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Guys, i hate to state the obvious, but it's clearly EG.Day[9]
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On December 30 2011 06:03 Zojukanji wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 05:46 ES.Genie wrote:On December 30 2011 04:44 mountshy wrote:
It just dawned on to me why you're so anti-nationality. You're from Germany, pride caused the self-destruction of your country. No wonder. Stupidity caused Germanys self-destruction. Nice guess, but Germanys history has nothing to do with my thaughts on patriotism. Actually most Germans feel kinda proud about the countrys history since 1945 On December 30 2011 04:54 Zinjil wrote:
You're arguing that taking pride in a countryman's achievements is not a natural thing to do. Given that this occurrence is incredibly widespread in every multinational competitive event, you may have to give an actual reason why this is not a natural thing to do, since things being widespread to the point of omnipresence in human experience seems to give credence to the idea that supporting a local team is an entirely natural thing for a human being to do.
As far as logical reasons outside of shared experience or national pride, which are both rational reasons that you've ignored, I'm not sure you are going to get the answers that you want. Because its simply not natural to be proud of something you were not even a bit involved. I cant be proud if Germany wins the World Cup. I dont know Özil, Schweinsteiger(very popular German players), etc, I never met any of them and I dont share any kind of personal relationship with them. Why am I supposed to feel proud about that, but not about Messi being footballer of the year? I dont know him either, we dont have a special connection and I will also never meet him. The only thing thats different is that Schweinsteigers place of birth is a little closer to mine. Has this any meening? No, why would it? For me its the same if Messi or some German player achieves something or if YOU do. So please tell me why you think its natural to take pride in some strangers achievements.
EDIT: On December 30 2011 05:24 Packawana wrote:
Whether it is fun or not does not justify "hating" a team though. Maybe dislike them, maybe be extremely competitive with them? Sure.
But 'hating' a team for being the rivals or antagonists of your favourites isn't justified, rational or irrational. This. Wow... quoted for truth! +10000 I will never understand this strange kind of nationalism
Because they are representing your country. If you don't understand this, then i cba.
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On December 30 2011 06:10 CatNzHat wrote:
Guys, i hate to state the obvious, but it's clearly EG.Day[9]
*Crosses fingers*
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On December 30 2011 05:46 ES.Genie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 04:44 mountshy wrote:
It just dawned on to me why you're so anti-nationality. You're from Germany, pride caused the self-destruction of your country. No wonder. Stupidity caused Germanys self-destruction. Nice guess, but Germanys history has nothing to do with my thaughts on patriotism. Actually most Germans feel kinda proud about the countrys history since 1945 Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 04:54 Zinjil wrote:
You're arguing that taking pride in a countryman's achievements is not a natural thing to do. Given that this occurrence is incredibly widespread in every multinational competitive event, you may have to give an actual reason why this is not a natural thing to do, since things being widespread to the point of omnipresence in human experience seems to give credence to the idea that supporting a local team is an entirely natural thing for a human being to do.
As far as logical reasons outside of shared experience or national pride, which are both rational reasons that you've ignored, I'm not sure you are going to get the answers that you want. Because its simply not natural to be proud of something you were not even a bit involved. I cant be proud if Germany wins the World Cup. I dont know Özil, Schweinsteiger(very popular German players), etc, I never met any of them and I dont share any kind of personal relationship with them. Why am I supposed to feel proud about that, but not about Messi being footballer of the year? I dont know him either, we dont have a special connection and I will also never meet him. The only thing thats different is that Schweinsteigers place of birth is a little closer to mine. Has this any meening? No, why would it? For me its the same if Messi or some German player achieves something or if YOU do. So please tell me why you think its natural to take pride in some strangers achievements.
natural and logical are different things. Things being natural are decided mostly by their prevalence in human experience, and taking pride in a countryman's achievements is incredibly common, and is so because humans, as social animals, are quite fond of creating tribes of like-minded or similar-looking members, where each person benefits from the achievements of a single person, whether they contributed directly or not. This has evolved today into attending a local sport stadium, where you pay for a ticket, food, drinks, memorabilia, and whatnot, and in doing so you support the players and the management of the team by providing some small part of their salary with each purchase, and each fan wearing the local colors filling the seats makes the players more excited to play and tends to make them perform better than if they were playing to an empty stadium. Some teams are supported by cities, or states, or even nations, and even at that scale the taxes a person pays and the viewership statistics do the same thing as sitting in the stands and wearing the local colors, if even less personal. This is about the most logical way I can explain having pride in the accomplishments of strangers, the person watching contributed to their success, either monetarily or with their support. If you don't think support helps people play, ask boxer about his motivation in front of korean crowds vs foreign crowds in sc2.
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On December 30 2011 06:03 WalkofLife wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 05:57 Snowen wrote:On December 30 2011 05:24 Packawana wrote:On December 30 2011 05:06 Durp wrote:
Okay this has been getting ridiculous. Allow me to explain why people root for their local team.
It's because when the team representing your area (high school, city, country, Not-Korea...) competes, everyone in your area is rooting for something together. I'll use an example from the NFL (we call it football in the U.S.... I only mention it because clearly you have some problem with Americans). I live in Baltimore. Here we have football team called the Ravens. The Baltimore Ravens run huge charity events all throughout Baltimore. They involve themselves in the community. One of our players, when he left the city to play in Arizona, bought an ad to thank everyone in Baltimore: (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baltimore-sports-blog/bal-sportsblitz-todd-heap-baltimore-sun-ad1028,0,6603865.story)
Oh yeah, and they're good. They've gone to the playoffs (analogous to getting 1st or 2nd in the group in the World Cup) for the past 3 years and they've made it again this year.
Because of all this, the whole city backs the team. Every year that they make the playoffs, Baltimore has something called a "Purple Friday", where everyone wears purple (the team colors) in support of the Ravens. It's fun
The Ravens have a rival, too. Their called the Pittsburgh Steelers, and they're tough. Their star player was suspended 4 games last season for rape. Everybody here hates them. Oh yeah, and did I mention that they've knocked us out of the playoffs 2 of the last 3 seasons? So when the Ravens and the Steelers played in Pittsburgh for control of the division everybody watched. Even my mom tuned in (she really hates sports). The Ravens won the game with 35 seconds left to beat the Pittsbursh Steelers. My whole neighborhood lit up. People were running outside to congratulate each other. We hadn't really done anything at all, but the feeling a human gets when they stand with countless others is incredible. It makes the lows worth it.
In short, sports are fun because you root with a ton of other people who live with you. There is no rational explanation, but there doesn't need to be. It's just fun, and that's all that matters.
Edited for random capitalization mistakes.. Whether it is fun or not does not justify "hating" a team though. Maybe dislike them, maybe be extremely competitive with them? Sure. But 'hating' a team for being the rivals or antagonists of your favourites isn't justified, rational or irrational. Of course its rational. They may be the team stopping YOUR team from reaching that goal, and some people take sports/games very seriously. If you stop my favorite NFL team from reaching the superbowl, you caused me lots of pain and sadness. That is grounds for hatred right there, if you are very emotionally invested in a team and it happens repeatedly (for instance, all the IdrA fans upset about him always losing to Protosses in his early days, developed a hate for the whole Protoss race because it stopped IdrA from winning tournaments) Now when things happen ontop of that, underhanded things, you begin to go from disliking them because they are good, to hating them for the things they do. In the NFL, many division rival games have lots of underhanded, downright illegal things happening within the games (least for the heated rivals) - like the example of the Ravens and Steelers as Durp wrote, I am sure there is TONS of sucker punches, spitting, biting, etc going on within the piles. Both teams are known to be borderline dirty teams, and that gets ramped up x10 when they play eachother. My favorite team is in a division where the main rival did a celebration on our team's logo last year, taking pictures and faking "pissing" on the logo in our own stadium. Things like that turn a competitive "dislike" into pure hate. Sure, not every team has things like that happen, and not every sport, but it happens. Hey! The Ravens are not a dirty team. It's all the Steelers!  Also: Is there anything inherently wrong with hating a team? The burden of proof is on you here. Prove that hate is bad for no reason other than that it is hate. Hate can be the catalyst for a lot of evil, but in this situation it just isn't. There's kid at my school who just moved from Pittsburgh. On Purple Fridays he wears a Steelers jersey. People make fun of him for it, but it never goes any farther than light-hearted "Squeelers" puns. In this case the only thing that the hate is doing is intensifying the happiness that comes along with a win. There is nothing wrong with that.
If he ever wore the division rival jersey in other parts of the country, he would probably get stabbed. Imagine if a Giants or Cowboys fan wore their jersey on Eagles Pride-ish days.. better have 911 on his cell's speed dial.
Theres different degrees of hate obviously; there's hate from your team losing to another team, a respectable form where you hate to lose, but you respect the opponent being better on that day. Then there is a level of hate where you honestly would be HAPPY if the other team's star player got injured or something, because you dont respect them and could care less about their well-being and figure they deserve it. Maybe thats a bit extreme for most people, especially people who are not into sports with heated division rivals, but it can develop, and is a quite common feeling to die-hard sports fans.
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On December 30 2011 00:59 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 00:55 ES.Genie wrote:On December 30 2011 00:49 Malaz wrote:
Marco Reuss has been absolutely amazing to watch this Bundesliga season and if he leaves Gladbach at the end of this season I hope he will join Dortmund and not Bayern as I'm an fan of 1860 and hate Bayern and will always cheer against them.
This is so damn stupid, I dont even know what to say. How can you hate a football club? Has Bayern insulted your mother or what is the reason behind your hate? Hate is a big word, please dont use it in such ridiculous ways. Any sport need this kind of relations people have with the teams. You hate one and you love one, that's healthy for the game.
I hate the Lakers and the Yankees... So?
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On December 30 2011 06:18 Snowen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 06:03 WalkofLife wrote:On December 30 2011 05:57 Snowen wrote:On December 30 2011 05:24 Packawana wrote:On December 30 2011 05:06 Durp wrote:
Okay this has been getting ridiculous. Allow me to explain why people root for their local team.
It's because when the team representing your area (high school, city, country, Not-Korea...) competes, everyone in your area is rooting for something together. I'll use an example from the NFL (we call it football in the U.S.... I only mention it because clearly you have some problem with Americans). I live in Baltimore. Here we have football team called the Ravens. The Baltimore Ravens run huge charity events all throughout Baltimore. They involve themselves in the community. One of our players, when he left the city to play in Arizona, bought an ad to thank everyone in Baltimore: (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baltimore-sports-blog/bal-sportsblitz-todd-heap-baltimore-sun-ad1028,0,6603865.story)
Oh yeah, and they're good. They've gone to the playoffs (analogous to getting 1st or 2nd in the group in the World Cup) for the past 3 years and they've made it again this year.
Because of all this, the whole city backs the team. Every year that they make the playoffs, Baltimore has something called a "Purple Friday", where everyone wears purple (the team colors) in support of the Ravens. It's fun
The Ravens have a rival, too. Their called the Pittsburgh Steelers, and they're tough. Their star player was suspended 4 games last season for rape. Everybody here hates them. Oh yeah, and did I mention that they've knocked us out of the playoffs 2 of the last 3 seasons? So when the Ravens and the Steelers played in Pittsburgh for control of the division everybody watched. Even my mom tuned in (she really hates sports). The Ravens won the game with 35 seconds left to beat the Pittsbursh Steelers. My whole neighborhood lit up. People were running outside to congratulate each other. We hadn't really done anything at all, but the feeling a human gets when they stand with countless others is incredible. It makes the lows worth it.
In short, sports are fun because you root with a ton of other people who live with you. There is no rational explanation, but there doesn't need to be. It's just fun, and that's all that matters.
Edited for random capitalization mistakes.. Whether it is fun or not does not justify "hating" a team though. Maybe dislike them, maybe be extremely competitive with them? Sure. But 'hating' a team for being the rivals or antagonists of your favourites isn't justified, rational or irrational. Of course its rational. They may be the team stopping YOUR team from reaching that goal, and some people take sports/games very seriously. If you stop my favorite NFL team from reaching the superbowl, you caused me lots of pain and sadness. That is grounds for hatred right there, if you are very emotionally invested in a team and it happens repeatedly (for instance, all the IdrA fans upset about him always losing to Protosses in his early days, developed a hate for the whole Protoss race because it stopped IdrA from winning tournaments) Now when things happen ontop of that, underhanded things, you begin to go from disliking them because they are good, to hating them for the things they do. In the NFL, many division rival games have lots of underhanded, downright illegal things happening within the games (least for the heated rivals) - like the example of the Ravens and Steelers as Durp wrote, I am sure there is TONS of sucker punches, spitting, biting, etc going on within the piles. Both teams are known to be borderline dirty teams, and that gets ramped up x10 when they play eachother. My favorite team is in a division where the main rival did a celebration on our team's logo last year, taking pictures and faking "pissing" on the logo in our own stadium. Things like that turn a competitive "dislike" into pure hate. Sure, not every team has things like that happen, and not every sport, but it happens. Hey! The Ravens are not a dirty team. It's all the Steelers! Also: Is there anything inherently wrong with hating a team? The burden of proof is on you here. Prove that hate is bad for no reason other than that it is hate. Hate can be the catalyst for a lot of evil, but in this situation it just isn't. There's kid at my school who just moved from Pittsburgh. On Purple Fridays he wears a Steelers jersey. People make fun of him for it, but it never goes any farther than light-hearted "Squeelers" puns. In this case the only thing that the hate is doing is intensifying the happiness that comes along with a win. There is nothing wrong with that. If he ever wore the division rival jersey in other parts of the country, he would probably get stabbed. Imagine if a Giants or Cowboys fan wore their jersey on Eagles Pride-ish days.. better have 911 on his cell's speed dial. Theres different degrees of hate obviously; there's hate from your team losing to another team, a respectable form where you hate to lose, but you respect the opponent being better on that day. Then there is a level of hate where you honestly would be HAPPY if the other team's star player got injured or something, because you dont respect them and could care less about their well-being and figure they deserve it. Maybe thats a bit extreme for most people, especially people who are not into sports with heated division rivals, but it can develop, and is a quite common feeling to die-hard sports fans.
Stabbed? Yeesh. I think once it gets to that level its more about crazy fans than heated rivalries.
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On December 30 2011 05:57 Snowen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 05:24 Packawana wrote:On December 30 2011 05:06 Durp wrote:
Okay this has been getting ridiculous. Allow me to explain why people root for their local team.
It's because when the team representing your area (high school, city, country, Not-Korea...) competes, everyone in your area is rooting for something together. I'll use an example from the NFL (we call it football in the U.S.... I only mention it because clearly you have some problem with Americans). I live in Baltimore. Here we have football team called the Ravens. The Baltimore Ravens run huge charity events all throughout Baltimore. They involve themselves in the community. One of our players, when he left the city to play in Arizona, bought an ad to thank everyone in Baltimore: (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baltimore-sports-blog/bal-sportsblitz-todd-heap-baltimore-sun-ad1028,0,6603865.story)
Oh yeah, and they're good. They've gone to the playoffs (analogous to getting 1st or 2nd in the group in the World Cup) for the past 3 years and they've made it again this year.
Because of all this, the whole city backs the team. Every year that they make the playoffs, Baltimore has something called a "Purple Friday", where everyone wears purple (the team colors) in support of the Ravens. It's fun
The Ravens have a rival, too. Their called the Pittsburgh Steelers, and they're tough. Their star player was suspended 4 games last season for rape. Everybody here hates them. Oh yeah, and did I mention that they've knocked us out of the playoffs 2 of the last 3 seasons? So when the Ravens and the Steelers played in Pittsburgh for control of the division everybody watched. Even my mom tuned in (she really hates sports). The Ravens won the game with 35 seconds left to beat the Pittsbursh Steelers. My whole neighborhood lit up. People were running outside to congratulate each other. We hadn't really done anything at all, but the feeling a human gets when they stand with countless others is incredible. It makes the lows worth it.
In short, sports are fun because you root with a ton of other people who live with you. There is no rational explanation, but there doesn't need to be. It's just fun, and that's all that matters.
Edited for random capitalization mistakes.. Whether it is fun or not does not justify "hating" a team though. Maybe dislike them, maybe be extremely competitive with them? Sure. But 'hating' a team for being the rivals or antagonists of your favourites isn't justified, rational or irrational. Of course its rational. They may be the team stopping YOUR team from reaching that goal, and some people take sports/games very seriously. If you stop my favorite NFL team from reaching the superbowl, you caused me lots of pain and sadness. That is grounds for hatred right there, if you are very emotionally invested in a team and it happens repeatedly (for instance, all the IdrA fans upset about him always losing to Protosses in his early days, developed a hate for the whole Protoss race because it stopped IdrA from winning tournaments) Now when things happen ontop of that, underhanded things, you begin to go from disliking them because they are good, to hating them for the things they do. In the NFL, many division rival games have lots of underhanded, downright illegal things happening within the games (least for the heated rivals) - like the example of the Ravens and Steelers as Durp wrote, I am sure there is TONS of sucker punches, spitting, biting, etc going on within the piles. Both teams are known to be borderline dirty teams, and that gets ramped up x10 when they play eachother. My favorite team is in a division where the main rival did a celebration on our team's logo last year, taking pictures and faking "pissing" on the logo in our own stadium. Things like that turn a competitive "dislike" into pure hate. Sure, not every team has things like that happen, and not every sport, but it happens.
Thats all reasonable and all. I support my local football/soccer club since being like 8 yo or younger and fans of this team has many beefs with fans of other teams. Do I hate those fans/teams? No. Dislike 'enemy' team sure. And I am talking about situations to the certain extend, where ppl were beat to the death even, bcs they support diff team.
But I dont get why ppl use word 'hate', dislike sure, but hate is so strong word, are we 10 years old?
I dont like certain players, lets say Naniwa, but I dont hate him at all.
Teams have rivals and compete in different leagues/tournaments, but after all, foreign teams 'playing to the same goal' which is legitimate e-sport in the west.
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So, back to the subject : when will the new player be announced ?
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On December 30 2011 06:08 WalkofLife wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 06:03 Zojukanji wrote:On December 30 2011 05:46 ES.Genie wrote:On December 30 2011 04:44 mountshy wrote:
It just dawned on to me why you're so anti-nationality. You're from Germany, pride caused the self-destruction of your country. No wonder. Stupidity caused Germanys self-destruction. Nice guess, but Germanys history has nothing to do with my thaughts on patriotism. Actually most Germans feel kinda proud about the countrys history since 1945 On December 30 2011 04:54 Zinjil wrote:
You're arguing that taking pride in a countryman's achievements is not a natural thing to do. Given that this occurrence is incredibly widespread in every multinational competitive event, you may have to give an actual reason why this is not a natural thing to do, since things being widespread to the point of omnipresence in human experience seems to give credence to the idea that supporting a local team is an entirely natural thing for a human being to do.
As far as logical reasons outside of shared experience or national pride, which are both rational reasons that you've ignored, I'm not sure you are going to get the answers that you want. Because its simply not natural to be proud of something you were not even a bit involved. I cant be proud if Germany wins the World Cup. I dont know Özil, Schweinsteiger(very popular German players), etc, I never met any of them and I dont share any kind of personal relationship with them. Why am I supposed to feel proud about that, but not about Messi being footballer of the year? I dont know him either, we dont have a special connection and I will also never meet him. The only thing thats different is that Schweinsteigers place of birth is a little closer to mine. Has this any meening? No, why would it? For me its the same if Messi or some German player achieves something or if YOU do. So please tell me why you think its natural to take pride in some strangers achievements.
EDIT: On December 30 2011 05:24 Packawana wrote:
Whether it is fun or not does not justify "hating" a team though. Maybe dislike them, maybe be extremely competitive with them? Sure.
But 'hating' a team for being the rivals or antagonists of your favourites isn't justified, rational or irrational. This. Wow... quoted for truth! +10000 I will never understand this strange kind of nationalism I actually completely agree with this. Nationalism is essentially a form of racism. Generally it's promoted by the leaders of a country to fuel military sign-ups and things of that nature. The one thing I've taken issue with in this thread is that the idea of supporting one team because of where they come from has to be "rational". I don't think it does.
You can look at Nationalism as a form of racism, if you really stretch it.. but Nationalism also can just mean being proud of your country. Proud that you are representing your country and there is no where else you would rather be, not saying other countries are garbage but your country is your favorite. I feel that way with Canada; very proud to be Canadian, and being Canadian goes beyond simple race. We have one of the largest racial-diversity in the world, and that's what makes me proud. Being Canadian is more than skin colour or accents or language to me, its the type of person.
With that being said; I root for HuK because he represents my country, and while hes not my absolute favorite player I still feel a connection when he wins major events like Dreamhack. Its the same pride I get knowing Grrrr is the only non-korean to win an MSL/OSL. Its just a good feeling connection, even if its logic is stretched as clearly I have little affiliation with either of them (well I was on the same team as Grrrr at different time periods, but I digress)
If you had two similar players, one being from your country and the other is not; 9 times out of 10 you will root for the one from your country. (unless another aspect sticks out that you connect with on a more personal level than National pride, such as if one played your race and the other played Terran) - but even then, People with strong National Pride will has a natural pull to root for their country to do well; its what makes the Olympics so great.
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On December 30 2011 06:32 SkullZ9 wrote:
So, back to the subject : when will the new player be announced ?
You are joking right? If you read the OP at all Friday december 30'th in a big picture :o.
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On December 30 2011 06:32 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 06:32 SkullZ9 wrote:
So, back to the subject : when will the new player be announced ?
You are joking right? If you read the OP at all Friday december 30'th in a big picture :o.
I think he was just trying to get people from the slump of intellect. Back on topic please!
I'm super pumped, and I'm fairly sure it's an asian WC3 player.
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On December 30 2011 06:32 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 06:32 SkullZ9 wrote:
So, back to the subject : when will the new player be announced ?
You are joking right? If you read the OP at all Friday december 30'th in a big picture :o.
well it is friday the 30th on TL
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On December 30 2011 06:21 monXikk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 05:57 Snowen wrote:On December 30 2011 05:24 Packawana wrote:On December 30 2011 05:06 Durp wrote:
Okay this has been getting ridiculous. Allow me to explain why people root for their local team.
It's because when the team representing your area (high school, city, country, Not-Korea...) competes, everyone in your area is rooting for something together. I'll use an example from the NFL (we call it football in the U.S.... I only mention it because clearly you have some problem with Americans). I live in Baltimore. Here we have football team called the Ravens. The Baltimore Ravens run huge charity events all throughout Baltimore. They involve themselves in the community. One of our players, when he left the city to play in Arizona, bought an ad to thank everyone in Baltimore: (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baltimore-sports-blog/bal-sportsblitz-todd-heap-baltimore-sun-ad1028,0,6603865.story)
Oh yeah, and they're good. They've gone to the playoffs (analogous to getting 1st or 2nd in the group in the World Cup) for the past 3 years and they've made it again this year.
Because of all this, the whole city backs the team. Every year that they make the playoffs, Baltimore has something called a "Purple Friday", where everyone wears purple (the team colors) in support of the Ravens. It's fun
The Ravens have a rival, too. Their called the Pittsburgh Steelers, and they're tough. Their star player was suspended 4 games last season for rape. Everybody here hates them. Oh yeah, and did I mention that they've knocked us out of the playoffs 2 of the last 3 seasons? So when the Ravens and the Steelers played in Pittsburgh for control of the division everybody watched. Even my mom tuned in (she really hates sports). The Ravens won the game with 35 seconds left to beat the Pittsbursh Steelers. My whole neighborhood lit up. People were running outside to congratulate each other. We hadn't really done anything at all, but the feeling a human gets when they stand with countless others is incredible. It makes the lows worth it.
In short, sports are fun because you root with a ton of other people who live with you. There is no rational explanation, but there doesn't need to be. It's just fun, and that's all that matters.
Edited for random capitalization mistakes.. Whether it is fun or not does not justify "hating" a team though. Maybe dislike them, maybe be extremely competitive with them? Sure. But 'hating' a team for being the rivals or antagonists of your favourites isn't justified, rational or irrational. Of course its rational. They may be the team stopping YOUR team from reaching that goal, and some people take sports/games very seriously. If you stop my favorite NFL team from reaching the superbowl, you caused me lots of pain and sadness. That is grounds for hatred right there, if you are very emotionally invested in a team and it happens repeatedly (for instance, all the IdrA fans upset about him always losing to Protosses in his early days, developed a hate for the whole Protoss race because it stopped IdrA from winning tournaments) Now when things happen ontop of that, underhanded things, you begin to go from disliking them because they are good, to hating them for the things they do. In the NFL, many division rival games have lots of underhanded, downright illegal things happening within the games (least for the heated rivals) - like the example of the Ravens and Steelers as Durp wrote, I am sure there is TONS of sucker punches, spitting, biting, etc going on within the piles. Both teams are known to be borderline dirty teams, and that gets ramped up x10 when they play eachother. My favorite team is in a division where the main rival did a celebration on our team's logo last year, taking pictures and faking "pissing" on the logo in our own stadium. Things like that turn a competitive "dislike" into pure hate. Sure, not every team has things like that happen, and not every sport, but it happens. Thats all reasonable and all. I support my local football/soccer club since being like 8 yo or less and fans of this team has many beefs with fans of other teams. Do I hate those fans/teams? No. Dislike 'enemy' team sure. And I am talking about situations to the certain extend, where ppl were beat to the death even, bcs they support diff team. But I dont get why ppl use word 'hate', dislike sure, but hate its so strong word, are we 10 years old? I dont like certain players, lets say Naniwa, but I dont hate him at all. Teams have rivals and compete in different leagues/tournaments, but after all, foreign teams 'playing to the same goal' which is legitimate e-sport in the west.
I dont think e-sports is that fanatic yet to where there is a large number of legitimate "hate", as in really hoping for bad things to happen to anyone. Not to say "incidents" havent happened in the past (like HovZ fighting some kid at WCG was it? lol although thats not really esports, more like bw immaturity)
I dont think we'll have any instances where people physically fight at an event or too many more of the "F You"s within games for a long time. Its just not good for the development of our sport and for Sponsors to take us seriously if it happens.
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On December 30 2011 00:31 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 23:40 Sphen5117 wrote:On December 29 2011 23:32 integrity wrote:
well personally i like eg current roster a well balance of high caliber players(idra,huk,puma) mid teir (demuslim,machine,incontrol) and up incomers (axslav, strifeco, LZgamer)
i hope that they don't throw away their up incomers division to go around buying high caliber players. it would be one less opportunity for the NA up incomers Be careful saying that here. A couple pages back, an incredibly informed, polite, reasonable, and intelligent individual said it's only worth it to teams like EG to buy Tournament-dominating players. Basically saying that the best move for an ESPORTS team is to adopt a philosophy that stifles ESPORTS. Huurrr.. big teams are businesses. eg, and other high tier teams, cant pay bad players significant money while continuing to put out the salaries necessary to attract good players. good players are the ones who bring in viewership and thus sponsorships, to both the team and to tournaments. without those sponsorships ESPORTS ceases to exist. foreign sc2 isnt set up for a full on team house structure like korea is simply because of geography and foreign players' lack of dedication, so the expenses of allowing an upcoming player to focus only on practice arent worth it. you have to pay their entire cost of living and theres a pretty good chance you're never gonna make anything significant off them. most people dont end up being that good. in korea this is acceptable because you can just stick them in an existing team house for very low cost and kick them out when you realize they suck. the one player of every 10 who has some success in tournaments justifies this, and the 1 in every 100 who becomes a star makes the industry successful. so foreign esports has to focus on the existing stars, or buy them from korea, and hope that low level non korean teams stumble upon a talented player and do enough to let him make it once in a while.
So why hasn't incontrol been kicked yet?
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They'll probably announce it somewhere between 9 and 11 AM PST (I think that's when they announced the Huk signing) so that puts it about 19-21 hours from now
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On December 30 2011 06:32 Snowen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 06:08 WalkofLife wrote:On December 30 2011 06:03 Zojukanji wrote:On December 30 2011 05:46 ES.Genie wrote:On December 30 2011 04:44 mountshy wrote:
It just dawned on to me why you're so anti-nationality. You're from Germany, pride caused the self-destruction of your country. No wonder. Stupidity caused Germanys self-destruction. Nice guess, but Germanys history has nothing to do with my thaughts on patriotism. Actually most Germans feel kinda proud about the countrys history since 1945 On December 30 2011 04:54 Zinjil wrote:
You're arguing that taking pride in a countryman's achievements is not a natural thing to do. Given that this occurrence is incredibly widespread in every multinational competitive event, you may have to give an actual reason why this is not a natural thing to do, since things being widespread to the point of omnipresence in human experience seems to give credence to the idea that supporting a local team is an entirely natural thing for a human being to do.
As far as logical reasons outside of shared experience or national pride, which are both rational reasons that you've ignored, I'm not sure you are going to get the answers that you want. Because its simply not natural to be proud of something you were not even a bit involved. I cant be proud if Germany wins the World Cup. I dont know Özil, Schweinsteiger(very popular German players), etc, I never met any of them and I dont share any kind of personal relationship with them. Why am I supposed to feel proud about that, but not about Messi being footballer of the year? I dont know him either, we dont have a special connection and I will also never meet him. The only thing thats different is that Schweinsteigers place of birth is a little closer to mine. Has this any meening? No, why would it? For me its the same if Messi or some German player achieves something or if YOU do. So please tell me why you think its natural to take pride in some strangers achievements.
EDIT: On December 30 2011 05:24 Packawana wrote:
Whether it is fun or not does not justify "hating" a team though. Maybe dislike them, maybe be extremely competitive with them? Sure.
But 'hating' a team for being the rivals or antagonists of your favourites isn't justified, rational or irrational. This. Wow... quoted for truth! +10000 I will never understand this strange kind of nationalism I actually completely agree with this. Nationalism is essentially a form of racism. Generally it's promoted by the leaders of a country to fuel military sign-ups and things of that nature. The one thing I've taken issue with in this thread is that the idea of supporting one team because of where they come from has to be "rational". I don't think it does. You can look at Nationalism as a form of racism, if you really stretch it.. but Nationalism also can just mean being proud of your country. Proud that you are representing your country and there is no where else you would rather be, not saying other countries are garbage but your country is your favorite. I feel that way with Canada; very proud to be Canadian, and being Canadian goes beyond simple race. We have one of the largest racial-diversity in the world, and that's what makes me proud. Being Canadian is more than skin colour or accents or language to me, its the type of person. With that being said; I root for HuK because he represents my country, and while hes not my absolute favorite player I still feel a connection when he wins major events like Dreamhack. Its the same pride I get knowing Grrrr is the only non-korean to win an MSL/OSL. Its just a good feeling connection, even if its logic is stretched as clearly I have little affiliation with either of them (well I was on the same team as Grrrr at different time periods, but I digress) If you had two similar players, one being from your country and the other is not; 9 times out of 10 you will root for the one from your country. (unless another aspect sticks out that you connect with on a more personal level than National pride, such as if one played your race and the other played Terran) - but even then, People with strong National Pride will has a natural pull to root for their country to do well; its what makes the Olympics so great.
That's a completely valid point. I might have bit of a backlash towards nationalism just because of how fiercely it is promoted here in the US of A. I'm actually half-Canadian, and sometimes I find myself rooting for Canada instead of the USA just because I'm pretty sick of how much patriotism is celebrated here.
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On December 30 2011 06:32 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 06:32 SkullZ9 wrote:
So, back to the subject : when will the new player be announced ?
You are joking right? If you read the OP at all Friday december 30'th in a big picture :o.
Yeah but we are december 30th ^^
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On December 30 2011 06:53 Ryrmidon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 00:31 IdrA wrote:On December 29 2011 23:40 Sphen5117 wrote:On December 29 2011 23:32 integrity wrote:
well personally i like eg current roster a well balance of high caliber players(idra,huk,puma) mid teir (demuslim,machine,incontrol) and up incomers (axslav, strifeco, LZgamer)
i hope that they don't throw away their up incomers division to go around buying high caliber players. it would be one less opportunity for the NA up incomers Be careful saying that here. A couple pages back, an incredibly informed, polite, reasonable, and intelligent individual said it's only worth it to teams like EG to buy Tournament-dominating players. Basically saying that the best move for an ESPORTS team is to adopt a philosophy that stifles ESPORTS. Huurrr.. big teams are businesses. eg, and other high tier teams, cant pay bad players significant money while continuing to put out the salaries necessary to attract good players. good players are the ones who bring in viewership and thus sponsorships, to both the team and to tournaments. without those sponsorships ESPORTS ceases to exist. foreign sc2 isnt set up for a full on team house structure like korea is simply because of geography and foreign players' lack of dedication, so the expenses of allowing an upcoming player to focus only on practice arent worth it. you have to pay their entire cost of living and theres a pretty good chance you're never gonna make anything significant off them. most people dont end up being that good. in korea this is acceptable because you can just stick them in an existing team house for very low cost and kick them out when you realize they suck. the one player of every 10 who has some success in tournaments justifies this, and the 1 in every 100 who becomes a star makes the industry successful. so foreign esports has to focus on the existing stars, or buy them from korea, and hope that low level non korean teams stumble upon a talented player and do enough to let him make it once in a while. So why hasn't incontrol been kicked yet?
Its been explained many times and if you thought about it would know why incontrol will probably never be kicked from EG. He has a good fan base (and a good share of haters) but he is very popular. He brings lots of attention to EG as love him or hate him he gets a lot of viewers when he streams, almost everyone knows who he is whether he's a good player or not doesn't matter.
I don't really see EG kicking any of their current team members unless they are planning to retire or they do something really bad. I do wonder though is lzgamer still on EG? Haven't like heard anything about him in awhile.
On December 30 2011 06:56 SkullZ9 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 06:32 blade55555 wrote:On December 30 2011 06:32 SkullZ9 wrote:
So, back to the subject : when will the new player be announced ?
You are joking right? If you read the OP at all Friday december 30'th in a big picture :o. Yeah but we are december 30th ^^
On korean time. But when an American organization says December 30'th its obviously US time 
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On December 30 2011 06:57 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 06:53 Ryrmidon wrote:On December 30 2011 00:31 IdrA wrote:On December 29 2011 23:40 Sphen5117 wrote:On December 29 2011 23:32 integrity wrote:
well personally i like eg current roster a well balance of high caliber players(idra,huk,puma) mid teir (demuslim,machine,incontrol) and up incomers (axslav, strifeco, LZgamer)
i hope that they don't throw away their up incomers division to go around buying high caliber players. it would be one less opportunity for the NA up incomers Be careful saying that here. A couple pages back, an incredibly informed, polite, reasonable, and intelligent individual said it's only worth it to teams like EG to buy Tournament-dominating players. Basically saying that the best move for an ESPORTS team is to adopt a philosophy that stifles ESPORTS. Huurrr.. big teams are businesses. eg, and other high tier teams, cant pay bad players significant money while continuing to put out the salaries necessary to attract good players. good players are the ones who bring in viewership and thus sponsorships, to both the team and to tournaments. without those sponsorships ESPORTS ceases to exist. foreign sc2 isnt set up for a full on team house structure like korea is simply because of geography and foreign players' lack of dedication, so the expenses of allowing an upcoming player to focus only on practice arent worth it. you have to pay their entire cost of living and theres a pretty good chance you're never gonna make anything significant off them. most people dont end up being that good. in korea this is acceptable because you can just stick them in an existing team house for very low cost and kick them out when you realize they suck. the one player of every 10 who has some success in tournaments justifies this, and the 1 in every 100 who becomes a star makes the industry successful. so foreign esports has to focus on the existing stars, or buy them from korea, and hope that low level non korean teams stumble upon a talented player and do enough to let him make it once in a while. So why hasn't incontrol been kicked yet? Its been explained many times and if you thought about it would know why incontrol will probably never be kicked from EG. He has a good fan base (and a good share of haters) but he is very popular. He brings lots of attention to EG as love him or hate him he gets a lot of viewers when he streams, almost everyone knows who he is whether he's a good player or not doesn't matter. I don't really see EG kicking any of their current team members unless they are planning to retire or they do something really bad. I do wonder though is lzgamer still on EG? Haven't like heard anything about him in awhile. Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 06:56 SkullZ9 wrote:On December 30 2011 06:32 blade55555 wrote:On December 30 2011 06:32 SkullZ9 wrote:
So, back to the subject : when will the new player be announced ?
You are joking right? If you read the OP at all Friday december 30'th in a big picture :o. Yeah but we are december 30th ^^ On korean time. But when an American organization says December 30'th its obviously US time
yep, he is, but he doesn't live in the eg-house, that's probably why you don^t hear that much about lz. But I think he streams a lot
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EPT
