EPTThe Hero Unit obsession by blizzard? - Page 10
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
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AlmightyJoker
United States48 Posts
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Darkstar_X
United States197 Posts
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Rumpus
United States136 Posts
If they do really want "Uber units" to be in this game and work as intended they have to stop half-assing the whole idea. How is this even considered a reasonable addition or change to the game when A) Absolutely no one finds them intriguing or "casual catering" and B) Only one race at a time is getting one! By that logic you're trying to cater to a group of once non-Starcraft interested gamers BUT only a third of them (given all the races are played equally). This logic is a complete and utter failure and an incredibly huge debacle that they've put themselves into. I don't really like to be critical of Blizzard because their track record in the long term is phenomenal. But this is just pathetic, it is clear they care little for this game or its continued success. | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
That said, the Mothership is not imbalanced. Without it, Protoss would be completely unable to engage the Infestor Broodlord deathball. What's stupid is the game design that makes Zerg seriously struggle to compete with a standard Protoss deathball until they get Infestor Broodlord (or go Mutas), makes it impossible for Protoss to compete with the Infestor Broodlord deathball until they get the Mothership, and then be able to annihilate the entire expensive slow-building Zerg deathball in a heartbeat without losing anything. What's even worse is that now Zergs are figuring out ways to counter the Vortex, which of course will lead to ANOTHER flop over to Zerg killing the entire Protoss army in a heartbeat, and then presumably Protoss players will figure out how to counter the counter of the counter... To put it simply, the entire situation is ridiculous. Battles shouldn't be decided by gimmicks, nor should they HAVE to be decided by gimmicks. Hero units are a reason that the entire gimmick situation exists in the first place. | ||
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Humanfails
224 Posts
On December 24 2011 12:31 Big J wrote: Tank vs tank in broodwar, muta vs muta in broodwar... bio is useless vs protoss in broodwar, carriers and bcs are useless vs zerg, dark archons are useless vs terran... Just a bunch of crap in your post. Colossus is in the game because the reaver is broken vs bio. Low tier units kind of sucked (and not even that is really true...) because you couldnt control them properly. It's not even funny to argue against such a post as it is just wrong in everything it tells... muta vs muta wasnt because of devourer. carriers and BCs were perfectly fine vs zerg, if zerg goes for dark swarm, you just move back. Don't go mass BC and expect that to work. They are giant ships that do damage and soak lots of damage, but they work better mixed with actual support units. dark archons maelstrom bio and keep it in place for storm, like how fungal + bane KINDA beats terran bio in this game. Reaver wasn't broken. 125 damage after upgrade and it still had weaknesses. Colossus is broken, not reaver was. Colossus Fires very fast and at 15 damage opposed to 125, kills so much more zerg units compared to reaver that its stupid. You didn't play much brood war? cause I played 10 years of it. On December 24 2011 12:43 Goldfish wrote: How is it BS? Few things: 1. Why no units removed from Terran but from only Zerg and Protoss. Dustin Browder already stated he thought Terran had too much stuff. 2. If they wanted a hero unit, why not just keep the Mothership but remove/revamp Vortex? (Only issue with Vortex is the Archon Toilet still works.) They are already redesigning certain existing units in HotS (Hydralisk gets speed upgrade off creep, Banes can move underground, and of course the Thor is redesigned). Why not just revamp the Mothership a little if they wanted a hero unit? 3. You doubt that based on? In WoW you keep things like pets from every CE (and achievement too but as feats of strength). While yes, it's an MMO, it does show Blizzard doesn't want to make people mad. In SC2 it's assumed you'll keep achievements/portraits too (there is no reason to think not since it's integrated with battle.net rather than SC2 WoL alone). The flag that determines whether you get the CE Thor is based on players having that CE Feats of Strength Achievement. 4. Finally if they remove CE Thor for HotS, this will discourage people from buying the HotS CE version (which will likely because there has been a CE for every WoW expansion and for Diablo III too). How will they entice people to buy the CE version if they don't get the stuff carried over? If you take into account SC, D2, and WC3, the expansion will make the original deserted/obsolete (few people play WC3 RoC for example). Also I don't confirm that as a fact (Blizzard keeping the Thor only for CE) but just my speculation. Not only are they not removing terran units, they're adding more. Consider this; they cross bred the firebat and vulture for a unit that moves fast, costs no gas (unlike the firebat), and does lots of splash AoE vs light. This increases versatility, yes? droppable harass, fast harass and run, good AoE vs light in full attacks. Medivacs take the medic and dropship and wed it to create a drop harass that is unprecedented in power compared to brood war. Not only that but if you manage to kill the marines, most of the time the medivac (healer PLUS dropship) gets away to save terran cost, unlike dropping medics and marines, ro using medics durting an attack. Then terran got mule calldown as well. And then dustin comes out and says "Yes, terran has too much versatility" when the huge problem of marines continued to be brought up, not just by casual players and Bnet forum warriors, but by pros as well, people who make money from playing. And his response was "Too much versatility as of now". DB, you explicitly designed terran to be more versatile than it was in brood war. Do you think before you create a product? Or do you do things because "they're cool" and hope for the best? On December 24 2011 17:09 Rumpus wrote: Haven't you guys heard? Blizzard's new marketing philosophy is quantity over quality. A very Activision style mentality. If they do really want "Uber units" to be in this game and work as intended they have to stop half-assing the whole idea. How is this even considered a reasonable addition or change to the game when A) Absolutely no one finds them intriguing or "casual catering" and B) Only one race at a time is getting one! By that logic you're trying to cater to a group of once non-Starcraft interested gamers BUT only a third of them (given all the races are played equally). This logic is a complete and utter failure and an incredibly huge debacle that they've put themselves into. I don't really like to be critical of Blizzard because their track record in the long term is phenomenal. But this is just pathetic, it is clear they care little for this game or its continued success. They're not introducing any changes that are explicitly for HotS. Not just new units, but change to existing units. They're holding you from these changes until paying money for them. This is activision policy and marketing technique down to the letter. Blizzard was good, I still have original warcraft and warcraft 2 CDs that I can load up in DOSbox and have a blast. I don't even have the battle.net version of WC2, thats how old my WC2 is. I got SC, and it was great, a lot of thought was put into it to make it a unique and well rounded strategy game. A lot of people are saying that the expansion to starcraft was designed to fix flaws in the original game, and I take issue with that, mostly because the medic was overkill for terran bio, and zerg had no AoE vs bio other than plague. they introduced the medic, to buff terran, and they introduced the lurker to counter the fact that terran got buffed. This is clearly an Addition design and not a Fix design. Not even that, At the time of releasing it, Blizzard, as it originally was, did not even hint at an expansion for SC. All of the sudden, Activision "acquires" blizzard, fires a lot of the original workers, puts DB in charge, is a company solely responsible for splitting the Modern warfare series into 3 separate games, even though the hacks worked on day 1 of MW3's release, proving they had doing nothing to the game up new maps and guns, and charged full price for it, and then releases SC2 while also stating they're releasing two additional "expansions" for the game for new units and gameplay. They announce beforehand that it's a multi-part game that will cost you multi-part dollars. What is this really? Blizzard doesn't exist in the old sense anymore, it is a name brand now and a subsidiary of a large corporation. The interest of large money making corporations are; keep them paying, keep them coming back for more, draw out the seller/consumer relationship as long as possible, by any means necessary. Anyone who's researched or personally experience credit card debt should understand this business model. On the subject of control, Imagine going into a store and everything is bolted down, because you, the customer who buys from them, are not trusted, but thieves regularly break in and steal these bolted down goods with ease and are never caught. Blizzard requires that tournaments taking place get license from Blizzard. Even places that have gotten licensed have had their internet shut down by blizzard via IP or site ban, due to Blizzard forcing customers to log on and play. This also ensures that you must pay 60 dollars, and if you want to play with other people at all, whether over the internet or (over the internet again) in a house lan or a small tournament, you have to have an account that bnet approves of, completely opposite of the Spawn Installs the original blizzard explicitly put on Sc1 to allow people to play with friends, etc. meanwhile, the thieves who crack and create illegal SC2 copies get away with it completely free. restrictions only degrade the experience of legitimate customers. Why do customers opt to allow their experience to be degraded to such a degree because of a very small percentage of copyright infringers? I feel people shouldn't buy HoTS until all the long standing issues are addressed. That would give activision a choice, a complete loss, or going the extra mile to give customers what they want. they would get to look good and salvage their game. | ||
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Manex
Australia156 Posts
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HaXXspetten
Sweden15718 Posts
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Coolhwip
Sweden1381 Posts
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SnipedSoul
Canada2158 Posts
Leave hero units for games like WC3 imo. | ||
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
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Vei
United States2845 Posts
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FreeZe sc2
United Kingdom121 Posts
On December 24 2011 08:36 ZAiNs wrote: It seems like you just want to vent because you lost to a Mothership... I agree it does seem that | ||
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Incidious
14 Posts
While I do see where people are coming from, I find it essential to not compare races in the fashion of "these have hero units, and these don't". That might seem intuitive at first, but this comparison completely ignores ALL complex interactions and abilities that all races are given. This means that while Terran will have the only "Hero" unit in HotS (as far as we know), Protoss has the ability to recall back to their base (which was btw an ability of their current Hero unit), and zerg units in general have more complex functions. Other abilities are distributed as well. Even if you don't care for balance, you must realize that if you remove the Hero unit, other complex mechanics given to other races must go as well, because balance DOES ultimately hinge these together. Blizzard could have been a bit smarter about it since the beginning, but overall I don't think they did wrong as far as putting the mothership, or the future thor into the game. | ||
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firehand101
Australia3152 Posts
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shadymmj
1906 Posts
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B.I.G.
3251 Posts
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Seohce
United Kingdom394 Posts
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Lorch
Germany3674 Posts
On December 24 2011 17:02 AlmightyJoker wrote: you guys act like buying 3 games is soooo bad. for brood war you bought 2 and you all would have gladly bought another one. this is the exact same thing, +1. and hero units do have places in RTS, although i do not think they should be in sc2 at all. SC2 is about careful calculations and knowing exactly whats going on, and heroes add that bit of unpredictability that just doesn't fit right. No it's not. Vanilla Starcraft 1 is pretty much what SC2 WoL + HOTS + Fucking void will be, they simply split the game in three parts to maximize profits. I'm not even bitching about that, it' just how it is. OT: Hero units are just stupid, I really don't care about any other RTS, but imo they have totally no place in starcraft. The only thing I'm happy about is that protoss is done with their hero unit, just kinda sucks that if they follow this pattern zerg will get theirs last and forever (if void is the final expansion). | ||
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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
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