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On December 14 2011 04:35 Denzil wrote:
The interesting thing about this is Naniwa didn't want to beat NesTea to be able to say I beat one of if not the best Zerg in the world, and it wasn't a fluke. Of course it's nice not to be 0-4 but for someone as competitive as him I find it strange that he wouldn't want to challenge the best Korean Zerg (possibly)
The tweet about Idra made me laugh.
I like Naniwa don't get me wrong, getting second place at Homestory and not celebrating made me truely realize that this guy doesn't live for money or fame, he lives to be the best in what he does and reach the goals he knows he can reach. Korea will have a hard time understanding him, but they had a hard time understanding Greg so all is not lost.
Sums up how I feel about it.
Nani is a very insular character it seems like. Very focused on his goals with little care for what's going on around him. Not a bad thing by any stretch given the field he's working in.
Honestly, if he was done and didn't feel like playing it out, then he was done. Any full game he tried to play would have been a farce anyway. I take no issue with what he did. It's not the best, but he knows his mental condition better than anyone else and he seemed pretty defeated after those losses.
I think most people need to get through their head that sometimes when you compete win/loss doesn't really matter, hell the GAME doesn't matter. It becomes about your self-knowledge and experience. I've been crushing through a racquetball tournament before and been up in score and gotten really hungry and told the guy I was playing in the finals, listen I've been playing for 5 hours straight pretty much and I haven't had a bite to eat, (I was already up 1 game with this one won) if you can go 7-0 on the next game without me scoring a point I'll call it. I proceeded to play my heart out and then without issue at 7-0 forfeit the game and go get food. I'd already proven to myself I could win, and at that instant I no longer cared about the win. It didn't matter. Regardless of the results there was that instant where I knew, and my opponent knew, I was the better player. That was enough for me. The test was over.
For Naniwa I feel like, in his head, he was done for the day. If that's the case, then he made the right call.
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On December 14 2011 05:03 Let it Raine wrote:
naniwa is a boss at starting controversy
id have done the same thing in his shoes
if there's no point in playing the game, why is it being played at all
there's a difference between for fun matches and matches you have to play for no reason because that's the tournament structure
Well, I don't know if I'd had the ball to do that, but I think it is very easy to understand. Any competition that makes players play games with no outcome should just consider its system flawed. Pools in MLG give you a higher standing in the tournament bracket, those in GSL Code S put you at different rounds in the code A bracket depending on your finish. Those pools however had no loser bracket, and thus the competition was over before Naniwa even entered this booth.
So my opinion is that it was GomTV's fault, this match should not have even existed.
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On December 14 2011 04:59 Russano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 04:55 Sandster wrote:On December 14 2011 04:52 tlin wrote:On December 14 2011 04:47 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:
This is the difference between Naniwa an NesTea: NesTea would try to win anyway. Nani is just a child with no fighting spirit. "I wanted to show an entertaining match but HuK took it serious so I was caught off guard" - NesTea That's how much he would "try to win" in showmatches. But he played. For the fans. It's like taking the Brood War All-Stars games seriously (FYI - the games start out funny with everyone laughing but eventually turn serious). Naniwa said fuck you to the fans and everyone involved. and if you asked him to play a showmatch wtih a NesTea to settle their "rivalry" specifically as a thing for the fans, how do you know he wouldn't agree to it. They just straight up made him play a game he didn't want to, so he ended it the fastest way he knew how that actually involved an action (FYI more forfeitures end with worker rushes). He's not obgligated to entertain people 100 percent of the time.
If he is not playing to entertain us then what is he playing for?
ESports would be nothing without fans, people would just be #1 on ladder and have tournaments for honor.
I saw here that he was paid 900$ for his attendance to this tournament.
Like I said a singer/DJ cant just stop a performance because he is pissed off, because they are paid already/have a contract.
Think of all the backlash when players walk out on their contract(Alexei Yashin for you hockey fans). He held out 3 years, could have been one of the better players of his time. Instead by the time the backlash had cooled off, Ottawa didn't want him anymore, and he scratched out a few seasons with NY before going back to Russia.
ESports is entertainment/sports not just electronic sports so both these examples apply.
NaniWa was contractually obliged to play this game(otherwise im sure he would have no-showed), and decided to flout it in our faces that he couldn't give a rat's ass about playing.
I read one comment about how desperate he was to get home and practice....oh yeah sure, so DESPERATE that he didn't wanna have a PRACTICE game against NesTea the best zerg ATM?
Stop being an enabler!
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On December 14 2011 05:00 GreyKnight wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 04:55 GrungyMunchy wrote:On December 14 2011 04:53 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:On December 14 2011 04:50 GrungyMunchy wrote:On December 14 2011 04:41 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:On December 14 2011 04:34 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 04:32 The_LiNk wrote:On December 14 2011 04:26 Sea_Food wrote:On December 14 2011 04:19 The_LiNk wrote:On December 14 2011 04:09 Sea_Food wrote:
You could edit this at the end of OP
TL;DR
Some Koreans do not understand that there are people in the world with different cultures. That happens when a nation does not have enough immigrants. People there will not learn to respect other cultures within their own borders. Understanding cultures go both ways. You expect Koreans to understand Naniwa's "Western" culture of winning but you do not understand the Korean culture of respect. So ironic. Last time I checked, "fighting to the bitter end" thing is very prevalent in Western cultures. 300 and Spartans and all. Naniwa was in pissed off, so there is a reason why he dosnt act respectfully. And FYI. 300 spartans was not a documentary. 300 spartans never did kill 10 000 persians. If you havent stayed awake during history lessons, western nations give up before they have only 300 soldiers left. I don't think you understood my reference to 300 and the Spartans. I'm saying how Western culture seems to have some sort of value in fighting to the end because it's the honourable thing to do and how the lore of the Battle of Thermopylae is one of the most celebrated examples of this. Also I don't see how Naniwa being pissed off is an excuse to not act respectfully. Do Western parents really buy the candy for their child just because the child is having a temper tantrum? Yeah they do buy them the candy kinda often, and it really blows. But Naniwa sees the world differently, and probably didn't even conceive that it might be disrespectful. Im' sure he's totally shocked at how much hate he's getting for a fucking probe rush. Reading the interview I cannot see any sign of Naniwa being shocked, he still thinks he did nothing wrong, even if he denied the PAYING STARCRAFT2-FANS a game of NesTea. You think someone who's gonna play against Nestea is thinking about giving good games for the paying Nestea fans? No, they're thinking about winning the game regardless of how they do it. Naniwa, being the guy obsessed with winning that we all know, didn't care about a match that wouldn't decide anything, and acted accordingly. Blizzard Cup isn't a set of showmatches, they're not playing for your entertainment. They're playing to win. Money. A lot of it. It's not about NesTea Fans, read more careful! Well it's not about Naniwa's fans either, neither is about SC2 fans who paid for it. It's about the players only. It's their job. They make a living off of it. They don't need to give a shit about what the fans think, and some of them (like Naniwa) indeed don't give a shit. and yet if people look down on this behavior you have no fans, no living, and nothing left. even if everyone is wrong, naniwa unless he was completely inept at social skills knew there would be enormous backlash against this. these same people make him what he is. point is naniwa didnt have to do this, yes he could've 2 gate proxied and people woulda chuckled and threw it off as oh he's mentally defeated. nobody yelled at hero for his random ass 2base vs DRg yesterday. it's that easy to avoid this drama but instead he chose to do something else and is facing the criticism that could be easily predicted and avoided. honestly, i disagree with the blizz cup format. it's worse when you have a player who's already out playing someone who's still fighting for a seed(hero vs DRG) but hero still played his game out (albeit poorly). i also think that people are overreacting and it's not a HUGE deal. however the behavior speaks volumes about naniwa himself. if he doesnt care about fans or anything apparently as you say then why even make an interview and respond?
Look I don't agree with what Naniwa did. But I can certainly see why he did it. He could play the absolute fucking best PvZ that everyone had ever and would ever see and it wouldn't matter. Why bother honestly? To give some games to the fans? While being under the stress of having been knocked out of the tournament? Anything that he would do would be unproductive and pointless, and I guess the guy just wanted to end it as quickly as possible and go home.
I also don't get this "at least he could have done a proxy 2gate/4gate/cannon rush/etc". Who cares? You think it would make better games? Would it matter if he played a slightly less shitty strategy? For what, respect from the fans? I'm sure they totally wouldn't shit on the guy for doing a cannon rush. Let's be serious here.
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This seems very blown out of proportion and wasn't much more than a ladder match. I agree on Idra and tylers standpoints.
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On December 14 2011 05:04 Xalorian wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 04:59 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 04:55 Sandster wrote:On December 14 2011 04:52 tlin wrote:On December 14 2011 04:47 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:
This is the difference between Naniwa an NesTea: NesTea would try to win anyway. Nani is just a child with no fighting spirit. "I wanted to show an entertaining match but HuK took it serious so I was caught off guard" - NesTea That's how much he would "try to win" in showmatches. But he played. For the fans. It's like taking the Brood War All-Stars games seriously (FYI - the games start out funny with everyone laughing but eventually turn serious). Naniwa said fuck you to the fans and everyone involved. and if you asked him to play a showmatch wtih a NesTea to settle their "rivalry" specifically as a thing for the fans, how do you know he wouldn't agree to it. They just straight up made him play a game he didn't want to, so he ended it the fastest way he knew how that actually involved an action (FYI more forfeitures end with worker rushes). He's not obgligated to entertain people 100 percent of the time. You guys should stop with that stupid argument. Tournament run events because they have sponsors. Sponsors are there because peoples watch the tournaments. People watch tournaments because they want to be entertained. If a player just leave the scene, another one will replace him. If tournaments and sponsors leave the scene, THAT will hurt the scene a lot. Players are not the pillar of eSports... players can be progamers BECAUSE of the pillars : sponsors, tournament and viewer. If a player don't want to play is best for the viewers and for the sponsors, he should just leave the scene, because that's what the scene is all about. That's why there is a scene in the first place.
I completely disagree wtih this. IMO the most important thing is the comeptition and the game itself. First and formost people play the game, secondly people like watching the game, and 3rd people like to make money off watching the game. They all facilitate the process.
To bring up Kobe again, his work ethic is widely known as the best in basketball, he puts a shit ton into the work he does and absolutely studies the game, if you took away all the money and all the fans, he wouldn't have as much time to put into it, but he'd sure as hell be hitting the gym and playing pickup games. People love the games they play that much. I play starcraft because I love it, not because some nerd enjoys seeing me play, and I can make a little money off it.
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have read all those twitters. im couch. and what nestea says..seems like nestea worked really hard dropping his birthday party too. They seem really work together. im/mvp couch all both. naniwa just dropped game bcs he knew, nestea will (and want) this game so much since last happening in orlando. Even though they seemed nice each other before the game start and naniwa showed in the interview with gom/tl. as officially. but naniwa had other thought in mind. He was tired, and he was thinking. (which is meaningless-> if I borrow his letter). Korean team is heavy/and even scarry, if they gather together. All their mention. and articles seems like. they are disappointed. they practiced hard for this. It's not about the gom rules. or naniwa here invited or not. They prefer respect this show is *shown* for fans. IM/MVP seem get together prefer more fans and manner. In the other hands, naniwa and other european players had their own individual thinking and style. So they really don't care other team thinking, even they have been to.
I have been both, so I cant say which team is better. because I experienced both, bad ways. I say just which I seeing as
objective and generally. Korean team can be also very bad. And what they saying is like (No one commanded to "Nestea", hey you practed to show fans this hard, even dropping your birthday party" in the other hands, Naniwa had interview with skype with TL and 2 hours slept before the game started, and flew 17 hours twice flight changed get to korea from sweden after 10 days vacation, get stucked together with new people(who are all koreans) Maybe there must be also haters, communication problems.
I just think korean people think, this way should be just "This way". And europen people think, many "creative way". Any fan/people judge/talk like gossip or disappointed.
Well, I'm also disappointed. This story not expected me either. Kinda of ugly I guess. But life/social like this I guess.
I just so sorry for Nestea. (Nestea seems also nice/cool person too. happy birthday to you and congraturation to be a "father" and be happy your wife). And so sorry for all Gom staffs. <- Who really worked/prepared so hard all this celebrations.
So sorry for all milions fans from all over the worlds. I also expected Naniwa show his power/ability in this bilizz cup.
Well, so sorry for his power just limited after his 4th game(I guess he was tired, and wanted to have relax)
Just so sorry for keeping talking who are all disappointed(Not happy) who keeping saying/blogging even though the time
is finished like 9 hours now.
Cheer up~!
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On December 14 2011 04:52 tlin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 04:47 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:
This is the difference between Naniwa an NesTea: NesTea would try to win anyway. Nani is just a child with no fighting spirit. "I wanted to show an entertaining match but HuK took it serious so I was caught off guard" - NesTea That's how much he would "try to win" in showmatches.
But at least a match was played. If you know a match won't count then it should be an opportunity to either 1. continue showing your skill and try to win, or 2. try a different/funky/funny strategy since there is NO RISK of losing something important. Naniwa's intentions were clear, he wanted to forfeit the game. If he did just 4 gate that would've been fine, albeit some people would still be mad, at least there wouldn't be any disrespect involved. If you're going to forfeit a game in sports you WILL get a bad response, even if it's justified. By forfeiting a game you disrespect your fans, your sponsors, the tournament, the TV station, the viewers and your team.... that is the truth. Naniwa clearly showed a lack of respect and consideration, which is unfortunate as it's hard to be respected if you don't show any respect yourself. I wish him the best of luck since the path ahead of him just became much rougher.
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Italy12246 Posts
I think both sides are somewhat in the wrong.
I can 100% understand why Naniwa was mad for being out of the tournament, and his decision of not bothering with the last game was to be expected, since as we all know how he gets easily frustrated if he doesn't outright win tournaments. On the other hand, worker rushing was idiotic. If you are going to dick around you might as well improvise a build on the spot, do something you haven't done for months and that doesn't really work but still constitues playing the game, do a brood war build, whatever.
At least if you want to get it over with quick, proxy gate or something, and you won't receive as much backlash while still getting the game over quick. Curious vs Oz in their code a final on Daybreak comes to mind.
On the other hand, all the enraged comments going to him are too much i think. As i said, you have to understand that losing ANYTHING for Naniwa is a HUGE deal that can really hurt him, so wait before insulting him. I'm fine with calling what he did stupid (because it was, no way out of it), but calling him bastard, saying he shouldn't be a progamer or whatever might be too much.
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On December 14 2011 05:07 GeNeSiDe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 04:59 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 04:55 Sandster wrote:On December 14 2011 04:52 tlin wrote:On December 14 2011 04:47 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:
This is the difference between Naniwa an NesTea: NesTea would try to win anyway. Nani is just a child with no fighting spirit. "I wanted to show an entertaining match but HuK took it serious so I was caught off guard" - NesTea That's how much he would "try to win" in showmatches. But he played. For the fans. It's like taking the Brood War All-Stars games seriously (FYI - the games start out funny with everyone laughing but eventually turn serious). Naniwa said fuck you to the fans and everyone involved. and if you asked him to play a showmatch wtih a NesTea to settle their "rivalry" specifically as a thing for the fans, how do you know he wouldn't agree to it. They just straight up made him play a game he didn't want to, so he ended it the fastest way he knew how that actually involved an action (FYI more forfeitures end with worker rushes). He's not obgligated to entertain people 100 percent of the time. If he is not playing to entertain us then what is he playing for? ESports would be nothing without fans, people would just be #1 on ladder and have tournaments for honor. I saw here that he was paid 900$ for his attendance to this tournament. Like I said a singer/DJ cant just stop a performance because he is pissed off, because they are paid already/have a contract. Think of all the backlash when players walk out on their contract(Alexei Yashin for you hockey fans). He held out 3 years, could have been one of the better players of his time. Instead by the time the backlash had cooled off, Ottawa didn't want him anymore, and he scratched out a few seasons with NY before going back to Russia. ESports is entertainment/sports not just electronic sports so both these examples apply. NaniWa was contractually obliged to play this game(otherwise im sure he would have no-showed), and decided to flout it in our faces that he couldn't give a rat's ass about playing. I read one comment about how desperate he was to get home and practice....oh yeah sure, so DESPERATE that he didn't wanna have a PRACTICE game against NesTea the best zerg ATM? Stop being an enabler!
Or when hockey teams inevitably losing in a playoff series resort to head hunting and injuring the other team's top players. Great comparison. If the pointless games didnt exist at all, would you have gone to GOM and complained that there weren't enough matches being played?
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Also, I'm not entirely sure as to why people didn't lose their shit when Stephano threw away 2 games to Cloud in Dreamhack, especially given the fact that throwing those games away actually impacted other people's results, in contrast to Naniwa's worker rush. I guess people like to hate some players more than others.
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On December 14 2011 05:11 Tyrant0 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:07 GeNeSiDe wrote:On December 14 2011 04:59 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 04:55 Sandster wrote:On December 14 2011 04:52 tlin wrote:On December 14 2011 04:47 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:
This is the difference between Naniwa an NesTea: NesTea would try to win anyway. Nani is just a child with no fighting spirit. "I wanted to show an entertaining match but HuK took it serious so I was caught off guard" - NesTea That's how much he would "try to win" in showmatches. But he played. For the fans. It's like taking the Brood War All-Stars games seriously (FYI - the games start out funny with everyone laughing but eventually turn serious). Naniwa said fuck you to the fans and everyone involved. and if you asked him to play a showmatch wtih a NesTea to settle their "rivalry" specifically as a thing for the fans, how do you know he wouldn't agree to it. They just straight up made him play a game he didn't want to, so he ended it the fastest way he knew how that actually involved an action (FYI more forfeitures end with worker rushes). He's not obgligated to entertain people 100 percent of the time. If he is not playing to entertain us then what is he playing for? ESports would be nothing without fans, people would just be #1 on ladder and have tournaments for honor. I saw here that he was paid 900$ for his attendance to this tournament. Like I said a singer/DJ cant just stop a performance because he is pissed off, because they are paid already/have a contract. Think of all the backlash when players walk out on their contract(Alexei Yashin for you hockey fans). He held out 3 years, could have been one of the better players of his time. Instead by the time the backlash had cooled off, Ottawa didn't want him anymore, and he scratched out a few seasons with NY before going back to Russia. ESports is entertainment/sports not just electronic sports so both these examples apply. NaniWa was contractually obliged to play this game(otherwise im sure he would have no-showed), and decided to flout it in our faces that he couldn't give a rat's ass about playing. I read one comment about how desperate he was to get home and practice....oh yeah sure, so DESPERATE that he didn't wanna have a PRACTICE game against NesTea the best zerg ATM? Stop being an enabler! Or when hockey teams inevitably losing in a playoff series resort to head hunting and injuring the other team's top players. Great comparison. If the pointless games didnt exist at all, would you have gone to GOM and complained that there weren't enough matches being played?
Players always play in "pointless games", including Nani. The issue he had was that he was expected to play 30 minutes after a major loss. If the game had been played the next day, Nani likely would have played a full game with few problems.
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On December 14 2011 05:07 GeNeSiDe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 04:59 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 04:55 Sandster wrote:On December 14 2011 04:52 tlin wrote:On December 14 2011 04:47 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:
This is the difference between Naniwa an NesTea: NesTea would try to win anyway. Nani is just a child with no fighting spirit. "I wanted to show an entertaining match but HuK took it serious so I was caught off guard" - NesTea That's how much he would "try to win" in showmatches. But he played. For the fans. It's like taking the Brood War All-Stars games seriously (FYI - the games start out funny with everyone laughing but eventually turn serious). Naniwa said fuck you to the fans and everyone involved. and if you asked him to play a showmatch wtih a NesTea to settle their "rivalry" specifically as a thing for the fans, how do you know he wouldn't agree to it. They just straight up made him play a game he didn't want to, so he ended it the fastest way he knew how that actually involved an action (FYI more forfeitures end with worker rushes). He's not obgligated to entertain people 100 percent of the time. If he is not playing to entertain us then what is he playing for? ESports would be nothing without fans, people would just be #1 on ladder and have tournaments for honor. I saw here that he was paid 900$ for his attendance to this tournament. Like I said a singer/DJ cant just stop a performance because he is pissed off, because they are paid already/have a contract. Think of all the backlash when players walk out on their contract(Alexei Yashin for you hockey fans). He held out 3 years, could have been one of the better players of his time. Instead by the time the backlash had cooled off, Ottawa didn't want him anymore, and he scratched out a few seasons with NY before going back to Russia. ESports is entertainment/sports not just electronic sports so both these examples apply. NaniWa was contractually obliged to play this game(otherwise im sure he would have no-showed), and decided to flout it in our faces that he couldn't give a rat's ass about playing. I read one comment about how desperate he was to get home and practice....oh yeah sure, so DESPERATE that he didn't wanna have a PRACTICE game against NesTea the best zerg ATM? Stop being an enabler!
This I disagree with. We don't "own" them. It's a mutual relationship. Naniwa is playing to win, or improve. Given the games and the way he must have been feeling I can't imagine that he felt he could gain anything from the game, and winning was already out of the question.
You become a fan because of how a player plays. NOT based on what they're DOING for you as a spectator. All that is just bells and whistles and very nice of certain players, but by no means should that be the standard. I enjoy watching Nani's games, outside of that I don't really consider much. Naniwa isn't playing for ME or my entertainment, nor would I ever expect him to. He should always play for himself, first and foremost, which he did (or rather didn't) during that game.
This whole thing is ridiculous.
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I dont know what else to say but that the sc2 community, obviously more true for korea but its not unique to them, is too sensationalistic, too puritanical, and just take things too seriously. Every single thing that falls from perfect standards gets a "you bastard! your destroying esports!!!". This is a ridiculous and offensive article, what is the matter with them [the site]?
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On December 14 2011 05:07 GeNeSiDe wrote:
He's playing to be the best, and to show he's the best. In his eyes, this game was totally meaningless, and I agree with him. The game fucking didn't matter. NONE of the integrity of the competition was compromised. As much as I disagree wtih the choice of not trying your hardest, I find it slightly more admirable to blatantly show a game that was clearly aforfeiture rather then half ass it and go SEE NANIWA SUCKS NESTEA IS AWESOM AHAHAHAHHA!!!. I don't expect players to fake a game just for me, the same way I don't expect a girl to fake a fucking orgasm. I'd rather she just didnt at all then find out she faked it.
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On December 14 2011 05:01 GrungyMunchy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 04:58 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:On December 14 2011 04:54 Switchy wrote:
How many people here would actually be in the mental state to try to play a good game (thats meaningless) after being knocked out 30min earlier? Its 30 minutes after being knocked out of a tournament you had really high hopes for. 30 minutes is REALLY SHORT. damn hypocrites He knew the rules before and he accepted them. P.S.: This thread wont make me a Naniwa-hater, but it shapes my opinion of Naniwa-fanboys. Wow you look like a netizen cliché right now, not everybody is either a Naniwa-hater or a Naniwa-fanboy.
That's exactly what I stated a few pages before. And I added naniwa thinks everyone cares about him either negative or positive, which just isn't the case.
Everything I want to point out that playing a worker rush, is throwing the game away and in the conclusion means disrespecting the enemy hard. If he played a fourgate or 2-gate all-in, he would have had a small chance to win and nobody would have felt bad. But disrespecting any Pro who doesn't BM ever, is not fair an shouldn't be supported by anyone. Indeed the quality of this case makes me wonder if Naniwa shouldn't be punished hard. He was always known for BM and he never improved his mindset as it seems.
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On December 14 2011 05:09 Russano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:04 Xalorian wrote:On December 14 2011 04:59 Russano wrote:On December 14 2011 04:55 Sandster wrote:On December 14 2011 04:52 tlin wrote:On December 14 2011 04:47 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:
This is the difference between Naniwa an NesTea: NesTea would try to win anyway. Nani is just a child with no fighting spirit. "I wanted to show an entertaining match but HuK took it serious so I was caught off guard" - NesTea That's how much he would "try to win" in showmatches. But he played. For the fans. It's like taking the Brood War All-Stars games seriously (FYI - the games start out funny with everyone laughing but eventually turn serious). Naniwa said fuck you to the fans and everyone involved. and if you asked him to play a showmatch wtih a NesTea to settle their "rivalry" specifically as a thing for the fans, how do you know he wouldn't agree to it. They just straight up made him play a game he didn't want to, so he ended it the fastest way he knew how that actually involved an action (FYI more forfeitures end with worker rushes). He's not obgligated to entertain people 100 percent of the time. You guys should stop with that stupid argument. Tournament run events because they have sponsors. Sponsors are there because peoples watch the tournaments. People watch tournaments because they want to be entertained. If a player just leave the scene, another one will replace him. If tournaments and sponsors leave the scene, THAT will hurt the scene a lot. Players are not the pillar of eSports... players can be progamers BECAUSE of the pillars : sponsors, tournament and viewer. If a player don't want to play is best for the viewers and for the sponsors, he should just leave the scene, because that's what the scene is all about. That's why there is a scene in the first place. I completely disagree wtih this. IMO the most important thing is the comeptition and the game itself. First and formost people play the game, secondly people like watching the game, and 3rd people like to make money off watching the game. They all facilitate the process. To bring up Kobe again, his work ethic is widely known as the best in basketball, he puts a shit ton into the work he does and absolutely studies the game, if you took away all the money and all the fans, he wouldn't have as much time to put into it, but he'd sure as hell be hitting the gym and playing pickup games. People love the games they play that much. I play starcraft because I love it, not because some nerd enjoys seeing me play, and I can make a little money off it.
The only reasons they can train that much is because they gain money. The only reason they gain money is because we want to watch them, therefore sponsor are paying money, not because they are good or whatever. It's a fact.
Some people are really fucking great at Dawn of War and put many many hours and training in it, and it's fine. But they are not pro-gamers and they don't make money out of it, because there is no scene. That's what SC2 would be about if it was not for the casters, for the tournaments, for the community, etc. Success of a game as a eSports have way more to do with the players actual skills than with the community, and everything. If Naniwa was not a pro-gamers, another one would have the spot... because the scene is so big, than there is a shit ton of players that want to be pro-gamer... therefore there is a lot of pro-gamers, with skills...
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Progaming and it's etiquette is how these people LIVE. It's what they bet their LIVES on... how could you blame them for being angry?
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On December 13 2011 22:46 Zalithian wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:46 robih wrote:
its just pathetic how they make a big deal out of nothing It's just pathetic that people like Naniwa still can't show respect for others.
He is just narcissistic. There is no way to change a person like that. You either support him because he DOES have talent, or you disown him because you don't agree with how he is as a person. Simple as that. Idra's "style" if you want to call it that, is never really unjustified (depending on your perspective). But Naniwa obviously has some social, if not deeper seeded mental issues that he needs to sort out on his own time. I wish that he would realize that, but there is no better chance of that happening than world peace, so I hereby bid adieu to Naniwa because if this behavior continues he will lose most all of his following.
Also it is important to consider that life situations have GREAT impact on player performance i.e. Idra after moving into EG house, working out, being more relaxed in general (at least to the public). So if you are a Naniwa fan, you should be in massive support of this player rethinking his outlook on life. That is all. GL Naniwa, you have amazing talent but will do nothing but under preform until you sort this out.
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I still don't find this "disrespectful". If you want to make a case for it being disrespectful for the fans, sure, but how in the world is it disrespectful to NesTea?
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EPT
