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MLG statement on Providence Code S spot - Page 31

Forum Index > SC2 General
1158 CommentsPost a Reply
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Excelle
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden200 Posts
December 16 2011 00:09 GMT
#601
For me all this feels like: GOMTV: Oh nice, we will have many viewers tonight!, because we have a rematch Nani vs Nestea.. we will have so many viewers!!.. when Nani rush with all hes probs.. they are like.. WTH hes not doing what we want!!.. lets punish him for not give us the game of the year!.. thats how i feel about it, i dont really care if it was Nani Huk MC or someone els.. its just the way that GOM act thats make me sad!
Starcraft2
Nabes
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada1800 Posts
December 16 2011 00:11 GMT
#602
So what Sundance is saying is that GOM wears the pants in the relationship between the two and MLG has no say in anything. Pretty disrespectful to MLG.
onedayclose
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1145 Posts
December 16 2011 00:12 GMT
#603
I feel this is absolutely nothing and has been communicated incorrectly to the public. It most likely was already put in place long ago but just never announced to the public. Why!? we may never ever know. If MLG was smart they would have announced it right away rather than let a brouhaha like this go apeshit!

G GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!
rotegirte
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany2859 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-16 00:18:09
December 16 2011 00:14 GMT
#604
On December 16 2011 08:28 Govou wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2011 08:26 dacimvrl wrote:
Cold hard facts:

1. Naniwa *disrespected* the crowd for a hyped match
2. GOMTV CHANGED the prize without informing the involved parties - winner: Naniwa, partner: MLG (+ fans)

so, I guess GOMTV didn't do anything wrong, but Naniwa and MLG deserved it?????

LuLz @ D4B0 S74ND4RD5


woohoo let's blame GOMTV to oblivion for changing their prize. Because 8000+ comments of it wasn't enough.

oh the drama queens


You know, it's second to scamming. Or how else would you label "change prize after competition"?

I personally believe NaNiwa deserves a punishment in whatever shape or form. If it is GOM's decision to suspend him from GSL temporarily and/or revoking his Code S spot, that's fine. Even if it only was for integrity's sake (compare CoCa).

I also believe -given evidence of Korean articles prior to Blizzard Cup- that GOM is being truthful in stating that the decision not to link MLG Providence with a Code S spot couldn't possibly be related to the recent incident.

However, if anything, the agreement between MLG and GOM has to be loosely formulated to allow such confusion. At the very least, it is an example of a poorly thought out business agreement / practice.

Let's imagine a world where:

1) MLG assuming Providence would provide a Code S seed, thus advertising it as such
2) Someone, let's name him ActionJesuz, would place at Providence such to believe he received said Code S seed
3) GOM's decision of format change is the same, that means "No exchange program, Code S spot nomination through internal GOM jury decision"
3) NaNiwa probe rush
4) For whatever reason (i.e. some 3rd foreigner, let's name him TLO, won everything out of nowhere), NaNiwa never was a candidate for the "new Code S spot", in that case said mystery foreigner would actually be eligible for Code S nomination.

I chose such a scenario to emphasize the independence of both matters. In that world, NaNiwa and the incident would be completely unrelated. He most likely would have faced public outrage and punishment regardless: much like CoCa, a temporary ban, or anything- as the severeness of punishment is a completely different matter, too.

Still, there is poor ActionJesuz feeling simply robbed of his prize. There is no mincing words about it. Regarding public announcements, advertising and administrative word, at no point he could have known that the Code S spot actually could have been subject to change. Competitors went into the tournament under terms of rules and regulations that included the prize.

GOM basically says "Look, ActionJesuz, the Code S spot was never really guaranteed. We agreed with MLG that we could change our mind at any given time and both of us saw it fit to not tell the players anything about it. In other news, congratulations TLO for a Code S nomination in January 2012"

The important thing to take away is NaNiwa would have received a punishment nonetheless, but that doesn't make the their oversight with Providence any better
Fjodorov
Profile Joined December 2011
5007 Posts
December 16 2011 00:14 GMT
#605
English is not my native language so can someone be kind enough to explain what this sentence means: " it is within GSL's jurisdiction to adjust placement." Specifically the "adjust placement" part. What do they mean? Naniwa placed second at mlg and they cant adjust that. Im probably being stupid and theres some legal definition to the word im not aware of, but im still curious.


Apus
Profile Joined November 2010
New Zealand74 Posts
December 16 2011 00:14 GMT
#606
Gom need to right this. What they have done to punish Naniwa is far, far worse than what Naniwa did in the first place.

Disgusting way of doing business, and they won't be getting any more of my business until this mess is sorted out.
Danyl
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada90 Posts
December 16 2011 00:15 GMT
#607
Extremely unprofessional by GOM. Seriously this kind of thing is just not acceptable.
Taeja | ForGG | Jjakji
Fungal Growth
Profile Joined November 2010
United States434 Posts
December 16 2011 00:16 GMT
#608
Would be also interested in seeing that Chae video if somebody can find it that stated Naniwa had code-s.

Found this on another TL thread and thought it was most interesting: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295033&currentpage=34#677

1. Why were the two seeds called "INTERNATIONAL SEED" and the other one "MLG PROVIDENCE CODE S SEED" on your official website (which you in stealth changed today)?
2. Why did your own twitter comment say that you revoked his Code S seed (which you also, deleted today)?

3. Why was it announced on your official partners website that Naniwa has .. earned a seat in Code S?
4. And why does it say on your official website when you announced the partner program still (not had time to change that one yet, had you?) say that:

At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:

Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status.


Is there any evidence of GOM's whitewashing on any archive sites like archive.org?
stratmatt
Profile Joined April 2011
United States913 Posts
December 16 2011 00:18 GMT
#609
On December 16 2011 09:11 OrangeSoda wrote:
So what Sundance is saying is that GOM wears the pants in the relationship between the two and MLG has no say in anything. Pretty disrespectful to MLG.



Why would MLG have ANY say at all in how Gom runs thier own tournament? What could MLG possibly even hope to gain if they were to butt heads with Gom over how they decide to run thier own tournament? You really think MLG would like it if this were to happen at their event? I bet they are celebrating the fact that it didnt.
Packawana
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1081 Posts
December 16 2011 00:18 GMT
#610
To be honest, no matter how much people squirm and complain about it, this is certainly going to result in "lol, you guys forgot six months later" kind of thing.

There was miscommunication, all parties have accepted the result (if this were not the case, then this argument would be a very different story), but since it is, let's try to move on.
"May all your dreaming fill the empty sky."
Hall0wed
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States8486 Posts
December 16 2011 00:19 GMT
#611
Unnecessary drama TT
♦ My Life for BESTie ♦ 류세라 = 배 ♦
Alpino
Profile Joined June 2011
Brazil4390 Posts
December 16 2011 00:19 GMT
#612
On December 16 2011 09:16 Fungal Growth wrote:
Would be also interested in seeing that Chae video if somebody can find it that stated Naniwa had code-s.

Found this on another TL thread and thought it was most interesting: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295033&currentpage=34#677

Show nested quote +
1. Why were the two seeds called "INTERNATIONAL SEED" and the other one "MLG PROVIDENCE CODE S SEED" on your official website (which you in stealth changed today)?
2. Why did your own twitter comment say that you revoked his Code S seed (which you also, deleted today)?

3. Why was it announced on your official partners website that Naniwa has .. earned a seat in Code S?
4. And why does it say on your official website when you announced the partner program still (not had time to change that one yet, had you?) say that:

At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:

Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status.


Is there any evidence of GOM's whitewashing on any archive sites like archive.org?


You can find the quotes going back to first pages of the first threads I'd guess. At least the "revoked" tweet you can. But not the actual thing ofc. Maybe someone has a screen?
20/11/2015 - never forget EE's Ember
AngelusDeLetum
Profile Joined April 2010
United States98 Posts
December 16 2011 00:20 GMT
#613
wooooow how the hell does GOM think that they can just do this, very poor business actions overall and i have lost a lot of respect for them... MLG has to agree with their decision because the unity is tooo powerful for them as well. Atleast MLG was clear that they did not know what was going on, which indeed makes this extremely fishy for GOM. Sad situation.
Fjodorov
Profile Joined December 2011
5007 Posts
December 16 2011 00:21 GMT
#614
On December 16 2011 09:18 stratmatt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2011 09:11 OrangeSoda wrote:
So what Sundance is saying is that GOM wears the pants in the relationship between the two and MLG has no say in anything. Pretty disrespectful to MLG.



Why would MLG have ANY say at all in how Gom runs thier own tournament? What could MLG possibly even hope to gain if they were to butt heads with Gom over how they decide to run thier own tournament? You really think MLG would like it if this were to happen at their event? I bet they are celebrating the fact that it didnt.


Because MLG is the one handing out the prize and if the prize is false they will be held accountable. MLG has a reputation and their own sponsor. You dont think it damages their name to wake up and realize that the prize they handed out in their biggest tournament was fake?
xBillehx
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States1289 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-16 00:28:03
December 16 2011 00:25 GMT
#615
Okay so considering all announcements so far, I'm just gonna throw my honest opinion on the situation out there.

I do believe this was changed back when the 2012 format was announced. GOM had a pretty piss poor communication error in clarifying the seeds for the new format and notifying MLG about it. MLG, unaware that Providence seeds were changed to Blizzcup seeds went on promoting the Code S reward.

On an entirely separate point, since MLG's Providence format was different than the regular pro circuit, the MLG-GSL Exchange program was inevitably changed anyway to adjust to that format. There were no pools, and Koreans were not seeded based on GSL points but rather MLG points they had to earn themselves. I believe this was in MLG's right to do, but ultimately there were no specifics about the National Finals or clauses in the event of format changes in the original announcements. However, because I feel this was MLG's right to do, adjust the exchange program based on a different format, I also feel it was GSL's right to adjust their side based on their new format as well. (MLG doesn't seem to contend that it was GSL's right to adjust placement)

Shortly after MLG, it seems the Korean esports media (thisisgame) picked up on the fact that the changes might not have guaranteed a Code S spot from Providence. Unfortunately due to a language barrier, no one on the western side of esports media noticed the article or questioned the 2012 format changing seeds like thisisgame did. As a side note here, I believe this highlights a hole in the current esports journalism system where we need individuals monitoring the other side of the world to pick up on things we are not able to here. I might make a blog about this later cause it's something that's been around for a while here on TL in how we rely on volunteer translators to break stories from Korea.

I don't believe the changes have anything to do with Naniwa at all because again I believe the seeding was changed (at least in GOM's mind) way before this past weekend. I believe this because Idra was notified of his seed by Gom last week, before the Naniwa situation happened, yet according to Naniwa he was never notified about a Code S seed. Considering this, I really do believe Naniwa was up for the possibility of a seed but Gom hadn't decided and thus had yet to inform him of any decision when the whole uhoh situation occurred.

tl;dr:
GOM made a shitty communication mistake regarding the changes and failed to tell MLG about it. (it's alright to be upset about this)
MLG/GSL both adjusted the original agreements because of formats, which is well within their rights.
There's a hole in esports media (usually filled by volunteer translators on TL which is not always the best idea)
Naniwa having his name kicked off the Code S list for being disrespectful is irrelevant cause it seems he never had the spot guaranteed by Gom in the first place based on changes to their system.
Taengoo ♥
DyEnasTy
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3714 Posts
December 16 2011 00:30 GMT
#616
On December 16 2011 05:08 terranmoccasin wrote:
We really need to drop this and move on. For anyone that doesn't want to support GOM, so be it. I feel like all of this drama impacts every organization and the fans negatively. The best anyone can do is to avoid situations like this altogether in the future.

Let's just enjoy some SC2!


This is a little bigger than the typical petty squabbles. Its not ok to support someone (GOM) that is publicly doing something wrong just because everyone wants to watch koreans. Because now GOM can get away with almost anything they want, and people still are willing to support them so they can watch koreans.
Much better to die an awesome Terran than to live as a magic wielding fairy or a mindless sac of biological goop. -Manifesto7
Rorschach
Profile Joined May 2010
United States623 Posts
December 16 2011 00:31 GMT
#617
On December 16 2011 09:16 Fungal Growth wrote:
Would be also interested in seeing that Chae video if somebody can find it that stated Naniwa had code-s.

Found this on another TL thread and thought it was most interesting: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295033&currentpage=34#677

Show nested quote +
1. Why were the two seeds called "INTERNATIONAL SEED" and the other one "MLG PROVIDENCE CODE S SEED" on your official website (which you in stealth changed today)?
2. Why did your own twitter comment say that you revoked his Code S seed (which you also, deleted today)?

3. Why was it announced on your official partners website that Naniwa has .. earned a seat in Code S?
4. And why does it say on your official website when you announced the partner program still (not had time to change that one yet, had you?) say that:

At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:

Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status.


Is there any evidence of GOM's whitewashing on any archive sites like archive.org?


Thank you for pulling this up (did not know).
Gom has dropped the ball on this one....
En Taro Adun, Executor!
Devolved
Profile Joined April 2008
United States2753 Posts
December 16 2011 00:32 GMT
#618
On December 16 2011 09:14 Fjodorov wrote:
English is not my native language so can someone be kind enough to explain what this sentence means: " it is within GSL's jurisdiction to adjust placement." Specifically the "adjust placement" part. What do they mean? Naniwa placed second at mlg and they cant adjust that. Im probably being stupid and theres some legal definition to the word im not aware of, but im still curious.



Basically what MLG is saying is that they have no authority over GSL Code S placement. Once the MLG tournament is over, additional GSL based prizes (such as a Code S seed) are completely out of their hands. If the GSL decides to change their prize, then that is entirely up to the GSL and MLG can not force them to change their seeding process even if it was previously agreed upon.
$♥$
Packawana
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1081 Posts
December 16 2011 00:32 GMT
#619
On December 16 2011 09:30 DyEnasTy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2011 05:08 terranmoccasin wrote:
We really need to drop this and move on. For anyone that doesn't want to support GOM, so be it. I feel like all of this drama impacts every organization and the fans negatively. The best anyone can do is to avoid situations like this altogether in the future.

Let's just enjoy some SC2!


This is a little bigger than the typical petty squabbles. Its not ok to support someone (GOM) that is publicly doing something wrong just because everyone wants to watch koreans. Because now GOM can get away with almost anything they want, and people still are willing to support them so they can watch koreans.


If you want to hurt GOM, then don't give them your business. That's simply the only way to do it -- they won't and shouldn't care about what the public thinks unless it is hurting them significantly. You don't run a business off of public opinion at all times -- otherwise things such as health insurance or the government wouldn't exist.
"May all your dreaming fill the empty sky."
Fungal Growth
Profile Joined November 2010
United States434 Posts
December 16 2011 00:39 GMT
#620
Here's the thing...I don't think GOM is worried too much about losing subscribers...more so about sponsors. Guess who on of MLG's biggest sponsor is? Ericsson. Guess where Ericsson is based out of? Sweden. Do you think a a large corporation like Ericsson would want to support GOM after it has enraged so many Swedish fans? (who by my unscientific estimate are some of the most vocal about Gom's time traveling rules) If these big corporations get word that their favorite demographic is upset with their advertising platform they could very well pull the plug.
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