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On December 14 2011 05:28 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:21 Lt.Roosevelt wrote:
Lol, not a pro gamer? >.<
Anyway, I just hope Quantic stands up and supports Naniwa because quite frankly this is getting out of hand and is blown way out of proportion. I don't think so. Such behaviour is tolerated too much in western eSports. It's unfair and disrespectful and anyone should be punished for it. Even if my personal favourite players would do like that I would demand penalties for it. So many people lost any sense for fairness, it's unbelievable, they o not even know that Naniwa shows disrespect. You can only educate people to be fair again, if you force them by penalties and hopefully the audience will learn what's right and what is wrong.
I agree completely... people take ESPORTS too lightly; It's what these people bet their lives and their family's livelihoods on...
Spitting on that is just... infuriating...
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If I was Nani's sponsor I'd be kissing his feet... publicity doesn't get better than this. Look at all these little boys about to shoot in their pre-pubescent pants cause Nani threw away a game that didn't matter.
To be perfectly honest I don't understand why this game was even broadcasted but I sure as hell don't expect a progamer to waste their precious time putting on a show for the fans. These people aren't monkeys.
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On December 14 2011 05:29 Russano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:24 Halcyondaze wrote:On December 14 2011 05:22 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
No one should be "punished" for bad manners. These are not little babies with their mommies playing flag football. This is a professional sport. NaniWa should be able to tell NesTea to suck a you-know-what if he wants, and the fans can get pissy, but there should be no punishment (as long as he says it off-air).
Furthermore, this is ridiculous that you people really expect him to care about a game that doesn't matter at ALL. Or to give you bullshit token lip service of pretending he cares so that you can feel secure in knowing that the sanctity of "the spirit of competition and mutual respect" is protected. Grow the fuck up and welcome to the real world. People aren't playing for your entertainment or because they love the game. Some of them are, and we all love them for it. Most of them are playing for the cash and that's it. They don't give a shit about you, or the competition, or the game, they care about winning and making money. I actually find that attitude refreshing. The "I don't care about all that shit, I want to win" mentality.
Ya'll sound rigoddamndiculous.
I would love to see people like you take the blinders off and realize this is in KOREA, a KOREAN run tournament, which he was INVITED to. He should see it as an honor, and respect their culture enough to play a single game. Even if he has different ideals, he should respect the way in which things are done in other cultures. It was something he qualified for, not something he was invited to. I very much doubt this will ever happen with him not playing a game in korea again. Respect goes both ways, and I find Korean netizen reaction to this very offputting.
it was something he was invited too obviously.... he was qualified for the invitation.
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On December 14 2011 05:27 Russano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:21 Halcyondaze wrote:On December 14 2011 05:18 Russano wrote:
I still don't find this "disrespectful". If you want to make a case for it being disrespectful for the fans, sure, but how in the world is it disrespectful to NesTea? See the thing is you are American, with an American Perspective. This is HIGHLY disrespectful to do something of this nature. To say I don't even respect you enough as a player to show you a real game. Simply, what he is saying is Naniwa's time is more important than Nestea's time. When it was even Nestea's birthday, yet he was willing to prepare and show good games because that is what he is expected to do The problem here is. It's on the person receiving the offense, to be offended. The "foreign" perspectieve for lack of a better term, doesn't see this as disrespectful. While it would be good of naniwa to try to adjust for the culture and not cause any offense. The korean stand point should realize that the foreigner didn't intend it as disrespect, and that they can take the high road and forgive it. THe proper response here, is for the Koreans to tell Naniwa that they frown on this kind of thing, tell him not to do it again, and for him to say I'm sorry I did it, and everyone moves on. Not this stupid shitstorm saying he doesn't deserve to be a progamer.
Well I'm a foreigner and I was brought up in a way that makes me understand what he did as highly offensive. I just feel people don't know elementary basics anymore.
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On December 14 2011 05:27 Russano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:21 Halcyondaze wrote:On December 14 2011 05:18 Russano wrote:
I still don't find this "disrespectful". If you want to make a case for it being disrespectful for the fans, sure, but how in the world is it disrespectful to NesTea? See the thing is you are American, with an American Perspective. This is HIGHLY disrespectful to do something of this nature. To say I don't even respect you enough as a player to show you a real game. Simply, what he is saying is Naniwa's time is more important than Nestea's time. When it was even Nestea's birthday, yet he was willing to prepare and show good games because that is what he is expected to do The problem here is. It's on the person receiving the offense, to be offended. The "foreign" perspectieve for lack of a better term, doesn't see this as disrespectful. While it would be good of naniwa to try to adjust for the culture and not cause any offense. The korean stand point should realize that the foreigner didn't intend it as disrespect, and that they can take the high road and forgive it. THe proper response here, is for the Koreans to tell Naniwa that they frown on this kind of thing, tell him not to do it again, and for him to say I'm sorry I did it, and everyone moves on. Not this stupid shitstorm saying he doesn't deserve to be a progamer.
That is another great AMERICAN perspective because we are used to other cultures coming into our country and having to abide by their "rules".
THIS IS KOREA, how many times can I say this. Adjusting to cultures is polite AND EXPECTED, not doing so is disrespectful, that is life. You either are American, or you agree with that.
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On December 14 2011 05:28 ShatterZer0 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:15 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 05:07 GeNeSiDe wrote:
He's playing to be the best, and to show he's the best. In his eyes, this game was totally meaningless, and I agree with him. The game fucking didn't matter. NONE of the integrity of the competition was compromised. As much as I disagree wtih the choice of not trying your hardest, I find it slightly more admirable to blatantly show a game that was clearly aforfeiture rather then half ass it and go SEE NANIWA SUCKS NESTEA IS AWESOM AHAHAHAHHA!!!. I don't expect players to fake a game just for me, the same way I don't expect a girl to fake a fucking orgasm. I'd rather she just didnt at all then find out she faked it. What what the the fuck fuck? He could have declined to play the game if all he wanted to do was forfeit... I REALLY don't get your faking an orgasm analogy.... or argument... whatever the hell it was supposed to be.
You don't know he could of declined, I wouldn't be surprised if he tried to and they said no. The analogy is, if Naniwa doesn't give a shit about the game, 4 gates, executes poorly, and loses.Nobody gives a shit because he stroked their ego's and they somehow think it was a super try hard game? But if Naniwai doesn't give a shit abhout the game, probe rushes, executes poorly and loses, somehow its definately not okay because he didn't even fake like he cared about the game.
My analogy is I don't want a player fucking faking that they give a shit when they don't. If they give a shit and play their ass off, then GREAT!, But don't fucking barely try just for my sake, then try and act like you were giving it your all and that it mattered when it clearly didn't.
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On December 14 2011 05:32 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:27 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 05:21 Halcyondaze wrote:On December 14 2011 05:18 Russano wrote:
I still don't find this "disrespectful". If you want to make a case for it being disrespectful for the fans, sure, but how in the world is it disrespectful to NesTea? See the thing is you are American, with an American Perspective. This is HIGHLY disrespectful to do something of this nature. To say I don't even respect you enough as a player to show you a real game. Simply, what he is saying is Naniwa's time is more important than Nestea's time. When it was even Nestea's birthday, yet he was willing to prepare and show good games because that is what he is expected to do The problem here is. It's on the person receiving the offense, to be offended. The "foreign" perspectieve for lack of a better term, doesn't see this as disrespectful. While it would be good of naniwa to try to adjust for the culture and not cause any offense. The korean stand point should realize that the foreigner didn't intend it as disrespect, and that they can take the high road and forgive it. THe proper response here, is for the Koreans to tell Naniwa that they frown on this kind of thing, tell him not to do it again, and for him to say I'm sorry I did it, and everyone moves on. Not this stupid shitstorm saying he doesn't deserve to be a progamer. Well I'm a foreigner and I was brought up in a way that makes me understand what he did as highly offensive. I just feel people don't know elementary basics anymore.
I am disappointed in my fellow country members. Americans are not cultured at all, and it is pathetic. Let me apologize for all of us ignorant Americans formally for not having a CLUE what is expected when living outside of your own comfort zone
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On December 14 2011 05:22 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
No one should be "punished" for bad manners. These are not little babies with their mommies playing flag football. This is a professional sport. NaniWa should be able to tell NesTea to suck a you-know-what if he wants, and the fans can get pissy, but there should be no punishment (as long as he says it off-air).
Furthermore, this is ridiculous that you people really expect him to care about a game that doesn't matter at ALL. Or to give you bullshit token lip service of pretending he cares so that you can feel secure in knowing that the sanctity of "the spirit of competition and mutual respect" is protected. Grow the fuck up and welcome to the real world. People aren't playing for your entertainment or because they love the game. Some of them are, and we all love them for it. Most of them are playing for the cash and that's it. They don't give a shit about you, or the competition, or the game, they care about winning and making money. I actually find that attitude refreshing. The "I don't care about all that shit, I want to win" mentality.
Ya'll sound rigoddamndiculous.
To be frank, YOU grow the fuck up and welcome to the world of economics. Fans generate sponsors, sponsors spend money, money pays tournament winnings and salaries, tournament winnings and salaries pay players, players pay fans.
Its a recurrent cycle that needs to be honored and respected for the system to work.
There was a lot of hype between the Naniwa-Nestea game, going beyond this little showmatch-tournament, back to Providence.
If you had Celtics/Lakers playing on the 82nd game of the season how would you feel as a fan if one of the team forfeited 2 minutes into the 1st quarter just because neither of them can make the playoffs? Would you buy a jersey or other merchandise while leaving the stadium? Probably not.
Would you riot, complain and critisize your team for letting you down? Yes
Welcome to this thread.
At the end of it all, it's not about the lip service. Let him tell me NesTea is a ****ing prick and that he couldnt be bothered so he 2gated. It just makes HIM look unprofessional, but atleast it would be mildly entertaining. This was literally the most abrasive way to let his fans know that he really does NOT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. So why should we give a shit about him anymore either?
Welcome to reality.
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funny how the american pro gamers see it as no big deal
and the korean pro gamers see it as a big deal.
really shows their mindsets and how seriously they take sc2 lol.
i just see it as immature. i see a lot of similarities between naniwa and major.
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then dont take the money to play?
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On December 14 2011 04:55 GrungyMunchy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 04:53 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:On December 14 2011 04:50 GrungyMunchy wrote:On December 14 2011 04:41 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:On December 14 2011 04:34 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 04:32 The_LiNk wrote:On December 14 2011 04:26 Sea_Food wrote:On December 14 2011 04:19 The_LiNk wrote:On December 14 2011 04:09 Sea_Food wrote:
You could edit this at the end of OP
TL;DR
Some Koreans do not understand that there are people in the world with different cultures. That happens when a nation does not have enough immigrants. People there will not learn to respect other cultures within their own borders. Understanding cultures go both ways. You expect Koreans to understand Naniwa's "Western" culture of winning but you do not understand the Korean culture of respect. So ironic. Last time I checked, "fighting to the bitter end" thing is very prevalent in Western cultures. 300 and Spartans and all. Naniwa was in pissed off, so there is a reason why he dosnt act respectfully. And FYI. 300 spartans was not a documentary. 300 spartans never did kill 10 000 persians. If you havent stayed awake during history lessons, western nations give up before they have only 300 soldiers left. I don't think you understood my reference to 300 and the Spartans. I'm saying how Western culture seems to have some sort of value in fighting to the end because it's the honourable thing to do and how the lore of the Battle of Thermopylae is one of the most celebrated examples of this. Also I don't see how Naniwa being pissed off is an excuse to not act respectfully. Do Western parents really buy the candy for their child just because the child is having a temper tantrum? Yeah they do buy them the candy kinda often, and it really blows. But Naniwa sees the world differently, and probably didn't even conceive that it might be disrespectful. Im' sure he's totally shocked at how much hate he's getting for a fucking probe rush. Reading the interview I cannot see any sign of Naniwa being shocked, he still thinks he did nothing wrong, even if he denied the PAYING STARCRAFT2-FANS a game of NesTea. You think someone who's gonna play against Nestea is thinking about giving good games for the paying Nestea fans? No, they're thinking about winning the game regardless of how they do it. Naniwa, being the guy obsessed with winning that we all know, didn't care about a match that wouldn't decide anything, and acted accordingly. Blizzard Cup isn't a set of showmatches, they're not playing for your entertainment. They're playing to win. Money. A lot of it. It's not about NesTea Fans, read more careful! Well it's not about Naniwa's fans either, neither is about SC2 fans who paid for it. It's about the players only. It's their job. They make a living off of it. They don't need to give a shit about what the fans think, and some of them (like Naniwa) indeed don't give a shit.
How do you think they make their living? They make their living by performing. The reason they get paid is that people pay to see the players perform. If they do not perform, they do not live up to their contractual obligations. That's why people get upset about this, just like people get upset when IdrA quits games and no-shows his matches. Not to mention the general grudge nature of the contest. Naniwa looks like the kid who told Nestea to meet him out in the schoolyard after class and cried "I don't want to fight anymore" after Nestea popped him in the jaw.
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On December 14 2011 05:33 Halcyondaze wrote:
THIS IS KOREA, how many times can I say this. Adjusting to cultures is polite AND EXPECTED, not doing so is disrespectful, that is life. You either are American, or you agree with that.
did you even read what I said? Naniwa should try and abide by the rules, but this fucker barely figures out ours much less Koreas. I'm sayign Koreans should ALSO adjust to ours, and not overract and take personally something that wasn't supposed to be disrespectful.
If sneezing is fucking rude in Japan, and I go there not knowing that, and I sneeze. The japanese reaction should not be OMFG YOU SNEEZED FUCK YOU. It should be, dude sneezings not cool here, could you really not sneeze, if you do people will think its a big fuck you. Then I go: Oh my bad, I'll try not to sneeze. That's how basic communictation works.
RIght now the Korean reaction is OMFG YOU SNEEZED FUCK YOU.
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So when NaDa throws a game against IdrA in GSL its fine because he tries to disguise it with a terribly executed thor allin it's fine, but when Naniwa is being obvious about throwing games, then its a disgrace? It's a disgrace to the players to tell them to play their best when there's virtually nothing on the line. It's like the ultimate example of GOM being disgusted that their attempt to get extra free content out of a meaningless game and hyping it to some sort of "epic grudge match" between two players who really want to beat each other.
I really have to take Naniwa's side of this incident. It's not really worth his time or effort to try and play a game. And I have full respect for him not doing like everyone else does and playing a terrible game, but playing it out. I don't want fake competition, I wanna see both players play a game with a lot on the line, else its meaningless to play a staged match.
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On December 14 2011 05:21 Lt.Roosevelt wrote:
Lol, not a pro gamer? >.<
Anyway, I just hope Quantic stands up and supports Naniwa because quite frankly this is getting out of hand and is blown way out of proportion.
If Quantic supports Naniwa, then StarTale is forced to support him too, then ST will get the hate from the netizens. ST might have to stop the partnetship with Quantic. It's a tough choice, but it's better for them to not say anything.
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Really inpiring reaction of naniwa..
unmasking the hypocrisy of a whole scene en passant by just acting for himself.
The stupidity of this holier than thou attitude about what conformistic behaviour suddenly can expected from someone once he gets the label professional is just mind boggling. The upholding of this mindset is one of the fundamental means of exploitation in modern capitalit societies. No need to hire a costly police force to oppress people if they can oppress themselves by ideology.
Professionals are people too. The idea they should stop behaving like people and submit to some kind of conformistic behaviour so that someone else can make more money from it is pretty wrong.
Despite knowing better most people are intimidated by their peers and feel the need to conform. Its quite refreshing actually to see someone not giving a shit at all, for whatever reasons.
I wish I had the nerve to do something like that in a situation like this.
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Should have just 4-gated half-assed and would have spared himself so much bad-press
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Quoted for truth.
It's not about NesTea Fans, read more careful![/QUOTE]
Well it's not about Naniwa's fans either, neither is about SC2 fans who paid for it. It's about the players only. It's their job. They make a living off of it. They don't need to give a shit about what the fans think, and some of them (like Naniwa) indeed don't give a shit.[/QUOTE]
How do you think they make their living? They make their living by performing. The reason they get paid is that people pay to see the players perform. If they do not perform, they do not live up to their contractual obligations. That's why people get upset about this, just like people get upset when IdrA quits games and no-shows his matches. Not to mention the general grudge nature of the contest. Naniwa looks like the kid who told Nestea to meet him out in the schoolyard after class and cried "I don't want to fight anymore" after Nestea popped him in the jaw.
[/QUOTE]
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On December 14 2011 05:36 Russano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:33 Halcyondaze wrote:
THIS IS KOREA, how many times can I say this. Adjusting to cultures is polite AND EXPECTED, not doing so is disrespectful, that is life. You either are American, or you agree with that.
did you even read what I said? Naniwa should try and abide by the rules, but this fucker barely figures out ours much less Koreas. I'm sayign Koreans should ALSO adjust to ours, and not overract and take personally something that wasn't supposed to be disrespectful. If sneezing is fucking rude in Japan, and I go there not knowing that, and I sneeze. The japanese reaction should not be OMFG YOU SNEEZED FUCK YOU. It should be, dude sneezings not cool here, could you really not sneeze, if you do people will think its a big fuck you. Then I go: Oh my bad, I'll try not to sneeze. That's how basic communictation works. RIght now the Korean reaction is OMFG YOU SNEEZED FUCK YOU.
but the thing is, esports is centered in korea. thats like saying one asian kid goes to NBA and the entire NBA should adjust to that asian kid.
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What a ridiculous fucking article, frustratingly retarded writer.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Who cares to be completely frank.
The fact people are blowing this out of proportion is dumb.
He wasn't able to advance, why care. The end.
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EPT
