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MLG statement on Providence Code S spot - Page 9

Forum Index > SC2 General
1158 CommentsPost a Reply
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sirachman
Profile Joined April 2011
United States270 Posts
December 15 2011 20:52 GMT
#161
Bow down to your Korean overlords!!

(Or you could, you know, be upset possibly???)
Ansinjunger
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2451 Posts
December 15 2011 20:53 GMT
#162
On December 16 2011 05:25 hypercube wrote:
MLG's saying: "Do whatever you want with your own tournament but don't expect us to cover for you."

Professionalism is nice but transparency is even nicer.


Hey, someone actually gets it.

This (the OP) is just another PR post with everyone attempting to cover their asses. Naniwa's apology, GOM's "statement," and now MLG's statement--it's all just damage control.

My take is that GOM overreacted because of the previous Naniwa disrespect to Nestea. Now, GOM has to "stand by their decision" or risk appearing weak, as they did when Jinro dropped the F bomb in group selections awhile back.

Naniwa apologized "in his own words" because someone probably told him to. Sure, he may feel some contrition, but it's like apologizing for hitting your sister...adults made you say "sorry."

And now MLG is just washing its hands of the whole thing, and they probably weren't dirty anyways.

I think Doa's post was the fairest one I've seen on the whole mess, by shedding light on both Naniwa and GOM's point of view. If anything's true, all sides need to practice greater patience and understanding of each other.

And where that fails (at best, mutual understanding is not easily accomplished), players like Naniwa need to keep a cool head and realize that life isn't fair. You can shoot yourself in the foot to try to prove a point, but you still suffer the most as a result.
lightsentry
Profile Joined May 2011
413 Posts
December 15 2011 20:53 GMT
#163
On December 16 2011 05:51 Brett wrote:
So do people STILL accept that GOM is completely blameless in this situation? Do you STILL beleive that they are infallible?


I don't believe that anything is infallible, but yeah I still have my opinion that GOM isn't wrong and what they did was fine.
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-15 21:06:08
December 15 2011 20:53 GMT
#164
On December 16 2011 05:47 m0ck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2011 05:44 figq wrote:
There was a similar (most likely unintentional) bait and switch involved around the Coca accident - namely, at the time of playing, the tournament was in re-negotiating their terms with GOM, and so even the monthly finals of it were not yet confirmed to grant any Code A spot at all again (as has been widely assumed and erroneously spread around).

I just find it to be a funny coincidence that in both cases we have a tournament that is publicly assumed to grant a certain GSL slot, that after the accident turns out to not be the case actually. But still, it's just that, a funny coincidence. (and I'm seriously not sarcastic, I just find it amusing)

Does ESV no longer give out a code A spot? I never even heard of this. As a result of the Coca-incident? Do you have a link?
NOT as a result of Coca's incident. And I don't know how the negotiations went (maybe they are still ongoing). BUT yes, Mr. Chae's first statement after the accident included clarification that they have been in negotiations for awhile already, about how and if they will continue the Code A granted slot. So even that particular monthly final has not yet been confirmed to grant such slot, at the time that match was played.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285580&currentpage=4#76
Again, these negotiations were already taking place before that match, and are not the result of it.
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
4of8
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany256 Posts
December 15 2011 20:53 GMT
#165
I thought I couldn't be more dissapointed. Only a few days ago I was a big supporter of what I thought was the most professional SC2-League and now I am regretting I paid such ... even money. Punishing a player for one stupid action, which wasn't even against the rules. Even saying he is not a 'progamer' and now this, changing rules without telling anyone not even their partners. GOM you just earned the title of the worst esport organisation, you should be proud!
Trsjnica
Profile Joined April 2011
United States477 Posts
December 15 2011 20:53 GMT
#166
On December 16 2011 05:51 Brett wrote:
So do people STILL accept that GOM is completely blameless in this situation? Do you STILL beleive that they are infallible?

No one ever believed GOM was infallible, and that was never the discussion.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
December 15 2011 20:53 GMT
#167
On December 16 2011 05:51 Longshank wrote:
I'd really like to hear what GOM has to say about this. Post on gomtv.net.

i wouldnt expect that there will be anymore releases. mlg and gom's internal dispute (if any, but it appears mlg is not pleased with gom at the moment) will be kept internal. they have made their press releases, they are done.
SpinmovE
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada119 Posts
December 15 2011 20:54 GMT
#168
On December 16 2011 05:42 magnaflow wrote:
Soon enough we will no longer see Koreans participating in foreign events and we will be right back to BW. Koreans are going to isolate themselves again with shit like this happening.

The way most of this community has been shitting on GOM I could really see them saying fuck it to any type of exchange program.

By the end of 2012 SC2 will be non-existant in foreign lands, just like BW was.



If anything I would expect the exact opposite of that to happen. SC2 is HUGE outside of Korea, but inside of Korea it has had trouble catching up to BW and is still nowhere near as popular. I would venture to guess that if they tried to shut themselves off from the rest of the SC2 community that it would their scene that died.

SC2 is too big outside of Korea for it to fade away in one year, no fucking way that could happen.
SnoLys
Profile Joined August 2011
149 Posts
December 15 2011 20:55 GMT
#169
On December 16 2011 05:26 Trsjnica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2011 05:07 zeru wrote:
So basically MLG Providence code S prize was an unintentional bait and switch, made by GOM? wtf.

Bait and switches are illegal, in the US at least i think. This is not ok by GOM.

Uhh, bait and switch? What did they bait Naniwa to do? Are you suggesting he wouldn't have played MLG Providence if he knew that he couldn't win a Code S spot in it?

Nothing that occurred here is illegal, btw.


Maybe not him, but what about the other players that attended Providence? They thought that there was a Code S on the line.

That Code S spot for some Korean players is one of the major incentives to go to MLG.

Keen dropped to Code A and decides to attend his first MLG after that, Providence.
Losira dropped to Code A and went to Providence after. Losira only attended one MLG before Providence, when he was invited.

Sublimexx
Profile Joined December 2011
Great Britain23 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-15 20:55:53
December 15 2011 20:55 GMT
#170
GOM is the one starting to look unprofessional. Inc apology post.
"If you are a fan GREAT I want to hear that, if you aren't a fan why would I care that you say that specifically? In fact I care less..right?" - The always classy, iNcontroL
Jugan
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1566 Posts
December 15 2011 20:55 GMT
#171
From my perspective, they're basically punishing naniwa for what he did during the Blizzard Cup - which is what everyone assumed as well. Seeing the intense negative reaction to it, they decided to spin a story that naniwa's loss of a code S spot was not due to a punishment, but due to some mysterious reason. So it seems like they were trying to avoid bad PR from the foreign community, when instead they made it worse.

That's my take on it anyway.
Even a Savior couldn't fix all problems. www.twitch.tv/xJugan
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
December 15 2011 20:56 GMT
#172
On December 16 2011 05:52 Treemonkeys wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2011 05:50 dAPhREAk wrote:
On December 16 2011 05:47 Treemonkeys wrote:
On December 16 2011 05:40 dAPhREAk wrote:
On December 16 2011 05:35 Treemonkeys wrote:
On December 16 2011 05:29 IPA wrote:
I have stood by GOM during the Naniwa situation because I think he got what he deserved. This is something else entirely though. Troubling, to say the least. I have GOM clarifies soon.


Same here, I would rather them just say they revoked the code S spot due to his conduct than say he never had it. But the real question is wtf happened between MLG and GOM? Seems quite odd that MLG is willing to say that they didn't know about it but it's within their rights to do it. Shouldn't they be really upset with this? Why aren't they? In the very least it must have been a verbal agreement? If there was a contract involved then wouldn't it be within MLG's rights to take action against GOM? Was there no contract or do Korean contracts just not work like that? Maybe MLG feels so dependent on getting GSL players they don't want to say anything else?

I would like to know what the actual terms of agreement were originally that caused MLG to promise this stuff.

i doubt these huge organizations are going to let you look at their proprietary business agreements. MLG said they didn't violate the agreement and their opinion really is the only one that matters since they are the only ones that can enforce the agreement.


Details are not required, but they really aren't saying anything. They certainly aren't saying the agreement for GSL code S spots was legally binding, quite the opposite. So I think we need to know WHY it was within GSLs rights to do it.

Did they promise it over drinks and it was just a bullshit verbal agreement?

Was MLG already aware that it was not 100% for sure and didn't convey this?

Did they actually sign a contract but it's not legally binding because of Korean law?

Did GSL blatantly break a contract but MLG doesn't want to upset them?

Promising a code S spot, and then saying it's within their right after the fact that it has been revoked, is also a problem on MLGs side. A big problem. They are promising stuff that they already knew could be changed without their knowledge, I don't see what else we can get from their statement without more information.

honestly dude, its none of your business. you buy a product; that doesnt give you the right to sniff through all of mlg and gom's business affairs. i have a GE oven, but i don't expect GE to allow me to read all their contracts with manufacturers.


Of course, but I can't just blame GSL when MLG was the one who admittedly was promising things they had no control or even a legally binding agreement over.

nobody ever gets full information. you'll just have to form your opinions based on imperfect information. mlg said that they didn't know because GOM didn't tell them, and that GOM was within its rights under the contract.
seabass
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada15 Posts
December 15 2011 20:56 GMT
#173
On December 16 2011 05:53 4of8 wrote:
Even saying he is not a 'progamer'


That was already explained to be a mistranslation by a third-party, which had nothing to do with GOM and was apologized for. I honestly get not wading through the ~90% shitty posts but when you respout misinformation you're only making it worse.
Vicarios
Profile Joined March 2011
56 Posts
December 15 2011 20:56 GMT
#174
Do you ppl now what professional is?

It s regardless of culture or ideologies be neutral. Provide a platform for pro players to compete and.... and that's it!
If no one violates the __RULES__ keep your asses out of the active games.
At Football you can discuss with the refery, in basket not. So people paly according to the rules.
Is there a rule to not throw games away? No. Is it professional to change your prices and seeds around as u want? No.

Gom failed, and most likely because some people there couldn't get over there egos or korean pride or i don't know what. It s rediculus and people should stop mixing their personal preferences for pride, honour or some other bullshit around with a discussoin about professionalism.

No rules violated = no punishment.
schI2ler
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
129 Posts
December 15 2011 20:56 GMT
#175
On December 16 2011 05:53 dAPhREAk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2011 05:51 Longshank wrote:
I'd really like to hear what GOM has to say about this. Post on gomtv.net.

i wouldnt expect that there will be anymore releases. mlg and gom's internal dispute (if any, but it appears mlg is not pleased with gom at the moment) will be kept internal. they have made their press releases, they are done.



yeah I also HOPE nothing else is released. Let them argue, let them clear the guidelines but let them do it behind closed doors. Transparency and all that sure, but businesspartners sometimes have to talk tough, without worrying about the drama in the scenes.

If they argued openly the outcame had to be a breakup of their partnership, and I don't want that, I just want them to stand on the same level, not only MLG needs GOM for the Koreans but GOM also needs MLG for the foreigners.
"oh i'm so smatr"
Treemonkeys
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2082 Posts
December 15 2011 20:56 GMT
#176
MLG did the bait and switch. Play in our tournament get in code S, that's the deal.

Oh the they revoked it? Well it was within their right to do so, but we wish they had told us beforehand, sorry.
http://shroomspiration.blogspot.com/
omgimonfire15
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States233 Posts
December 15 2011 20:57 GMT
#177
I find it very hard to believe that this is a massive conspiracy theory. I feel as though it was simply a massive lack of communication from the GOM upper management to everyone, including some people in GOM itself.

Note that the entire format was changed before this entire incident happened. Looking at the future format, they are to award 2 S seeds, at least 2 A seeds, and 2 up and down seeds. Where would all of these seeds come from? MLG? If that were the case, I feel as though they should have informed MLG immediately. But i think GOM incorrectly assumed that MLG took notice, and MLG just didn't notice at all because the change was pretty recent and they probably assumed after getting no notice, the format would remain the same (despite the contract only being for the year 2011). I feel it was GOMS fault for not clarifying the new seed system, and MLG for not taking notice or asking.

Much ado about nothing in my opinion, and life will go on.
HappyChris
Profile Joined October 2011
1534 Posts
December 15 2011 20:57 GMT
#178
On December 16 2011 05:10 Chill wrote:
Whoops! We changed the prizes and didn't tell anyone! Sorry guys!

-_-

Edit: Of course I mean GOM.


lol so true. Im wondering if more organisation gonna do this in the future.

"Whats next I know we promise 70k dollars to the winner but we actually decide to change our mind"

GomTV calling Naniwa unprofessional and they do something much much worse. This hole insident is a pr nightmare for GomTV.

Bashnek
Profile Joined May 2011
Australia895 Posts
December 15 2011 20:57 GMT
#179
Wait... so, Nani gets removed for acting unprofessionally and being disrespectful to his opponents (Blah blah blah etc)
But then Gom fails to communicate something which should be pretty big, isnt that just tiniest bit disrespectful?

Even if we treat it as completely separate to the naniwa thing (Which it should be, and they're saying it is), its still a swift kick in the nuts to the people at MLG.
/人 ◕ ‿‿ ◕人\
Clbull
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1439 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-15 20:58:17
December 15 2011 20:57 GMT
#180
On December 16 2011 05:08 Xalorian wrote:
Do you see the irony in that?

They didn't lied and they had the right to do so, it was not against the rule. But doing it without telling anyone was seriously unprofessional.

Naniwa got punished, because he was unprofessional. But, what he did was not against the rule.

Weird, is in it?

I profousely disagree with GOMTV's actions out of this principle and the fact that objectively NaNiwa broke no rules whatsoever. I'd lie and say I have boycotted the GSL but I don't even watch it anyway because I don't want to use GOM Player and don't want to be forced to watch at 9am GMT
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