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Canada13412 Posts
The outline of Blizzard CUP is as follows:
Players: Best 10 of 2011
- 2011 GSL Point Ranking TOP 1,2,3 (3)
- 1st and 2nd place of MLG Providence (2)
- Winner of IEM NYC (1)
- Winner of IPL Season 3 (1)
- Winner of DreamHack Winter (1)
- Winner of Blizzcon (1)
- Winner of WCG (1)
- If players have more than one title, suitable replacements will be invited
From http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=272406
Posted October 6th. This seems more like a misunderstanding than anything else.
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Guys give it up.
DoA said it best on his blog:
http://www.itsgosu.com/game/sc2/blogs/naniwa-and-gomtv-cause-and-effect-101_127
Thank you DoA.
Here's some exerpts:
"Being a mature adult means considering other people's feelings and viewpoints and Naniwa has a ways to go yet in that regard. I'm convinced that what he did at the Blizzard Cup wasn't intended to insult Nestea himself or the Korean player community, but the context in which Naniwa did what he did had that effect anyway, whether he meant it or not. Historically, Naniwa has been quick to criticize tournaments and his Probe rush was meant only as an "F U" to GOM."
"There certainly is a bit of culture clash involved though in that decision by GOMtv. Naniwa is playing with the western mentality that largely puts an emphasis on match results while GOM and Nestea are operating on a mindset that puts an emphasis on showing your skill for the fans even if you don't personally gain anything from it."
"Naniwa boxed his workers and A-moved them across the map. If you look at the VOD you can even see him take his hand off the keyboard and rest his chin in it after he does it. He didn't micro or do anything even remotely resembling playing the actual game so let's not kid ourselves and say it was a "valid strategy"
DoA has spoken. And thus all this needs to stop. Naniwa fans, you know as well as I do, that you can just wait for the next:
- MLG
- NASL
- IPL
Or ANY upcoming tourney where Naniwa will be playing at anyways. The whole boycotting and Western attitude of "Naniwa is an exception, he should get to do anything he wants, whenever he wants" needs to stop. Quit thinking of us as special snowflakes who get to be "bad boys" and get away with anything we want.
User was warned for this post
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On December 16 2011 06:18 JoeSchmoe wrote:well no shit. the article is discussing whether Naniwa is a top contender for a code S spot under the new system given his performance at MLG.
From Google Translate
Bears TV long ago, in 2012 the league announced the approach proposed changes. According to this code via MLG S seed in the 2012 season is likely to disappear. S can be directly into the code jikhaenghal seed 2 Seeding sponsor stuff. One of these conditions are not sure what MLG seed.
Sponsor Code S Syd Bears TV Chapter 2 for association with foreign competition has stated that it will take. If you like MLG and GSL war again in 2012 if the player code, S Direct flexible exchange programs John Lu three cigars that are a priority.
John Lu three city code, rather than S seunggyeokgangdeungjeon There exists a possibility that you will receive the seed. A bear and a code for TV without taking the qualifying foreign players in the promotion relegation as soon as I prepared to Chapter 2 sangtaeda seed that can compete.
Seems that ThisIsGame is aware that in the 2012 format, it was changed to Invites rather than MLG seeds, but that Naniwa was probably going to be one of the first invites for his performance at Providence.
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On December 16 2011 05:15 slicknav wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 05:11 Lann555 wrote:Doubt their intent was bad. Probably just a miss communication. Nevertheless, massive drama ensuing in 3-2-1....  I have to agree. I doubt GOM is some evil corporation out to destroy the world through Starcraft. Who would have thought so much drama would occur over a worker rush?
I don't think they are evil, they are jus fucking retarded and unprofessional.. the irony of it is, they are punishing Naniwa for .. guess what?? being unprofessional.. lol.
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This is like an endless cycle of pain. I feel like a white knight will come out of no where and be like "DEAL WITH IT." Then all the netizens will be like "meh, whatever, I didnt even care."
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On December 16 2011 05:07 zeru wrote:
So basically MLG Providence code S prize was an unintentional bait and switch, made by GOM? wtf.
Bait and switches are illegal, in the US at least i think. This is not ok by GOM.
GOM punishes naniwa for being unprofessional. GOM does something way way way worse, lies and scams, and don't tell their partners about any changes regarding their exchange program agreement while MLG pays for 4 koreans to come to providence. Whos unprofessional now?
Having a prize pool change after a tournament has been played is NOT acceptable, and of course I'm not blaming MLG for this in any way.
Quit talking out of your ass. In their statement, MLG said it was under the jurisdiction of GSL to change the code S spot to the Blizzard Cup invite. Nani was unprofessional and GOM didn't lie or scam, they made format changes which would have also given Nani code S because they have 2 foreigner slots. So in fact, if Nani just played the game against Nestea, he would have gotten way more than he earned for his second place finish at MLG.
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On December 16 2011 06:20 Warlock40 wrote:
A bit of poor communication. Not a big deal, really.
In many countries you'd get convicted for that kind of "poor communication". Even if it was in GOM's jurisdiction to do this, it was 1. extremely unprofessional, you don't treat stakeholders like this, neither MLG as a partner nor the players playing for a Code S spot and 2. a complete disaster in terms of PR.
I mean seriously? The guys play for Code S spots, expect to stay in the country for X amount of time and play around date Y and then GOM changes the format but "forgets" to notify people ahead of time of the switch from Code S to Blizzard Cup? I mean apparently people were under the impression the deal was still on DURING the Blizz Cup. Code S would have meant Code A or Up/Down at least, that's a whole different story than playing against a selection of the best once and then being left to die. MLG advertised this. In my very humble opinion MLG should be extremely pissed (and I have no doubt they are). This crap can never happen again but I guess GOM does not wish to keep good relations with MLG anyways after they switched to sponsor spots which do not require MLG to be part of the process. GOM is just internatlizing the foreigner-effect on their subscriber numbers without giving the players legitimization and then even making sponsors pay for the spots. That's just ridiculous, this whole thing is getting out of hand. I'm sorry but that's pretty much the most horrible service industry example I've seen in a while.
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On December 16 2011 06:28 Angel_ wrote:
"but it is within GSL's jurisdiction to adjust placement."
the important part of the statement.
For some reason, this just doesn't make me any happier.
"It is within Naniwa's jurisdiction to probe rush"
GOM has already made it very clear that simply following the rules isn't enough. That's why saying "they were technically still following the rules" isn't going to convince anyone that this is OK.
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You mean Naniwa go seeded in a prestigious tournament with less players and a better chance of winning instead of Code S?
Oh me oh my the nerve! How dare they!
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I really wish people would stop asking this to be dropped. It's not a question of Naniwa, MLG, or even GOM for that matter. It's the fundamentals of competition in that you are presented with something you deem worthy to compete for and devote yourself to which is being compromised.
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On December 16 2011 06:30 D_K_night wrote:Guys give it up.DoA said it best on his blog: http://www.itsgosu.com/game/sc2/blogs/naniwa-and-gomtv-cause-and-effect-101_127Thank you DoA. Here's some exerpts: "Being a mature adult means considering other people's feelings and viewpoints and Naniwa has a ways to go yet in that regard. I'm convinced that what he did at the Blizzard Cup wasn't intended to insult Nestea himself or the Korean player community, but the context in which Naniwa did what he did had that effect anyway, whether he meant it or not. Historically, Naniwa has been quick to criticize tournaments and his Probe rush was meant only as an "F U" to GOM." "There certainly is a bit of culture clash involved though in that decision by GOMtv. Naniwa is playing with the western mentality that largely puts an emphasis on match results while GOM and Nestea are operating on a mindset that puts an emphasis on showing your skill for the fans even if you don't personally gain anything from it." "Naniwa boxed his workers and A-moved them across the map. If you look at the VOD you can even see him take his hand off the keyboard and rest his chin in it after he does it. He didn't micro or do anything even remotely resembling playing the actual game so let's not kid ourselves and say it was a "valid strategy" DoA has spoken. And thus all this needs to stop. Naniwa fans, you know as well as I do, that you can just wait for the next: - MLG - NASL - IPL Or ANY upcoming tourney where Naniwa will be playing at anyways. The whole boycotting and Western attitude of "Naniwa is an exception, he should get to do anything he wants, whenever he wants" needs to stop. Quit thinking of us as special snowflakes who get to be "bad boys" and get away with anything we want.
Ok so basically what you saying is that is ok for 1 culture to dictate the entire world whats accepted and political correct?
Plz say you kidding
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On December 16 2011 06:20 Treemonkeys wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 06:12 Longshank wrote:On December 16 2011 06:08 Treemonkeys wrote:On December 16 2011 06:06 Longshank wrote:On December 16 2011 06:04 Treemonkeys wrote:On December 16 2011 06:01 Sheldonal wrote:On December 16 2011 06:00 Treemonkeys wrote:On December 16 2011 05:59 HappyChris wrote:On December 16 2011 05:53 lightsentry wrote:On December 16 2011 05:51 Brett wrote:
So do people STILL accept that GOM is completely blameless in this situation? Do you STILL beleive that they are infallible? I don't believe that anything is infallible, but yeah I still have my opinion that GOM isn't wrong and what they did was fine. You have got to be kidding me buddy. Its the same thing if MLG promise 1 million dollars to a winner of a tournament and then decide aftwards to change it becuase its in there power todo so. Mindblowing What about when MLG promises code S and can't follow through? Because GOM decides not to tell anyone that they changed the prize? Yeah what about that? ...it's the MLG prize that changed, and MLG saying it was just fine for them to change it. GOM is providing the prize but MLG is promising it and calling it a code S spot. Uhm no, GOM promised it on their own website. Since before the website changed? I don't think it's there now, but it was still MLG promoting every time they had a tournament. Can we look at what GOM actually promised? Does anyone have that? http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/news/65291edit: "At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows: Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status. Code A status will be awarded to the next 3 highest placing non-Korean players. If Code S status is awarded to a Korean player, Code A status also will be awarded to the 4th highest placing non-Korean player." ....and they followed through with this. By MLG providence there was no 2011 code S left and they had made it public that things were changed in 2012. They weren't explictly clear about what would happen with the new format, and neither was MLG, and both sides could have taken the initiative to sort this out before it came to all this. I hold MLG more accountable because it was being offered as a prize to *their* tournament and they were able to profit from it. I'm sorry but MLG is just as much to blame in this.
Read a little more closely - the original states all 2011 MLGs will award a code S spot. Providence was in 2011 and thus should award a code S (no mention the code S spot has to be in 2011 as well) spot.
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On December 16 2011 06:32 Defacer wrote:
You mean Naniwa go seeded in a tournament with less players and a better chance of winning instead of Code S?
Oh me oh my the nerve! How dare they!
Actually he had a lower chance of winning. Code S is Bo3/Bo5/Bo7. Blizzard cup is Bo1/Bo5/Bo7 with the most dominant players in the world.
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What people fail to realise is that they were going to seed Naniwa into code S ANYWAY. So he basically got an extra benefit by being granted a Blizzard Cup seed as well! The thing is, his bad decision meant he lost the "extra benefit". Gom will of made the switch assuming it would be perfectly fine, because they were going to seed Naniwa into code S as well.
In this particular instance, GOM are at no blame whatsoever. The only blame to be placed on GOM was for the faulty tournament design for the Blizz cup, but lets not go over that again.
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NaNi has said he is okay with it, he made a very mature apology on LO3. This should be over now. The best thing for him is to keep practicing and storm through Code A in two seasons. GOM has every right to handle this situation like they did.
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On December 16 2011 06:17 lamz wrote:
guys i study intercultural communication and today i found interestin thing about South Korea, Here JUST LISTEN TO THIS SHIT AND YOULL SEE WHY GOM MAKES THIS ALL:
They may use aggression or ignorance to divert attention from their actions but do not apologize for their original error at any cast.
This is exactly HOW GOM IS ACTING
Almost every public figure or business follows that, including the trusty "no comment". Apologising is believed, by many, to be an admission of guilt. Where as it can also be used to try to put an end to negative situations and provide closure.
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On December 16 2011 06:30 D_K_night wrote:Guys give it up.DoA said it best on his blog: http://www.itsgosu.com/game/sc2/blogs/naniwa-and-gomtv-cause-and-effect-101_127Thank you DoA. Here's some exerpts: "Being a mature adult means considering other people's feelings and viewpoints and Naniwa has a ways to go yet in that regard. I'm convinced that what he did at the Blizzard Cup wasn't intended to insult Nestea himself or the Korean player community, but the context in which Naniwa did what he did had that effect anyway, whether he meant it or not. Historically, Naniwa has been quick to criticize tournaments and his Probe rush was meant only as an "F U" to GOM." "There certainly is a bit of culture clash involved though in that decision by GOMtv. Naniwa is playing with the western mentality that largely puts an emphasis on match results while GOM and Nestea are operating on a mindset that puts an emphasis on showing your skill for the fans even if you don't personally gain anything from it." "Naniwa boxed his workers and A-moved them across the map. If you look at the VOD you can even see him take his hand off the keyboard and rest his chin in it after he does it. He didn't micro or do anything even remotely resembling playing the actual game so let's not kid ourselves and say it was a "valid strategy" DoA has spoken. And thus all this needs to stop. Naniwa fans, you know as well as I do, that you can just wait for the next: - MLG - NASL - IPL Or ANY upcoming tourney where Naniwa will be playing at anyways. The whole boycotting and Western attitude of "Naniwa is an exception, he should get to do anything he wants, whenever he wants" needs to stop. Quit thinking of us as special snowflakes who get to be "bad boys" and get away with anything we want.
Fyi. This is irrelevant. DoA did not comment on why GOM went back on their word.
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On December 16 2011 06:32 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 06:28 Angel_ wrote:
"but it is within GSL's jurisdiction to adjust placement."
the important part of the statement. For some reason, this just doesn't make me any happier. "It is within Naniwa's jurisdiction to probe rush"GOM has already made it very clear that simply following the rules isn't enough. That's why saying "they were technically still following the rules" isn't going to convince anyone that this is OK.
Ok say it is within his jurisdiction to probe rush and he followed the rules. Guess what? He wasn't guaranteed a code S spot. They were considering him for it, but they never announced it completely. What he won at providence was a blizzcup seed, and they gave him that. Beyond that, they didn't owe him anything.
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On December 16 2011 06:32 Defacer wrote:
You mean Naniwa go seeded in a prestigious tournament with less players and a better chance of winning instead of Code S?
Oh me oh my the nerve! How dare they!
LOL, nice point. Code S pays ~ 2500 euros/person, while BlizzCup pays 4250 euros/person. (Of course, Code S also pays in future Code S seeds and I don't feel like doing math on that.)
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LOL this is getting more and more crazy
Can somebody link me to announcement made by GOM/MLG that Code S spot from Providence is gonna change to spot in BlizzardCup??? I really want to see that. Because afaik 2012 season format change was announced just a week ago (12/10/2011), 2 days before Blizzard Cup. So when were they planning to announce that? We are getting that information only after naniwagate ... that is just weird and it seems like they are trying very hard to make up more and more excuses for their mistake.
Blizzard Cup spots and Providence Code S spot were announced separately on different occasions, so initially for providence there was one spot in Code S from LXP and only just then there was announcement that top 2 players get spots in Blizzard Cup (no change to code S spot was mentioned). So as I see it, there were 3 spots to play for. And now, after Blizzard Cup, they announce that there was no Code S spot, just 2 blizzcup spots? I mean, WTF?
Also, in new format, changing direct spot for Code S for some place in hypothetic list of possible candidates, selection of which is influenced by very subjective opinions on their attitude and not just proven skill is step backwards, imho.
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EPT
