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On December 14 2011 05:15 Kimaker wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:07 GeNeSiDe wrote:On December 14 2011 04:59 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 04:55 Sandster wrote:On December 14 2011 04:52 tlin wrote:On December 14 2011 04:47 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:
This is the difference between Naniwa an NesTea: NesTea would try to win anyway. Nani is just a child with no fighting spirit. "I wanted to show an entertaining match but HuK took it serious so I was caught off guard" - NesTea That's how much he would "try to win" in showmatches. But he played. For the fans. It's like taking the Brood War All-Stars games seriously (FYI - the games start out funny with everyone laughing but eventually turn serious). Naniwa said fuck you to the fans and everyone involved. and if you asked him to play a showmatch wtih a NesTea to settle their "rivalry" specifically as a thing for the fans, how do you know he wouldn't agree to it. They just straight up made him play a game he didn't want to, so he ended it the fastest way he knew how that actually involved an action (FYI more forfeitures end with worker rushes). He's not obgligated to entertain people 100 percent of the time. If he is not playing to entertain us then what is he playing for? ESports would be nothing without fans, people would just be #1 on ladder and have tournaments for honor. I saw here that he was paid 900$ for his attendance to this tournament. Like I said a singer/DJ cant just stop a performance because he is pissed off, because they are paid already/have a contract. Think of all the backlash when players walk out on their contract(Alexei Yashin for you hockey fans). He held out 3 years, could have been one of the better players of his time. Instead by the time the backlash had cooled off, Ottawa didn't want him anymore, and he scratched out a few seasons with NY before going back to Russia. ESports is entertainment/sports not just electronic sports so both these examples apply. NaniWa was contractually obliged to play this game(otherwise im sure he would have no-showed), and decided to flout it in our faces that he couldn't give a rat's ass about playing. I read one comment about how desperate he was to get home and practice....oh yeah sure, so DESPERATE that he didn't wanna have a PRACTICE game against NesTea the best zerg ATM? Stop being an enabler! This I disagree with. We don't "own" them. It's a mutual relationship. Naniwa is playing to win, or improve. Given the games and the way he must have been feeling I can't imagine that he felt he could gain anything from the game, and winning was already out of the question. You become a fan because of how a player plays. NOT based on what they're DOING for you as a spectator. All that is just bells and whistles and very nice of certain players, but by no means should that be the standard. I enjoy watching Nani's games, outside of that I don't really consider much. Naniwa isn't playing for ME or my entertainment, nor would I ever expect him to. He should always play for himself, first and foremost, which he did (or rather didn't) during that game. This whole thing is ridiculous.
but he was paid to play all of his matches?? from what i understand, when you accept money to do something such as playing against the scheduled opponents, you actually do it.
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Naniwa is far and away more of a professional gamer than this guy (not the OP) is a professional journalist. What a crock of an article.
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He's just immature. You just don't do that. He thinks he's better than he really is. I won't be surprised to see him knocked out of GSL next season.
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On December 14 2011 05:18 Russano wrote:
I still don't find this "disrespectful". If you want to make a case for it being disrespectful for the fans, sure, but how in the world is it disrespectful to NesTea?
See the thing is you are American, with an American Perspective. This is HIGHLY disrespectful to do something of this nature. To say I don't even respect you enough as a player to show you a real game.
Simply, what he is saying is Naniwa's time is more important than Nestea's time. When it was even Nestea's birthday, yet he was willing to prepare and show good games because that is what he is expected to do
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On December 14 2011 05:19 iG.Forever wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:15 Kimaker wrote:On December 14 2011 05:07 GeNeSiDe wrote:On December 14 2011 04:59 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 04:55 Sandster wrote:On December 14 2011 04:52 tlin wrote:On December 14 2011 04:47 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:
This is the difference between Naniwa an NesTea: NesTea would try to win anyway. Nani is just a child with no fighting spirit. "I wanted to show an entertaining match but HuK took it serious so I was caught off guard" - NesTea That's how much he would "try to win" in showmatches. But he played. For the fans. It's like taking the Brood War All-Stars games seriously (FYI - the games start out funny with everyone laughing but eventually turn serious). Naniwa said fuck you to the fans and everyone involved. and if you asked him to play a showmatch wtih a NesTea to settle their "rivalry" specifically as a thing for the fans, how do you know he wouldn't agree to it. They just straight up made him play a game he didn't want to, so he ended it the fastest way he knew how that actually involved an action (FYI more forfeitures end with worker rushes). He's not obgligated to entertain people 100 percent of the time. If he is not playing to entertain us then what is he playing for? ESports would be nothing without fans, people would just be #1 on ladder and have tournaments for honor. I saw here that he was paid 900$ for his attendance to this tournament. Like I said a singer/DJ cant just stop a performance because he is pissed off, because they are paid already/have a contract. Think of all the backlash when players walk out on their contract(Alexei Yashin for you hockey fans). He held out 3 years, could have been one of the better players of his time. Instead by the time the backlash had cooled off, Ottawa didn't want him anymore, and he scratched out a few seasons with NY before going back to Russia. ESports is entertainment/sports not just electronic sports so both these examples apply. NaniWa was contractually obliged to play this game(otherwise im sure he would have no-showed), and decided to flout it in our faces that he couldn't give a rat's ass about playing. I read one comment about how desperate he was to get home and practice....oh yeah sure, so DESPERATE that he didn't wanna have a PRACTICE game against NesTea the best zerg ATM? Stop being an enabler! This I disagree with. We don't "own" them. It's a mutual relationship. Naniwa is playing to win, or improve. Given the games and the way he must have been feeling I can't imagine that he felt he could gain anything from the game, and winning was already out of the question. You become a fan because of how a player plays. NOT based on what they're DOING for you as a spectator. All that is just bells and whistles and very nice of certain players, but by no means should that be the standard. I enjoy watching Nani's games, outside of that I don't really consider much. Naniwa isn't playing for ME or my entertainment, nor would I ever expect him to. He should always play for himself, first and foremost, which he did (or rather didn't) during that game. This whole thing is ridiculous. but he was paid to play all of his matches?? from what i understand, when you accept money to do something such as playing against the scheduled opponents, you actually do it.
And he played it. What's your point? Yeah, it was probably the least thrilling game ever played, but he still played it.
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Lol, not a pro gamer? >.<
Anyway, I just hope Quantic stands up and supports Naniwa because quite frankly this is getting out of hand and is blown way out of proportion.
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No one should be "punished" for bad manners. These are not little babies with their mommies playing flag football. This is a professional sport. NaniWa should be able to tell NesTea to suck a you-know-what if he wants, and the fans can get pissy, but there should be no punishment (as long as he says it off-air).
Furthermore, this is ridiculous that you people really expect him to care about a game that doesn't matter at ALL. Or to give you bullshit token lip service of pretending he cares so that you can feel secure in knowing that the sanctity of "the spirit of competition and mutual respect" is protected. Grow the fuck up and welcome to the real world. People aren't playing for your entertainment or because they love the game. Some of them are, and we all love them for it. Most of them are playing for the cash and that's it. They don't give a shit about you, or the competition, or the game, they care about winning and making money. I actually find that attitude refreshing. The "I don't care about all that shit, I want to win" mentality.
Ya'll sound rigoddamndiculous.
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On December 14 2011 05:17 Xalorian wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:09 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 05:04 Xalorian wrote:On December 14 2011 04:59 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 04:55 Sandster wrote:On December 14 2011 04:52 tlin wrote:On December 14 2011 04:47 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:
This is the difference between Naniwa an NesTea: NesTea would try to win anyway. Nani is just a child with no fighting spirit. "I wanted to show an entertaining match but HuK took it serious so I was caught off guard" - NesTea That's how much he would "try to win" in showmatches. But he played. For the fans. It's like taking the Brood War All-Stars games seriously (FYI - the games start out funny with everyone laughing but eventually turn serious). Naniwa said fuck you to the fans and everyone involved. and if you asked him to play a showmatch wtih a NesTea to settle their "rivalry" specifically as a thing for the fans, how do you know he wouldn't agree to it. They just straight up made him play a game he didn't want to, so he ended it the fastest way he knew how that actually involved an action (FYI more forfeitures end with worker rushes). He's not obgligated to entertain people 100 percent of the time. You guys should stop with that stupid argument. Tournament run events because they have sponsors. Sponsors are there because peoples watch the tournaments. People watch tournaments because they want to be entertained. If a player just leave the scene, another one will replace him. If tournaments and sponsors leave the scene, THAT will hurt the scene a lot. Players are not the pillar of eSports... players can be progamers BECAUSE of the pillars : sponsors, tournament and viewer. If a player don't want to play is best for the viewers and for the sponsors, he should just leave the scene, because that's what the scene is all about. That's why there is a scene in the first place. I completely disagree wtih this. IMO the most important thing is the comeptition and the game itself. First and formost people play the game, secondly people like watching the game, and 3rd people like to make money off watching the game. They all facilitate the process. To bring up Kobe again, his work ethic is widely known as the best in basketball, he puts a shit ton into the work he does and absolutely studies the game, if you took away all the money and all the fans, he wouldn't have as much time to put into it, but he'd sure as hell be hitting the gym and playing pickup games. People love the games they play that much. I play starcraft because I love it, not because some nerd enjoys seeing me play, and I can make a little money off it. The only reasons they can train that much is because they gain money. The only reason they gain money is because we want to watch them, therefore sponsor are paying money, not because they are good or whatever. It's a fact. Some people are really fucking great at Dawn of War and put many many hours and training in it, and it's fine. But they are not pro-gamers and they don't make money out of it, because there is no scene. That's what SC2 would be about if it was not for the casters, for the tournaments, for the community, etc. Success of a game as a eSports have way more to do with the players actual skills than with the community, and everything. If Naniwa was not a pro-gamers, another one would have the spot... because the scene is so big, than there is a shit ton of players that want to be pro-gamer... therefore there is a lot of pro-gamers, with skills...
See this is different. Your argument is that tournaments wouldn't exist. THere are people in this world who'd organize lans for no money or recognition. and I'm someone who would go to that LAN for no money or recognition. While I agree, yeah there wouldn't be a "pro scene" simply because there wouldn't be money generated. There would still be an actual scene. A scene alot like the foreigner BW one, where people played and thrived just on their passion for the game, and not because intel sponsors some tournament for 100k.
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"bastard" is the mild translation of whatever that Korean word means? Wow. Choya is pissed. To be honest, I can understand what is going on, but as Naniwa said, he did not feel he could do a good game due to lack of motivation, and his statement about him 4 gating was probably pretty accurate. Sucks for him though. He had (emphasis on had) a good chance to go big places. Can't help but feel really sad right about now.
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This article, WOW.
Did I log in to Team Liquid or the Overreaction Olympics?
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On December 14 2011 05:22 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
No one should be "punished" for bad manners.
you are totally right. I have never heard of anyone 'punished' for bad manners in professional sports or in any professional setting. They are bunch of babies.
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On December 14 2011 05:22 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
No one should be "punished" for bad manners. These are not little babies with their mommies playing flag football. This is a professional sport. NaniWa should be able to tell NesTea to suck a you-know-what if he wants, and the fans can get pissy, but there should be no punishment (as long as he says it off-air).
Furthermore, this is ridiculous that you people really expect him to care about a game that doesn't matter at ALL. Or to give you bullshit token lip service of pretending he cares so that you can feel secure in knowing that the sanctity of "the spirit of competition and mutual respect" is protected. Grow the fuck up and welcome to the real world. People aren't playing for your entertainment or because they love the game. Some of them are, and we all love them for it. Most of them are playing for the cash and that's it. They don't give a shit about you, or the competition, or the game, they care about winning and making money. I actually find that attitude refreshing. The "I don't care about all that shit, I want to win" mentality.
Ya'll sound rigoddamndiculous.
I would love to see people like you take the blinders off and realize this is in KOREA, a KOREAN run tournament, which he was INVITED to. He should see it as an honor, and respect their culture enough to play a single game. Even if he has different ideals, he should respect the way in which things are done in other cultures.
Also, there is nothing to gain by not playing this game. Maybe some arbitrary sense of the lack of motivation and some random bullshit, but he had to either sit in that booth and play a 30 minute game MAX, or he could play for 2 minutes, lose on purpose and completely shit on every viewer who stayed to watch the last game that was played.
No matter how you look at it, it is pure selfishness. There is no way around it, now whether or not you think it is justified to be selfish after going 0-3 is your own business
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If players have no chance of advancing in certain tournaments(like group stages in gsl) then they'll pass over their matches. It's been done before. This wasn't just a tournament though, it was an EVENT. Look at all the press conferences and stuff that went into it. Look at how they're playing games that don't matter. It's not just about winning, It's about showing the FANS something that they really wanted to see.
Naniwa just gave a middle finger to all of the fans that wanted to see that match. Total dick move.
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On December 14 2011 05:21 Halcyondaze wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:18 Russano wrote:
I still don't find this "disrespectful". If you want to make a case for it being disrespectful for the fans, sure, but how in the world is it disrespectful to NesTea? See the thing is you are American, with an American Perspective. This is HIGHLY disrespectful to do something of this nature. To say I don't even respect you enough as a player to show you a real game. Simply, what he is saying is Naniwa's time is more important than Nestea's time. When it was even Nestea's birthday, yet he was willing to prepare and show good games because that is what he is expected to do
The problem here is. It's on the person receiving the offense, to be offended. The "foreign" perspectieve for lack of a better term, doesn't see this as disrespectful. While it would be good of naniwa to try to adjust for the culture and not cause any offense. The korean stand point should realize that the foreigner didn't intend it as disrespect, and that they can take the high road and forgive it.
THe proper response here, is for the Koreans to tell Naniwa that they frown on this kind of thing, tell him not to do it again, and for him to say I'm sorry I did it, and everyone moves on. Not this stupid shitstorm saying he doesn't deserve to be a progamer.
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On December 14 2011 05:21 Lt.Roosevelt wrote:
Lol, not a pro gamer? >.<
Anyway, I just hope Quantic stands up and supports Naniwa because quite frankly this is getting out of hand and is blown way out of proportion.
I don't think so. Such behaviour is tolerated too much in western eSports. It's unfair and disrespectful and anyone should be punished for it. Even if my personal favourite players would do like that I would demand penalties for it.
So many people lost any sense for fairness, it's unbelievable, they o not even know that Naniwa shows disrespect. You can only educate people to be fair again, if you force them by penalties and hopefully the audience will learn what's right and what is wrong.
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OK GUYS WE ALL KNOW THIS ARTICLE IS RIDICULOUS AND FULL OF OVERREACTIONS.
No doubt, the writer just selected his/her quotes and is trying to blow everything out of proportion, simply because that's what journalists do. Especially obscure ones.
However I stand on the side that Naniwa did make the wrong move, though it shouldn't be career-ending or anything along those lines. Just a good apology and a promise to never do it again would be nice.
EDIT:
Do NOT do the stupid thing and associate this article-writer with the Koreans in general, because we have heard from several people that many people in the actual studio didn't take it badly. It's just certain people who got rubbed the wrong way. Taking this article seriously is like taking Fox news to be representative of the entire US population. And I don't know about you, but that's just offensive to me, Fox news spews more shit than the average horse.
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On December 14 2011 05:15 Russano wrote:He's playing to be the best, and to show he's the best. In his eyes, this game was totally meaningless, and I agree with him. The game fucking didn't matter. NONE of the integrity of the competition was compromised. As much as I disagree wtih the choice of not trying your hardest, I find it slightly more admirable to blatantly show a game that was clearly aforfeiture rather then half ass it and go SEE NANIWA SUCKS NESTEA IS AWESOM AHAHAHAHHA!!!. I don't expect players to fake a game just for me, the same way I don't expect a girl to fake a fucking orgasm. I'd rather she just didnt at all then find out she faked it.
What what the the fuck fuck?
He could have declined to play the game if all he wanted to do was forfeit... I REALLY don't get your faking an orgasm analogy.... or argument... whatever the hell it was supposed to be.
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lol if you threw a television match in BW you'd be off your team so fast
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On December 14 2011 05:21 Halcyondaze wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:18 Russano wrote:
I still don't find this "disrespectful". If you want to make a case for it being disrespectful for the fans, sure, but how in the world is it disrespectful to NesTea? See the thing is you are American, with an American Perspective. This is HIGHLY disrespectful to do something of this nature.
Please speak for yourself.
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On December 14 2011 05:24 Halcyondaze wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:22 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
No one should be "punished" for bad manners. These are not little babies with their mommies playing flag football. This is a professional sport. NaniWa should be able to tell NesTea to suck a you-know-what if he wants, and the fans can get pissy, but there should be no punishment (as long as he says it off-air).
Furthermore, this is ridiculous that you people really expect him to care about a game that doesn't matter at ALL. Or to give you bullshit token lip service of pretending he cares so that you can feel secure in knowing that the sanctity of "the spirit of competition and mutual respect" is protected. Grow the fuck up and welcome to the real world. People aren't playing for your entertainment or because they love the game. Some of them are, and we all love them for it. Most of them are playing for the cash and that's it. They don't give a shit about you, or the competition, or the game, they care about winning and making money. I actually find that attitude refreshing. The "I don't care about all that shit, I want to win" mentality.
Ya'll sound rigoddamndiculous.
I would love to see people like you take the blinders off and realize this is in KOREA, a KOREAN run tournament, which he was INVITED to. He should see it as an honor, and respect their culture enough to play a single game. Even if he has different ideals, he should respect the way in which things are done in other cultures.
It was something he qualified for, not something he was invited to. I very much doubt this will ever happen with him not playing a game in korea again. Respect goes both ways, and I find Korean netizen reaction to this very offputting.
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EPT
