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Are GOMs arbitrary rules becoming a problem? - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
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aussiesanga
Profile Joined March 2011
Australia32 Posts
December 14 2011 12:26 GMT
#101
Sen got his place from WCG. So no favoritism.

Look i'm sure there's some loose 'Code of Conduct' that GOM has in place, which definitely needs to be set in stone with clear ramifications if players get out of hand. Plus they should actively work on briefing foreign players with these rules so they are clear that if they get out of hand these spots will not be handed out so freely.
SNARF
zeru
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
8156 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 12:29:16
December 14 2011 12:27 GMT
#102
--- Nuked ---
Kireak
Profile Joined March 2011
Sweden358 Posts
December 14 2011 12:27 GMT
#103
I have also thought about what the op wrote about the invites for code A and code S. They are just random. it could just as well be a team buying a spot from gom as it is, we dont know.
I wish they only had agreements with certain leagues if they want to seed people in. At least something that lets us know how they go about it.

Its the same shit with blizzard regionals. No one knows how players got invited. Some did, some didnt.
NHY
Profile Joined October 2010
1013 Posts
December 14 2011 12:27 GMT
#104
On December 14 2011 21:14 Soma.bokforlag wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:10 NHY wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:07 zeru wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:05 iky43210 wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:03 Eury wrote:
It is bad when you wish for KeSPA back. Hopefully if the BW stars switches over it would most likely mean that GOMTV's monopoly in Korea has ended, if they don't, well, SC2 will die in Korea and GSL with it. Good riddance to the latter.


what? if it was Kespa, Naniwa would've been banned for life.

It's more about that Kespa has the rules written down and don't keep making things up for everything, which this thread is about. If there had been rules which naniwa broke i dont think anyone would actually be on naniwas side of what he did.


There is a rule. Basically, you are supposed to be professional.


do you really buy that? "you are supposed to be professional"? what does that entail? if players do sloppy plays and miss micro because the game doesnt matter, isnt that unprofessional? this is such a fine line, you might as well have a rule "players have to be 100% motivated for every game, otherwise you may at any point be banned from the league for being considered unprofessional"


I know It is vague, just like everything else in real life.
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
December 14 2011 12:28 GMT
#105
It's sad because if Naniwa knew it would have been such a mess, he probably would just 4gate him and lose in 5 more minutes without consequences. -_-
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
Biane
Profile Joined April 2011
Australia645 Posts
December 14 2011 12:30 GMT
#106
On December 14 2011 21:28 Noocta wrote:
It's sad because if Naniwa knew it would have been such a mess, he probably would just 4gate him and lose in 5 more minutes without consequences. -_-


Naniwa has lived there for quite a while so I don't feel that ignorance is an excuse for Naniwa, but yes I do agree that if he knew it'd come to this, he would have just 4 gated.
gregnog
Profile Joined December 2010
United States289 Posts
December 14 2011 12:30 GMT
#107
On December 14 2011 21:27 NHY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:14 Soma.bokforlag wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:10 NHY wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:07 zeru wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:05 iky43210 wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:03 Eury wrote:
It is bad when you wish for KeSPA back. Hopefully if the BW stars switches over it would most likely mean that GOMTV's monopoly in Korea has ended, if they don't, well, SC2 will die in Korea and GSL with it. Good riddance to the latter.


what? if it was Kespa, Naniwa would've been banned for life.

It's more about that Kespa has the rules written down and don't keep making things up for everything, which this thread is about. If there had been rules which naniwa broke i dont think anyone would actually be on naniwas side of what he did.


There is a rule. Basically, you are supposed to be professional.


do you really buy that? "you are supposed to be professional"? what does that entail? if players do sloppy plays and miss micro because the game doesnt matter, isnt that unprofessional? this is such a fine line, you might as well have a rule "players have to be 100% motivated for every game, otherwise you may at any point be banned from the league for being considered unprofessional"


I know It is vague, just like everything else in real life.


Which causes massive uproars.... protests....

Indefinite detention act...?
StUfF
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia1437 Posts
December 14 2011 12:34 GMT
#108
On December 14 2011 21:27 zeru wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:21 Azzur wrote:
However, yeah, not turning up for group selection, banned for 2 seasons seem so extreme. I think the rules GOM has is not illogical however, the punishments they give out never seem to fit the crime.

rain got a ban for calling GOM the same day group selections were telling them he is giving up his code S spot since they couldnt replace him. yet idra wasnt replaced either when he left. a bit different situations yet similar at the same time, but opposite reactions to them.


Idra gave them many weeks prior notice. They even had time to create a going away video. There is a world of difference here.
zeru
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
8156 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 12:37:39
December 14 2011 12:35 GMT
#109
--- Nuked ---
Soma.bokforlag
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden448 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 12:37:49
December 14 2011 12:36 GMT
#110
On December 14 2011 21:26 aussiesanga wrote:
Sen got his place from WCG. So no favoritism.

Look i'm sure there's some loose 'Code of Conduct' that GOM has in place, which definitely needs to be set in stone with clear ramifications if players get out of hand. Plus they should actively work on briefing foreign players with these rules so they are clear that if they get out of hand these spots will not be handed out so freely.


what? seriously?

finishing 4th in the first group segment, placing someting like place 30 out of 56 players gives you a free seed to code s?!

edit. sorry. you were probably ironic? internet is hard
Zanno
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States1484 Posts
December 14 2011 12:39 GMT
#111
On December 14 2011 21:26 ooni wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:21 Azzur wrote:
GOM doesn't just make arbitrary rules:
- Choya was banned from the GSTL for playing rock-scissors-paper on the Blizzard ladder.
- Rain was banned from GSL for 2 seasons.
- Coca forfeited his Code S spot.

The punishment was harsh, yes, but it shows that GOM will not tolerate poor behaviour.

Coca was not forced to do it.

However, yeah, not turning up for group selection, banned for 2 seasons seem so extreme. I think the rules GOM has is not illogical however, the punishments they give out never seem to fit the crime.

I don't really think Rain should be a factor in this discussion at all

The whole Rain situation was akin to slamming the door on your ex as she's walking out it

You know she's never coming back anyway but you're just trying to make a statement

aaaaa
VL-Orion
Profile Joined April 2011
Indonesia78 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 12:45:39
December 14 2011 12:45 GMT
#112
for the love of god , I really wish that i don't have to post in regard of this matter but i felt like i need to reiterate this comment "professional gamer, being required to be professional".
Even MC knew that what Naniwa did is messed up.

For all of you who says that is hypocritical of GOM and some players, I really wonder how old you guys are and have you even ever hold a job.

When its your job its sometime sucked BUT YOU DO IT ANYWAY.

Please grow up and realize that what GOMtv doing is to punish a behavior that they deemed "unprofessional"
is it "arbitary'? yes
and GUESS WHAT it always arbitrary even in the justice system get a shitty judge and you are screwed

Making rules whenever they want? that's what you(government cooperation, ect) DO when there is no rule but you felt that there is a need to be one , MOST LAW ARE PASSED THIS WAY

Please understand how the real world works.
"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers"
gregnog
Profile Joined December 2010
United States289 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 12:47:20
December 14 2011 12:45 GMT
#113
Just as a comparison... how often do you hear of MLG making a controversial decision? How many times has Sundance bashed on a player? How many players question MLG's rules?

The only thing that comes to mind is when Catz was auto forfeited when he was 10 minutes late for his match. Maybe when they were thinking of having MLG jerseys.... open bracket is kind of grueling...

It just seems silly. Obviously GOM has control issues.
vthree
Profile Joined November 2011
Hong Kong8039 Posts
December 14 2011 12:45 GMT
#114
As far as I know, the invites were always up to GOM. And as for criteria, many tournaments have invites where there is no clear cut requirement. MLG has korean invites, IEM, Dreamhack, Homestory... Actually, there aren't that many major tournaments which have NO invites at all. And there is no points system where the highest rank players get invited.

nihlon
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden5581 Posts
December 14 2011 12:47 GMT
#115
On December 14 2011 21:27 NHY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:14 Soma.bokforlag wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:10 NHY wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:07 zeru wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:05 iky43210 wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:03 Eury wrote:
It is bad when you wish for KeSPA back. Hopefully if the BW stars switches over it would most likely mean that GOMTV's monopoly in Korea has ended, if they don't, well, SC2 will die in Korea and GSL with it. Good riddance to the latter.


what? if it was Kespa, Naniwa would've been banned for life.

It's more about that Kespa has the rules written down and don't keep making things up for everything, which this thread is about. If there had been rules which naniwa broke i dont think anyone would actually be on naniwas side of what he did.


There is a rule. Basically, you are supposed to be professional.


do you really buy that? "you are supposed to be professional"? what does that entail? if players do sloppy plays and miss micro because the game doesnt matter, isnt that unprofessional? this is such a fine line, you might as well have a rule "players have to be 100% motivated for every game, otherwise you may at any point be banned from the league for being considered unprofessional"


I know It is vague, just like everything else in real life.


Actually most sports have pretty extensive and indepth rules as to what is or isn't allowed in game. Some rules might be open to interpetation but its usually pretty clear cut. "Being a professional" is not.
Banelings are too cute to blow up
vthree
Profile Joined November 2011
Hong Kong8039 Posts
December 14 2011 12:47 GMT
#116
"How many players question MLG's rules/tournament structure?"

lol, there were SO many complaints are the seeding for the Providence tournament... IMMVP didn't get in eventhough he was a champion and so forth...
Azzur
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia6267 Posts
December 14 2011 12:48 GMT
#117
On December 14 2011 21:27 zeru wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:21 Azzur wrote:
GOM doesn't just make arbitrary rules:
- Choya was banned from the GSTL for playing rock-scissors-paper on the Blizzard ladder.
- Rain was banned from GSL for 2 seasons.
- Coca forfeited his Code S spot.

The punishment was harsh, yes, but it shows that GOM will not tolerate poor behaviour.

Thats the definition of arbitrary. They do things suddenly whatever way they feel is right instead of doing what the rules say (because they dont have good rules written down) such as random code A/S invites to popular players instead of players who deserve it. They should establish a system and rules and regulation instead of having arbitrary made up on the fly "rules"
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:26 ooni wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:21 Azzur wrote:
GOM doesn't just make arbitrary rules:
- Choya was banned from the GSTL for playing rock-scissors-paper on the Blizzard ladder.
- Rain was banned from GSL for 2 seasons.
- Coca forfeited his Code S spot.

The punishment was harsh, yes, but it shows that GOM will not tolerate poor behaviour.

Coca was not forced to do it.

However, yeah, not turning up for group selection, banned for 2 seasons seem so extreme. I think the rules GOM has is not illogical however, the punishments they give out never seem to fit the crime.

rain got a ban for calling GOM the same day group selections were telling them he is giving up his code S spot since they couldnt replace him. yet idra wasnt replaced either when he left. a bit different situations yet similar at the same time, but opposite reactions to them.

Tennis tournaments have wildcards and no one complains. Western sporting events have also meted out punishment for players that show poor behaviour. Imagine a tennis tournament where a player just flat out refuses to play - I don't think that will go down too well.

Actually, I just feel sorry for Naniwa because if he just did some half-arsed attempt (e.g. proxy 2-gate, 4-gate or cannon rushed), this backlash wouldn't have happened. You can blame his poor social skills and a lack of understanding on how the world works for this.
gregnog
Profile Joined December 2010
United States289 Posts
December 14 2011 12:49 GMT
#118
On December 14 2011 21:47 vthree wrote:
"How many players question MLG's rules/tournament structure?"

lol, there were SO many complaints are the seeding for the Providence tournament... IMMVP didn't get in eventhough he was a champion and so forth...


Compelling argument.
theBizness
Profile Joined July 2011
United States696 Posts
December 14 2011 12:50 GMT
#119
When KESPA comes through, people are going to be begging for the generous graces of GOM.
Less money for casters, more money for players.
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
December 14 2011 12:51 GMT
#120
Yeah, GOM doesn't need to be like Kespa and have strict rules that can only hurt players. Just use common sense, jesus. This happened because it was naniwa in the booth, not because it was an unfortunate accident. I think people know deep down that what naniwa did was wrong, but they don't want to admit it so they try and find loopholes to set him free.
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