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Discussing the controversy and stating your opinions in a constructive way is fine, but there will be bans for any player/organization bashing without anything to substantiate it. |
On January 19 2012 01:48 Fionn wrote:
"Poor aLive"
"Alive is young it's not his fault"
"Don't fault Alive here."
This is why people don't take e-sports seriously. When a player breaches a freaking contract and people act like it's a-okay because he didn't like his situation, it just shows how far Starcraft 2 still has to come to even be seen as anything more than a hobby. Alive got a place to stay and eat while also getting paid money from the contract he signed. He signed a contract that would last until July.
Shit, Coach Lee even let JYP, Clide and Killer go without any hesitation. No bad drama. Nothing. All three left and we didn't hear any negative talk at all except Coach Lee had a new vision on how he wanted his team to be. Alive treated this situation terribly.
My sentiments exactly, all of this anti-coach, anti-TSL conjecture we're getting is mind blowing to me. The player is 100% at fault here, the fact that he has some evidence, suddenly invalidates the fact that Alive was attempting to breach a contract BECAUSE he knew fnatic was waiting for him is the shady thing.
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Maybe the TSL Coach is trying to squeeze more money out of Fanatic for buying out the contract. When EG contracted Puma the public outcry pressured EG into paying TSL a substiantial amount even though Puma wasn't even under TSL contract.
On the other hand, that conversation between friends stuff about a contract for Fanatic seems kinda bullshit to me. Even if they didn't approach Alive officially. If someone who works for Fanatic and knows how much they would be willing to pay Alive, talks to him about it directly there isn't really that big of a difference imho.
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On January 19 2012 01:48 Fionn wrote:
"Poor aLive"
"Alive is young it's not his fault"
"Don't fault Alive here."
This is why people don't take e-sports seriously. When a player breaches a freaking contract and people act like it's a-okay because he didn't like his situation, it just shows how far Starcraft 2 still has to come to even be seen as anything more than a hobby. Alive got a place to stay and eat while also getting paid money from the contract he signed. He signed a contract that would last until July.
Shit, Coach Lee even let JYP, Clide and Killer go without any hesitation. No bad drama. Nothing. All three left and we didn't hear any negative talk at all except Coach Lee had a new vision on how he wanted his team to be. Alive treated this situation terribly.
Or he kind of breached it? Either way I don't want to argue the issue, so edited.
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On January 19 2012 01:53 Witten wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 01:48 Fionn wrote:
"Poor aLive"
"Alive is young it's not his fault"
"Don't fault Alive here."
This is why people don't take e-sports seriously. When a player breaches a freaking contract and people act like it's a-okay because he didn't like his situation, it just shows how far Starcraft 2 still has to come to even be seen as anything more than a hobby. Alive got a place to stay and eat while also getting paid money from the contract he signed. He signed a contract that would last until July.
Shit, Coach Lee even let JYP, Clide and Killer go without any hesitation. No bad drama. Nothing. All three left and we didn't hear any negative talk at all except Coach Lee had a new vision on how he wanted his team to be. Alive treated this situation terribly. But... he didn't breach his contract? Unless his contact says he can't talk to people who are involved with other teams. And even if it does say that, no one actually KNOWS that. So what you're talking about is an assumption.
He said in his interview that he was leaving for fnatic and recieved an offer from the translator and was going to finalize the details with management the upcoming day. So he kind of breached it.
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On January 19 2012 01:48 Fionn wrote:
"Poor aLive"
"Alive is young it's not his fault"
"Don't fault Alive here."
This is why people don't take e-sports seriously. When a player breaches a freaking contract and people act like it's a-okay because he didn't like his situation, it just shows how far Starcraft 2 still has to come to even be seen as anything more than a hobby. Alive got a place to stay and eat while also getting paid money from the contract he signed. He signed a contract that would last until July.
Shit, Coach Lee even let JYP, Clide and Killer go without any hesitation. No bad drama. Nothing. All three left and we didn't hear any negative talk at all except Coach Lee had a new vision on how he wanted his team to be. Alive treated this situation terribly.
I find the mentality of a lot of people very confusing.
A lot of the time they sympathize with the player, for obvious reasons, and will try to come up with justifications, regardless of reasons, to excuse a behavior. I think this is the case most of the time.
However, in certain cases I find the opposite to be true as well.
There was a discussion about player salaries, where people were making arguments that players are being greedy and are asking for too much money, with 0 insight on how much money their organizations were making in general.
There is too much emotion sometimes and not enough reason, I don't think a lot of people who are stuck on an opinion without logic will not be convinced simply by pointing out the flaws in their reasoning. Their "reasoning" came after deciding how they felt about the topic.
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On January 19 2012 01:51 blamekilly wrote:
How come players and teams never learn? You contact the team first before you contact the player. If you're the player, you talk to your team and tell them you want out or wait until your contract expires and then go find a new team. If you do it in any other way, it's called tampering.
ALL MAJOR SPORTS HAVE RULES AND REGULATIONS IN REGARDS TO TAMPERING. They have heavy fines for commiting such acts.
This has happened not once, but twice to Coach Lee. All he wants is his players or other teams to contact him first. And maybe a transfer fee if he's still under contract.
And yet, he's being passive aggressive towards Fnatic. And if you read the translated interview, you'll read that it wasn't the first time Alive talked about leaving TSL. To not expect talks to another team to be done by the player after that seems naive at best. This reaction seems disproportionate, so is taking all this to public yet again like the Puma thing. Before that you could actually talk to the other team first. Seriously.
Second, I've known and watched starcraft waayyy before i even registered on the forums. So spare me the low count bs.
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I think things are definitely gonna be just fine for aLive. He's a Code S RO16 player. Its not like he'll be teamless.
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Are you the physical manifestation of ESPORTS? O.o
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On January 19 2012 01:48 Fionn wrote:
"Poor aLive"
"Alive is young it's not his fault"
"Don't fault Alive here."
This is why people don't take e-sports seriously. When a player breaches a freaking contract and people act like it's a-okay because he didn't like his situation, it just shows how far Starcraft 2 still has to come to even be seen as anything more than a hobby. Alive got a place to stay and eat while also getting paid money from the contract he signed. He signed a contract that would last until July.
Shit, Coach Lee even let JYP, Clide and Killer go without any hesitation. No bad drama. Nothing. All three left and we didn't hear any negative talk at all except Coach Lee had a new vision on how he wanted his team to be. Alive treated this situation terribly.
Unless his contract states that he may not talk to another team about a possible move, he hasn't breached anything. He talked to another team, which in most industries is perfectly legal in the last 6 months of a contract, he already intended to leave before he started talking with Fnatic.
Did he handle the situation badly? Yes.
Did he do anything illegal by talking to Fnatic? Probably not.
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On January 19 2012 01:51 blamekilly wrote:
How come players and teams never learn? You contact the team first before you contact the player. If you're the player, you talk to your team and tell them you want out or wait until your contract expires and then go find a new team. If you do it in any other way, it's called tampering.
ALL MAJOR SPORTS HAVE RULES AND REGULATIONS IN REGARDS TO TAMPERING. They have heavy fines for commiting such acts.
This has happened not once, but twice to Coach Lee. All he wants is his players or other teams to contact him first. And maybe a transfer fee if he's still under contract.
You realize that Fnatic didn't even make aLive an offer, right?
And that there was nothing illegal about what Fnatic did?
And that Coach Lee is more pissed at aLive, and not so much at Fnatic?
And that you're making a sweeping generalization in regards to "tampering"?
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Maybe some foreign team should think about making an offer to Lee to make their players better... This way he wouldn't have to deal with the management side of things and could just do what he does best. 
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On January 19 2012 01:48 Fionn wrote:
"Poor aLive"
"Alive is young it's not his fault"
"Don't fault Alive here."
This is why people don't take e-sports seriously. When a player breaches a freaking contract and people act like it's a-okay because he didn't like his situation, it just shows how far Starcraft 2 still has to come to even be seen as anything more than a hobby. Alive got a place to stay and eat while also getting paid money from the contract he signed. He signed a contract that would last until July.
Shit, Coach Lee even let JYP, Clide and Killer go without any hesitation. No bad drama. Nothing. All three left and we didn't hear any negative talk at all except Coach Lee had a new vision on how he wanted his team to be. Alive treated this situation terribly.
Bullshit, no one here suggests that aLive isn't responsible for his actions.
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On January 19 2012 01:51 blamekilly wrote:
How come players and teams never learn? You contact the team first before you contact the player. If you're the player, you talk to your team and tell them you want out or wait until your contract expires and then go find a new team. If you do it in any other way, it's called tampering.
ALL MAJOR SPORTS HAVE RULES AND REGULATIONS IN REGARDS TO TAMPERING. They have heavy fines for commiting such acts.
This has happened not once, but twice to Coach Lee. All he wants is his players or other teams to contact him first. And maybe a transfer fee if he's still under contract. Regardless of the yelling in your post, people will always talk to people. Call it "trying to get a feel for the situation" or whatever, that's just how it works.
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On January 19 2012 01:55 Eee wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 01:53 Witten wrote:On January 19 2012 01:48 Fionn wrote:
"Poor aLive"
"Alive is young it's not his fault"
"Don't fault Alive here."
This is why people don't take e-sports seriously. When a player breaches a freaking contract and people act like it's a-okay because he didn't like his situation, it just shows how far Starcraft 2 still has to come to even be seen as anything more than a hobby. Alive got a place to stay and eat while also getting paid money from the contract he signed. He signed a contract that would last until July.
Shit, Coach Lee even let JYP, Clide and Killer go without any hesitation. No bad drama. Nothing. All three left and we didn't hear any negative talk at all except Coach Lee had a new vision on how he wanted his team to be. Alive treated this situation terribly. But... he didn't breach his contract? Unless his contact says he can't talk to people who are involved with other teams. And even if it does say that, no one actually KNOWS that. So what you're talking about is an assumption. He said in his interview that he was leaving for fnatic and recieved an offer from the translator and was going to finalize the details with management the upcoming day. So he kind of breached it.
He said in the interview that he talked to the translator, but also that he had wanted to change teams way before that, had already talked to Lee about it, and wanted to talk to him about it, just happened before he could. While you could say he breached his contract, i don't see that as a big fault, especially with 5 months left in his contract.And to be honest I don't understand that talking to the team before. Players are not objects, they can decide by themselves.
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I hope aLive's personal statement (from Twitter) gets updated to this thread when it gets released. The other (GSL spoiler) thread says he'll be releasing one.
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TSL is a fucked up team to be in =/
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On January 19 2012 02:00 emythrel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 01:48 Fionn wrote:
"Poor aLive"
"Alive is young it's not his fault"
"Don't fault Alive here."
This is why people don't take e-sports seriously. When a player breaches a freaking contract and people act like it's a-okay because he didn't like his situation, it just shows how far Starcraft 2 still has to come to even be seen as anything more than a hobby. Alive got a place to stay and eat while also getting paid money from the contract he signed. He signed a contract that would last until July.
Shit, Coach Lee even let JYP, Clide and Killer go without any hesitation. No bad drama. Nothing. All three left and we didn't hear any negative talk at all except Coach Lee had a new vision on how he wanted his team to be. Alive treated this situation terribly. Unless his contract states that he may not talk to another team about a possible move, he hasn't breached anything. He talked to another team, which in most industries is perfectly legal in the last 6 months of a contract, he already intended to leave before he started talking with Fnatic. Did he handle the situation badly? Yes. Did he do anything illegal by talking to Fnatic? Probably not.
He quit the team while still under contract. That is called a breach of contract.
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Wow theres so much players leaving/joining new teams lately .. MC leaves oGs, then Golden and Dragon leave SlayerS, now this and it hasnt been even a week .. just wow :d
To the topic i feel aLive did handle this very poorly i mean contacting other team while under contract seems pretty stupid to me
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On January 19 2012 02:04 jellyjello wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 02:00 emythrel wrote:On January 19 2012 01:48 Fionn wrote:
"Poor aLive"
"Alive is young it's not his fault"
"Don't fault Alive here."
This is why people don't take e-sports seriously. When a player breaches a freaking contract and people act like it's a-okay because he didn't like his situation, it just shows how far Starcraft 2 still has to come to even be seen as anything more than a hobby. Alive got a place to stay and eat while also getting paid money from the contract he signed. He signed a contract that would last until July.
Shit, Coach Lee even let JYP, Clide and Killer go without any hesitation. No bad drama. Nothing. All three left and we didn't hear any negative talk at all except Coach Lee had a new vision on how he wanted his team to be. Alive treated this situation terribly. Unless his contract states that he may not talk to another team about a possible move, he hasn't breached anything. He talked to another team, which in most industries is perfectly legal in the last 6 months of a contract, he already intended to leave before he started talking with Fnatic. Did he handle the situation badly? Yes. Did he do anything illegal by talking to Fnatic? Probably not. He quit the team while still under contract. That is called a breach of contract.
Well according to aLive, who I will take a his word since he has been quite humble considering the situation, Coach Lee told him that he could leave if he wished at the same time JYP and Clide left. If he has breached his contract by leaving, then thats life, but he didn't breach his contract by talking with Fnatic. Coach Lee was aware aLive was leaving, he told aLive they would do it all nice and civil and then blind sided him on his play day with a negative article.
If you tell a player they can leave, then you are giving them permission to break their contract. If aLive can prove this occurred then all the better, as he would no longer have to pay a fee.
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Honestly the only fucked up thing Coach Lee did was search Alive's computer without consent and print out the skype conversation. That just seems wrong to me.
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EPT
