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On December 16 2011 06:18 Squeegy wrote:
People keep mixing up different issues. GOM screwed up in not telling MLG. But that is a different matter than the issue with Naniwa. Blame GOM all you want for this but don't think this somehow excuses Naniwa.
With that being said, it seems to me like GOM at the same time changed the rules but didn't inform anyone as they were certain of Naniwa's code S seed. That is in their mind the rules were changed but the outcome would still be the same as before, so technically nothing would change. But then Naniwa defied destiny and caused an outrage. Clearly GOM's decision was hasty and not fully thought out and not they will get some flak for it and rightfully so.
With that also being said, some people who are trying to make this Korea against Foreigners are dumber than my pair of shoes.
That Korean link someone posted earlier is pretty interesting--an article from a month ago that basically said it was unclear whether or not MLG Providence was granting a Code S spot or not.
I didn't know such uncertainty existed at the time, but it's interesting.
Clearly some miscommunications along the way here, though.
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Poor MLG 
Really been disappointed in GOM lately.
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On December 16 2011 06:12 Longshank wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 06:08 Treemonkeys wrote:On December 16 2011 06:06 Longshank wrote:On December 16 2011 06:04 Treemonkeys wrote:On December 16 2011 06:01 Sheldonal wrote:On December 16 2011 06:00 Treemonkeys wrote:On December 16 2011 05:59 HappyChris wrote:On December 16 2011 05:53 lightsentry wrote:On December 16 2011 05:51 Brett wrote:
So do people STILL accept that GOM is completely blameless in this situation? Do you STILL beleive that they are infallible? I don't believe that anything is infallible, but yeah I still have my opinion that GOM isn't wrong and what they did was fine. You have got to be kidding me buddy. Its the same thing if MLG promise 1 million dollars to a winner of a tournament and then decide aftwards to change it becuase its in there power todo so. Mindblowing What about when MLG promises code S and can't follow through? Because GOM decides not to tell anyone that they changed the prize? Yeah what about that? ...it's the MLG prize that changed, and MLG saying it was just fine for them to change it. GOM is providing the prize but MLG is promising it and calling it a code S spot. Uhm no, GOM promised it on their own website. Since before the website changed? I don't think it's there now, but it was still MLG promoting every time they had a tournament. Can we look at what GOM actually promised? Does anyone have that? http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/news/65291edit: "At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows: Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status. Code A status will be awarded to the next 3 highest placing non-Korean players. If Code S status is awarded to a Korean player, Code A status also will be awarded to the 4th highest placing non-Korean player."
....and they followed through with this. By MLG providence there was no 2011 code S left and they had made it public that things were changed in 2012. They weren't explictly clear about what would happen with the new format, and neither was MLG, and both sides could have taken the initiative to sort this out before it came to all this. I hold MLG more accountable because it was being offered as a prize to *their* tournament and they were able to profit from it.
I'm sorry but MLG is just as much to blame in this.
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This is the mother of all esports dramas right about now... getting absolutely ridiculous!
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A bit of poor communication. Not a big deal, really.
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I for one am shocked and appalled by this. Shocked and appalled.
and GOM wanted to speak about the meaning of the word "professionalism" LOL!
The irony in this whole shitstorm is DELICIOUS.
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On December 16 2011 06:20 Treemonkeys wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 06:12 Longshank wrote:On December 16 2011 06:08 Treemonkeys wrote:On December 16 2011 06:06 Longshank wrote:On December 16 2011 06:04 Treemonkeys wrote:On December 16 2011 06:01 Sheldonal wrote:On December 16 2011 06:00 Treemonkeys wrote:On December 16 2011 05:59 HappyChris wrote:On December 16 2011 05:53 lightsentry wrote:On December 16 2011 05:51 Brett wrote:
So do people STILL accept that GOM is completely blameless in this situation? Do you STILL beleive that they are infallible? I don't believe that anything is infallible, but yeah I still have my opinion that GOM isn't wrong and what they did was fine. You have got to be kidding me buddy. Its the same thing if MLG promise 1 million dollars to a winner of a tournament and then decide aftwards to change it becuase its in there power todo so. Mindblowing What about when MLG promises code S and can't follow through? Because GOM decides not to tell anyone that they changed the prize? Yeah what about that? ...it's the MLG prize that changed, and MLG saying it was just fine for them to change it. GOM is providing the prize but MLG is promising it and calling it a code S spot. Uhm no, GOM promised it on their own website. Since before the website changed? I don't think it's there now, but it was still MLG promoting every time they had a tournament. Can we look at what GOM actually promised? Does anyone have that? http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/news/65291edit: "At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows: Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status. Code A status will be awarded to the next 3 highest placing non-Korean players. If Code S status is awarded to a Korean player, Code A status also will be awarded to the 4th highest placing non-Korean player." ....and they followed through with this. By MLG providence there was no 2011 code S left and they had made it public that things were changed in 2012. They weren't explictly clear about what would happen with the new format, and neither was MLG, and both sides could have taken the initiative to sort this out before it came to all this. I hold MLG more accountable because it was being offered as a prize to *their* tournament and they were able to profit from it. I'm sorry but MLG is just as much to blame in this.
Now you're trying too hard.
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There is no GLS in December, It was November(2011) GSL -> Blizzcup -> January(2012) GSL.
And GOMxMLG exchange was for 2011 anyway no-one could have won seed for 2012. No wonder that KeSpa never wanted to be involved in foreing see, look at how you act spoiled brats.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
So now we can all drop the conspiracy talk. GOMTV made the mistake of not making it clear how they were changing the Code S spot from Providence. They did not however, try to deceive us & cover up their actions concerning the Naniwa incident. I hope they learn from all this and make things crystal clear from now on.
I still support the way they handled the Naniwa incident. He acted unprofessionally which justifies them removing him from the list of candidates for the Code S seeds.
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Glad it's over (i hope). Lost some respect for GomTv for misleading us and changing everything last second to suit there own needs.
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On December 16 2011 06:17 Trsjnica wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 06:14 s4life wrote:On December 16 2011 06:07 Trsjnica wrote:On December 16 2011 06:05 Ghola wrote:On December 16 2011 05:36 castled wrote:
Regardless of whether or not Nani "earned" a code S invite, he threw it away by disrespecting GOM, his opponent, and the viewers. I hope GOM doesn't feel pressure to reverse their decision because so many vocal posters on Teamliquid don't understand the meaning of respect.
I'm really sick of this whole controversy because no matter how many level-headed evaluations are posted, there are so many people that will never understand. There are ways for Gom to punish Naniwa without breaking their agreements with MLG. The MLG press release in the original post specifically says that GOM was within their rights to act as they did. Thus, the did not break their agreement at all--this was in the contract to begin with. Are you fucking kidding me??? If an organizer offers you a certain prize and announces it publicly, and then when you win tells you the prize is not what he/she promised you because of a fine print in page 500 of a contract he signed with a third party, what would you do?? I guess if you are not worked up about it, the natural thing to say would be "oh well, that's what I get for dealing with crooks and liars" .. this is something you'd never expect from an organization that is trying to market themselves as professional and ethical. Uh, so are you arguing that MLG broke their promise to Naniwa then?
MLG is coming clean by shrewdly exerting all the blame on GOM, they claim GOM changed the contract unilaterally and without previous notice... the truth? I guess we'll wait for GOM's announcement. Still, I think MLG tried to play nice with GOM by making it look like if they have the right to change anything in the contract unilaterally... I mean, really? could GOM just say sorry no code A, code S for anybody and MLG be ok with that??? I seriously doubt it, it seems more likely that they are both just colluding to fuck up Naniwa coz they know he's a sitting duck right now.
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Knowing this, it seems even more ridiculous that GOM didn't even wait 24 hours before making a desicion regarding Naniwa's Code S. They've handled this extremely poorly. Think it through and sleep on it next time, GOM.
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MLG paying for 4 players to come to mlg and are only allowed to send 2 to korea without an official statement from GSL. Is that fair?
OR should the two players be honored to be participating in the Blizzardcup? I mean it doesn't really have any influence to the actual GSL Code A/S. It is only ONE try without any chance to get further in anything. eg. If the players actually got the code a/s spot and were able to "survive" there, they would have a FIX spot in the next GSL. IMO a spot in code A/S is more worth then the blizzcup. and don't come with the logic blizzardcup = lessgames+easier money.
I assume GSL expected that MLG was fine with those changes and didn't have to make an official statement.
That's the same when Naniwa expected that "It's OK" to throw a game without any consequences.
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Some of you are failing to see the actual point here. Anyone who played in providence and thought they were eligible for a code s seed could have gotten screwed over here. You cannot honestly tell me TL fans would calmly sit back and accept the idea that Hero got into code s only a few days later ( since gom would have had to correct this misconception right away as there are no spare code s seeds just international ones) to learn " Nope just blizzcup and we never told mlg sorry." Try and seperate this new information from the drama currently going on. This is purely about Gom's failure to communicate with MLG and allowing their partner to inform people they have won prizes that do not exists.
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On December 16 2011 06:20 Warlock40 wrote:
A bit of poor communication. Not a big deal, really.
It's not a communication problem. It's GOM trying to push their weight. Naniwa is not liked in Korea, this is there excuse to banish him.
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Yeah... the last Gom post was highly convenient for GOM... quite the interesting predicament
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This situation is just like every other situation. A corporation does something bad. No punishment. Then a person does something along the same lines and he pays for it. This is the world we live in. =(
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"but it is within GSL's jurisdiction to adjust placement."
the important part of the statement.
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On December 16 2011 06:23 s4life wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 06:17 Trsjnica wrote:On December 16 2011 06:14 s4life wrote:On December 16 2011 06:07 Trsjnica wrote:On December 16 2011 06:05 Ghola wrote:On December 16 2011 05:36 castled wrote:
Regardless of whether or not Nani "earned" a code S invite, he threw it away by disrespecting GOM, his opponent, and the viewers. I hope GOM doesn't feel pressure to reverse their decision because so many vocal posters on Teamliquid don't understand the meaning of respect.
I'm really sick of this whole controversy because no matter how many level-headed evaluations are posted, there are so many people that will never understand. There are ways for Gom to punish Naniwa without breaking their agreements with MLG. The MLG press release in the original post specifically says that GOM was within their rights to act as they did. Thus, the did not break their agreement at all--this was in the contract to begin with. Are you fucking kidding me??? If an organizer offers you a certain prize and announces it publicly, and then when you win tells you the prize is not what he/she promised you because of a fine print in page 500 of a contract he signed with a third party, what would you do?? I guess if you are not worked up about it, the natural thing to say would be "oh well, that's what I get for dealing with crooks and liars" .. this is something you'd never expect from an organization that is trying to market themselves as professional and ethical. Uh, so are you arguing that MLG broke their promise to Naniwa then? MLG is coming clean by shrewdly exerting all the blame on GOM, they claim GOM changed the contract unilaterally and without previous notice... the truth? I guess we'll wait for GOM's announcement. Still, I think MLG tried to play nice with GOM by making it look like if they have the right to change anything in the contract unilaterally... I mean, really? could GOM just say sorry no code A, code S for anybody and MLG be ok with that??? I seriously doubt it, it seems more likely that they are both just colluding to fuck up Naniwa coz they know he's a sitting duck right now.
I know your ID says Peru, and its possible english isn't your first language (although you speak fine), but I have to nitpick here:
GOM did not change the contract unilaterally. In fact, they did not change the contract at all. They took actions which both sides agree were within their rights under the contract.
If you are instead suggesting that GOM's actions were not within the contract, and that both GOM and MLG are lying, based upon a contract that you have not seen... Well, that is a large leap of logic. Both parties that have actually seen the contract say that it was not violated. Because I have not seen the contract, I will take their word.
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EPT
