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Please discuss IdrA and Sen in Code S January in this thread. |
On December 14 2011 19:41 Polarexia wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:39 Grettin wrote:On December 14 2011 19:37 Polarexia wrote:
When Mr. Chae said that bullshit about wanting "progamers" and not prize money hunters or whatever did he ever bother to look into why Stephano is playing? Every Pro-gamer plays this game for the money, it's not just Stephano. I think the "prize money hunter" -term is a either misleading or incorrectly translated. At least Stephano would have played his match in Naniwas situation. Pretty sure about that. What's the difference between this and what Naniwa did? The fact that it was longer than a minute? Why should that matter?
I don't see anyone worker attack in that video, do you? And that match is not played in the GSL so its irrelevant..
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950 Posts
On December 14 2011 19:45 Qaatar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:42 KiNGxXx wrote:On December 14 2011 19:40 poorcloud wrote:On December 14 2011 19:38 Angelbelow wrote:Huks Twitter for some perspective if it was a korean player, they would be out of gsl for months, kicked out of team house, and etc. is he perma baned or just this season? http://twitter.com/#!/LorangerChris Hope this stops all the stupid racist comments that are made. Because HuK is always right, right? LOL And with this statement he says GOM are racists because they deal different with koreans and foreigners. Then they've already been "racist" a long time ago with giving preferential treatment to foreigners in free seedings and placements. Stop with this racist bullshit. There's nothing racist going on here.
They give those because foreigner viewers can dish out 200$ in one year on gsl passes.
But, i agree, there is no racism here.
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''T/N : When GOM announced the new format of GSL tour 2012. They planned out total 2 seeds to Code S and 2 seeds to Code A. Two seeds are sponsor seeds which are given to Idra and Sen. Two seeds are up/down seeds that will be given out to top performing non-Korea players. Therefore Idra and Sen did not suddenly get in that Naniwa's punishment is a separate issue.''
This guys!!
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On December 14 2011 19:39 Lior wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:37 Serpico wrote:On December 14 2011 19:37 Lior wrote:On December 14 2011 19:31 BloodThirsty wrote:On December 14 2011 19:28 Redox wrote:On December 14 2011 19:26 BloodThirsty wrote:On December 14 2011 19:05 Blardy wrote:On December 14 2011 18:56 Confuse wrote:
To all the people announcing you won't pay for GSL anymore: There are probably more viewers who were offended enough by what Nani did to say the same thing if he was still invited. It was probably a correct business decision. With that said, strict professionalism in BW (as ridiculous as it was) worked, I'm sure some discipline won't hurt the SC2 community. I just can't comprehend how someone could be offended by the Naniwa vs Nestea game. because you don't care enough about the sc2 esports growing potential is why you dont understand, if you did you would be offended. He needs to grow up and when invited to one of the biggest tournaments of the year. YOU PLAY YOUR HEART OUT NO MATTER WHAT. If hes not punished then he possibly could do it again in something to do with code s if he goes down 1-0 he just throws the match because he wants to go home and cry There are numerous examples of people NOT playing their heart out no matter what in high profile tournemants. This includes Idra btw, who has just been invited for unclear reasons into code S. BECAUSE you are being completely IGNORANT to the korean culture and pro gaming. They CANNOT show weakness on this issue with the background issues they have had lately in the industry. Pro gaming is a SPORT in korea its televised, its still growing, THEY are trying to still GET fans from brood war to come over to Sc2 and dont need some little brat not even giving them a show to get fans to pay for PRIZES that naniwa needs to even have anything to play for. So...why haven't they taken action against Choya, Byun or Coca? Who have done far worse things than Nani? Please do explain, since you know so much about Korean culture. Probably because what naniwa did was more visible even if it was much less severe than what choya did (purposefully cheating the system). Oh, so it's ok to do it if fewer people notice? Go GOM.
Because none of what they did happened in the GSL? The only punishment that GOM could give Coca was already given by the Slayers house, and Byun wasn't even in the GSL. Choya got banned for 1 season in the GSL when his actions didn't even affect the GSL, if anything, GOM was unduly way more harsh on Choya than Naniwa.
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... I think people are again confusing separate issues.
1) It's up to the team to give additional penalties. Huk writing that they would get kicked out of team house etc ... maybe sure but that's the right of the team. They can do whatever they want.
2) GOM has previously punished childish and immature behavior (Choya) by ban of 1 season (next tournament). They did the exact same thing with Naniwa for pretty much the same behavior (childish and immature).
If anything, that's being consistent and fair.
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On December 14 2011 19:39 Grettin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:37 Polarexia wrote:
When Mr. Chae said that bullshit about wanting "progamers" and not prize money hunters or whatever did he ever bother to look into why Stephano is playing? Every Pro-gamer plays this game for the money, it's not just Stephano. I think the "prize money hunter" -term is a either misleading or incorrectly translated. At least Stephano would have played his match in Naniwas situation. Pretty sure about that.
No dude Korean's play this game all for nobility and respect. I mean, haven't you heard, respect and professionalism are like so huge in Korea it's all that matters to them. In Korea, a special form of respect is to manner mule the shit out of your opponent every game, or manner nexus your opponent, or slash dance your units right before victory. And professionalism in Korea, unlike in the West where it means playing for money, means the exact opposite. Naniwa was like, being totally disrespectful of their culture and stuff.
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Idra's seems fine. I don't know who else would have been appropriate to fill the spot. A foreigner is kicked out so another foreigner who previously gave their code S up is re-added. I don't really understand the Sen move though.
Still stupid how naniwa was kicked out though. But they can't really go back on it after inviting idra and sen now can they? it would be unprofessional.
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Man reminds me of the IdrA leaving vid that they made LOL
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On December 14 2011 19:44 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:41 Lior wrote:On December 14 2011 19:40 aebriol wrote:On December 14 2011 19:37 Serpico wrote:On December 14 2011 19:37 Lior wrote:On December 14 2011 19:31 BloodThirsty wrote:On December 14 2011 19:28 Redox wrote:On December 14 2011 19:26 BloodThirsty wrote:On December 14 2011 19:05 Blardy wrote:On December 14 2011 18:56 Confuse wrote:
To all the people announcing you won't pay for GSL anymore: There are probably more viewers who were offended enough by what Nani did to say the same thing if he was still invited. It was probably a correct business decision. With that said, strict professionalism in BW (as ridiculous as it was) worked, I'm sure some discipline won't hurt the SC2 community. I just can't comprehend how someone could be offended by the Naniwa vs Nestea game. because you don't care enough about the sc2 esports growing potential is why you dont understand, if you did you would be offended. He needs to grow up and when invited to one of the biggest tournaments of the year. YOU PLAY YOUR HEART OUT NO MATTER WHAT. If hes not punished then he possibly could do it again in something to do with code s if he goes down 1-0 he just throws the match because he wants to go home and cry There are numerous examples of people NOT playing their heart out no matter what in high profile tournemants. This includes Idra btw, who has just been invited for unclear reasons into code S. BECAUSE you are being completely IGNORANT to the korean culture and pro gaming. They CANNOT show weakness on this issue with the background issues they have had lately in the industry. Pro gaming is a SPORT in korea its televised, its still growing, THEY are trying to still GET fans from brood war to come over to Sc2 and dont need some little brat not even giving them a show to get fans to pay for PRIZES that naniwa needs to even have anything to play for. So...why haven't they taken action against Choya, Byun or Coca? Who have done far worse things than Nani? Please do explain, since you know so much about Korean culture. Probably because what naniwa did was more visible even if it was much less severe than what choya did (purposefully cheating the system). I'd argue that what Choya did wasn't purposefully cheating the system, it was childish and immature and him thinking it was perfectly fine at that time because he didn't do anything but make sure he got placed where the actual system meant for him to be (skill wise), and it was just meaningless ladder (as we all refer to it). Much like I think what Naniwa did was childish and immature. I'd argue that ladder actually has more meaning than that game did. I'd argue against you because of: a) Hyped storyline b) Tons of viewers tuning in for that scheduled match c) GSL points being on the line d) Determining the loser of the group. I probably missed something just because I've had to write it so many times.
And what Choya did was to influence his qualification into GSL. Same for the Coca/Byun incident. You think this is worse than what can be pretty much considered match fixing? In both cases? What was basically a meaningless game that was either a 4 gate, nexus first or probe rush? Wow.
If Gom bans Nani for this, I expect EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO CHEESES TO BE BANNED FROM NOW ON.
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DUDE SO SICK YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!
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On December 14 2011 19:45 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:42 Ace.Xile wrote:On December 14 2011 19:38 aebriol wrote:On December 14 2011 19:35 Ace.Xile wrote:On December 14 2011 19:32 poorcloud wrote:On December 14 2011 19:26 Ace.Xile wrote:On December 14 2011 19:23 Ghanburighan wrote:On December 14 2011 19:20 Serpico wrote:On December 14 2011 19:19 Grettin wrote:
"During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours." - Wolf @ Twitter I dont see probe rushes to be "abusive." And I see you as a selfish egotist that will probably bring about armageddon single-handedly. That doesn't make it so. There was a huge backlash, both in Korea and the foreigner scene. Your single opinion doesn't negate that fact. I'm kind of curious, do people like you expect players to just start putting on shows, and instead of being actual professionals becoming purely entertainers. Common sense would say that there was really nothing to gain from the game with nestea, so people essentially are pissed because Naniwa didn't see the point as just trying to go out and act like the game mattered, at what point are people going to realize they're just treading the line before playing a game professionally to compete, and playing a game to just entertain people despite it's lack of significance. So we should not expect F1 drivers to not bother to race on the last day of the race if it dosen't matter anymore? So the driver is justified in just leaving after the first lap of the race since he dosen't feel like it? I don't understand why everyone says its the tournaments fault for having meaningless games when EVERY PROFESSIONAL SPORTS LEAGUE IN THE WORLD has such meaningless games. All of us want E-sports to be considered legitimate. To make it professional, you have to enforce such rules. Harsh for Naniwa though, a warning would have been good enough. Some players may not like the format. You give proper feedback, not throw away the game... But there's nothing professional about an organization saying that if you don't try 100% in every game despite the fact that it may be meaningless, we will ban you from our organization. That type of format is just pretty much forcing players to cater to viewers in situations like the naniwa nestea one, and actually pretty much pushing them in the direction of providing entertainment rather than competition. If the game is pointless, you're pretty much forced to attempt some sort of resemblance of a game, and at this point it becomes more forced acting rather than competitive play. If a national team refused to play a match in the world cup in soccer because 'we are already out' I guarantee that they would be punished. Or in the premier league. Or in any decent sized sport. There's a complete difference between what naniwa did and what you're suggesting. Naniwa showed up for the game, he started the game he did a horrible strat that he likely didn't think would win, but in the end it didn't matter. If Naniwa just straight up and refused to play it would be different even then, it still asks the argument. Yes they might be punished but it creates the argument and question, do these leagues and often times sports create situations where they force someone into an almost entertainment role or face some sort of punishment, which is almost anti competitiveness. The equivalent of this for hockey would be pulling your goalie and not moving from the initial faceoff circle, letting them score at will for 60 minutes. Yah... theyd be fined to hell
I think the general idea would be in hockey, starting the game letting them score the first goal and then forfeiting. Yes they'd be fined to hell, but i just think it's silly that people want to force people to entertain in a competition. It's an odd mockery of competition in itself. You can't really have both in a pure sense, you're either catering to the audience in the form of entertainment, or your competiting. Yes competition can be entertaining, but you can't be catering to an audience while being competitive at the same time. Nestea vs. Nani in that situation is hardly considered competition, there's nothing at stake to compete over, it's just pretty much that Gom wanted Nani to make some epic game, and he didn't see the point in being an entertainer when his job is to be a professional gamer, there was no real competitive incentive to win the game. Cool he could have beat Nestea but in the grandscheme it meant nothing from a competitive standpoint. It's just at the end of the day that Gom is essentially kicking him out because he failed to become an entertainer in light of the fact that there was no real competition in the match.
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On December 14 2011 19:48 Oktyabr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:39 Lior wrote:On December 14 2011 19:37 Serpico wrote:On December 14 2011 19:37 Lior wrote:On December 14 2011 19:31 BloodThirsty wrote:On December 14 2011 19:28 Redox wrote:On December 14 2011 19:26 BloodThirsty wrote:On December 14 2011 19:05 Blardy wrote:On December 14 2011 18:56 Confuse wrote:
To all the people announcing you won't pay for GSL anymore: There are probably more viewers who were offended enough by what Nani did to say the same thing if he was still invited. It was probably a correct business decision. With that said, strict professionalism in BW (as ridiculous as it was) worked, I'm sure some discipline won't hurt the SC2 community. I just can't comprehend how someone could be offended by the Naniwa vs Nestea game. because you don't care enough about the sc2 esports growing potential is why you dont understand, if you did you would be offended. He needs to grow up and when invited to one of the biggest tournaments of the year. YOU PLAY YOUR HEART OUT NO MATTER WHAT. If hes not punished then he possibly could do it again in something to do with code s if he goes down 1-0 he just throws the match because he wants to go home and cry There are numerous examples of people NOT playing their heart out no matter what in high profile tournemants. This includes Idra btw, who has just been invited for unclear reasons into code S. BECAUSE you are being completely IGNORANT to the korean culture and pro gaming. They CANNOT show weakness on this issue with the background issues they have had lately in the industry. Pro gaming is a SPORT in korea its televised, its still growing, THEY are trying to still GET fans from brood war to come over to Sc2 and dont need some little brat not even giving them a show to get fans to pay for PRIZES that naniwa needs to even have anything to play for. So...why haven't they taken action against Choya, Byun or Coca? Who have done far worse things than Nani? Please do explain, since you know so much about Korean culture. Probably because what naniwa did was more visible even if it was much less severe than what choya did (purposefully cheating the system). Oh, so it's ok to do it if fewer people notice? Go GOM. Because none of what they did happened in the GSL? The only punishment that GOM could give Coca was already given by the Slayers house, and Byun wasn't even in the GSL. Choya got banned for 1 season in the GSL when his actions didn't even affect the GSL, if anything, GOM was unduly way more harsh on Choya than Naniwa.
It affected the qualification system for the GSL, this matters way more for the GSL than what Nani did. Read up, understand the issues, then you can talk, until then, please stop posting misinformation.
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On December 14 2011 19:49 Corrosive wrote:
Idra's seems fine. I don't know who else would have been appropriate to fill the spot. A foreigner is kicked out so another foreigner who previously gave their code S up is re-added. I don't really understand the Sen move though.
Still stupid how naniwa was kicked out though. But they can't really go back on it after inviting idra and sen now can they? it would be unprofessional.
He didnt earn it did he and niether did Sen. Think for a sec
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On December 14 2011 19:49 Lior wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:44 Ghanburighan wrote:On December 14 2011 19:41 Lior wrote:On December 14 2011 19:40 aebriol wrote:On December 14 2011 19:37 Serpico wrote:On December 14 2011 19:37 Lior wrote:On December 14 2011 19:31 BloodThirsty wrote:On December 14 2011 19:28 Redox wrote:On December 14 2011 19:26 BloodThirsty wrote:On December 14 2011 19:05 Blardy wrote:
[quote]
I just can't comprehend how someone could be offended by the Naniwa vs Nestea game.
because you don't care enough about the sc2 esports growing potential is why you dont understand, if you did you would be offended. He needs to grow up and when invited to one of the biggest tournaments of the year. YOU PLAY YOUR HEART OUT NO MATTER WHAT. If hes not punished then he possibly could do it again in something to do with code s if he goes down 1-0 he just throws the match because he wants to go home and cry There are numerous examples of people NOT playing their heart out no matter what in high profile tournemants. This includes Idra btw, who has just been invited for unclear reasons into code S. BECAUSE you are being completely IGNORANT to the korean culture and pro gaming. They CANNOT show weakness on this issue with the background issues they have had lately in the industry. Pro gaming is a SPORT in korea its televised, its still growing, THEY are trying to still GET fans from brood war to come over to Sc2 and dont need some little brat not even giving them a show to get fans to pay for PRIZES that naniwa needs to even have anything to play for. So...why haven't they taken action against Choya, Byun or Coca? Who have done far worse things than Nani? Please do explain, since you know so much about Korean culture. Probably because what naniwa did was more visible even if it was much less severe than what choya did (purposefully cheating the system). I'd argue that what Choya did wasn't purposefully cheating the system, it was childish and immature and him thinking it was perfectly fine at that time because he didn't do anything but make sure he got placed where the actual system meant for him to be (skill wise), and it was just meaningless ladder (as we all refer to it). Much like I think what Naniwa did was childish and immature. I'd argue that ladder actually has more meaning than that game did. I'd argue against you because of: a) Hyped storyline b) Tons of viewers tuning in for that scheduled match c) GSL points being on the line d) Determining the loser of the group. I probably missed something just because I've had to write it so many times. And what Choya did was to influence his qualification into GSL. Same for the Coca/Byun incident. You think this is worse than what can be pretty much considered match fixing? In both cases? What was basically a meaningless game that was either a 4 gate, nexus first or probe rush? Wow. If Gom bans Nani for this, I expect EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO CHEESES TO BE BANNED FROM NOW ON.
There's a difference between cheese and worker rush. Cheese has a chance to win. Worker rush does not. Only way worker rush wins is if your opponent is lower than bronze.
I agree with Naniwa's ban. GOM has banned people for childish and immature behavior with a 1 season ban before. I don't agree with the public humiliation of Naniwa by Mr. Chae and I don't agree with Idra and Sen invite as it's completely undeserved.
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On December 14 2011 19:48 aebriol wrote:
... I think people are again confusing separate issues.
1) It's up to the team to give additional penalties. Huk writing that they would get kicked out of team house etc ... maybe sure but that's the right of the team. They can do whatever they want.
2) GOM has previously punished childish and immature behavior (Choya) by ban of 1 season (next tournament). They did the exact same thing with Naniwa for pretty much the same behavior (childish and immature).
If anything, that's being consistent and fair.
Choya 100% cheated the GSL system if i remembe and was subsequently banned from GSTL
Naniwa doesn't care about a meaningless game and gets banned from GSL. They are two entirely different things.
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On December 14 2011 19:49 Lior wrote:
If Gom bans Nani for this, I expect EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO CHEESES TO BE BANNED FROM NOW ON.
... even if they win the matches? How stupid are you? Does all caps make it smarter?
What Naniwa did wasn't a cheese, it was a forfeit. There's a difference.
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On December 14 2011 19:53 aebriol wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:49 Lior wrote:
If Gom bans Nani for this, I expect EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO CHEESES TO BE BANNED FROM NOW ON.
... even if they win the matches? How stupid are you? Does all caps make it smarter? What Naniwa did wasn't a cheese, it was a forfeit. There's a difference.
The point is, they aren't trying their 'hardest'.
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On December 14 2011 19:52 Ace.Xile wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:48 aebriol wrote:
... I think people are again confusing separate issues.
1) It's up to the team to give additional penalties. Huk writing that they would get kicked out of team house etc ... maybe sure but that's the right of the team. They can do whatever they want.
2) GOM has previously punished childish and immature behavior (Choya) by ban of 1 season (next tournament). They did the exact same thing with Naniwa for pretty much the same behavior (childish and immature).
If anything, that's being consistent and fair. Choya 100% cheated the GSL system if i remembe and was subsequently banned from GSTL Naniwa doesn't care about a meaningless game and gets banned from GSL. They are two entirely different things.
He didn't need to cheat to get into the GSL. The ladder incident was in Janurary and he was in the GSL all the way until May when he got knocked out,.
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What a joke giving the spot to someone like IdrA. Not only is Idra playing horrible bad lately but he is also so bad mannered and racist that i don't see why GOM would give the spot to him.
GOM quickly turning out to be the bigger joke between Kespa and GOM
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93
EPT
