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Please discuss IdrA and Sen in Code S January in this thread. |
On December 14 2011 19:11 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:08 Angelbelow wrote:On December 14 2011 19:05 Jibba wrote:- GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer.
That is the most ridiculous rule ever. It might sound that way to us gamers, but its in just about every sport. Many examples can be found where athletes do something detrimental enough to be suspended or fined (basically some form of punishment) from their respective leagues. Show me one major sports that have a rule stated in such a fashion as the one quoted above. "Fifa can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a soccer player" What does that even mean? At least be specific, these general rules just mean they can make it up as they go along.
You can be banned as a soccer player for showing poor sportsmanship (I don't know the exact formulation in English, but in German it's "unsportliches Verhalten"). And of cause probably each serious tournament has an unspecified banning rule, as they can't list each and every bannable offense.
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I'm personally not a fan of all the seeds Gom gives out, I'd much rather see people who earn it in those spots. Will have to see how they perform.
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On December 14 2011 19:11 zestzorb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:07 Ace.Xile wrote:On December 14 2011 19:03 zestzorb wrote:On December 14 2011 19:02 Hopelessnoob wrote:On December 14 2011 18:54 HOTSLocusT wrote:On December 14 2011 18:33 Hopelessnoob wrote:
Gom giving out free code S without a competition
players like Hero/Puma/sase have to qualify while sen which has 0 acheivements at MLG or GSL gets in code S without a reason.
A small case can be made for Idra as he did well in MLG
And Naniwa which qualified and just due to a probe rush has lost his GSL spot... In the future no cannon rush/4gate/6pool can be done as it is inappropriate and has too low chance of winning?? WTF GOM...
Koreans take their SC as a very serious sport/entertainment. Nani pretty much spat in their face. We still view it differently cause its not as serious a sport to us yet. Different culters \(-.-)/ Lets say a scenario whereby in the old GOM format whereby there could be a match for 1st and 2nd seeds for the group. If you win you play MVP if you lose you play me (a scrub). Then you 7 pool against Nestea because you feel you can never win unless you get an advantage. You wtill lose because Nestea is a god and then GSL tells you hey you threw that match, you are disqualified) is that deserved? This could happen because GOM shows they can ban anyone. In many competitions such as in WCG (according to SOTG), there were people throwing games to choose their opponents and they are not eliminated. NaNi threw the game and there was NO gain for him but he was banned. Your rebuttal may be that it is not in the rules but in the GSL rules, HERE throwing matches are also not in the rules. Hence i feel that banning NaNi is a very bad choice Eligibility ... - GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer. The rule is pretty clear-cut to me Yes Gom can do w.e. they want, that's not the argument. The bigger question is why does naniwa get banned and his spot taken away for not trying his hardest in a game that didn't matter, when people like byun, coca, choya, who either cheat or match fix, are only dealt with by slaps on the wrist (gstl ban) or team action and not Gom action. Gom could have banned all 3 of them from GSL just because, but they didn't and for some reason Naniwa for an arguably much lesser offense. I agree with you that Coca, Byun, and Choya should have been banned as well. But their misconduct happened outside GOM tournaments. Maybe that's why GOM didn't do anything about them.
Their misconduct happened outside of GOM that had implications in the GSL further reaching than Nanis "offense" ever possibly could have. GOM pretty much reserves the right to ban someone for whatever they want, period. Even if you go out and say well Nani clearly didn't care who won in his game with Nestea, he used some shitty strat, he still didn't match fix or cheat, and those who did didn't get banned from GSL. I find it hard to understand their logic other than the fact that apparently not trying your hardest in a 100% pointless match, is worse than cheating or match fixing.
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On December 14 2011 19:15 Hopelessnoob wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:12 deathzz wrote:On December 14 2011 19:10 Lavi wrote:
Idra is lucky mr.chae didn't see his tweet:
"dont have meaningless matches if you want players to take them seriously."
or he'll find his code S spot gone with the quickness too.
saying about it and shitting in their face during their marquee tournament is different well that is BM and it can make him "unfit to be a gamer" (whatever that means) so they can ban him too X.X
They could, and discretionary laws are fine for some cases. And we know no-one would argue for banning Idra for that tweet, unless they truly want to prove their point no matter what...
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On December 14 2011 19:15 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:05 Jibba wrote:- GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer.
That is the most ridiculous rule ever. You are a mod from the teamliquid forums. You can deny the participation of someone in the forums if you found them to be unfit to be a forum poster.
No... TL has rules and they ban them if they break it. Not whether they are fit or unfit to post...
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On December 14 2011 19:14 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:11 nam nam wrote:On December 14 2011 19:08 Angelbelow wrote:On December 14 2011 19:05 Jibba wrote:- GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer.
That is the most ridiculous rule ever. It might sound that way to us gamers, but its in just about every sport. Many examples can be found where athletes do something detrimental enough to be suspended or fined (basically some form of punishment) from their respective leagues. Show me one major sports that have a rule stated in such a fashion as the one quoted above. "Fifa can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a soccer player" What does that even mean? At least be specific, these general rules just mean they can make it up as they go along. Reading through the tread would help. Didn't Rooney just get a several-game ban? Maradona's 15 months for cocaine use. Just google for "player banned." It's absolutely acceptable in the real world.
Yeah if you look closely every professional league will have some kind of blanket rule to give them power. I know the sport I follow here in Australia the rule is 'bringing the game into disrepute' or something similar. That can pretty much mean anything lol
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On December 14 2011 19:11 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:08 Angelbelow wrote:On December 14 2011 19:05 Jibba wrote:- GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer.
That is the most ridiculous rule ever. It might sound that way to us gamers, but its in just about every sport. Many examples can be found where athletes do something detrimental enough to be suspended or fined (basically some form of punishment) from their respective leagues. Show me one major sports that have a rule stated in such a fashion as the one quoted above. "Fifa can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a soccer player" What does that even mean? At least be specific, these general rules just mean they can make it up as they go along.
Easy. It happens ALL the time in the NBA. players get fined/suspended for taunting, arguing with the refs, and being disrespectful to the league. Naniwas situation should be seen as a suspension, not a full on ban.
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On December 14 2011 19:11 aderum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:05 Jibba wrote:- GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer.
That is the most ridiculous rule ever. Agreed. There should be clear rules about that is allowed and what isnt allowed. Otherwise people can just get randomly banned for things they didnt even know was punishable.
Gom isn't looking to ban people for no reason, so I wouldn't worry about that. They have a reputation to uphold. I think the rule is good because it allows them to make judgement in situations that they may not have been able to foresee, but would have liked to have punished.
Whether banning Naniwa was an overreaction is another story, but that doesn't take away from the usefulness of the rule in maintaining a prestigious league (and it is easy to argue that it worked in the case of Naniwa as he likely did not reflect the image that they wanted at Gom).
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On December 14 2011 19:12 Goldfish wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:08 Angelbelow wrote:On December 14 2011 19:05 Jibba wrote:- GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer.
That is the most ridiculous rule ever. It might sound that way to us gamers, but its in just about every sport. Many examples can be found where athletes do something detrimental enough to be suspended or fined (basically some form of punishment) from their respective leagues. Except this case wasn't all that "detrimental". Before people compare this to other sports or other games, remember that his game had nothing at stake. No points, no money, nothing. It's like playing a Bo7 where the opponent has already won 4 matches (why play the last 3 games when the opponent already won)? I'm not saying what Naniwa did was right but this is no where as bad as people are making it out to be IMO. He should get a warning or something else rather than an outright ban and his Code S spot taken away.
How do you think GOM makes money.....They need to put on good games with the best players in the world. It doesn't matter if the game meant anything to Nani i was looking forward to a great pvz with the best players in the world and i got a min of crap.
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On December 14 2011 19:15 Psi-Kick wrote:
I'm personally not a fan of all the seeds Gom gives out, I'd much rather see people who earn it in those spots. Will have to see how they perform.
well idra NEVER really did leave code S he just left korea while he was still Code S
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On December 14 2011 19:16 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:15 Hopelessnoob wrote:On December 14 2011 19:12 deathzz wrote:On December 14 2011 19:10 Lavi wrote:
Idra is lucky mr.chae didn't see his tweet:
"dont have meaningless matches if you want players to take them seriously."
or he'll find his code S spot gone with the quickness too.
saying about it and shitting in their face during their marquee tournament is different well that is BM and it can make him "unfit to be a gamer" (whatever that means) so they can ban him too X.X They could, and discretionary laws are fine for some cases. And we know no-one would argue for banning Idra for that tweet, unless they truly want to prove their point no matter what...
My point is then yo must be fair and ban everybody who is "unfit" so if anyone is late they are banned.... any BM is banned... any hint of a give up is banned...
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United States22883 Posts
On December 14 2011 19:15 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:05 Jibba wrote:- GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer.
That is the most ridiculous rule ever. You are a mod from the teamliquid forums. You can deny the participation of someone in the forums if you found them to be unfit to be a forum poster.
We have a set of explicit rules explaining good and bad conduct, and rarely is anyone removed on a first offense.
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On December 14 2011 19:15 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:05 Jibba wrote:- GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer.
That is the most ridiculous rule ever. You are a mod from the teamliquid forums. You can deny the participation of someone in the forums if you found them to be unfit to be a forum poster.
You got the point.
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On December 14 2011 19:16 Hopelessnoob wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:15 Snowbear wrote:On December 14 2011 19:05 Jibba wrote:- GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer.
That is the most ridiculous rule ever. You are a mod from the teamliquid forums. You can deny the participation of someone in the forums if you found them to be unfit to be a forum poster. No... TL has rules and they ban them if they break it. Not whether they are fit or unfit to post...
Being bad mannered is against the rules. Professionalism and behaviour like an adult is a global rule. If someone visits my home and spits in my face, I kick him out.
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Show me one major sports that have a rule stated in such a fashion as the one quoted above.
"Fifa can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a soccer player"
What does that even mean? At least be specific, these general rules just mean they can make it up as they go along.
AFL (Aussie Rules Football) can and has banned people for "Bringing the game into disrepute". Pretty close to the GSL rule IMO.
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United States23455 Posts
On December 14 2011 19:17 Whiteman103 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:15 Psi-Kick wrote:
I'm personally not a fan of all the seeds Gom gives out, I'd much rather see people who earn it in those spots. Will have to see how they perform. well idra NEVER really did leave code S he just left korea while he was still Code S
He did leave Code S. He gave away his spot in the GSL to go back to America due to the NASL was about to hit.
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On December 14 2011 19:18 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:15 Snowbear wrote:On December 14 2011 19:05 Jibba wrote:- GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer.
That is the most ridiculous rule ever. You are a mod from the teamliquid forums. You can deny the participation of someone in the forums if you found them to be unfit to be a forum poster. We have a set of explicit rules explaining good and bad conduct, and rarely is anyone removed on a first offense.
I think that this set of explit rules explaining good and bad conduct is a nice favour, but good behaviour is an implied rule imo.
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On December 14 2011 19:15 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:07 dtz wrote:On December 14 2011 19:05 Jibba wrote:- GomTV can deny your participation if you are found unfit to be a gamer.
That is the most ridiculous rule ever. Hm care to explain why? I think this rule was intentionally put there to prevent Saviour , Luxury , and Co from joining GSL. Don't you agree that these people who has lost all sense of sportmanship should not be allowed to join GSL even if it is not under KESPA? Not saying what Naniwa did is anything close to the matchfixers. But the rule by itself is appropriate imo. Naniwa just happen to catch the lower spectrum of the rule probably. It's not worded to explicitly ban those people. It's worded to ban anyone they feel like banning. It's like the difference between "Your driver's license will be suspended, if you are found driving under the influence of alcohol" vs. "Your driver's license will be suspended, if an officer finds you unfit to drive." Discretionary laws should be avoided for this reason.
I think that is because it will be so hard to list all the bannable offenses that constitute the intended consequences.
It of course assumes competency and fairness from the organizer/authority side.
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"During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours." - Wolf @ Twitter
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EPT
