EPTAre GOMs arbitrary rules becoming a problem? - Page 9
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mutantmagnet
United States3789 Posts
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Kfish
Chile282 Posts
You could actually micro workers in bw and he won the game, You were saying? | ||
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Azzur
Australia6253 Posts
As for the revoking of Code S, this is neither new nor a precedent - it has happened in other sporting tournaments. Some people say that GOM needed to write explicit rules - but this is stupid and being overly legalistic. I think it'll be too difficult anyways to spell out everything in absolute detail and we don't need to pay lawyers for this kind of thing. It's better (like they have done) to have some kind of "catch all" rule and then use their discretion. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On December 14 2011 22:49 ronpaul012 wrote: Am I the only person who thinks that this hurts GOM as much as Naniwa? Firstly, a huge amount of us foreigners or laughing at GOMs decision to revoke Code S. But they're missing a huge opportunity! Most Koreans hate Naniwa, and want nothing more than to destroy him and do such a bm celebration. The hype and anticipation for when Naniwa would have played next Code S would have been huge. But instead GOM is missing out on all of that... Yes, of course it can only be a bad thing for GOM in terms of immediate viewers for the next season. However, the integrity of the game, sportsmanship, and the organization itself goes beyond the needs of catering to 1 diva who can't handle himself on stage. No single person is bigger than the game itself. | ||
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skyrunner
371 Posts
On December 14 2011 22:58 Azzur wrote: Anyways, Code S seeds for successful foreigners is a good thing. I think it's quite hard to have a foreigner come and stay for a while, all for a chance of qualifying for Code A. They then have to compete in a 2 month for a chance in Code S. A lot of tournaments (e.g. tennis) offer wildcards. As for the revoking of Code S, this is neither new nor a precedent - it has happened in other sporting tournaments. Some people say that GOM needed to write explicit rules - but this is stupid and being overly legalistic. I think it'll be too difficult anyways to spell out everything in absolute detail and we don't need to pay lawyers for this kind of thing. It's better (like they have done) to have some kind of "catch all" rule and then use their discretion. Funny how you bring up a real world and established sport in your first paragraph, then completely ignore that in your last paragraph. In real world sports the rules of conduct are very clear. Just as rules should be. That's the reason rules exist in the first place. Yes, sometimes it's up to interpretation and rules are more "open", but it is not good for rules to be unclear on purpose just so "we can do whatever we want". I would say it is pretty good if the players know what can or can't do, and what the punishment is when they break the rules. | ||
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gullberg
Sweden1301 Posts
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hmunkey
United Kingdom1973 Posts
On December 14 2011 20:21 Executor1 wrote: they didnt event a rule, they applied a rule within their rules to something naniwa did. Im pretty sure nestea was offended, who wouldnt be. Naniwa doesnt have enough respect to even play out a gaame with him in a tournament hes being paid to play in ? (he got 900 dollars for last place i beleive) that aint bad for losing 4 games. Nope, they just made this rule up. | ||
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darkscream
Canada2310 Posts
Compare then to Idra who in spite of his reputation has always remained very professional at the GSL. | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
Personally, I think Naniwas behaviour wasn't disrespectful, only human, on the other way, Koreans think of the IMHO very fake and forced ceremonies as emotional and not disrespectful in the slightest or didn't think it's disrespectful towards Naniwa to revoke his Code S Spot or judge him very arbitrarily because he acted in a way that didn't suit their status-quo of how eSports is handled in Korea. This is nothing bad, it's just a different way of perceiving things and those cultural differences exist and are nothing bad, as long as you clearly define your rules and don't judge on what you might deem offensive or what fits into your description of "disrespectful". If eSport wants to become Global and if GSL wants to keep calling themselves Global starcraft 2 league, they really need to be more open and more acceptant of other cultures and how different ppl may react different in certain situations. I just can't possibly imagine how any1 could get upset about Nani throwing a game that had absolutely no consequence at all. If they had made some sort of contract though, that treated those games that didn't matter as friendly showmatches and paid him to perform and entertain the viewers, it would clearly be sth. very different. But afaik, it was a tournament: win or go home, give your best etc. - why bother playing when you've already been eliminated? | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:10 kickinhead wrote: If they want to be internationally accepted, they can't just presume that their judgment of certain actions and how they perceive different situations will be perceived in the same way by other people or the players themselves. The only way to be fair in such a situation is to very clearly define the rules in advance (for example what is exactly meant by "disrespectful" behaviour). Personally, I think Naniwas behaviour wasn't disrespectful, only human, on the other way, Koreans think of the IMHO very fake and forced ceremonies as emotional and not disrespectful in the slightest or didn't think it's disrespectful towards Naniwa to revoke his Code S Spot or judge him very arbitrarily because he acted in a way that didn't suit their status-quo of how eSports is handled in Korea. This is nothing bad, it's just a different way of perceiving things and those cultural differences exist and are nothing bad, as long as you clearly define your rules and don't judge on what you might deem offensive or what fits into your description of "disrespectful". This issue is 50/50 in the foreign scene, and like 95/5 in the korean scene. Please stop acting like everyone here feels what he did was okay, as most people think it was a stupid move by naniwa. | ||
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Azzur
Australia6253 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:06 skyrunner wrote: Funny how you bring up a real world and established sport in your first paragraph, then completely ignore that in your last paragraph. In real world sports the rules of conduct are very clear. Just as rules should be. That's the reason rules exist in the first place. Yes, sometimes it's up to interpretation and rules are more "open", but it is not good for rules to be unclear on purpose just so "we can do whatever we want". I would say it is pretty good if the players know what can or can't do, and what the punishment is when they break the rules. I never did ignore my last paragraph - earlier in this thread, someone gave an example of Davydenko (the tennis player) who was fined for apparently not trying in his match. I'm 100% sure there will be no explicit rule which regulates this kind of behaviour, rather something like not playing in the spirit of the game. In GOM's case, there was a rule that they may disqualify a player for showing disrespect to an opponent or the audience. GOM can't just do what they want, but in this case, the rules (which are worded openly) do allow them to do so. | ||
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ikona
Poland47 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:10 darkscream wrote: Have integrity or get kicked out. There really isn't any problems other than that. Naniwa with his sweedish 'i dont give a fuck' attitude won't get very far in the very respect and honour driven korea. Why the deceptive name then? AFAIK its not "Traditional Korean SL". Was it really necessary for Chae to insult Naniwa in the process? | ||
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Malkavian183
Turkey227 Posts
progaming is an entertainment business you are there as long as people want to watch you sponsors only give out money as long as you can draw people doing stunts like this is bad business. | ||
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
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Oktyabr
Singapore2234 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:13 ikona wrote: Why the deceptive name then? AFAIK its not "Traditional Korean SL" You don't need to be a traditional Korean to avoid behaving like that. How was that deceptive? | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:12 Itsmedudeman wrote: This issue is 50/50 in the foreign scene, and like 95/5 in the korean scene. Please stop acting like everyone here feels what he did was okay, as most people think it was a stupid move by naniwa. can you even read? I never said anything like that, but only pointed out cultural differences and differences in opinions and perception and the necessity to clearly define rules to prevent disasters like that... Srsly. learn to read man.... On the other Hand, what you throw at my face as generalizing what foreigners think about this incident, you yourself practice, even in the same sentence, before AND after you bash my comment. And obviously you can't even do simple math, cuz you first talk about this issue being 50/50 in the foreign scene and then state that "....as most people think it was a stupid move...." I mean? WTF? | ||
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purpose
Sweden1017 Posts
GOMTV the big company...you would expect more. I mean naniwa is a player who did what he did after a day of losses and frustration, you can understand that he did what he did. But he probe rushed, that GOMTV go out and call him that in the way the do, when they actually punish him is just horrible. GOMTV made a complet joke out of themself and that was just patetich. | ||
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radu_c
Romania226 Posts
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See.Blue
United States2673 Posts
Seriously, in light of everything thats happened in esports past, how people can not think throwing matches is going to be seen as a (justifiably) big deal is beyond me. Nani acts like a 12 year old, and as such lost his code S spot. I'm glad I don't have to deal with his personality next season bringing down the overall professionalism for the league. | ||
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rushian
United Kingdom568 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:15 Apophenic wrote: one of the things that can be said is what gom is running is an entertainment show and program. what naniwa did wasn't entertaining and a bad show. people are buying tickets to watch sc2 shows. not needless 'probe rushes' that ruin the audience experience. this may be interesting drama for a few times but GOMTV can't risk these kind of 'inconveniences' become a regular stuff. i think this rule or the decision to revoke naniwa's invitation is just correct. progaming is an entertainment business you are there as long as people want to watch you sponsors only give out money as long as you can draw people doing stunts like this is bad business. Nah, the entertainment thing isn't the point at all. It's about showing respect to your opponent and the tournament by trying your best in a match. It's not fully clear exactly what the punishment is, but I do agree with GOM that there had to be some kind of censure. Maybe putting him in the up+downs rather than Code S? On the other hand, I don't think GOM have handled this well by attacking him personally. They could have just said, he broke the rules, here's the rule, for this reason we're not seeding him into Code S. | ||
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