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Please discuss IdrA and Sen in Code S January in this thread. |
Go Idra I'm so happy to see him in code S the man is my favorite player.
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On December 14 2011 19:03 zestzorb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:02 Hopelessnoob wrote:On December 14 2011 18:54 HOTSLocusT wrote:On December 14 2011 18:33 Hopelessnoob wrote:
Gom giving out free code S without a competition
players like Hero/Puma/sase have to qualify while sen which has 0 acheivements at MLG or GSL gets in code S without a reason.
A small case can be made for Idra as he did well in MLG
And Naniwa which qualified and just due to a probe rush has lost his GSL spot... In the future no cannon rush/4gate/6pool can be done as it is inappropriate and has too low chance of winning?? WTF GOM...
Koreans take their SC as a very serious sport/entertainment. Nani pretty much spat in their face. We still view it differently cause its not as serious a sport to us yet. Different culters \(-.-)/ Lets say a scenario whereby in the old GOM format whereby there could be a match for 1st and 2nd seeds for the group. If you win you play MVP if you lose you play me (a scrub). Then you 7 pool against Nestea because you feel you can never win unless you get an advantage. You wtill lose because Nestea is a god and then GSL tells you hey you threw that match, you are disqualified) is that deserved? This could happen because GOM shows they can ban anyone. In many competitions such as in WCG (according to SOTG), there were people throwing games to choose their opponents and they are not eliminated. NaNi threw the game and there was NO gain for him but he was banned. Your rebuttal may be that it is not in the rules but in the GSL rules, HERE throwing matches are also not in the rules. Hence i feel that banning NaNi is a very bad choice Eligibility ... - GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer. The rule is pretty clear-cut to me
Yes Gom can do w.e. they want, that's not the argument. The bigger question is why does naniwa get banned and his spot taken away for not trying his hardest in a game that didn't matter, when people like byun, coca, choya, who either cheat or match fix, are only dealt with by slaps on the wrist (gstl ban) or team action and not Gom action. Gom could have banned all 3 of them from GSL just because, but they didn't and for some reason Naniwa for an arguably much lesser offense.
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when in rome do as the romans do
what is so difficult about this concept? you know Korean takes BM incredibly seriously, and doing that on live TV is a public spit in the face.
He action deserves the punishment
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37044 Posts
On December 14 2011 19:05 jarod wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 18:57 KiNGxXx wrote:On December 14 2011 18:53 Seeker wrote:From This thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294711T/N : When GOM announced the new format of GSL tour 2012. They planned out total 2 seeds to Code S and 2 seeds to Code A. Two seeds are sponsor seeds which are given to Idra and Sen. Two seeds are up/down seeds that will be given out to top performing non-Korea players. Therefore Idra and Sen did not suddenly get in that Naniwa's punishment is a separate[ issue. You are wrong my friend. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_January/Code_SThere are 2 spots for code S. And one of them was MLG seed. So only one left. 2 options -> Idra got the other code S spot and Sen is taking Naniwas place (cause of ban) Idra got the code S spot and Sen got the spot from MVPsC has medical issues (kinda unfair regarding code A players) Non of the above solutions are the best... Thoughts on this?
Never said that statement was from me
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United States17423 Posts
On December 14 2011 19:07 phyren wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 18:57 blade55555 wrote:On December 14 2011 18:56 bgx wrote:On December 14 2011 18:53 blade55555 wrote:On December 14 2011 18:52 bgx wrote:On December 14 2011 18:47 mordk wrote:GOM have secured one buyer in me. Some will leave, some will join  yes we get it its business, to bad the "competition" part is lagging GOM needs to step up their game otherwise they will never be seen as something even near OSL prestige when everyone included JD/Flash/Bisu have to earn their spots not given out on silver plate because they are "popular". It may sound like Korean Esports is really in a bad spot right now, if they have to turn their backs on equality/fairness and promote popularity. Actually unless I am mistaken if you are top 8? You get seeded directly into the next OSL. I could be wrong but I remember jaedong not having to qualify for an OSL (might have been MSL) for a long time due to how far he made it each time. and how do you think top8 or even top16 is considered free, when its the most stacked tournament? I never said it was free, but you made it sound like Flash/JD have to re qualify every time. That is what I read from your post and I didn't want anyone thinking that when if you place top 8 or something you don't have to qualify from the bottom again. I know this is a minor detail, but I'm pretty sure it is top 4. MSL seeded more players. This is part of why the OSL had so few repeat champions and was considered so prestigious.
Yeah like I said I can't remember I just know it was either top 4 or 8  .
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On December 14 2011 19:05 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:05 baoluvboa wrote:On December 14 2011 19:04 Redox wrote:On December 14 2011 19:02 Deshkar wrote:On December 14 2011 18:58 dtz wrote:I think technically, GOM has the right to ban Naniwa. From the original GSL thread http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141496
Eligibility
- You must be at least 12 years old.
- You must have your own Battle.net account.
- You must fill out the registration form on the website.
- You must be able to participate in the offline preliminaries.
- GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer.
So i guess GOM has deemed someone who do not give their best in all games to be unfit to be a gamer. This is also the rule that prevent Saviour and co from joining GSL. Interesting. I see a clash of asian cultures vs western ones again. For every viewer that turns away from the GSL , I pretty sure another like me, would stick to it even more. I value professionalism a lot and maybe cos I'm an asian as well , who knows. On another note, the two foreign spots are present in this current format of the GSL, so it's nothing unexpected. Clash of cultures? It is just about money. Idra gives GOM more viewers than Naniwa. Hence they made a business decision. Naniwa's spot has nothing to do with Idra. Idra is getting a separate spot. And still Idra only gets the spot because he generates viwers.
But it negates your argument that they wanted more viewers by banning naniwa for idra. And plenty of tournaments do this on top of qualification rounds, not just Gom.
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On December 14 2011 19:05 Jibba wrote:That is the most ridiculous rule ever.
Agree. It is ridiculous not because it is not right, but because they can construe it into ANYTHING they want. The Proper and Necessary Clause of the SC2 scene if you will.
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On December 14 2011 19:06 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:06 Lorizean wrote:
Did Naniwa ever receive a Code S spot?
I mean, he got seeded into Code A and lost the first match.
The format of GSL says there are seeds for Code A, Code S and Up/Down. Who gets what? MLG providence he got a code S spot.
So thats one of the 2 Code S seeds provided in the format.
Now that Sen and IdrA both get Code S, one of them effectively replaced Naniwa, right?
And there will be some more people getting seeds for Code A and Up/Down.
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On December 14 2011 19:05 Jibba wrote:That is the most ridiculous rule ever.
It might sound that way to us gamers, but its in just about every sport. Many examples can be found where athletes do something detrimental enough to be suspended or fined (basically some form of punishment) from their respective leagues.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37044 Posts
On December 14 2011 19:07 Ace.Xile wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:03 zestzorb wrote:On December 14 2011 19:02 Hopelessnoob wrote:On December 14 2011 18:54 HOTSLocusT wrote:On December 14 2011 18:33 Hopelessnoob wrote:
Gom giving out free code S without a competition
players like Hero/Puma/sase have to qualify while sen which has 0 acheivements at MLG or GSL gets in code S without a reason.
A small case can be made for Idra as he did well in MLG
And Naniwa which qualified and just due to a probe rush has lost his GSL spot... In the future no cannon rush/4gate/6pool can be done as it is inappropriate and has too low chance of winning?? WTF GOM...
Koreans take their SC as a very serious sport/entertainment. Nani pretty much spat in their face. We still view it differently cause its not as serious a sport to us yet. Different culters \(-.-)/ Lets say a scenario whereby in the old GOM format whereby there could be a match for 1st and 2nd seeds for the group. If you win you play MVP if you lose you play me (a scrub). Then you 7 pool against Nestea because you feel you can never win unless you get an advantage. You wtill lose because Nestea is a god and then GSL tells you hey you threw that match, you are disqualified) is that deserved? This could happen because GOM shows they can ban anyone. In many competitions such as in WCG (according to SOTG), there were people throwing games to choose their opponents and they are not eliminated. NaNi threw the game and there was NO gain for him but he was banned. Your rebuttal may be that it is not in the rules but in the GSL rules, HERE throwing matches are also not in the rules. Hence i feel that banning NaNi is a very bad choice Wasn't it confirmed that Nani is only banned for January? Eligibility ... - GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer. The rule is pretty clear-cut to me Yes Gom can do w.e. they want, that's not the argument. The bigger question is why does naniwa get banned and his spot taken away for not trying his hardest in a game that didn't matter, when people like byun, coca, choya, who either cheat or match fix, are only dealt with by slaps on the wrist (gstl ban) or team action and not Gom action.
Wasn't it confirmed that Nani was only banned for january?
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On December 14 2011 18:54 poorcloud wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 18:49 Termit wrote:
Wow this is bs. If they take away nani's spot I wouldn't mind having IdrA taking his place since he was already gonna play the up/downs and he is a popular foreigner who is training in Korea and all that. But why in the flying fuck should Sen who lives and plays in Taiwan and has his focus on that league over there get a spot over someone in Code A? Are GOM playing the "more foreigner fans watching plus 2 more zergs in Code S"-card?
GL IdrA & Sen. Agreed. Nice way to shit on all the superior players in code A just for the sake of more exposure. It is really disappointing.
That's just not true, there are various deals with other organisations. Code S players get seeded into MLG, while foreigners get into the GSL. It was widely accepted that Koreans get the better deal because they get more seeds into a tournament with better chances to get money faster. This improves upon that situation, and foreigners don't like it? I wonder which way the wind will blow tomorrow.
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On December 14 2011 19:04 Angelbelow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:03 Talin wrote:On December 14 2011 19:00 Gezz wrote:
A suspension was definitely the right choice. People are saying IdrA forfeits meaningless games regularly but I can never see him doing it for a planned BROADCASTED grudge match. Seeing as its broadcasted it matters to all the viewers and makes GOM look bad. 100% standing behind GOM on this one. Naniwa is under no obligation to make GOM look good, nor is it his business to care about how they will look. If GOM is going to pick players based on which players they like the most and which players make them look good and bring them more money then that is a show, not a legitimate competition. GOMTV has rules (albeit ambiguous) to argue that naniwa does have to make them look good. Recalling some of your posts in the past, its surprises me that you side with naniwa THIS heavily.
GOM would still look good if they didn't make beginners' mistakes in designing their tournament format.
Which posts specifically? As far as I remember, I always support the players over organizations (teams/tournaments). Whether I like their behaviour and decisions or not is another issue entirely, and I don't like Naniwa's attitude either in other circumstances, but that's not the point here.
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On December 14 2011 19:07 VikingKong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:04 Ace.Xile wrote:On December 14 2011 19:03 Grettin wrote:On December 14 2011 19:01 aderum wrote:On December 14 2011 18:59 baoluvboa wrote:On December 14 2011 18:58 dtz wrote:I think technically, GOM has the right to ban Naniwa. From the original GSL thread http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141496
Eligibility
- You must be at least 12 years old.
- You must have your own Battle.net account.
- You must fill out the registration form on the website.
- You must be able to participate in the offline preliminaries.
- GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer.
So i guess GOM has deemed someone who do not give their best in all games to be unfit to be a gamer. This is also the rule that prevent Saviour and co from joining GSL. Wow good job finding this particular quote. It basically justifies their decision in term of Korean values for progamers' conducts and should be put in their website's rule. Ofc they have the right to ban people, it is their tournament, the question is if a proberush is enough to ban someone. I surely thnk that it isnt. Jesus christ, it's not just about the fucking tactic he used. bull it 100% is, naniwa just did a 4 gate, or a 6 gate timing, or any sort of stupid entirely all in build, this would be fine. But the problem was that he ended it early with a super all in cheese. You're missing the point. The tactic that he used (probe rush) is totally retarded. It has a 0% win rate. Whatever, who cares. The problem is that, by choosing the tactic, he's spitting in the face of every Korean progamer that wanted to get into the tournament. He's biting the hand that feeds (GOM). He made them look like idiots and caused them to lose face. THAT's the issue. If he had used any other tactic, like you said, then he would have been fine because at least he pretended to give a shit. But he didn't. And the Koreans (not just GOM) are FUCKING PISSED.
GOM is doing the same thing by randomly inviting Sen (and Idra)
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United States17423 Posts
On December 14 2011 19:08 Lorizean wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:06 blade55555 wrote:On December 14 2011 19:06 Lorizean wrote:
Did Naniwa ever receive a Code S spot?
I mean, he got seeded into Code A and lost the first match.
The format of GSL says there are seeds for Code A, Code S and Up/Down. Who gets what? MLG providence he got a code S spot. So thats one of the 2 Code S seeds provided in the format. Now that Sen and IdrA both get Code S, one of them effectively replaced Naniwa, right? And there will be some more people getting seeds for Code A and Up/Down.
Not sure, supposedly idra/sen have nothing to do with naniwa being removed and separate. I don't know though for sure right now.
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On December 14 2011 19:04 Ace.Xile wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:03 Grettin wrote:On December 14 2011 19:01 aderum wrote:On December 14 2011 18:59 baoluvboa wrote:On December 14 2011 18:58 dtz wrote:I think technically, GOM has the right to ban Naniwa. From the original GSL thread http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141496
Eligibility
- You must be at least 12 years old.
- You must have your own Battle.net account.
- You must fill out the registration form on the website.
- You must be able to participate in the offline preliminaries.
- GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer.
So i guess GOM has deemed someone who do not give their best in all games to be unfit to be a gamer. This is also the rule that prevent Saviour and co from joining GSL. Wow good job finding this particular quote. It basically justifies their decision in term of Korean values for progamers' conducts and should be put in their website's rule. Ofc they have the right to ban people, it is their tournament, the question is if a proberush is enough to ban someone. I surely thnk that it isnt. Jesus christ, it's not just about the fucking tactic he used. bull it 100% is, naniwa just did a 4 gate, or a 6 gate timing, or any sort of stupid entirely all in build, this would be fine. But the problem was that he ended it early with a super all in cheese.
He simply forfeited the game. He played with a strat that won't EVER win in a competition like GSL.
It is mostly because of the behavior, not because he used probe-rush to end the game asap.
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On December 14 2011 19:06 Angelbelow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:05 ReachTheSky wrote:
Wow gsl is just handing out code s spots rofl. Its starting to lose prestige when people don't even need to earn it ;/ The new GSL format has 2 code S that are meant to be given out. So this has been in the works since GSL November. Its clear that you werent informed (neither was I before reading this thread) so take that information into consideration.
We can be informed of this but we can still think the invited players are not worthy. Why not Puma, who has won 2 NASLs? Or Hero, who has won dreamhack winter. Instead, we have Sen who is a far inferior player to these 2 players.
All points to the need for more exposure, more viewers and more money since Sen is a foreigner and has more fans.
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On December 14 2011 19:07 baoluvboa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:05 Redox wrote:On December 14 2011 19:05 baoluvboa wrote:On December 14 2011 19:04 Redox wrote:On December 14 2011 19:02 Deshkar wrote:On December 14 2011 18:58 dtz wrote:I think technically, GOM has the right to ban Naniwa. From the original GSL thread http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141496
Eligibility
- You must be at least 12 years old.
- You must have your own Battle.net account.
- You must fill out the registration form on the website.
- You must be able to participate in the offline preliminaries.
- GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer.
So i guess GOM has deemed someone who do not give their best in all games to be unfit to be a gamer. This is also the rule that prevent Saviour and co from joining GSL. Interesting. I see a clash of asian cultures vs western ones again. For every viewer that turns away from the GSL , I pretty sure another like me, would stick to it even more. I value professionalism a lot and maybe cos I'm an asian as well , who knows. On another note, the two foreign spots are present in this current format of the GSL, so it's nothing unexpected. Clash of cultures? It is just about money. Idra gives GOM more viewers than Naniwa. Hence they made a business decision. Naniwa's spot has nothing to do with Idra. Idra is getting a separate spot. And still Idra only gets the spot because he generates viwers. But it negates your argument that they wanted more viewers by banning naniwa for idra. And plenty of tournaments do this on top of qualification rounds, not just Gom.
Well, I know it is speculative, but I would bet you my mother that they would have not relegated Idra if he had done the same as Naniwa.
Btw we are talkin about the Idra here that has thrown game smore than once in high profile tournaments.
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United States23455 Posts
I don't see how Naniwa's leaving didn't correlate with Idra/Sen being invited.
8 spots to Code S quarter-finalists + 12 Code A winners + 10 Up-and-Down winners
That's 30 spots. Then one for Naniwa due to MLG. That leaves one "sponsored seed" left. Which means Idra or Sen took Naniwa's spot, someone else from Code S is leaving, or there are now 33 players in Code S.
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On December 14 2011 18:54 poorcloud wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 18:49 Termit wrote:
Wow this is bs. If they take away nani's spot I wouldn't mind having IdrA taking his place since he was already gonna play the up/downs and he is a popular foreigner who is training in Korea and all that. But why in the flying fuck should Sen who lives and plays in Taiwan and has his focus on that league over there get a spot over someone in Code A? Are GOM playing the "more foreigner fans watching plus 2 more zergs in Code S"-card?
GL IdrA & Sen. Agreed. Nice way to shit on all the superior players in code A just for the sake of more exposure. It is really disappointing.
Yep thats exactly what I meant. Putting popularity before merit is just the purest bullshit on earth 
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this thread isn't about naniwa by the way. naniwa has nothing to do with idra's invitation
GL Idra!
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EPT
