On December 16 2011 11:12 diophan wrote: Your nitpicking whether his candidacy was revoked or a guaranteed spot was revoked in a translated statement. If you're really looking at such minutiae, you'd need to understand Korean and see the original statement.
The statement was put on Gom's official website in English and the onus is on them to provide clear communication in this matter. They are accountable (at least they should be) for what they say.
We want to make clear that NaNiWa will not be banned from the GSL for his actions. We will however revoke his candidacy for a Code S seed, which means that he will have to requalify for the GSL.
So fine...say Naniwa 'never had code-s'. Why make a statement about it then? Coincidently, after his probe-rush? GOM's new rules appear to be...they can pick whoever they want for code-s. So they could have had the same press conference announcing that White-Ra would not be considered for the code-s spot...it would make as much sense.
Also, how would Naniwa re-qualify for the GSL...if he 'was never qualified'? The key is the 're' part. That's not a simple Korean-English translation issue but muddy justification on Chae's part to justify his revenge on Naniwa.
requalify for gsl: another mlg/other tournament and gsl partnership. go through qualifier (which naniwa plans to do)
naniwa probably would have made an appearance in gsl jan. if it wasn't for his behavior. change in rule makes no difference to that.
On December 16 2011 11:12 diophan wrote: Your nitpicking whether his candidacy was revoked or a guaranteed spot was revoked in a translated statement. If you're really looking at such minutiae, you'd need to understand Korean and see the original statement.
The statement was put on Gom's official website in English and the onus is on them to provide clear communication in this matter. They are accountable (at least they should be) for what they say.
We want to make clear that NaNiWa will not be banned from the GSL for his actions. We will however revoke his candidacy for a Code S seed, which means that he will have to requalify for the GSL.
So fine...say Naniwa 'never had code-s'. Why make a statement about it then? Coincidently, after his probe-rush? GOM's new rules appear to be...they can pick whoever they want for code-s. So they could have had the same press conference announcing that White-Ra would not be considered for the code-s spot...it would make as much sense.
Also, how would Naniwa re-qualify for the GSL...if he 'was never qualified'? The key is the 're' part. That's not a simple Korean-English translation issue but muddy justification on Chae's part to justify his revenge on Naniwa.
what. It clearly says they revoked his candidacy for code S, which is what he earned through doing well in tournaments recently. They revoked his candidacy because of the Blizzcup incident. He has to requalify because he was in code A before and has to get back into the GSL. Either way both of us are being really nitpicky here I feel.
So GOM interviews Naniwa in the blizzard cup pressconference video asking him about his plans. Naniwa says that money and fame is all good stuff but his focus is on the Code S. It seems to me that everyone in that room is under the impression that Naniwa is in Code S. This is just a sad couple of days for esports
On December 16 2011 10:53 lOvRyooMak wrote: Hi im a korean living in korea.. I regularly visit korean sites playxp and thisisgame for sc2
There seems to be a lot of misscommunication and confusion overseas
I dont see what the fuss is about regarding the format change To be exact the new 2012 gsl format was announced at night dec10th korean time, the night before the start of the blizzard Cup. So what if the format was changed before or after the blizzard cup? The gsl format was always changed every one or two seasons for improvement I remember seeing reactions by people here on TL - i like the new GSL Format! But i dont like the new GSTL format.. Etc
Regarding the code S seeding change... As the MLG also clearly stated it is in all gomtv's right to change seeding however they please. Why can't you see that the seeding change was meant to give international players more opportunity in the GSL? The previous seeding would give the seed to the top placed players in the mlg regardless if it were a korean or not.
Instead they decided to nominate top international players as candidates for the two seed spots, and the judges would select two probably based on various criteria. i.e personal reasons- not every player may wish to come play in korea. In this case as mentioned in gomtv's latest post sen.idra and naniwa were selected as candidates. But due to naniwa's conduct in the blizzard cup they decided to give it to sen and idra. The nominees and criteria were not announced prior to the decision because the criteria was probably not decided yet! Naniwa's misbehaviour made the decision easier for gom IMO. You have to understand that the gsl is still experimental. Gomtv knows there is room for improvement here and there and is constantly trying to change and develop their league. Making announcements before the system were solidified and decisions were made would make an even bigger confusion and possible shitstorm if it were changed everday.
Yes it would be nice if gomtv could just post here on TL and explain ever little thing that is going on what they are discussing and wanting to change. But as you might have noticed the people at gomtv are not that good at english and there can only be misinterpretations here and there. I have been to the gomtv studio many times and what you must understand is that it is quite smaller than you may think. In fact its tiny compared to competitions like mlg or dreamhack. The whole gomtv staff only number about 20people. There are only limitations to what these 20people can do at omce. They cant be everywhere answering all questions here and there and making decisions at once.
What i would really like to say is there is always a perfectly good explanation to everything.. Otherwise the korean community would have a bigger shitstorm. The last thing koreans want is something like kespa. instead of making blunt observations on misscommunication and Misinterpretations perhaps wait for a proper announcement by gom or maybe help on a better translation on korean articles before making a shitstorm out of nothing
You dont have a problem with undocumented changes? This is a huge exaggeration but imagine this.
MMA wins Blizzard Cup Everyone is happy and stuff. There is celebration. Then GOM says, well we changed the prize money before you played your match and the prize is 4 won. Im sure mma would be pissed. But as a fan I would be pissed too. Large tournaments NEED to be transparent about their rules and regulations or else they look very shady.
Here's a far better analogy:
In the last game of Blizzard Cup MMA acts like a complete douchebag and offends everyone watching the broadcast. Everyone is pissed off barring some who think he's taking a stand against the man for trying to force him to play their way when he really would rather prat around in that game because he knows he can't lose. Then GOM says, we'll give you your prize money, and fine you lots of it for acting in an unreasonable manner. I'm sure MMA would be pissed.
Yes you can say what was done to Naniwa was extreme, but the only reason anything was done was because of his behaviour, which GOM clearly found to be offensive, as did a huge amount of the Korean players and fans.
Agree with this. Naniwa's action forced GOM to react to it. It's not always about what you did, but rather how you did it. If you are demoralized and don't feel like playing another game, then at least do it in a discreet way so that it doesn't jeopardize anyone else. This is exactly the same case with Coca incident. If Coca wants to play another game vs T, then don't chat about it to make it so obvious that you are throwing a game away, instead just go ahead and sacrifice your entire army and gg, and leave yourself at least a bit of benefit of doubt.
On December 16 2011 10:54 Medrea wrote: I have one question.
If GOMTV said that Naniwa never got a Code S invite in the first place...
Why again did they release a statement saying they revoked it??
I dunno if this is a bad question.
They were considering him as the first choice for the invite.
OK.... then.
My question would be.
How do you revoke something you haven't given yet?
They revoked his candidacy.
That's quite nitpicky actually.
And yet correct. In GOM's eyes they have done nothing deceitful or against the rules. Naniwa was not guarenteed a Code S seed in GSL 2012 Jan. He was the top candidate. They have a right to remove any candidate if they feel there was a breach of professional conduct. The only problem people should have is how GOM didn't communicate with MLG or the community about how they were changing the format and exactly how that affected the Code S spot from MLG Providence. Did they mess that up? Yes. Did they do anything else to earn the ire of so many of you? I can't see it.
Actually, that last part is everything (at least for me). In fact it doesn't seem like a mere "miscommunication" from MLG's statement, but rather that they did not even bother to inform their business partner of the change of plans is what really bothers me.
I was firmly on GOM's side and was giving them the benefit of the doubt. I even purchased a yearly ticket in support of their stance against Naniwa's behavior, but because of this new revelation I've lost huge amounts of respect for them. Business ethics is a very important matter at least to me.
Naniwa has accepted the loss of Code S, and already shared his views on the whole thing with slasher.
I'm so, so tired of seeing threads relating to this. We really have run this into the ground....can we all let it go and move on? Nani did something dumb, Gom might've overreacted, ect. ect. Now it is over.
On December 16 2011 10:53 lOvRyooMak wrote: Hi im a korean living in korea.. I regularly visit korean sites playxp and thisisgame for sc2
There seems to be a lot of misscommunication and confusion overseas
I dont see what the fuss is about regarding the format change To be exact the new 2012 gsl format was announced at night dec10th korean time, the night before the start of the blizzard Cup. So what if the format was changed before or after the blizzard cup? The gsl format was always changed every one or two seasons for improvement I remember seeing reactions by people here on TL - i like the new GSL Format! But i dont like the new GSTL format.. Etc
Regarding the code S seeding change... As the MLG also clearly stated it is in all gomtv's right to change seeding however they please. Why can't you see that the seeding change was meant to give international players more opportunity in the GSL? The previous seeding would give the seed to the top placed players in the mlg regardless if it were a korean or not.
Instead they decided to nominate top international players as candidates for the two seed spots, and the judges would select two probably based on various criteria. i.e personal reasons- not every player may wish to come play in korea. In this case as mentioned in gomtv's latest post sen.idra and naniwa were selected as candidates. But due to naniwa's conduct in the blizzard cup they decided to give it to sen and idra. The nominees and criteria were not announced prior to the decision because the criteria was probably not decided yet! Naniwa's misbehaviour made the decision easier for gom IMO. You have to understand that the gsl is still experimental. Gomtv knows there is room for improvement here and there and is constantly trying to change and develop their league. Making announcements before the system were solidified and decisions were made would make an even bigger confusion and possible shitstorm if it were changed everday.
Yes it would be nice if gomtv could just post here on TL and explain ever little thing that is going on what they are discussing and wanting to change. But as you might have noticed the people at gomtv are not that good at english and there can only be misinterpretations here and there. I have been to the gomtv studio many times and what you must understand is that it is quite smaller than you may think. In fact its tiny compared to competitions like mlg or dreamhack. The whole gomtv staff only number about 20people. There are only limitations to what these 20people can do at omce. They cant be everywhere answering all questions here and there and making decisions at once.
What i would really like to say is there is always a perfectly good explanation to everything.. Otherwise the korean community would have a bigger shitstorm. The last thing koreans want is something like kespa. instead of making blunt observations on misscommunication and Misinterpretations perhaps wait for a proper announcement by gom or maybe help on a better translation on korean articles before making a shitstorm out of nothing
You dont have a problem with undocumented changes? This is a huge exaggeration but imagine this.
MMA wins Blizzard Cup Everyone is happy and stuff. There is celebration. Then GOM says, well we changed the prize money before you played your match and the prize is 4 won. Im sure mma would be pissed. But as a fan I would be pissed too. Large tournaments NEED to be transparent about their rules and regulations or else they look very shady.
Here's a far better analogy:
In the last game of Blizzard Cup MMA acts like a complete douchebag and offends everyone watching the broadcast. Everyone is pissed off barring some who think he's taking a stand against the man for trying to force him to play their way when he really would rather prat around in that game because he knows he can't lose. Then GOM says, we'll give you your prize money, and fine you lots of it for acting in an unreasonable manner. I'm sure MMA would be pissed.
Yes you can say what was done to Naniwa was extreme, but the only reason anything was done was because of his behaviour, which GOM clearly found to be offensive, as did a huge amount of the Korean players and fans.
Agree with this. Naniwa's action forced GOM to react to it. It's not always about what you did, but rather how you did it. If you are demoralized and don't feel like playing another game, then at least do it in a discreet way so that it doesn't jeopardize anyone else. This is exactly the same case with Coca incident. If Coca wants to play another game vs T, then don't chat about it to make it so obvious that you are throwing a game away, instead just go ahead and sacrifice your entire army and gg, and leave yourself at least a bit of benefit of doubt.
It makes me so sad that there are alot of ppl reasoning like you do. "We dont care what is right, wrong or dishonest as long as you hide it a little bit." It seems like the important thing to you isnt if an action is right or wrong, only how it might be perceived by large enough number of ppl.
Funny how the first time a non-korean wins the Code S seed, GOM doesn't give it to him. I can sort of understand their position about the whole professionalism, but they ruined some of the legitimacy of their invites in my eyes...and it isn't quite professional on their part.
On December 16 2011 11:22 jinorazi wrote: requalify for gsl: another mlg/other tournament and gsl partnership. go through qualifier (which naniwa plans to do)
naniwa probably would have made an appearance in gsl jan. if it wasn't for his behavior. change in rule makes no difference to that.
The critical sentence:
We will however revoke his candidacy for a Code S seed, which means that he will have to requalify for the GSL.
Let's think about this logically... 'Which means' implied dependency upon the first part of the sentence. Part 2 of the sentence doesn't exist therefore without part one.
Put another way...he wouldn't have to 'requalify for the GSL' if they did not 'revoke his candidacy for a Code S seed'.
Are we agreed so far?
The terms 'revoke' and 'requalify' clearly denote that some attainment was removed. If not code-s....what was it?
Candidacy is just a synonym for potential. Yet, if GOM was honest about about their intentions of assigning code-S to completely subjective/whimsical non-merit based criteria (unlike MLG placement) all along then they would not have used this language. Again...what if GOM had 'revoked' the candidacy of TLO? Would that make sense? Of White-Ra? According to GOM's new rules NOBODY had candidacy...it was just a big beauty pagent...completely subjective. Sen was probably chosen to appease the Tawainese ram sponsor and to spread the popularity of GOM into Tawian.
On December 16 2011 09:39 Fungal Growth wrote: Here's the thing...I don't think GOM is worried too much about losing subscribers...more so about sponsors. Guess who on of MLG's biggest sponsor is? Ericsson. Guess where Ericsson is based out of? Sweden. Do you think a a large corporation like Ericsson would want to support GOM after it has enraged so many Swedish fans? (who by my unscientific estimate are some of the most vocal about Gom's time traveling rules) If these big corporations get word that their favorite demographic is upset with their advertising platform they could very well pull the plug.
Guess the main sponsor of GSL, Sony Ericsson!
Yes, I have already E-mailed Sony Ericsson expressing my outrage as a customer that they sponsor GSL after this disrespectful scandal and I know more people are doing the same.
In this video you can see how badly the Koreans treat Naniwa. At 3:00, John the Translator gets pretty confrontive and during the rest of the clip the Koreans can be seen laughing behind Naniwa's back. The korean players seem to get very abusive and angry when Naniwa says this is just another tournament. The actual questions are very poorly formulated and John the translator is talking very queitly. Also John doesn't even bother to translate 90% of the Korean stuff being said, so the foreigners have no idea what's going on. Clearly this is what provoked this whole episode.
Oh man I really hope you are trolling. Either way wow what a terrible post.
On December 16 2011 11:35 jellyjello wrote: where is that pic of beating the dead horse when you need it
I agree. What's done is done.
Arguing about the consequence, in my opinion, is a moot point. A lot of people were offended, and Naniwa's fall from "grace" is the consequence of his offence.
I think we should move on, and hope Naniwa the best. Or don't, it's your decision.
On December 16 2011 11:23 lightsentry wrote: what. It clearly says they revoked his candidacy for code S, which is what he earned through doing well in tournaments recently. They revoked his candidacy because of the Blizzcup incident. He has to requalify because he was in code A before and has to get back into the GSL. Either way both of us are being really nitpicky here I feel.
Let me put it this way... If Naniwa had earned 'candidacy status' (a mythical intermediary achievement GOM made up to justify their punishment of Naniwa), then how did Sen earn his 'candidacy status'? (not his code-S status mind you...that is apparently different)
On December 16 2011 10:53 lOvRyooMak wrote: Hi im a korean living in korea.. I regularly visit korean sites playxp and thisisgame for sc2
There seems to be a lot of misscommunication and confusion overseas
I dont see what the fuss is about regarding the format change To be exact the new 2012 gsl format was announced at night dec10th korean time, the night before the start of the blizzard Cup. So what if the format was changed before or after the blizzard cup? The gsl format was always changed every one or two seasons for improvement I remember seeing reactions by people here on TL - i like the new GSL Format! But i dont like the new GSTL format.. Etc
Regarding the code S seeding change... As the MLG also clearly stated it is in all gomtv's right to change seeding however they please. Why can't you see that the seeding change was meant to give international players more opportunity in the GSL? The previous seeding would give the seed to the top placed players in the mlg regardless if it were a korean or not.
Instead they decided to nominate top international players as candidates for the two seed spots, and the judges would select two probably based on various criteria. i.e personal reasons- not every player may wish to come play in korea. In this case as mentioned in gomtv's latest post sen.idra and naniwa were selected as candidates. But due to naniwa's conduct in the blizzard cup they decided to give it to sen and idra. The nominees and criteria were not announced prior to the decision because the criteria was probably not decided yet! Naniwa's misbehaviour made the decision easier for gom IMO. You have to understand that the gsl is still experimental. Gomtv knows there is room for improvement here and there and is constantly trying to change and develop their league. Making announcements before the system were solidified and decisions were made would make an even bigger confusion and possible shitstorm if it were changed everday.
Yes it would be nice if gomtv could just post here on TL and explain ever little thing that is going on what they are discussing and wanting to change. But as you might have noticed the people at gomtv are not that good at english and there can only be misinterpretations here and there. I have been to the gomtv studio many times and what you must understand is that it is quite smaller than you may think. In fact its tiny compared to competitions like mlg or dreamhack. The whole gomtv staff only number about 20people. There are only limitations to what these 20people can do at omce. They cant be everywhere answering all questions here and there and making decisions at once.
What i would really like to say is there is always a perfectly good explanation to everything.. Otherwise the korean community would have a bigger shitstorm. The last thing koreans want is something like kespa. instead of making blunt observations on misscommunication and Misinterpretations perhaps wait for a proper announcement by gom or maybe help on a better translation on korean articles before making a shitstorm out of nothing
You dont have a problem with undocumented changes? This is a huge exaggeration but imagine this.
MMA wins Blizzard Cup Everyone is happy and stuff. There is celebration. Then GOM says, well we changed the prize money before you played your match and the prize is 4 won. Im sure mma would be pissed. But as a fan I would be pissed too. Large tournaments NEED to be transparent about their rules and regulations or else they look very shady.
Here's a far better analogy:
In the last game of Blizzard Cup MMA acts like a complete douchebag and offends everyone watching the broadcast. Everyone is pissed off barring some who think he's taking a stand against the man for trying to force him to play their way when he really would rather prat around in that game because he knows he can't lose. Then GOM says, we'll give you your prize money, and fine you lots of it for acting in an unreasonable manner. I'm sure MMA would be pissed.
Yes you can say what was done to Naniwa was extreme, but the only reason anything was done was because of his behaviour, which GOM clearly found to be offensive, as did a huge amount of the Korean players and fans.
This analogy is absurd. Naniwa's behaviour has got absolutely nothing to do with this. The problem is that GOM were never going to hand out a Code S spot for Providence in the first place. MLG were not aware of this and advertised it as part of the prize.
What if it had been DRG who came second and "won" the Code S spot? MLG were advertising a prize that was never going to be awarded, that is a big deal and the blame lies with GOM.
On December 16 2011 10:53 lOvRyooMak wrote: Hi im a korean living in korea.. I regularly visit korean sites playxp and thisisgame for sc2
There seems to be a lot of misscommunication and confusion overseas
I dont see what the fuss is about regarding the format change To be exact the new 2012 gsl format was announced at night dec10th korean time, the night before the start of the blizzard Cup. So what if the format was changed before or after the blizzard cup? The gsl format was always changed every one or two seasons for improvement I remember seeing reactions by people here on TL - i like the new GSL Format! But i dont like the new GSTL format.. Etc
Regarding the code S seeding change... As the MLG also clearly stated it is in all gomtv's right to change seeding however they please. Why can't you see that the seeding change was meant to give international players more opportunity in the GSL? The previous seeding would give the seed to the top placed players in the mlg regardless if it were a korean or not.
Instead they decided to nominate top international players as candidates for the two seed spots, and the judges would select two probably based on various criteria. i.e personal reasons- not every player may wish to come play in korea. In this case as mentioned in gomtv's latest post sen.idra and naniwa were selected as candidates. But due to naniwa's conduct in the blizzard cup they decided to give it to sen and idra. The nominees and criteria were not announced prior to the decision because the criteria was probably not decided yet! Naniwa's misbehaviour made the decision easier for gom IMO. You have to understand that the gsl is still experimental. Gomtv knows there is room for improvement here and there and is constantly trying to change and develop their league. Making announcements before the system were solidified and decisions were made would make an even bigger confusion and possible shitstorm if it were changed everday.
Yes it would be nice if gomtv could just post here on TL and explain ever little thing that is going on what they are discussing and wanting to change. But as you might have noticed the people at gomtv are not that good at english and there can only be misinterpretations here and there. I have been to the gomtv studio many times and what you must understand is that it is quite smaller than you may think. In fact its tiny compared to competitions like mlg or dreamhack. The whole gomtv staff only number about 20people. There are only limitations to what these 20people can do at omce. They cant be everywhere answering all questions here and there and making decisions at once.
What i would really like to say is there is always a perfectly good explanation to everything.. Otherwise the korean community would have a bigger shitstorm. The last thing koreans want is something like kespa. instead of making blunt observations on misscommunication and Misinterpretations perhaps wait for a proper announcement by gom or maybe help on a better translation on korean articles before making a shitstorm out of nothing
You dont have a problem with undocumented changes? This is a huge exaggeration but imagine this.
MMA wins Blizzard Cup Everyone is happy and stuff. There is celebration. Then GOM says, well we changed the prize money before you played your match and the prize is 4 won. Im sure mma would be pissed. But as a fan I would be pissed too. Large tournaments NEED to be transparent about their rules and regulations or else they look very shady.
Here's a far better analogy:
In the last game of Blizzard Cup MMA acts like a complete douchebag and offends everyone watching the broadcast. Everyone is pissed off barring some who think he's taking a stand against the man for trying to force him to play their way when he really would rather prat around in that game because he knows he can't lose. Then GOM says, we'll give you your prize money, and fine you lots of it for acting in an unreasonable manner. I'm sure MMA would be pissed.
Yes you can say what was done to Naniwa was extreme, but the only reason anything was done was because of his behaviour, which GOM clearly found to be offensive, as did a huge amount of the Korean players and fans.
Agree with this. Naniwa's action forced GOM to react to it. It's not always about what you did, but rather how you did it. If you are demoralized and don't feel like playing another game, then at least do it in a discreet way so that it doesn't jeopardize anyone else. This is exactly the same case with Coca incident. If Coca wants to play another game vs T, then don't chat about it to make it so obvious that you are throwing a game away, instead just go ahead and sacrifice your entire army and gg, and leave yourself at least a bit of benefit of doubt.
It makes me so sad that there are alot of ppl reasoning like you do. "We dont care what is right, wrong or dishonest as long as you hide it a little bit." It seems like the important thing to you isnt if an action is right or wrong, only how it might be perceived by large enough number of ppl.
It has nothing to do with right or wrong. It's simply about being smart and being considerate to others that are involved in the process of anything that you are doing. Life can't be always all about you.
Say I'm one of the smartest guys in the company. I like the job, but I really don't like my boss for whatever reason. He's done me no wrong and always treated me professionally and fairly, but I just can't like him. Should I go about my daily life making it obvious to everyone that I don't like my boss? No, because that would put the management in a situation where now they have to step in and deal with the issue. So, who's right or wrong in this case? All I did was expressing my feelings openly. Last I checked, this was a free country, right?
On December 16 2011 11:48 Hikko wrote: Funny how the first time a non-korean wins the Code S seed, GOM doesn't give it to him. I can sort of understand their position about the whole professionalism, but they ruined some of the legitimacy of their invites in my eyes...and it isn't quite professional on their part.
He never won a code S seed. He won a spot in the blizzardcup, which they gave to him. The code S you're talking about is a separate seed they were going to give him as one of the 2 foreigner code S seeds they had. After seeing how unprofessional he is they decided to not give it to him, he was never guaranteed a code S seed in the first place. Stop coming up with conspiracy theories GOM is not out to get foreigners, neither are they ruled by some weird lizard people that can read your mind. Just stop.
On December 16 2011 10:53 lOvRyooMak wrote: Hi im a korean living in korea.. I regularly visit korean sites playxp and thisisgame for sc2
There seems to be a lot of misscommunication and confusion overseas
I dont see what the fuss is about regarding the format change To be exact the new 2012 gsl format was announced at night dec10th korean time, the night before the start of the blizzard Cup. So what if the format was changed before or after the blizzard cup? The gsl format was always changed every one or two seasons for improvement I remember seeing reactions by people here on TL - i like the new GSL Format! But i dont like the new GSTL format.. Etc
Regarding the code S seeding change... As the MLG also clearly stated it is in all gomtv's right to change seeding however they please. Why can't you see that the seeding change was meant to give international players more opportunity in the GSL? The previous seeding would give the seed to the top placed players in the mlg regardless if it were a korean or not.
Instead they decided to nominate top international players as candidates for the two seed spots, and the judges would select two probably based on various criteria. i.e personal reasons- not every player may wish to come play in korea. In this case as mentioned in gomtv's latest post sen.idra and naniwa were selected as candidates. But due to naniwa's conduct in the blizzard cup they decided to give it to sen and idra. The nominees and criteria were not announced prior to the decision because the criteria was probably not decided yet! Naniwa's misbehaviour made the decision easier for gom IMO. You have to understand that the gsl is still experimental. Gomtv knows there is room for improvement here and there and is constantly trying to change and develop their league. Making announcements before the system were solidified and decisions were made would make an even bigger confusion and possible shitstorm if it were changed everday.
Yes it would be nice if gomtv could just post here on TL and explain ever little thing that is going on what they are discussing and wanting to change. But as you might have noticed the people at gomtv are not that good at english and there can only be misinterpretations here and there. I have been to the gomtv studio many times and what you must understand is that it is quite smaller than you may think. In fact its tiny compared to competitions like mlg or dreamhack. The whole gomtv staff only number about 20people. There are only limitations to what these 20people can do at omce. They cant be everywhere answering all questions here and there and making decisions at once.
What i would really like to say is there is always a perfectly good explanation to everything.. Otherwise the korean community would have a bigger shitstorm. The last thing koreans want is something like kespa. instead of making blunt observations on misscommunication and Misinterpretations perhaps wait for a proper announcement by gom or maybe help on a better translation on korean articles before making a shitstorm out of nothing
Please be assured that there is much ignorance and confusion on this side as well.
The biggest confusion is that it has nothing to do with Blizzard Cup.
Beginning with the MLG Pro Circuit Anaheim on July 29-31 and continuing through the 2011 season, the 1st place finisher will be placed into the GSL Code S and the 2nd, 3rd and 4th place non-Korean finishers will be placed into GSL Code A.
At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A. At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:
Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status.
What does that mean? Both MLG and GOM are promising any player that meets the given criteria to receive a Code S seed. Every competitor entering a MLG tournament after Columbus does this under the impression to receive a Code S when meeting the given criteria.
In the last week, Naniwa has rage quit of of a GSL match, flown half-way around the world, defeated the two most successful Korean Starcraft 2 players back-to-back, sparked a rivalry with Nestea, been the center of controversy in a rematch against Nestea, let a National Championship slip through his fingers and earned a seat in Code S.
What does that mean? MLG administratives as well as general western media outlets are confirming the eligibility of NaNiwa of a Code S seed through his placement in MLG Providence
It seems like a lot of people have been under the impression that NaNiWa has received a Code S seed for taking 2nd place at MLG Providence. The truth however is that NaNiWa has received the right to compete in the Blizzard Cup for his 2nd place achievement at MLG Providence.
What does that mean? A lot of people were "under the impression" because GOM never told them anything otherwise until a whole month after Providence.
Please again understand the problem has nothing to do with Blizzard Cup.
1) The problem in this thread is not whether NaNiwa gets a Code S seed or not. That is a different problem. That is the Blizzard Cup problem. Many people think GOM is right, many people think GOM is wrong. No miracle. 2) The problem in this thread is not the new format. Many people think it is really good. 3) The problem in this thread is: You change the rules of the tournament before the tournament. Never after the tournament. Never. It is not about NaNiwa. It could have been anyone else. You don't promise something first and then say "Uh no I changed my mind". When tournaments do this it is called "scam". I know the outcome would not have been any different. But it is a matter of principle. CoCa didn't really want to do something bad, but he needed punishment from principle. When you think this is right, what comes next? MLG says "1st prize is 100k." - and after the tournament "Uh no, you don't get anything".
If GOM believes NaNiwa needs a punishment, they can do that. They can take away his Code S seed. They can make an announcement saying "We believe what he did was wrong, we take away his Code S seed.". But you don't go back and change rules of tournaments that already happened.
I truly don't believe there was any real malicious intent. To be positive, I think GOM was extremely clumsy. They wanted to please everybody a little bit and it all got fucked up. Do I hate GOM suddenly- no. But this time, exactly how they did it was not right. When they want to punish NaNiwa, just say it how it is. Don't try and change rules in the past.
Say "when you do this, you get this". And not a month later "surprise! actually it is completely different than i told you"
On December 16 2011 05:36 castled wrote: Regardless of whether or not Nani "earned" a code S invite, he threw it away by disrespecting GOM, his opponent, and the viewers. I hope GOM doesn't feel pressure to reverse their decision because so many vocal posters on Teamliquid don't understand the meaning of respect.
I'm really sick of this whole controversy because no matter how many level-headed evaluations are posted, there are so many people that will never understand.
um good sir, are you kidding? So you answer one disrespect with another one? nani apologized so rather then not kick a horse when he's down the aim for the groin an change the rules thus giving them an out for doing what they did. They did it without even alerting their buisness partner(s) that they were doing it which is supereamly disrespect fult to those partners and the fans. So before you go spew what you just did you may want to also look towards them as well cause they're just far more worse for what they did in comparison to what nani did.
On December 16 2011 11:48 Hikko wrote: Funny how the first time a non-korean wins the Code S seed, GOM doesn't give it to him. I can sort of understand their position about the whole professionalism, but they ruined some of the legitimacy of their invites in my eyes...and it isn't quite professional on their part.
He never won a code S seed. He won a spot in the blizzardcup, which they gave to him. The code S you're talking about is a separate seed they were going to give him as one of the 2 foreigner code S seeds they had. After seeing how unprofessional he is they decided to not give it to him, he was never guaranteed a code S seed in the first place. Stop coming up with conspiracy theories GOM is not out to get foreigners, neither are they ruled by some weird lizard people that can read your mind. Just stop.
Except for the fact that He DID win a code S seed for GSL at MLG Providence as per MLG/GSL agreed upon, prior to the "LuLz change", which has taken place without MLG knowing. I didn't make this up, nobody made this up, it was written in black and white. There was zero mention of the Blizzard Cup seeding as a prize @ Providence, hello?
If GSL and MLG did agree on changing the code S seed to Blizz Cup and announced it publically, sure; however, the case here is that MLG has not been informed about the change until now. This, in turn, voids your argument.
Try setting the events in chronological order next time, dude.
On December 16 2011 11:48 Hikko wrote: Funny how the first time a non-korean wins the Code S seed, GOM doesn't give it to him. I can sort of understand their position about the whole professionalism, but they ruined some of the legitimacy of their invites in my eyes...and it isn't quite professional on their part.
He never won a code S seed. He won a spot in the blizzardcup, which they gave to him. The code S you're talking about is a separate seed they were going to give him as one of the 2 foreigner code S seeds they had. After seeing how unprofessional he is they decided to not give it to him, he was never guaranteed a code S seed in the first place. Stop coming up with conspiracy theories GOM is not out to get foreigners, neither are they ruled by some weird lizard people that can read your mind. Just stop.
that would be true if said Code S seed hasn't been advertised throughout the MLG tourney, or the changes been published before Providence
EPT
![[image loading]](http://img.gomtv.net/imgdata/39446.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img.gomtv.net/imgdata/39444.jpg)
