there will be bans for any player/organization bashing without anything to substantiate it. | ||
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KanoCoke
Japan863 Posts
During the PuMa controversy, I initially sided with him until I saw how underhanded he himself was, immediately taking it to the presses RIGHT AFTER he had a conversation with PuMa and said everything was ok. Even PuMa was bewildered, because the conversation went well, and supposedly there were no hard feelings. Then BOOM. I hate these types of backstabbing assholes. | ||
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ChewSenTv
United States99 Posts
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Akta
447 Posts
On January 19 2012 02:22 Kazeyonoma wrote: It's a translation but it clearly implies that the skype conversation isn't something the coach should have been able to read.'his computer' is kind of vague. Does he own his own PC in the team house? Or is it as someone above mentioned, that the entire team house is likely funded by Coach Lee, and he therefore owns the equipment, giving him the right to look at whatever he wants. Guess what, maybe in europe it's illegal to search an employee's computer, but in the US, if there is reason for suspicion, an employer can search, and even dig through logs of your activity to see if there is reason for termination for breach of contract or employment obligations. That means if you're looking at kiddy porn on your PC, and an employer hears you might be doing that on work computers... they can search your PC, and if they find it, it IS evidence to be used to terminate you. | ||
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Flare23
United States27 Posts
On January 19 2012 02:26 WigglingSquid wrote: You certainly seem to be familiar with korean law. I'm a us lawyer who worked on projects in China, UK, most parts of the middle east, Africa, and most other parts of eastern Asia and Oceania. you are right, I am not 100 percent sure of Korean law. But This law is standard for most parts of the world, so I wouldn't bet against it. | ||
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moonmeh
Korea (South)105 Posts
But certainly there are parallels of Puma being bewildered and aLive being bewildered at the press because they both were led to believe by Coach Lee that it was okay and in aLive's case won't be attacking. | ||
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RusHXceL
United States1004 Posts
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docvoc
United States5491 Posts
On January 18 2012 15:45 ToD wrote: aLive hasn't joined us actually.... LOL WUT, ToD lays down the cliffhanger  | ||
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stratmatt
United States913 Posts
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ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
On January 19 2012 02:30 Jibba wrote: There was no breach of contract. aLive was in private discussions with fnatic and Lee found out before anything happened, through unknown means. According to aLive they talked it out and it had been settled with a reparation fee, and then Lee made this public. Personally, I think it was inappropriate to begin the discussion behind Lee's back, but whether the plan was to break the contract or not is unknown since they could've been preparing an offer for the future. Beyond that, Lee is just ... This is completely true, it could have been discussions that might bear fruit in the future. Just talking about signing another contract or changing teams is IMO not enough to really be a super huge deal to be dealt with legally. Since aLive hasn't signed anything so his contract hadn't been breached. Discussions are not breaches. They might not be very professional but they are not breaches. It would only be a breach of contract if he had actually agreed to terms and put that to paper and signed. This was not the case. If anything, Coach Lee is at most fault for obtaining a log from a private skype conversation. He started the whole mess and had he not then it wouldn't be an issue. Furthermore, there has to be some underlying reason so many players want to leave TSL and are unhappy. If he had focused more of his energy on trying to remedy these issues then its entirely possible this would never have happened in the first place. Heck, if I was a player I would never join TSL for fear of my name being dragged through the mud or possible consequences for acting out of line with Coach Lee's expectations of me. Not only with regards to teams et. al. but anything. If he can get this mad and this denigrating towards other teams and players like aLive over a private discussion that had yet to bear any fruit then I don't want to know what lead aLive and other players to talk to outside teams in the first place. Please note: What Alive did was unprofessional but legal. What Coach Lee is doing is even more unprofessional and harmful to the player and his team. Alive leaving TSL after having secret talks with another team but not saying anything bad about the team and paying a fee for ending his contract early is one thing. Coach Lee speaking poorly of the player and the other team and threatening legal action over no true breach of contract publicly is harmful to himself, his team and his players. | ||
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NexUmbra
Scotland3776 Posts
On January 18 2012 14:50 rauk wrote: if all these players (rain, puma, clide, sangho, alive, etc) are so eager to jump ship from TSL clearly coach lee is doing something wrong Rain wanted to be with his dad in new york PuMa wouldn't have been pinched if he hadn't gone to NASL Clide wanted to be with his friends in the slayers house(iirc) SangHo and JYP left because of a stricter practice regime | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
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Moosy
Canada396 Posts
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aderum
Sweden1459 Posts
On January 19 2012 02:22 Kazeyonoma wrote: 'his computer' is kind of vague. Does he own his own PC in the team house? Or is it as someone above mentioned, that the entire team house is likely funded by Coach Lee, and he therefore owns the equipment, giving him the right to look at whatever he wants. Guess what, maybe in europe it's illegal to search an employee's computer, but in the US, if there is reason for suspicion, an employer can search, and even dig through logs of your activity to see if there is reason for termination for breach of contract or employment obligations. That means if you're looking at kiddy porn on your PC, and an employer hears you might be doing that on work computers... they can search your PC, and if they find it, it IS evidence to be used to terminate you. So if your employer suspect you might be talking to another company he has the right to look through your personal Skype-conversations? Thats pretty messed up. | ||
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D_K_night
Canada615 Posts
1. alive left TSL of his own accord and own personal reasons 2. alive joins Fnatic 3. TSL coach erupts maybe, just maybe what happened was there was not enough of a "cooling period" between steps 1 and 2. because if alive left on his own, then the contract is terminated - unless there is a no-competition clause in there, which is pretty typical of contracts. if there was no clause like that in there, than maybe if alive waited say a week(?) then joined fnatic, then things would not look like they are now. But if there is indeed a no-competition clause in the contract, then there is trouble brewing for alive. | ||
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ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
On January 19 2012 02:41 GreEny K wrote: I don't see what the big deal here is... aLive isn't even on Fnatic... Thats actually exactly what the problem is. This discussion is less about "alive did something wrong" and more about "wtf is going on at TSL and why is coach Lee always trying to drag people's names in the mud whenever they want to leave the team". Then it necessarily gets down to whether or not alive truly did anything wrong at all which most people are slowly realising: he never did with regards to his contract in a legal sense. | ||
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ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
On January 19 2012 02:43 D_K_night wrote: so if we summarize the sequence of events: 1. alive left TSL of his own accord and own personal reasons 2. alive joins Fnatic 3. TSL coach erupts maybe, just maybe what happened was there was not enough of a "cooling period" between steps 1 and 2. because if alive left on his own, then the contract is terminated - unless there is a no-competition clause in there, which is pretty typical of contracts. if there was no clause like that in there, than maybe if alive waited say a week(?) then joined fnatic, then things would not look like they are now. But if there is indeed a no-competition clause in the contract, then there is trouble brewing for alive. He hasn't actually signed a contract with TSL the sequence of events: 1. TSL starts losing players; some are unhappy. 2. Alive stays on TSL because of his contract but is not actively a member of the team (member in name only) 3. Alive discusses potential for a future with a new team 4. Coach Lee gets skype logs (somehow) and confronts alive. 5. Alive apologises, explains he wants to leave will pay whatever contract breach fees he has to. 6. Coach Lee goes public and starts a bunch of drama (as usual .... ) 7. Alive is flabbergasted, he had discussed this in private 8. Alive is now teamless as was his plan 9. Alive was planning on leaving TSL, paying fees, being teamless then later joining fnatic. 10. Alive has yet to sign a contract with fnatic, and has yet to pay the fees 11. Coach Lee and TSL will be seeking legal advice and dealing with the issue potentially in the courts. -_- crap double post, sorry | ||
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D_K_night
Canada615 Posts
On January 19 2012 02:43 aderum wrote: So if your employer suspect you might be talking to another company he has the right to look through your personal Skype-conversations? Thats pretty messed up. well that's nothing new. If you are using equipment provided to you by your employer, they have every right to that equipment. period. it is not yours. it belongs to the company, not you. you were merely the user. | ||
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InternalSync
176 Posts
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careohx
263 Posts
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laharl23
United States582 Posts
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