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On January 10 2012 07:33 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 07:30 cyclone25 wrote:On January 10 2012 07:11 chenchen wrote:Most of you foreigner fanboys are seriously delusional. Look at the tournaments with Koreans that foreigners have managed to win. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_TournamentsHuk, Stephano, and Naniwa have like one significant win each . . . at tournaments that had foreigner majorities and Korean minorities on foreign soil. "Someone made a list earlier and I think foreigners won more tournaments" . . No, not true at all. Koreans still win the vast majority of major international events that they attend. Let's take the result from September: Blizzard cup had 8 top koreans vs 2 top foreigners. The result of this tournament should be excluded from start because koreans start with a 80% chance to win it assuming players are equally skilled. AoL had only koreans, excluded too. Same story for GSL: for example, the last one had 31 koreans and 1 foreigner in Code S, you simply can't look at the result of this event and say "koreans are better". Koreans: HSC 4, WCG, DreamHack, MLG, Blizzcon, IEM NY, DreamHack, NASL Foreigners: ESWC, MLG, IEM Guangzhou, IPL, MLG Koreans 8 events won, Foreigners 5. Where is the big difference? The tournaments the Koreans won were about 20% or less korean as far as distribution goes The tournaments that foreigners won had about 80% or more of their distribution being foreigners. There's your difference. In none of those tournaments were there a majority of Koreans, or even CLOSE to a majority of Koreans. And yet they still won a majority. How do people still argue about this?
We're comparing the number of top players only. Of course MLG has a lot of players that aren't even masters.
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On January 10 2012 07:42 fourColo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 07:40 1Eris1 wrote:On January 10 2012 07:39 fourColo wrote:
Foreigners aren't lazy, I hate that stupid stereotype. It's garbage and more than anything indicates the shitty school your respective country has since it failed to teach critical thinking skills.
Koreans have VAST advantages over pretty much every country. Amazing infrastructure, dense population, existing talent from BW, PC cafes, etc. Even esports broadcasted on TV will help groom small children. When Boxer won his first starleague, Flash was eight years old -- a great age to find a rolemodel. Most Koreans live in a huge city that can easily support team houses and the country has gigantic industries that are already setup for sponsoring pro teams. Actually yeah, a considerable amount of foreigners ARE lazy. Plenty of them say they only play 3-4 hours a day, compared to the general 8-12 of the Koreans. Plenty of Koreans don't practice as much as they should too though. The top foreigners practice hard, and calling foreigners lazy is insulting to them. It doesn't do the mid-low tier foreigners any good either, as it sets expectations artificially low.
I said a considerable amount of foreigners are lazy. I know Idra and Naniwa practice alot, and thats why they are sucessful.
And no, not all Koreans practice very hard. Guess where you will find most of them? In Code B.
I gurantee you the top 64 Koreans (code A and S) practice way more on average than the top 64 foreigners.
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On January 10 2012 07:32 ReachTheSky wrote:
Koreans are better because they actually dedicate themselves to play 10-12 hours a day. If foreigners did that i'm sure they would be able to compete with higher chances of winning. Foreigners are lazy.
That seems to be what the foreigner fans say. They think practice = become best players in the world. It's not that simple imo.
Practice can improve your mechanics but what about game knowledge, APM, multi-tasking ability, being fearless, composure under high pressure, and just overall IQ, etc. There's always that natural ability element ppl cannot get through 12 hours of practice.
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On January 10 2012 07:30 cyclone25 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 07:11 chenchen wrote:Most of you foreigner fanboys are seriously delusional. Look at the tournaments with Koreans that foreigners have managed to win. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_TournamentsHuk, Stephano, and Naniwa have like one significant win each . . . at tournaments that had foreigner majorities and Korean minorities on foreign soil. "Someone made a list earlier and I think foreigners won more tournaments" . . No, not true at all. Koreans still win the vast majority of major international events that they attend. Let's take the result from September: Blizzard cup had 8 top koreans vs 2 top foreigners. The result of this tournament should be excluded from start because koreans start with a 80% chance to win it assuming players are equally skilled. AoL had only koreans, excluded too. Same story for GSL: for example, the last one had 31 koreans and 1 foreigner in Code S, you simply can't look at the result of this event and say "koreans are better". Koreans: HSC 4, WCG, DreamHack, MLG, Blizzcon, IEM NY, DreamHack, NASL Foreigners: ESWC, MLG, IEM Guangzhou, IPL, MLG Koreans won 8 events, Foreigners 5. Where is the big difference?
If you can't look at the number of major offline tournaments each foreigner won compared to Koreans, look at the winrate of Koreans to foreigners. It doesn't take much calculation to realise that Koreans > foreigners almost all the time.
You said to look at Blizzcup. Discounting the probe rush, Naniwa had an 0-4 result and Stephano had a 2-2 result. That's 2 wins and 6 losses, a win rate of 25%. Bear in mind that Naniwa and Stephano were considered to be the best foreign players the world had to offer (Huk having dropped into Code A, and few representatives from EU like Nerchio etc).
And that was considered OK. Stephano was praised for going 2-2 against some of the best Koreans in the world, Naniwa... well, everyone knows what happened after that for Naniwa. It wasn't considered a triumph for foreigners, but it wasn't considered BAD.
When a 25% result is considered decent (nobody was shocked by how bad it was), you know that foreigners just aren't as consistently good as Koreans.
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On January 10 2012 07:43 cyclone25 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 07:33 1Eris1 wrote:On January 10 2012 07:30 cyclone25 wrote:On January 10 2012 07:11 chenchen wrote:Most of you foreigner fanboys are seriously delusional. Look at the tournaments with Koreans that foreigners have managed to win. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_TournamentsHuk, Stephano, and Naniwa have like one significant win each . . . at tournaments that had foreigner majorities and Korean minorities on foreign soil. "Someone made a list earlier and I think foreigners won more tournaments" . . No, not true at all. Koreans still win the vast majority of major international events that they attend. Let's take the result from September: Blizzard cup had 8 top koreans vs 2 top foreigners. The result of this tournament should be excluded from start because koreans start with a 80% chance to win it assuming players are equally skilled. AoL had only koreans, excluded too. Same story for GSL: for example, the last one had 31 koreans and 1 foreigner in Code S, you simply can't look at the result of this event and say "koreans are better". Koreans: HSC 4, WCG, DreamHack, MLG, Blizzcon, IEM NY, DreamHack, NASL Foreigners: ESWC, MLG, IEM Guangzhou, IPL, MLG Koreans 8 events won, Foreigners 5. Where is the big difference? The tournaments the Koreans won were about 20% or less korean as far as distribution goes The tournaments that foreigners won had about 80% or more of their distribution being foreigners. There's your difference. In none of those tournaments were there a majority of Koreans, or even CLOSE to a majority of Koreans. And yet they still won a majority. How do people still argue about this? We're comparing the number of top players only. Of course MLG has a lot of players that aren't even masters.
Guangzhou was 4 Koreans to 12 foreigners. 11 of those foreigners are well known solid players. Two of those foreigners aren't even/barely Code A level.
A Korean got top 3
ESWC: Not much on liqupedia here. I know there were far more "good" foreigners than good koreans here though.
A Korean got top 3
IPL was basically dominated by Koreans as far the top ten goes, except Stephano took no.1. Hardly a good example.
Which MLG are you talking about? Orlando? It's the same situation as IPL. (Koreans took 6 of the top 8), and both HuK and Idra benefited from group staging
What other MLG are you talking about?
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On January 10 2012 07:46 Strivers wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 07:32 ReachTheSky wrote:
Koreans are better because they actually dedicate themselves to play 10-12 hours a day. If foreigners did that i'm sure they would be able to compete with higher chances of winning. Foreigners are lazy. That seems to be what the foreigner fans say. They think practice = become best players in the world. It's not that simple imo. Practice can improve your mechanics but what about game knowledge, APM, multi-tasking ability, being fearless, composure under high pressure, and just overall IQ, etc. There's always that natural ability element ppl cannot get through 12 hours of practice.
seriously? wheres the argument in that of course practice increases and improves what you just said........
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On January 10 2012 07:44 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 07:42 fourColo wrote:On January 10 2012 07:40 1Eris1 wrote:On January 10 2012 07:39 fourColo wrote:
Foreigners aren't lazy, I hate that stupid stereotype. It's garbage and more than anything indicates the shitty school your respective country has since it failed to teach critical thinking skills.
Koreans have VAST advantages over pretty much every country. Amazing infrastructure, dense population, existing talent from BW, PC cafes, etc. Even esports broadcasted on TV will help groom small children. When Boxer won his first starleague, Flash was eight years old -- a great age to find a rolemodel. Most Koreans live in a huge city that can easily support team houses and the country has gigantic industries that are already setup for sponsoring pro teams. Actually yeah, a considerable amount of foreigners ARE lazy. Plenty of them say they only play 3-4 hours a day, compared to the general 8-12 of the Koreans. Plenty of Koreans don't practice as much as they should too though. The top foreigners practice hard, and calling foreigners lazy is insulting to them. It doesn't do the mid-low tier foreigners any good either, as it sets expectations artificially low. I said a considerable amount of foreigners are lazy. I know Idra and Naniwa practice alot, and thats why they are sucessful. And no, not all Koreans practice very hard. Guess where you will find most of them? In Code B. I gurantee you the top 64 Koreans (code A and S) practice way more on average than the top 64 foreigners.
First of all you have no real data to support this stupid stereotype. Second, if you're measuring effort by hours spent practicing, a lot of this can be explained by the lack of foreign team houses. And the answer to the lack of team houses isn't just "go build a team house", it requires significant investment by the team, the sponsors, and the players, often much much more than is required for a Korean team house.
Koreans can just rent out an apartment in Seoul and house a dozen or so players easily. Most teams have A team and B team players and are constantly shuffling them around. SlayerS for example holds qualifier tournaments for random dudes to get scouted. EG is one of the few foreign teams with a house but they're not going to get a big turnout if they hold random qualifier tournaments in Arizona. It's not even clear they can support a bunch of B team players who aren't all expected to give results and big showings.
What I'm saying is that the infrastructure difference is so incomparably in favor of the Koreans that it's completely stupid to generalize EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD EXCEPT KOREA and call them lazy.
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Make the Korean ladder playable for everyone with as little latency as possible.
You'll see a huge improvement from the foreigners.
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what happened to "skill gap is closing, its nothing like it was in bw" that was being said around couple of months ago?
go white people! i was suspecting huk to be the second coming of grrr... but not yet 
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On January 10 2012 07:43 cyclone25 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 07:33 1Eris1 wrote:On January 10 2012 07:30 cyclone25 wrote:On January 10 2012 07:11 chenchen wrote:Most of you foreigner fanboys are seriously delusional. Look at the tournaments with Koreans that foreigners have managed to win. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_TournamentsHuk, Stephano, and Naniwa have like one significant win each . . . at tournaments that had foreigner majorities and Korean minorities on foreign soil. "Someone made a list earlier and I think foreigners won more tournaments" . . No, not true at all. Koreans still win the vast majority of major international events that they attend. Let's take the result from September: Blizzard cup had 8 top koreans vs 2 top foreigners. The result of this tournament should be excluded from start because koreans start with a 80% chance to win it assuming players are equally skilled. AoL had only koreans, excluded too. Same story for GSL: for example, the last one had 31 koreans and 1 foreigner in Code S, you simply can't look at the result of this event and say "koreans are better". Koreans: HSC 4, WCG, DreamHack, MLG, Blizzcon, IEM NY, DreamHack, NASL Foreigners: ESWC, MLG, IEM Guangzhou, IPL, MLG Koreans 8 events won, Foreigners 5. Where is the big difference? The tournaments the Koreans won were about 20% or less korean as far as distribution goes The tournaments that foreigners won had about 80% or more of their distribution being foreigners. There's your difference. In none of those tournaments were there a majority of Koreans, or even CLOSE to a majority of Koreans. And yet they still won a majority. How do people still argue about this? We're comparing the number of top players only. Of course MLG has a lot of players that aren't even masters.
I'm not even going to bother arguing against someone who contradicts himself every other post.
You said that you wouldn't count tournaments with less than 5 from either side, and yet you counted tournaments with less than five Koreans as foreigner wins.
If you're really going to do that, you might as well count Code A. How come the foreign invites to Code A aren't winning Code A? These are supposedly top foreigners like Thorzain, Sase, Select, and Sjow. If a handful of Korean invites can manage to win, how come these top foreigners can't?
Simple answer: Koreans are better than foreigners. Top Koreans are better than top foreigners. Top foreigners can take games off of Koreans but those are considered huge upsets which happen very rarely. Koreans have overwhelmingly dominant records against foreigners.
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On January 10 2012 07:52 naux wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 07:46 Strivers wrote:On January 10 2012 07:32 ReachTheSky wrote:
Koreans are better because they actually dedicate themselves to play 10-12 hours a day. If foreigners did that i'm sure they would be able to compete with higher chances of winning. Foreigners are lazy. That seems to be what the foreigner fans say. They think practice = become best players in the world. It's not that simple imo. Practice can improve your mechanics but what about game knowledge, APM, multi-tasking ability, being fearless, composure under high pressure, and just overall IQ, etc. There's always that natural ability element ppl cannot get through 12 hours of practice. seriously? wheres the argument in that of course practice increases and improves what you just said........
How are you even supposed to practice in NA? In the most recent tournament, HSC, Koreans outnumbered North Americans almost 2-1. Literally 0 NA players made it to the second stage of group play. 12 hours of practice on the NA server sounds like a total waste of time.
On January 10 2012 07:54 Elefanto wrote:
Make the Korean ladder playable for everyone with as little latency as possible.
You'll see a huge improvement from the foreigners.
This would be huge and incredibly beneficial.
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On January 10 2012 07:54 fourColo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 07:44 1Eris1 wrote:On January 10 2012 07:42 fourColo wrote:On January 10 2012 07:40 1Eris1 wrote:On January 10 2012 07:39 fourColo wrote:
Foreigners aren't lazy, I hate that stupid stereotype. It's garbage and more than anything indicates the shitty school your respective country has since it failed to teach critical thinking skills.
Koreans have VAST advantages over pretty much every country. Amazing infrastructure, dense population, existing talent from BW, PC cafes, etc. Even esports broadcasted on TV will help groom small children. When Boxer won his first starleague, Flash was eight years old -- a great age to find a rolemodel. Most Koreans live in a huge city that can easily support team houses and the country has gigantic industries that are already setup for sponsoring pro teams. Actually yeah, a considerable amount of foreigners ARE lazy. Plenty of them say they only play 3-4 hours a day, compared to the general 8-12 of the Koreans. Plenty of Koreans don't practice as much as they should too though. The top foreigners practice hard, and calling foreigners lazy is insulting to them. It doesn't do the mid-low tier foreigners any good either, as it sets expectations artificially low. I said a considerable amount of foreigners are lazy. I know Idra and Naniwa practice alot, and thats why they are sucessful. And no, not all Koreans practice very hard. Guess where you will find most of them? In Code B. I gurantee you the top 64 Koreans (code A and S) practice way more on average than the top 64 foreigners. First of all you have no real data to support this stupid stereotype. Second, if you're measuring effort by hours spent practicing, a lot of this can be explained by the lack of foreign team houses. And the answer to the lack of team houses isn't just "go build a team house", it requires significant investment by the team, the sponsors, and the players, often much much more than is required for a Korean team house. Koreans can just rent out an apartment in Seoul and house a dozen or so players easily. Most teams have A team and B team players and are constantly shuffling them around. SlayerS for example holds qualifier tournaments for random dudes to get scouted. EG is one of the few foreign teams with a house but they're not going to get a big turnout if they hold random qualifier tournaments in Arizona. It's not even clear they can support a bunch of B team players who aren't all expected to give results and big showings. What I'm saying is that the infrastructure difference is so incomparably in favor of the Koreans that it's completely stupid to generalize EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD EXCEPT KOREA and call them lazy.
Err, do you really want me to link each individual foreigner talking about how much they play?
And most Korean game houses require you to practice a lot if you want to stay in it, and considering everyone (or 99% that is) in Code A/S is on a team...
And no, I'm not saying go build a team house. I think it's a terrific idea, but hard to manage.
We all know Custom with teammates>ladder, but I'd still argue 8 hours of ladder>3 hours of ladder. And they're plenty of foreigners who could easily make that jump, but they are either lazy or don't want to make the game their primary form of income.
That's what I mean by lazy. I don't think if every foreigner started practicing like mad we'd close the gap completely, obviously we would need teamhouses/support for that, but I certainly think we could close the gap considerably.
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France12899 Posts
On January 10 2012 07:54 Elefanto wrote:
Make the Korean ladder playable for everyone with as little latency as possible.
You'll see a huge improvement from the foreigners.
Lol? NA players can play on either KR or EU, and still EU are better overall. That doesn't make sense.
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One fairly important thing that I think people often miss is that Code S and Code A players have time to prepare for their matches every single time.
Which means GSL matches are almost always played by players when they're at tip top shape. Not to mention the huge metagame between players in Code S, note the crazy records between certain players of seriously different caliber in the GSL. (See Coca ripping Sangho in half 2-0 in a not even close series (GSL) to the general rolling of Coca by Sangho during a weekly in some fairly lopsided games)
This is as opposed to weekend cups like HHSC or MLG or IPL, where basic mechanical strength and endurance are much more prized than absolute maximums. Where solid overall players have solid overall results.
I guess it's like comparing professional boxing matches and marathon fight clubs.
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I'm going to stick to my principle that statistics in Starcraft are both meaningless and often times misleading.
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On January 10 2012 07:59 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 07:54 fourColo wrote:On January 10 2012 07:44 1Eris1 wrote:On January 10 2012 07:42 fourColo wrote:On January 10 2012 07:40 1Eris1 wrote:On January 10 2012 07:39 fourColo wrote:
Foreigners aren't lazy, I hate that stupid stereotype. It's garbage and more than anything indicates the shitty school your respective country has since it failed to teach critical thinking skills.
Koreans have VAST advantages over pretty much every country. Amazing infrastructure, dense population, existing talent from BW, PC cafes, etc. Even esports broadcasted on TV will help groom small children. When Boxer won his first starleague, Flash was eight years old -- a great age to find a rolemodel. Most Koreans live in a huge city that can easily support team houses and the country has gigantic industries that are already setup for sponsoring pro teams. Actually yeah, a considerable amount of foreigners ARE lazy. Plenty of them say they only play 3-4 hours a day, compared to the general 8-12 of the Koreans. Plenty of Koreans don't practice as much as they should too though. The top foreigners practice hard, and calling foreigners lazy is insulting to them. It doesn't do the mid-low tier foreigners any good either, as it sets expectations artificially low. I said a considerable amount of foreigners are lazy. I know Idra and Naniwa practice alot, and thats why they are sucessful. And no, not all Koreans practice very hard. Guess where you will find most of them? In Code B. I gurantee you the top 64 Koreans (code A and S) practice way more on average than the top 64 foreigners. First of all you have no real data to support this stupid stereotype. Second, if you're measuring effort by hours spent practicing, a lot of this can be explained by the lack of foreign team houses. And the answer to the lack of team houses isn't just "go build a team house", it requires significant investment by the team, the sponsors, and the players, often much much more than is required for a Korean team house. Koreans can just rent out an apartment in Seoul and house a dozen or so players easily. Most teams have A team and B team players and are constantly shuffling them around. SlayerS for example holds qualifier tournaments for random dudes to get scouted. EG is one of the few foreign teams with a house but they're not going to get a big turnout if they hold random qualifier tournaments in Arizona. It's not even clear they can support a bunch of B team players who aren't all expected to give results and big showings. What I'm saying is that the infrastructure difference is so incomparably in favor of the Koreans that it's completely stupid to generalize EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD EXCEPT KOREA and call them lazy. Err, do you really want me to link each individual foreigner talking about how much they play? And most Korean game houses require you to practice a lot if you want to stay in it, and considering everyone (or 99% that is) in Code A/S is on a team... And no, I'm not saying go build a team house. I think it's a terrific idea, but hard to manage. We all know Custom with teammates>ladder, but I'd still argue 8 hours of ladder>3 hours of ladder. And they're plenty of foreigners who could easily make that jump, but they are either lazy or don't want to make the game their primary form of income. That's what I mean by lazy. I don't think if every foreigner started practicing like mad we'd close the gap completely, obviously we would need teamhouses/support for that, but I certainly think we could close the gap considerably.
Uh, 99% of most Korean teams are NOT Code A/Code S. Most teams only have a handful of GSL players. Just look at any liquipedia page for any Korean team. Also remember that the liquipedia page doesn't even have an up to date list of all the players since the teams don't feel it necessary to update the lists with their nonamers.
If you don't even think that just grinding out hours of practice would close the skill gap, don't call foreigners lazy.
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On January 10 2012 07:59 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 07:54 Elefanto wrote:
Make the Korean ladder playable for everyone with as little latency as possible.
You'll see a huge improvement from the foreigners. Lol? NA players can play on either KR or EU, and still EU are better overall. That doesn't make sense.
From what I hear, most pros hate playing cross server due to latency.
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@fourcolo, quote isn't working.
Please read what I said.
I said everyone/99% of the people in Code A/Code S are on a team, not that 99% of the people on a team are in Code S.
Wait what? That's exactly what I said. I think if foreigners started grinding more hours of practice the skill gap would close, at least a little...
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On January 10 2012 08:05 fourColo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 07:59 1Eris1 wrote:On January 10 2012 07:54 fourColo wrote:On January 10 2012 07:44 1Eris1 wrote:On January 10 2012 07:42 fourColo wrote:On January 10 2012 07:40 1Eris1 wrote:On January 10 2012 07:39 fourColo wrote:
Foreigners aren't lazy, I hate that stupid stereotype. It's garbage and more than anything indicates the shitty school your respective country has since it failed to teach critical thinking skills.
Koreans have VAST advantages over pretty much every country. Amazing infrastructure, dense population, existing talent from BW, PC cafes, etc. Even esports broadcasted on TV will help groom small children. When Boxer won his first starleague, Flash was eight years old -- a great age to find a rolemodel. Most Koreans live in a huge city that can easily support team houses and the country has gigantic industries that are already setup for sponsoring pro teams. Actually yeah, a considerable amount of foreigners ARE lazy. Plenty of them say they only play 3-4 hours a day, compared to the general 8-12 of the Koreans. Plenty of Koreans don't practice as much as they should too though. The top foreigners practice hard, and calling foreigners lazy is insulting to them. It doesn't do the mid-low tier foreigners any good either, as it sets expectations artificially low. I said a considerable amount of foreigners are lazy. I know Idra and Naniwa practice alot, and thats why they are sucessful. And no, not all Koreans practice very hard. Guess where you will find most of them? In Code B. I gurantee you the top 64 Koreans (code A and S) practice way more on average than the top 64 foreigners. First of all you have no real data to support this stupid stereotype. Second, if you're measuring effort by hours spent practicing, a lot of this can be explained by the lack of foreign team houses. And the answer to the lack of team houses isn't just "go build a team house", it requires significant investment by the team, the sponsors, and the players, often much much more than is required for a Korean team house. Koreans can just rent out an apartment in Seoul and house a dozen or so players easily. Most teams have A team and B team players and are constantly shuffling them around. SlayerS for example holds qualifier tournaments for random dudes to get scouted. EG is one of the few foreign teams with a house but they're not going to get a big turnout if they hold random qualifier tournaments in Arizona. It's not even clear they can support a bunch of B team players who aren't all expected to give results and big showings. What I'm saying is that the infrastructure difference is so incomparably in favor of the Koreans that it's completely stupid to generalize EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD EXCEPT KOREA and call them lazy. Err, do you really want me to link each individual foreigner talking about how much they play? And most Korean game houses require you to practice a lot if you want to stay in it, and considering everyone (or 99% that is) in Code A/S is on a team... And no, I'm not saying go build a team house. I think it's a terrific idea, but hard to manage. We all know Custom with teammates>ladder, but I'd still argue 8 hours of ladder>3 hours of ladder. And they're plenty of foreigners who could easily make that jump, but they are either lazy or don't want to make the game their primary form of income. That's what I mean by lazy. I don't think if every foreigner started practicing like mad we'd close the gap completely, obviously we would need teamhouses/support for that, but I certainly think we could close the gap considerably. Uh, 99% of most Korean teams are NOT Code A/Code S. Most teams only have a handful of GSL players.
I believe his point was that 99% of the people who DO make it to Code A / Code S are on a team. I think ShinyStar is the only person that makes up the 1% of those that are not.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
Allright, so I've put all results from 2011's Premier Tournaments together, and listed them below. GSL has been excluded because of the overwhelming Korean majority.
January
No premier tournaments with both Koreans and foreigners.
February
No premier tournaments with both Koreans and foreigners.
March
IEM World Championship - Ace (Korean).
Pokerstrategy TSL3 - Thorzain (foreigner)
(GSL World Tournament - )
April
MLG Dallas - Naniwa (foreigner)
Dreamhack Stockholm Invitational - MC (Korean)
NASL Season 1 - Puma (Korean)
Copenhagen Games Spring - MC (Korean)
StarsWar Killer 6 - MC (Korean)
May
No premier tournaments with both Koreans and foreigners.
June
Dreamhack Summer - HuK (foreigner)
MLG Columbus - MMA (Korean)
July
IGN ProLeague Season 2 - WhiteRa (foreigner)
MLG Anaheim - MVP (Korean)
August
IEM Season VI Global Challenge Cologne - Puma (Korean)
MLG Raleigh - Bomber (Korean)
September
MLG Global Invitational - Naniwa (Foreigner)
NASL Season 2 - Puma (Korean)
Dreamhack Valencia - DongRaeGu (Korean)
Arena of Legends 1 - MarineKing (Korean)
October
IGN ProLeague Season 3 - Stephano (Foreigner)
IEM Season VI Global Challenge Guangzhou - Idra (Foreigner)
IEM Season VI Global Challenge New York - DongRaeGu (Korean)
MLG Orlando - Huk (Foreigner)
Electronic Sports World Cup - Stephano (Foreigner)
Blizzcon Starcraft II Invitational - MVP (Korean)
November
MLG Providence - Leenock (Korean)
Dreamhack Winter - Hero (Korean)
December
World Cyber Games 2011 - MVP (Korean)
End Result
17 Korean wins in premier tournaments with both Koreans and foreigners in attendance. 18 if counting GSL World Championship.
9 Foreigner wins in premier tournaments with both Koreans and foreigners in attendance. 9 if counting GSL World Championship.
Out of 26 premier tournaments with both Koreans and foreigners in attendance, roughly 35% (9/26 = 0.346) were won by foreigners, and 65% were won by Koreans.
Draw your own conclusions.
+ Show Spoiler +Results will be slightly skewed because some events only featured 1-3 Koreans, but I included all of them for measure. Feel free to rage.
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EPT
