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The Hero Unit obsession by blizzard? - Page 9

Forum Index > SC2 General
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briandawkins
Profile Joined October 2010
United States19 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-24 05:13:28
December 24 2011 05:06 GMT
#161
They are not at all like WC3 heroes. Anyone who thinks they fill the same or even a similar role does not understand WC3.

Also, the question mark in the subject is dumb.
power-overwhelming
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada306 Posts
December 24 2011 05:08 GMT
#162
I wonder if the OP would make this thread if Zerg had a hero unit.

Anyways Mothership is not even that viable. If it comes to the late game two players of even skill will always have better econ than protoss, let alone have hard counters for deathballs.
Bobster
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany3075 Posts
December 24 2011 05:12 GMT
#163
I'm really sad the mothership gets taken out of the game. Seeing Kiwikaki use it at the highest levels wis as a fucking joy.


Always fun to watch.
PanN
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States2828 Posts
December 24 2011 05:18 GMT
#164
On December 24 2011 14:08 power-overwhelming wrote:
I wonder if the OP would make this thread if Zerg had a hero unit.

Anyways Mothership is not even that viable. If it comes to the late game two players of even skill will always have better econ than protoss, let alone have hard counters for deathballs.


Except you're 100% wrong in saying that the mothership isn't viable. It's an AMAZING unit.
We have multiple brackets generated in advance. Relax . (Kennigit) I just simply do not understand how it can be the time to play can be 22nd at 9:30 pm PST / midnight the 23rd at the same time. (GGzerg)
dhe95
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1213 Posts
December 24 2011 05:24 GMT
#165
I think that hero units should not exist because it's so easy to focus them down, rendering them useless and never built in a game (unless you're kiwikaki), and if blizzard wants them to be used in games, they will have to make them so overpowered that the risk of building this huge giant target is worth it.

But this has nothing to do with the fact that only one race has one.
castled
Profile Joined March 2011
United States322 Posts
December 24 2011 05:30 GMT
#166
Hero units only work when the game is really built around them, like in WC3. There is no place for them in Starcraft.
Daralii
Profile Joined March 2010
United States16991 Posts
December 24 2011 05:44 GMT
#167
I think it's mostly just Browder's C&C roots showing through.
Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth!
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
December 24 2011 06:25 GMT
#168
Mothership is by no means a hero unit. Its a simple support unit, that fills the weaknesses of the protoss army lategame. Just because you only can get one doesn't make it a hero unit, its just a balancing issue with the spells. The bw arbiter was pretty much the same, what i liked the most on them, sneak one arbiter in, recall an arbiter+ army recall more army and more arbiter, congrats we have warpgate research in bw. Just an example on how evil more then one arbiter was.

And if someone doesn't understand that a support unit that adds to the army will be one of the first targets and has to be protected (same goes for guardian shield sentries by the way), will never have success with it. While a Hero unit can defend itself and also fight off enemy masses. I don't know i have not seen a Mothership beat up an 100 supply terran army.

That being said it is sad that the mothership doesn't represent the last 8 supply of every toss lategame army, but if you see the ms float directly above the toss army directly after it was build, you really understand why those people don't build a mothership more often.

though i don't think its the reason why they remove it, they want to get toss away from the deathball, and the mothership was build to go against the weaknesses of the deathball so you could make the deathball better. Also fungal only decloaks for 4 seconds, which could be another reason.
I don't really understand why everyone dislikes the protoss deathball, it was obvious that protoss would be designed on having an unstoppable army, since thats how they worked in bw, but i think blizzard did a to good job at getting rid of their weaknesses. Warpgate just allows a toss to reinforce their deathball, while a good zerg in bw always made sure to cut of reinforcements.
It was something well liked in bw, so i guess it got blizzard a bit off-guard to see all the hate towards it. So atm they try to slowly change the protoss strength, which will most likely destroy the beauty of what zvp was in bw. Though since zerg can go into a deathball themself that is stronger then the protoss deathball without the mothership, it must have been really frustrating for the balance team. I bet they scream every lategame get a damn mothership to force the zerg to split their army more XD.
So in heart of the swarm they will replace the mothership with a fighting unit that will take care of what the mothership already does perfectly, but with something that does damage, so people can see what its supposed to do.

It's sad to see sc2 be destroyed by the people that want to change the game instead of finding an solution, because its faster that way. Atleast i have faith in Blizzard to still make a good game despite them having to change stuff, because most people just refuse it and thats only because it can't be 1a clicked.

Anyway if i ever see a hero unit in sc2 multiplayer, i will come back to this thread and talk about it. The single player had a few hero units, the viking, and our small cave adventure team hehe, and soon kerrigan. And of course i will "present it" to everyone and present it ... present it .......

And the op would have a bigger chance if the poll would look a bit more serious, but probably would look different.
Nizzy
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States839 Posts
December 24 2011 06:28 GMT
#169
On December 24 2011 14:30 castled wrote:
Hero units only work when the game is really built around them, like in WC3. There is no place for them in Starcraft.


Please don't bring WC3 talk in here.

WC3 failed. Heros were supposed to support armies. Auras giving 10%, 20%, 30% plus or neg abilities. In addition to nuke skills/stuns that helped your armies get in better positions both physical positions or damage/HP positions.

However instead the game got so abusive it was Armies supporting Stacked Heros + healing scrolls every game.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
December 24 2011 06:30 GMT
#170
Heroes ruined WC3 and made balance almost impossible. I'm glad we have as little "hero'ness" in SC2 as we do. It just doesn't work.
Kuja
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States1759 Posts
December 24 2011 06:46 GMT
#171
Its completely balanced, it makes it so toss has a way to deal with broodlord infester late game. Without it toss would just auto lose if the game went on long enough.
“Who's to say that my light is better than your darkness? Who's to say death is better than your darkness? Who am I to say?”
Erik.TheRed
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1655 Posts
December 24 2011 06:46 GMT
#172
BEWARE

double down thor is coming... and he's got a score to settle.

aka

THE RISE OF GOODY
"See you space cowboy"
DjRetro
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Chile309 Posts
December 24 2011 06:47 GMT
#173
I wouldn't consider the "massive thor" and "mothership" as heroes itself but rather as unique powerful unit... also, they haven't special passive skills/spells that do some significative difference to your troops/army to win battles like in WC3 was.

Massive units in sc2 are fine imho.

SpaceSynth-ItaloDisco-HiNRG http://www.radiostaddenhaag.com/
Geovu
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Estonia1344 Posts
December 24 2011 06:53 GMT
#174
On December 24 2011 15:46 Erik.TheRed wrote:
BEWARE

double down thor is coming... and he's got a score to settle.

aka

THE RISE OF GOODY

More like The Return of the 1 base SCV all in.
tWR
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada138 Posts
December 24 2011 06:57 GMT
#175
I think this reminds me of Warcraft 3 to much, how they all had hero units, I like the idea of it being army against army. Not an army led by this hero unit, I thought I was leading the units!

perhaps thats why I don't like the idea of a hero unit, and think that they could do well with buildings that had the functions of the hero unit, like how they supposed the nexus have recall for 75 energy, that reminded me of the shield battery from Brood War.
AlecPyron
Profile Joined May 2010
United States131 Posts
December 24 2011 06:59 GMT
#176
They are more alike to C&C ultimate units or Dawn of War unique units than War 3 heroes. Dunno why compare it to War 3 just because they are both from the same company. Now I don't care if they make a race having an ultimate unit a race feature, it's perfect feasible. Now the competence to balance it is what's matter in the end. It's may not worthy the trouble to try get this race feature to work in SC2.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
December 24 2011 07:17 GMT
#177
As long as the game is balanced with the unit, then it's fine. But usually hero units make it fairly difficult to balance.

Also from a design perspective it really looks bad when only one race has access to a "hero" unit.
liftlift > tsm
peekn
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1152 Posts
December 24 2011 07:28 GMT
#178
I never really liked the idea of a hero unit at all in the SC universe. I mean they are ok in warcraft but I don't really like that game anyways... I think that they just wanted to put them in there so when people are obsing they can be like "omg moooootheeerrrshiiiippppppp" when it spawns.
Cattlecruiser
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States340 Posts
December 24 2011 07:38 GMT
#179
It sounds like mostly QQing, especially the way you phrase the poll... Vortex is the only way for protoss to do any significant splash damage to late game broodlord ball. Kind of the reason they are taking the mothership out and putting in the tempest in HOTS. I also would like to see the singularity of the unit be removed and replaced with more numerous but less powerful units, but it's neat how Blizzard is trying new things.
ZiegFeld
Profile Joined April 2011
351 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-24 07:48:17
December 24 2011 07:47 GMT
#180
As badly written as OP's post is, he has a point.

Where the hell are the hero units for Terran and Zerg?

Or remove Mothership entirely and offer each race another mass-able high tier unit.

And yeah. Motherships are effing ridiculous. They aren't overpowered, but definitely offer Protoss a considerable edge in the late game.
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