EPTMLG statement on Providence Code S spot - Page 31
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Excelle
Sweden200 Posts
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Nabes
Canada1800 Posts
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onedayclose
United States1145 Posts
G GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
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rotegirte
Germany2859 Posts
On December 16 2011 08:28 Govou wrote: woohoo let's blame GOMTV to oblivion for changing their prize. Because 8000+ comments of it wasn't enough. oh the drama queens You know, it's second to scamming. Or how else would you label "change prize after competition"? I personally believe NaNiwa deserves a punishment in whatever shape or form. If it is GOM's decision to suspend him from GSL temporarily and/or revoking his Code S spot, that's fine. Even if it only was for integrity's sake (compare CoCa). I also believe -given evidence of Korean articles prior to Blizzard Cup- that GOM is being truthful in stating that the decision not to link MLG Providence with a Code S spot couldn't possibly be related to the recent incident. However, if anything, the agreement between MLG and GOM has to be loosely formulated to allow such confusion. At the very least, it is an example of a poorly thought out business agreement / practice. Let's imagine a world where: 1) MLG assuming Providence would provide a Code S seed, thus advertising it as such 2) Someone, let's name him ActionJesuz, would place at Providence such to believe he received said Code S seed 3) GOM's decision of format change is the same, that means "No exchange program, Code S spot nomination through internal GOM jury decision" 3) NaNiwa probe rush 4) For whatever reason (i.e. some 3rd foreigner, let's name him TLO, won everything out of nowhere), NaNiwa never was a candidate for the "new Code S spot", in that case said mystery foreigner would actually be eligible for Code S nomination. I chose such a scenario to emphasize the independence of both matters. In that world, NaNiwa and the incident would be completely unrelated. He most likely would have faced public outrage and punishment regardless: much like CoCa, a temporary ban, or anything- as the severeness of punishment is a completely different matter, too. Still, there is poor ActionJesuz feeling simply robbed of his prize. There is no mincing words about it. Regarding public announcements, advertising and administrative word, at no point he could have known that the Code S spot actually could have been subject to change. Competitors went into the tournament under terms of rules and regulations that included the prize. GOM basically says "Look, ActionJesuz, the Code S spot was never really guaranteed. We agreed with MLG that we could change our mind at any given time and both of us saw it fit to not tell the players anything about it. In other news, congratulations TLO for a Code S nomination in January 2012" The important thing to take away is NaNiwa would have received a punishment nonetheless, but that doesn't make the their oversight with Providence any better | ||
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
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Apus
New Zealand74 Posts
Disgusting way of doing business, and they won't be getting any more of my business until this mess is sorted out. | ||
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Danyl
Canada90 Posts
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Fungal Growth
United States434 Posts
Found this on another TL thread and thought it was most interesting: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295033¤tpage=34#677 1. Why were the two seeds called "INTERNATIONAL SEED" and the other one "MLG PROVIDENCE CODE S SEED" on your official website (which you in stealth changed today)? 2. Why did your own twitter comment say that you revoked his Code S seed (which you also, deleted today)? 3. Why was it announced on your official partners website that Naniwa has .. earned a seat in Code S? 4. And why does it say on your official website when you announced the partner program still (not had time to change that one yet, had you?) say that: At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows: Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status. Is there any evidence of GOM's whitewashing on any archive sites like archive.org? | ||
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stratmatt
United States913 Posts
On December 16 2011 09:11 OrangeSoda wrote: So what Sundance is saying is that GOM wears the pants in the relationship between the two and MLG has no say in anything. Pretty disrespectful to MLG. Why would MLG have ANY say at all in how Gom runs thier own tournament? What could MLG possibly even hope to gain if they were to butt heads with Gom over how they decide to run thier own tournament? You really think MLG would like it if this were to happen at their event? I bet they are celebrating the fact that it didnt. | ||
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Packawana
United States1081 Posts
There was miscommunication, all parties have accepted the result (if this were not the case, then this argument would be a very different story), but since it is, let's try to move on. | ||
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Hall0wed
United States8486 Posts
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Alpino
Brazil4390 Posts
On December 16 2011 09:16 Fungal Growth wrote: Would be also interested in seeing that Chae video if somebody can find it that stated Naniwa had code-s. Found this on another TL thread and thought it was most interesting: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295033¤tpage=34#677 Is there any evidence of GOM's whitewashing on any archive sites like archive.org? You can find the quotes going back to first pages of the first threads I'd guess. At least the "revoked" tweet you can. But not the actual thing ofc. Maybe someone has a screen? | ||
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AngelusDeLetum
United States98 Posts
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
On December 16 2011 09:18 stratmatt wrote: Why would MLG have ANY say at all in how Gom runs thier own tournament? What could MLG possibly even hope to gain if they were to butt heads with Gom over how they decide to run thier own tournament? You really think MLG would like it if this were to happen at their event? I bet they are celebrating the fact that it didnt. Because MLG is the one handing out the prize and if the prize is false they will be held accountable. MLG has a reputation and their own sponsor. You dont think it damages their name to wake up and realize that the prize they handed out in their biggest tournament was fake? | ||
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xBillehx
United States1289 Posts
I do believe this was changed back when the 2012 format was announced. GOM had a pretty piss poor communication error in clarifying the seeds for the new format and notifying MLG about it. MLG, unaware that Providence seeds were changed to Blizzcup seeds went on promoting the Code S reward. On an entirely separate point, since MLG's Providence format was different than the regular pro circuit, the MLG-GSL Exchange program was inevitably changed anyway to adjust to that format. There were no pools, and Koreans were not seeded based on GSL points but rather MLG points they had to earn themselves. I believe this was in MLG's right to do, but ultimately there were no specifics about the National Finals or clauses in the event of format changes in the original announcements. However, because I feel this was MLG's right to do, adjust the exchange program based on a different format, I also feel it was GSL's right to adjust their side based on their new format as well. (MLG doesn't seem to contend that it was GSL's right to adjust placement) Shortly after MLG, it seems the Korean esports media (thisisgame) picked up on the fact that the changes might not have guaranteed a Code S spot from Providence. Unfortunately due to a language barrier, no one on the western side of esports media noticed the article or questioned the 2012 format changing seeds like thisisgame did. As a side note here, I believe this highlights a hole in the current esports journalism system where we need individuals monitoring the other side of the world to pick up on things we are not able to here. I might make a blog about this later cause it's something that's been around for a while here on TL in how we rely on volunteer translators to break stories from Korea. I don't believe the changes have anything to do with Naniwa at all because again I believe the seeding was changed (at least in GOM's mind) way before this past weekend. I believe this because Idra was notified of his seed by Gom last week, before the Naniwa situation happened, yet according to Naniwa he was never notified about a Code S seed. Considering this, I really do believe Naniwa was up for the possibility of a seed but Gom hadn't decided and thus had yet to inform him of any decision when the whole uhoh situation occurred. tl;dr: GOM made a shitty communication mistake regarding the changes and failed to tell MLG about it. (it's alright to be upset about this) MLG/GSL both adjusted the original agreements because of formats, which is well within their rights. There's a hole in esports media (usually filled by volunteer translators on TL which is not always the best idea) Naniwa having his name kicked off the Code S list for being disrespectful is irrelevant cause it seems he never had the spot guaranteed by Gom in the first place based on changes to their system. | ||
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DyEnasTy
United States3720 Posts
On December 16 2011 05:08 terranmoccasin wrote: We really need to drop this and move on. For anyone that doesn't want to support GOM, so be it. I feel like all of this drama impacts every organization and the fans negatively. The best anyone can do is to avoid situations like this altogether in the future. Let's just enjoy some SC2! This is a little bigger than the typical petty squabbles. Its not ok to support someone (GOM) that is publicly doing something wrong just because everyone wants to watch koreans. Because now GOM can get away with almost anything they want, and people still are willing to support them so they can watch koreans. | ||
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Rorschach
United States623 Posts
On December 16 2011 09:16 Fungal Growth wrote: Would be also interested in seeing that Chae video if somebody can find it that stated Naniwa had code-s. Found this on another TL thread and thought it was most interesting: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295033¤tpage=34#677 Is there any evidence of GOM's whitewashing on any archive sites like archive.org? Thank you for pulling this up (did not know). Gom has dropped the ball on this one.... | ||
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Devolved
United States2753 Posts
On December 16 2011 09:14 Fjodorov wrote: English is not my native language so can someone be kind enough to explain what this sentence means: " it is within GSL's jurisdiction to adjust placement." Specifically the "adjust placement" part. What do they mean? Naniwa placed second at mlg and they cant adjust that. Im probably being stupid and theres some legal definition to the word im not aware of, but im still curious. Basically what MLG is saying is that they have no authority over GSL Code S placement. Once the MLG tournament is over, additional GSL based prizes (such as a Code S seed) are completely out of their hands. If the GSL decides to change their prize, then that is entirely up to the GSL and MLG can not force them to change their seeding process even if it was previously agreed upon. | ||
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Packawana
United States1081 Posts
On December 16 2011 09:30 DyEnasTy wrote: This is a little bigger than the typical petty squabbles. Its not ok to support someone (GOM) that is publicly doing something wrong just because everyone wants to watch koreans. Because now GOM can get away with almost anything they want, and people still are willing to support them so they can watch koreans. If you want to hurt GOM, then don't give them your business. That's simply the only way to do it -- they won't and shouldn't care about what the public thinks unless it is hurting them significantly. You don't run a business off of public opinion at all times -- otherwise things such as health insurance or the government wouldn't exist. | ||
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Fungal Growth
United States434 Posts
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