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On December 14 2011 22:09 T0fuuu wrote:
Well would you rather it be played like kespa where arbitary rules are taken like the law. Pause without excuse, FORFEIT, tyep anything other than GG , FORFEIT. Stream or participate in any nonsanctioned league? LICENSE REVOKED. . .
Well, this case makes me understand Kespa.
You guys are defending a professional player that willignly lost an aired game in the most obvious way possible (except killing his own untis/buildings).
If you can't ban a player for such behaviour, for what should you ban a player then?
The actually sad thing is the love that Naniwa got after his MLG Dallas run thru, in large parts, " very questionable" opposition. He was not liked or actually plain hated by the community before that, he was kicked out of leagues, some online cups back then probably had more downtime than aired playtime because Naniwa did not feel like plaining "right now"...... ... Just because he had a good result you guys jumped on the "lovetrain".
Pathetic.
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You are really hitting the nail on its head here, gsl is becoming a popularity contest, great post!
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On December 14 2011 21:52 Crushinator wrote:
I respect GOM's decision to kick Naniwa. Rules against 'unprofessional conduct' are difficult by nature to interpret, but a natural and necesary part of any competition in my opinion. I would have prefered to see Nani compete though, and hopefully he will.
Naniwa can't be expected to play his best and provide epic games after just being knocked out, but he can atleast be expected to have the common decendy to make SOMETHING out of it. Legitimate action by GOM.
lol i keep seeing this over and over but never any reasoning or argument.
So why? Why should he be expected to play out a meaningless game? There is no difference what so ever between a cannon rush (or any early game all-in) or this game. Either way he doesn't care about the results and just want to get it over with as fast a possible. Unless you want him to do it for the illusion that you've seen a real game.
On December 14 2011 21:53 boxturtle wrote:
Korean netizens wouldn't have laughed at this, though.
I thought it was ridiculous as an American living in California. We're the furthest thing from an "honor-bound" society, and Naniwa's behavior was absurd.
There's plenty of rules in sports, but most important rulings are made per basis. This was just that.
I stayed up late expecting the Naniwa v Nestea rematch. I didn't know the format, but had someone told me beforehand, I would've actually been happy, since I was anticipating the game, no matter when/why. I actually thought Naniwa and Nestea would both be x-0 and they'd be playing for the bragging rights of who got to walk away with a perfect rec as well as the highly anticipated rematch.
The result of the Nestea v Naniwa match was incredibly disappointing. If there hadn't been a slew of good rematches after that, I'd have gone and complained.
ehh, the argument is that there is a culture difference that naniwa should be respecting. You're post actually idicates that it is not a culture difference. You are not arguing for the naniwa ban, you are arguing against it without knowing it lol.
Yeah, it was disappointing, why should players get banned for supplying disappointing games? You admit yourself that you didn't know the format and therefore was disappointed. How is it naniwas fault that you didn't know the format? And complain to who? To gsl? Why would you complain about something naniwa did to gsl lol, unless you are saying it was gsl fault and not naniwas? less stupid here plz.
I know people love to hate naniwa, but at least come with a real argument for why he should be banned.
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More ignorant OP please. It's all about finding a foreigner that accepts the code A invite. That's why they have to go all the way to 15th place. I personally don't care that they go that far and you should think before you post such a wall of text. Emotional reactions are never good. GomTV has full right to stand up for thier audience when a player acts disrespectful. It's a privelege to compete in tournaments, not a right.
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i believe this arbitrary interpretation of rules will not happen again unless another real clown in the league of Naniwa shows up again somehow...which is unlikely to happen now.
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they didnt ban him. they didnt revoke anything either. they just arent considering naniwa anymore for this season's code s seed. naniwa can still get in by going through the preliminaries.
it would be ridiculous for them to invite naniwa based on merits after that little escapade...
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On December 14 2011 22:33 Magrath wrote:
More ignorant OP please. It's all about finding a foreigner that accepts the code A invite. That's why they have to go all the way to 15th place. I personally don't care that they go that far and you should think before you post such a wall of text. Emotional reactions are never good. GomTV has full right to stand up for thier audience when a player acts disrespectful. It's a privelege to compete in tournaments, not a right.
HAHAAHAHAH. Tennis players are grinning right now at your comment.
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If they are going to be running an international tournament they will have to be more lenient with cultural oversteps. They can't just kick people out for doing something that is against what they don't like.
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Rules are rules and should be treated as rules.
I'm ok with the ban. I'm not ok with Coca receiving no ban. It doesnt matter that he forfeited - GOM should've banned him. It's good for the integrity of a tournament. Everyone was like "Nono Coca didnt get banned he forfeited" and now suddenly "Well, Coca has no Code S spot like Naniwa".
Prior to the Naniwa incident you could argue "You will not get banned if you do X - see the Coca case".
Now it's "You will not get banned if you forfeit faster than they can ban you" and that is just shitty logic & ruling.
Idra & Sen suddenly receiving Code S spots falls into the same category for me. Am I happy for them? Yes, sure. But there's no rule which justifies it. It's purely arbitrary.
And that - dear GOM - is also very unprofessional.
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On December 14 2011 21:56 awu25 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:45 gregnog wrote:
Just as a comparison... how often do you hear of MLG making a controversial decision? How many times has Sundance bashed on a player? How many players question MLG's rules?
The only thing that comes to mind is when Catz was auto forfeited when he was 10 minutes late for his match. Maybe when they were thinking of having MLG jerseys.... open bracket is kind of grueling...
It just seems silly. Obviously GOM has control issues. Let's see....White-ra being disqualified for being late to his match...Extended series format...Seeding for future tournaments (players who kept losing in group stages yet they still had enough points to make it to the group stages for the next tournament)...so yea, there were some controversies
People complained about the rules in MLG, not MLG making arbitrary decisions, because the rules are unclear and can be interpreted however you want. They were consistent and professional, even though their rules weren't very good.
If there was a rule that you're banned for 1 month if you worker rush, this wouldn't have caused such a response.
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On December 14 2011 20:13 baoluvboa wrote:
If a Korean did it, he would be finished.
*coughs*
You were saying?
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On December 14 2011 22:42 mutantmagnet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:13 baoluvboa wrote:
If a Korean did it, he would be finished. *coughs*You were saying?
Didnt he win?
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On December 14 2011 22:41 lololol wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:56 awu25 wrote:On December 14 2011 21:45 gregnog wrote:
Just as a comparison... how often do you hear of MLG making a controversial decision? How many times has Sundance bashed on a player? How many players question MLG's rules?
The only thing that comes to mind is when Catz was auto forfeited when he was 10 minutes late for his match. Maybe when they were thinking of having MLG jerseys.... open bracket is kind of grueling...
It just seems silly. Obviously GOM has control issues. Let's see....White-ra being disqualified for being late to his match...Extended series format...Seeding for future tournaments (players who kept losing in group stages yet they still had enough points to make it to the group stages for the next tournament)...so yea, there were some controversies People complained about the rules in MLG, not MLG making arbitrary decisions, because the rules are unclear and can be interpreted however you want. They were consistent and professional, even though their rules weren't very good. If there was a rule that you're banned for 1 month if you worker rush, this wouldn't have caused such a response.
MLG also listens to complaints and re-evaluates rules whenever they feel they may be doing more harm than good.
♥ MLG!
The example being re-evaluating the rules about watching replays during a match.
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On December 14 2011 22:42 mutantmagnet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:13 baoluvboa wrote:
If a Korean did it, he would be finished. *coughs*You were saying?
Yep Nal_rA sending his first 4 probes and harassing with them and microing hardcore while producing probes dehind is exactly the same as a-moving all your probe in the opponent base.
That's like, the worst argument you could come up with TT
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So the precedent set is that if your games aren't played well enough, they can be interpreted as an offense to the viewing audience and you can be removed from the league.
When Idra gets eliminated why doesn't the community just cry out that we were offended by his opponents playstyle, regardless of what it is? Apparently this is how rules work
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On December 14 2011 22:42 mutantmagnet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:13 baoluvboa wrote:
If a Korean did it, he would be finished. *coughs*You were saying?
you are skilled in the art of anti-argument
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On December 14 2011 22:42 mutantmagnet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:13 baoluvboa wrote:
If a Korean did it, he would be finished. *coughs*You were saying?
...He won with it.
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On December 14 2011 22:44 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:42 mutantmagnet wrote:On December 14 2011 20:13 baoluvboa wrote:
If a Korean did it, he would be finished. *coughs*You were saying? Yep Nal_rA sending his first 4 probes and harassing with them and microing hardcore while producing probes dehind is exactly the same as a-moving all your probe in the opponent base. That's like, the worst argument you could come up with TT
But how can GOMTV have a rule that is based on how well a player perfoms a strat. Naniwa was tired, unmotivated and bored. If he would have done a 4gate it would not have been as good as a 4gate from say HUK in a real game.
So how do gomtv plan on making that judgment? proberush is ok if you win or micro but not if you lose and not micro?
The thing is that the crime here is that naniwa offended an opponent or audience. But with that rule, MC might aswell have offended idra or the audience at MLG with his ceremony. Koreans would call that normal and a part of esport, but fans or players outside korea might not find that amusing and actually get offended by that. So if MC would have done that in GSL would he have been punished like Naniwa for it?
Shall only stuff that koreans find offensive be punished or how is this rule going to work in the future?
Naniwa acted childish and deserved some sort of punish but this just blew way out of proportion and has caused a situation that gomtv might have serious problems with in the future.
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Am I the only person who thinks that this hurts GOM as much as Naniwa? Firstly, a huge amount of us foreigners or laughing at GOMs decision to revoke Code S. But they're missing a huge opportunity! Most Koreans hate Naniwa, and want nothing more than to destroy him and do such a bm celebration. The hype and anticipation for when Naniwa would have played next Code S would have been huge. But instead GOM is missing out on all of that...
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Haha this OP is so biased it's hardly worth responding to.
It's not Goms fault that players leave after they get their asses handed to them in Code A.
There was a rule already in place, and naniwer broke it. Live with it.
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EPT
