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On December 14 2011 05:36 Russano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:33 Halcyondaze wrote:
THIS IS KOREA, how many times can I say this. Adjusting to cultures is polite AND EXPECTED, not doing so is disrespectful, that is life. You either are American, or you agree with that.
did you even read what I said? Naniwa should try and abide by the rules, but this fucker barely figures out ours much less Koreas. I'm sayign Koreans should ALSO adjust to ours, and not overract and take personally something that wasn't supposed to be disrespectful. If sneezing is fucking rude in Japan, and I go there not knowing that, and I sneeze. The japanese reaction should not be OMFG YOU SNEEZED FUCK YOU. It should be, dude sneezings not cool here, could you really not sneeze, if you do people will think its a big fuck you. Then I go: Oh my bad, I'll try not to sneeze. That's how basic communictation works. RIght now the Korean reaction is OMFG YOU SNEEZED FUCK YOU.
So what you are saying is that The entire Korean SC2 Scene, along with the tournament organizers who invited Naniwa to this tournament should not overreact to something that they find HIGHLY disrespectful.
Your sneezing analogy is so ignorant I can't even comment on how wrong that train of thought is. It is beyond words.
"That's how basic communication works" HOLY FUCK, I can't even believe that there are people like you in this world, it is amazing
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On December 14 2011 05:39 Frozne wrote:
Who cares to be completely frank.
The fact people are blowing this out of proportion is dumb.
He wasn't able to advance, why care. The end.
Professionalism, why don't you try it?
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On December 14 2011 05:37 iG.Forever wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:36 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 05:33 Halcyondaze wrote:
THIS IS KOREA, how many times can I say this. Adjusting to cultures is polite AND EXPECTED, not doing so is disrespectful, that is life. You either are American, or you agree with that.
did you even read what I said? Naniwa should try and abide by the rules, but this fucker barely figures out ours much less Koreas. I'm sayign Koreans should ALSO adjust to ours, and not overract and take personally something that wasn't supposed to be disrespectful. If sneezing is fucking rude in Japan, and I go there not knowing that, and I sneeze. The japanese reaction should not be OMFG YOU SNEEZED FUCK YOU. It should be, dude sneezings not cool here, could you really not sneeze, if you do people will think its a big fuck you. Then I go: Oh my bad, I'll try not to sneeze. That's how basic communictation works. RIght now the Korean reaction is OMFG YOU SNEEZED FUCK YOU. but the thing is, esports is centered in korea. thats like saying one asian kid goes to NBA and the entire NBA should adjust to that asian kid.
No, they should say dont' fucking do that again or we'll take it as a fuck you. Then if kid does it again, knowing its a big fuck you, then you take it as a fuck you. You don't just knee jerk take it as a fuck you.
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It's between him and his team imo. I don't see why anyone else should care. Why should be put forth the effort if he doesn't feel like it? He doesn't owe fans anything.
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On December 14 2011 05:35 Halcyondaze wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:32 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:On December 14 2011 05:27 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 05:21 Halcyondaze wrote:On December 14 2011 05:18 Russano wrote:
I still don't find this "disrespectful". If you want to make a case for it being disrespectful for the fans, sure, but how in the world is it disrespectful to NesTea? See the thing is you are American, with an American Perspective. This is HIGHLY disrespectful to do something of this nature. To say I don't even respect you enough as a player to show you a real game. Simply, what he is saying is Naniwa's time is more important than Nestea's time. When it was even Nestea's birthday, yet he was willing to prepare and show good games because that is what he is expected to do The problem here is. It's on the person receiving the offense, to be offended. The "foreign" perspectieve for lack of a better term, doesn't see this as disrespectful. While it would be good of naniwa to try to adjust for the culture and not cause any offense. The korean stand point should realize that the foreigner didn't intend it as disrespect, and that they can take the high road and forgive it. THe proper response here, is for the Koreans to tell Naniwa that they frown on this kind of thing, tell him not to do it again, and for him to say I'm sorry I did it, and everyone moves on. Not this stupid shitstorm saying he doesn't deserve to be a progamer. Well I'm a foreigner and I was brought up in a way that makes me understand what he did as highly offensive. I just feel people don't know elementary basics anymore. I am disappointed in my fellow country members. Americans are not cultured at all, and it is pathetic. Let me apologize for all of us ignorant Americans formally for not having a CLUE what is expected when living outside of your own comfort zone
I don't know if that is American standard so I would never blame Americans for it, since there are many people ouside of the US being similar.
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When was it Naniwa's job to care about the fans? Do we pay him money? Does that game vs nestea pay him money?
How does people supporting him DESTROY ESPORTS? What is this some kind of 2012 prophecy....if naniwa has fans the world we know will shatter....MUST BAN NANIWA!
To err is to be human to be human is to err. Naniwa did not make the best decision clearly. Naniwa did not have any guidance in making his decision either nor any regulation against his action.
We first we fail try try again. Analyze. Improve. Succeed.
Do not continue to bash a worthy player of this beautiful game because of one mistimed reflex.
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On December 14 2011 05:35 iG.Forever wrote:
then dont take the money to play?
So, we only pay people for thrilling games? Or rather games that we "think" they tried hard in? He showed up, he played, he lost. If he'd have half-assed 4 gated it he would have lost too, except no one would care despite the fact the he would have basically done the exact same thing over a 6 minute stretch instead of a 2 minute stretch.
Same farce, different skin.
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On December 14 2011 05:35 Halcyondaze wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:32 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:On December 14 2011 05:27 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 05:21 Halcyondaze wrote:On December 14 2011 05:18 Russano wrote:
I still don't find this "disrespectful". If you want to make a case for it being disrespectful for the fans, sure, but how in the world is it disrespectful to NesTea? See the thing is you are American, with an American Perspective. This is HIGHLY disrespectful to do something of this nature. To say I don't even respect you enough as a player to show you a real game. Simply, what he is saying is Naniwa's time is more important than Nestea's time. When it was even Nestea's birthday, yet he was willing to prepare and show good games because that is what he is expected to do The problem here is. It's on the person receiving the offense, to be offended. The "foreign" perspectieve for lack of a better term, doesn't see this as disrespectful. While it would be good of naniwa to try to adjust for the culture and not cause any offense. The korean stand point should realize that the foreigner didn't intend it as disrespect, and that they can take the high road and forgive it. THe proper response here, is for the Koreans to tell Naniwa that they frown on this kind of thing, tell him not to do it again, and for him to say I'm sorry I did it, and everyone moves on. Not this stupid shitstorm saying he doesn't deserve to be a progamer. Well I'm a foreigner and I was brought up in a way that makes me understand what he did as highly offensive. I just feel people don't know elementary basics anymore. I am disappointed in my fellow country members. Americans are not cultured at all, and it is pathetic. Let me apologize for all of us ignorant Americans formally for not having a CLUE what is expected when living outside of your own comfort zone
Thanks for the sweeping insult, really appreciated.
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On December 14 2011 05:33 Halcyondaze wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:27 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 05:21 Halcyondaze wrote:On December 14 2011 05:18 Russano wrote:
I still don't find this "disrespectful". If you want to make a case for it being disrespectful for the fans, sure, but how in the world is it disrespectful to NesTea? See the thing is you are American, with an American Perspective. This is HIGHLY disrespectful to do something of this nature. To say I don't even respect you enough as a player to show you a real game. Simply, what he is saying is Naniwa's time is more important than Nestea's time. When it was even Nestea's birthday, yet he was willing to prepare and show good games because that is what he is expected to do The problem here is. It's on the person receiving the offense, to be offended. The "foreign" perspectieve for lack of a better term, doesn't see this as disrespectful. While it would be good of naniwa to try to adjust for the culture and not cause any offense. The korean stand point should realize that the foreigner didn't intend it as disrespect, and that they can take the high road and forgive it. THe proper response here, is for the Koreans to tell Naniwa that they frown on this kind of thing, tell him not to do it again, and for him to say I'm sorry I did it, and everyone moves on. Not this stupid shitstorm saying he doesn't deserve to be a progamer. That is another great AMERICAN perspective because we are used to other cultures coming into our country and having to abide by their "rules". THIS IS KOREA, how many times can I say this. Adjusting to cultures is polite AND EXPECTED, not doing so is disrespectful, that is life. You either are American, or you agree with that.
Yeah, embrace other cultures, don't question anything and don't try to understand eachother. If you're in another country, follow their social rules. Throw rocks at gay people until they die, bow to your "superiors", do everything in your power to get rich - stepping on as many toes as you possibly can, censor the internet, kill people trying to cross the border, hand out the death penalty, openly carry guns, use kids as soldiers, start wars over oil, don't learn english.. the list goes on and on... There are just so many cultural differences i'm just dying to embrace and make my own. NO, that's not how it works, people need to accept that different people have different culture and that those cultural things should never be forced upon someone who doesn't agree with them!
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On December 14 2011 05:37 iG.Forever wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:36 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 05:33 Halcyondaze wrote:
THIS IS KOREA, how many times can I say this. Adjusting to cultures is polite AND EXPECTED, not doing so is disrespectful, that is life. You either are American, or you agree with that.
did you even read what I said? Naniwa should try and abide by the rules, but this fucker barely figures out ours much less Koreas. I'm sayign Koreans should ALSO adjust to ours, and not overract and take personally something that wasn't supposed to be disrespectful. If sneezing is fucking rude in Japan, and I go there not knowing that, and I sneeze. The japanese reaction should not be OMFG YOU SNEEZED FUCK YOU. It should be, dude sneezings not cool here, could you really not sneeze, if you do people will think its a big fuck you. Then I go: Oh my bad, I'll try not to sneeze. That's how basic communictation works. RIght now the Korean reaction is OMFG YOU SNEEZED FUCK YOU. but the thing is, esports is centered in korea. thats like saying one asian kid goes to NBA and the entire NBA should adjust to that asian kid.
You can't talk sense to that "logic" (If you can even call it that). There is literally no hope for this type of thinking, it is so deep seeded, you would need 5 of the best psychiatrists in the world to tell this guy he's an idiot and he would just think that they are wrong
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This really shows the difference between foreign perception of ESPORTS and the korean perception. koreans have spent over a decade shaping starcraft into an nationally accepted sport. for ANY player to throw games is just unacceptable. Remember when Bratok and stephano tried to lose at assembly so they wouldn't have to play Sen? the koreans blew up at that as well. just because the game doesnt matter doesnt mean one of the players should just decide to not give a shit. This is why Korean opinion of foreigners have always been so low.
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On December 14 2011 05:40 Halcyondaze wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:36 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 05:33 Halcyondaze wrote:
THIS IS KOREA, how many times can I say this. Adjusting to cultures is polite AND EXPECTED, not doing so is disrespectful, that is life. You either are American, or you agree with that.
did you even read what I said? Naniwa should try and abide by the rules, but this fucker barely figures out ours much less Koreas. I'm sayign Koreans should ALSO adjust to ours, and not overract and take personally something that wasn't supposed to be disrespectful. If sneezing is fucking rude in Japan, and I go there not knowing that, and I sneeze. The japanese reaction should not be OMFG YOU SNEEZED FUCK YOU. It should be, dude sneezings not cool here, could you really not sneeze, if you do people will think its a big fuck you. Then I go: Oh my bad, I'll try not to sneeze. That's how basic communictation works. RIght now the Korean reaction is OMFG YOU SNEEZED FUCK YOU. So what you are saying is that The entire Korean SC2 Scene, along with the tournament organizers who invited Naniwa to this tournament should not overreact to something that they find HIGHLY disrespectful. Your sneezing analogy is so ignorant I can't even comment on how wrong that train of thought is. It is beyond words. "That's how basic communication works" HOLY FUCK, I can't even believe that there are people like you in this world, it is amazing
ROFL, you sound mad kid. SO suddenly I'm retarded for saying that when multiple cultures are involved. THat if someone from another culture, doesn't know its offensive, and does it. He should be demonized for doing so instead of being told that it's offensive and making sure offtense was intended before going apeshit over it?
if I was in his shoes, I wouldn't of expected a probe rush to blow up like this. Why? Because in my culture, its not disrespectful. But, you know what? If I ever go play in the GSL in Korea, I'm sure as shit not gonna be probe rushing anyone. Why? Because now I know people are gonna get pissed over it and its disrespectful.
Theres a reason why the bible says things like people can't go to hell if nobody bothered telling them about Jesus and hell in the first place.
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On December 14 2011 05:43 laggikoN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:33 Halcyondaze wrote:On December 14 2011 05:27 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 05:21 Halcyondaze wrote:On December 14 2011 05:18 Russano wrote:
I still don't find this "disrespectful". If you want to make a case for it being disrespectful for the fans, sure, but how in the world is it disrespectful to NesTea? See the thing is you are American, with an American Perspective. This is HIGHLY disrespectful to do something of this nature. To say I don't even respect you enough as a player to show you a real game. Simply, what he is saying is Naniwa's time is more important than Nestea's time. When it was even Nestea's birthday, yet he was willing to prepare and show good games because that is what he is expected to do The problem here is. It's on the person receiving the offense, to be offended. The "foreign" perspectieve for lack of a better term, doesn't see this as disrespectful. While it would be good of naniwa to try to adjust for the culture and not cause any offense. The korean stand point should realize that the foreigner didn't intend it as disrespect, and that they can take the high road and forgive it. THe proper response here, is for the Koreans to tell Naniwa that they frown on this kind of thing, tell him not to do it again, and for him to say I'm sorry I did it, and everyone moves on. Not this stupid shitstorm saying he doesn't deserve to be a progamer. That is another great AMERICAN perspective because we are used to other cultures coming into our country and having to abide by their "rules". THIS IS KOREA, how many times can I say this. Adjusting to cultures is polite AND EXPECTED, not doing so is disrespectful, that is life. You either are American, or you agree with that. Yeah, embrace other cultures, don't question anything and don't try to understand eachother. If you're in another country, follow their social rules. Throw rocks at gay people until they die, bow to your "superiors", do everything in your power to get rich - stepping on as many toes as you possibly can, censor the internet, kill people trying to cross the border, hand out the death penalty, openly carry guns, use kids as soldiers, start wars over oil, don't learn english.. the list goes on and on... There are just so many cultural differences i'm just dying to embrace and make my own. NO, that's not how it works, people need to accept that different people have different culture and that those cultural things should never be forced upon someone who doesn't agree with them!
It is surprising that with US history that the majority of US thinking is along the previously stated lines. It literally makes 0 sense. I have no answer to it
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Yeah.... I'm the fucking idiot here for preaching people should try and tolerate other cultures and be open minded. GO fuck yourself.
User was warned for this post
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On December 14 2011 05:36 mnck wrote:
So when NaDa throws a game against IdrA in GSL its fine because he tries to disguise it with a terribly executed thor allin it's fine, but when Naniwa is being obvious about throwing games, then its a disgrace? It's a disgrace to the players to tell them to play their best when there's virtually nothing on the line. It's like the ultimate example of GOM being disgusted that their attempt to get extra free content out of a meaningless game and hyping it to some sort of "epic grudge match" between two players who really want to beat each other.
I really have to take Naniwa's side of this incident. It's not really worth his time or effort to try and play a game. And I have full respect for him not doing like everyone else does and playing a terrible game, but playing it out. I don't want fake competition, I wanna see both players play a game with a lot on the line, else its meaningless to play a staged match.
What is wrong with you people and claiming throwing games? Nada did not throw the game to Idra, he legitimately lost. Nestea did not throw his game to MVP, he legitimately lost. Naniwa clearly threw his games vs nestea. Stop trying to defend what he did by saying other players threw games when they clearly did not. Weather you think what naniwa did is ok or excusable or not is your opinion which you are entitled to, but stop trying to make up cases of other players throwing games when they did no such thing.
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On December 14 2011 05:22 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
No one should be "punished" for bad manners. These are not little babies with their mommies playing flag football. This is a professional sport. NaniWa should be able to tell NesTea to suck a you-know-what if he wants, and the fans can get pissy, but there should be no punishment (as long as he says it off-air).
Furthermore, this is ridiculous that you people really expect him to care about a game that doesn't matter at ALL. Or to give you bullshit token lip service of pretending he cares so that you can feel secure in knowing that the sanctity of "the spirit of competition and mutual respect" is protected. Grow the fuck up and welcome to the real world. People aren't playing for your entertainment or because they love the game. Some of them are, and we all love them for it. Most of them are playing for the cash and that's it. They don't give a shit about you, or the competition, or the game, they care about winning and making money. I actually find that attitude refreshing. The "I don't care about all that shit, I want to win" mentality.
Ya'll sound rigoddamndiculous.
Community interest creates incentive for sponsors to sponsor teams... teams that employ players... Players are brands unto themselves, and damaging that brand is bad for all of those involved.
When fans lose respect for a player it means tangible monetary loss for the player or the team. Why the FUCK do you think everyone is pissed? Because of "mutual respect"? No, it's because these people stake their families' livelihoods on this game and he actively spits on that with his actions. Grow the fuck up and realize that people throw a shitstorm because it has a real effect on that player, and that people believe the scene, and all of those whose lives revolve around that scene, deserve better.
Sorry... but the "winning is all that counts" mentality is detrimental to every party. If winning is all that counts then why not just decline to play the last game? PLAYING the game and throwing it away on an internationally streamed event is ACTIVELY disrespecting
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On December 14 2011 05:46 Russano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:40 Halcyondaze wrote:On December 14 2011 05:36 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 05:33 Halcyondaze wrote:
THIS IS KOREA, how many times can I say this. Adjusting to cultures is polite AND EXPECTED, not doing so is disrespectful, that is life. You either are American, or you agree with that.
did you even read what I said? Naniwa should try and abide by the rules, but this fucker barely figures out ours much less Koreas. I'm sayign Koreans should ALSO adjust to ours, and not overract and take personally something that wasn't supposed to be disrespectful. If sneezing is fucking rude in Japan, and I go there not knowing that, and I sneeze. The japanese reaction should not be OMFG YOU SNEEZED FUCK YOU. It should be, dude sneezings not cool here, could you really not sneeze, if you do people will think its a big fuck you. Then I go: Oh my bad, I'll try not to sneeze. That's how basic communictation works. RIght now the Korean reaction is OMFG YOU SNEEZED FUCK YOU. So what you are saying is that The entire Korean SC2 Scene, along with the tournament organizers who invited Naniwa to this tournament should not overreact to something that they find HIGHLY disrespectful. Your sneezing analogy is so ignorant I can't even comment on how wrong that train of thought is. It is beyond words. "That's how basic communication works" HOLY FUCK, I can't even believe that there are people like you in this world, it is amazing ROFL, you sound mad kid. SO suddenly I'm retarded for saying that when multiple cultures are involved. THat if someone from another culture, doesn't know its offensive, and does it. He should be demonized for doing so instead of being told that it's offensive and making sure offtense was intended before going apeshit over it? if I was in his shoes, I wouldn't of expected a probe rush to blow up like this. Why? Because in my culture, its not disrespectful. But, you know what? If I ever go play in the GSL in Korea, I'm sure as shit not gonna be probe rushing anyone. Why? Because now I know people are gonna get pissed over it and its disrespectful. Theres a reason why the bible says things like people can't go to hell if nobody bothered telling them about Jesus and hell in the first place.
Wow, you are actually more confused than I thought you were. I'm done, there is no getting through your thick skull
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Although the way he did what he did was very bad, I can't help but to sympathize with him or understand him a little. It was disrespectful to Nestea the most, but the Koreans calling him trash are overreacting. Choya calling him a bastard even lol!
He should have just 4-gated and let nestea scout it, fail and die.
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On December 14 2011 05:46 Russano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:40 Halcyondaze wrote:On December 14 2011 05:36 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 05:33 Halcyondaze wrote:
THIS IS KOREA, how many times can I say this. Adjusting to cultures is polite AND EXPECTED, not doing so is disrespectful, that is life. You either are American, or you agree with that.
did you even read what I said? Naniwa should try and abide by the rules, but this fucker barely figures out ours much less Koreas. I'm sayign Koreans should ALSO adjust to ours, and not overract and take personally something that wasn't supposed to be disrespectful. If sneezing is fucking rude in Japan, and I go there not knowing that, and I sneeze. The japanese reaction should not be OMFG YOU SNEEZED FUCK YOU. It should be, dude sneezings not cool here, could you really not sneeze, if you do people will think its a big fuck you. Then I go: Oh my bad, I'll try not to sneeze. That's how basic communictation works. RIght now the Korean reaction is OMFG YOU SNEEZED FUCK YOU. So what you are saying is that The entire Korean SC2 Scene, along with the tournament organizers who invited Naniwa to this tournament should not overreact to something that they find HIGHLY disrespectful. Your sneezing analogy is so ignorant I can't even comment on how wrong that train of thought is. It is beyond words. "That's how basic communication works" HOLY FUCK, I can't even believe that there are people like you in this world, it is amazing ROFL, you sound mad kid. SO suddenly I'm retarded for saying that when multiple cultures are involved. THat if someone from another culture, doesn't know its offensive, and does it. He should be demonized for doing so instead of being told that it's offensive and making sure offtense was intended before going apeshit over it? if I was in his shoes, I wouldn't of expected a probe rush to blow up like this. Why? Because in my culture, its not disrespectful. But, you know what? If I ever go play in the GSL in Korea, I'm sure as shit not gonna be probe rushing anyone. Why? Because now I know people are gonna get pissed over it and its disrespectful. Theres a reason why the bible says things like people can't go to hell if nobody bothered telling them about Jesus and hell in the first place.
I was about to make a rebuttal... but you just called yourself a retard xDDDD
You're such a wonderful troll  Why the hell else would you bring the BIBLE into an ESPORTS discussion...
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EPT
