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An article on Naniwa from Thisisgame - Page 47

Forum Index > SC2 General
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MasterBlasterCaster
Profile Joined October 2011
United States568 Posts
December 13 2011 19:48 GMT
#921
Dude... ESports is starting to get really whiny. Ya'll should just chill the fuck out... do you really have to BE a stereotype?
miniwheats
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada187 Posts
December 13 2011 19:48 GMT
#922
I really wanted to see Naniwa & Nestea go at it, so I'm disappointed Also, even if they were already knocked out, wouldn't it be amazing for Naniwa if he wrecked Nestea? Wouldn't he feel great? It could still be a great game with lots of publicity too, maybe not as much as now but it would be positive. Pretty sure an attitude change would be beneficial for HIM. Not saying that's easy. I'm pretty messed up myself.
"Don't disturb my Circles!" -Archimedes
GeNeSiDe
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom354 Posts
December 13 2011 19:49 GMT
#923
And this is a lack of charisma right here

http://soundcloud.com/eastmanmusic Check out my latest sc2 song "Masters League!"
Stress
Profile Joined February 2011
United States980 Posts
December 13 2011 19:49 GMT
#924
The vibe I am getting from this article is that some people feel certain "strategies" should be banned, i.e. harvester rushing? This whole thing is ridiculous and I personally don't see why it is such a big deal to a lot of people. The match was pointless to play and neither player had an incentive to play it out.
"Touch my gosu hands." - Tastosis | | fOrGG // MC // Jaedong
Ryps
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Romania2740 Posts
December 13 2011 19:49 GMT
#925
People keep saying no one cared for the game because they were eliminated dont understand that Nestea practiced even on his birthday late at night specifically for the Naniwa game; MVP said so on his twitter

So Nestea would have played his fullest even if Naniwa would have not.
Russano
Profile Joined November 2010
United States434 Posts
December 13 2011 19:50 GMT
#926
On December 14 2011 04:41 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:


Reading the interview I cannot see any sign of Naniwa being shocked, he still thinks he did nothing wrong, even if he denied the PAYING STARCRAFT2-FANS a game of NesTea.


were you expecting him to answer wtih OMG WHY THE FUCK IS EVERYONE MAD?!?!? Naniwa isn't exactly known for being the most animated of interviwees.
rd
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2586 Posts
December 13 2011 19:50 GMT
#927
On December 14 2011 04:47 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 04:39 ZAiNs wrote:
On December 14 2011 04:37 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:
"People are just hating because it's me who did it."

Naniwa really seems to think all people all over the world are either hating or loving him. But Naniwa there are still people who don't give a shit about you. I just wanted to see another ZvP of NesTea and I paid for it. So I really hope you drop off eSports for hurting it so much.

Why would you want to see a bullshit PvZ where neither player is trying their hardest?


This is the difference between Naniwa an NesTea: NesTea would try to win anyway. Nani is just a child with no fighting spirit.


But if Naniwa 4 gated, failed horribly and gg'd immediately then he was fighting with the spirit of a champion and it was worth your money. For all you know Nestea intended to throw it with the intentions of entertainment value.

Also, blizzcon.
Sandster
Profile Joined November 2006
United States4054 Posts
December 13 2011 19:50 GMT
#928
On December 14 2011 04:40 DarK[A] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 23:29 setmeal wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:26 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:12 zul wrote:
Naniwa responds on twitter: "apparently people got upset when i probe rushed nestea, the game was pointless and it couldnt change anything in the tournament."

people who bought the HD Pass just to see good games from him, will not approve of this behavior.

The people who bought the HD Pass knew the format of the tournament and knew that it allowed for inconsequential games. Without the incentive of winning a tournament, progamers should not try to win. No one is good enough to waste their best effort on inconsequential games, especially with how many major tournaments there are nowadays. Whatever the best strategy Naniwa had in mind for the game, he should not use it. What irrational people want and expect is for the players to put on a false show of a competition, where they both seem to be trying enough for viewers to successfully suspend their disbelief. Such people don't constitute a significant enough part of the community to justify this huge reaction.


Tyler said it best right here. I think that many people just don't have any empathy for how hard it is to be a pro gamer.


Really? How "hard" it is to be a pro gamer? You've got hundreds of thousands of nerds who would give anything to be in your shoes. You're playing a video game for money. Go talk to all of the unemployed recent college graduates about how hard your lives are. Go whine about all of the expectations placed on you by the community to the guy who just lost his office job and doesn't know how he's going to pay the mortgage next month.

Honestly, talk about people acting fucking entitled.

NOTE: wasn't meant to be completely directed AT YOU, setmeal... just at the general idea.


Um what. Doing any fan-based activity for a career is hard as shit because of the nature of competition. SC pros practice 10-14 hours EVERY DAY.

And don't pretend appearances don't matter. The world is full of norms (many of which upon further inspection are stupid). You don't show up to work unkempt and unshowered. You don't go to an office job in t-shirt and sneakers, even if you're not seeing clients. You don't chew with your mouth open in America, but you can in China. You're expected to give up your seat for an old lady. You can be the best in the world but if you alienate everyone around you, you're going to catch flak for it.

It's especially bad in sports/entertainment because these people represent a team/company and their services are enjoyed by fans. I mean, Kanye was just speaking his mind when he interrupted Taylor Swift on stage; he technically didn't do anything wrong either. Not understanding social norms is a big no-no.
howLiN
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Portugal1676 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-13 19:51:13
December 13 2011 19:50 GMT
#929
On December 14 2011 04:41 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 04:34 Russano wrote:
On December 14 2011 04:32 The_LiNk wrote:
On December 14 2011 04:26 Sea_Food wrote:
On December 14 2011 04:19 The_LiNk wrote:
On December 14 2011 04:09 Sea_Food wrote:
You could edit this at the end of OP

TL;DR

Some Koreans do not understand that there are people in the world with different cultures. That happens when a nation does not have enough immigrants. People there will not learn to respect other cultures within their own borders.


Understanding cultures go both ways. You expect Koreans to understand Naniwa's "Western" culture of winning but you do not understand the Korean culture of respect. So ironic.

Last time I checked, "fighting to the bitter end" thing is very prevalent in Western cultures. 300 and Spartans and all.


Naniwa was in pissed off, so there is a reason why he dosnt act respectfully.


And FYI. 300 spartans was not a documentary. 300 spartans never did kill 10 000 persians. If you havent stayed awake during history lessons, western nations give up before they have only 300 soldiers left.


I don't think you understood my reference to 300 and the Spartans. I'm saying how Western culture seems to have some sort of value in fighting to the end because it's the honourable thing to do and how the lore of the Battle of Thermopylae is one of the most celebrated examples of this.

Also I don't see how Naniwa being pissed off is an excuse to not act respectfully. Do Western parents really buy the candy for their child just because the child is having a temper tantrum?


Yeah they do buy them the candy kinda often, and it really blows. But Naniwa sees the world differently, and probably didn't even conceive that it might be disrespectful. Im' sure he's totally shocked at how much hate he's getting for a fucking probe rush.


Reading the interview I cannot see any sign of Naniwa being shocked, he still thinks he did nothing wrong, even if he denied the PAYING STARCRAFT2-FANS a game of NesTea.

You think someone who's gonna play against Nestea is thinking about giving good games for the paying Nestea fans? No, they're thinking about winning the game regardless of how they do it. Naniwa, being the guy obsessed with winning that we all know, didn't care about a match that wouldn't decide anything, and acted accordingly. Blizzard Cup isn't a set of showmatches, they're not playing for your entertainment. They're playing to win. Money. A lot of it.
SafeAsCheese
Profile Joined June 2011
United States4924 Posts
December 13 2011 19:51 GMT
#930
On December 14 2011 04:49 Ryps wrote:
People keep saying no one cared for the game because they were eliminated dont understand that Nestea practiced even on his birthday late at night specifically for the Naniwa game; MVP said so on his twitter

So Nestea would have played his fullest even if Naniwa would have not.


I think you need to watch mvp vs nestea at blizzcon

Hint : NesTea wasn't trying.
Sneakyz
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden2361 Posts
December 13 2011 19:51 GMT
#931
On December 14 2011 04:41 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 04:34 Russano wrote:
On December 14 2011 04:32 The_LiNk wrote:
On December 14 2011 04:26 Sea_Food wrote:
On December 14 2011 04:19 The_LiNk wrote:
On December 14 2011 04:09 Sea_Food wrote:
You could edit this at the end of OP

TL;DR

Some Koreans do not understand that there are people in the world with different cultures. That happens when a nation does not have enough immigrants. People there will not learn to respect other cultures within their own borders.


Understanding cultures go both ways. You expect Koreans to understand Naniwa's "Western" culture of winning but you do not understand the Korean culture of respect. So ironic.

Last time I checked, "fighting to the bitter end" thing is very prevalent in Western cultures. 300 and Spartans and all.


Naniwa was in pissed off, so there is a reason why he dosnt act respectfully.


And FYI. 300 spartans was not a documentary. 300 spartans never did kill 10 000 persians. If you havent stayed awake during history lessons, western nations give up before they have only 300 soldiers left.


I don't think you understood my reference to 300 and the Spartans. I'm saying how Western culture seems to have some sort of value in fighting to the end because it's the honourable thing to do and how the lore of the Battle of Thermopylae is one of the most celebrated examples of this.

Also I don't see how Naniwa being pissed off is an excuse to not act respectfully. Do Western parents really buy the candy for their child just because the child is having a temper tantrum?


Yeah they do buy them the candy kinda often, and it really blows. But Naniwa sees the world differently, and probably didn't even conceive that it might be disrespectful. Im' sure he's totally shocked at how much hate he's getting for a fucking probe rush.


Reading the interview I cannot see any sign of Naniwa being shocked, he still thinks he did nothing wrong, even if he denied the PAYING STARCRAFT2-FANS a game of NesTea.

So if Naniwa decided that a 2gate proxy would give him a high change to win, there would be nothing wrong?
I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds.
ffadicted
Profile Joined January 2011
United States3545 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-13 19:51:28
December 13 2011 19:51 GMT
#932
On December 14 2011 04:49 Ryps wrote:
People keep saying no one cared for the game because they were eliminated dont understand that Nestea practiced even on his birthday late at night specifically for the Naniwa game; MVP said so on his twitter

So Nestea would have played his fullest even if Naniwa would have not.


lol you act as if naniwa didn't practice and planned to 7 probe rush from the day before. Nestea practiced because he thought the games would mean something, so did Naniwa.
SooYoung-Noona!
Keone
Profile Joined April 2011
United States812 Posts
December 13 2011 19:51 GMT
#933
On December 13 2011 23:02 Lobo2me wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 23:01 Malakov wrote:
It's the last game of World Cup group stage, neither team can make it through to the round of 16. Do you ever see the teams walk out on the field and kick the ball in their own net?

No.

Different game, in the world cup they have to be there for 90 minutes, they can't end it after 2 minutes.

Wow, you've completely missed the point.
BW Forever. Flash is the Ultimate Bonjwa.
OneOddOrange
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada215 Posts
December 13 2011 19:51 GMT
#934
Personally I think what Naniwa did was fine. I would rather see Nani do this then a proxy gate, cannon rush or 4 gate. All which would of had the same outcome and been just as boring to watch. No one is gonna try 100% in a game that actually has no meaning.
mordk
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Chile8385 Posts
December 13 2011 19:52 GMT
#935
On December 14 2011 04:50 Tyrant0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 04:47 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:
On December 14 2011 04:39 ZAiNs wrote:
On December 14 2011 04:37 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:
"People are just hating because it's me who did it."

Naniwa really seems to think all people all over the world are either hating or loving him. But Naniwa there are still people who don't give a shit about you. I just wanted to see another ZvP of NesTea and I paid for it. So I really hope you drop off eSports for hurting it so much.

Why would you want to see a bullshit PvZ where neither player is trying their hardest?


This is the difference between Naniwa an NesTea: NesTea would try to win anyway. Nani is just a child with no fighting spirit.


But if Naniwa 4 gated, failed horribly and gg'd immediately then he was fighting with the spirit of a champion and it was worth your money. For all you know Nestea intended to throw it with the intentions of entertainment value.

Also, blizzcon.

Blizzcon is just pure baseless speculation. That match-fixing thing is ridiculous hahahah, I just laugh at it. NesTea just Zergbonged that game, just like he zergbonged his games agains Huk in the GSL.
tlin
Profile Joined December 2011
25 Posts
December 13 2011 19:52 GMT
#936
On December 14 2011 04:47 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:
This is the difference between Naniwa an NesTea: NesTea would try to win anyway. Nani is just a child with no fighting spirit.

"I wanted to show an entertaining match but HuK took it serious so I was caught off guard" - NesTea
That's how much he would "try to win" in showmatches.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
December 13 2011 19:52 GMT
#937
On December 14 2011 04:40 DarK[A] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 23:29 setmeal wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:26 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:12 zul wrote:
Naniwa responds on twitter: "apparently people got upset when i probe rushed nestea, the game was pointless and it couldnt change anything in the tournament."

people who bought the HD Pass just to see good games from him, will not approve of this behavior.

The people who bought the HD Pass knew the format of the tournament and knew that it allowed for inconsequential games. Without the incentive of winning a tournament, progamers should not try to win. No one is good enough to waste their best effort on inconsequential games, especially with how many major tournaments there are nowadays. Whatever the best strategy Naniwa had in mind for the game, he should not use it. What irrational people want and expect is for the players to put on a false show of a competition, where they both seem to be trying enough for viewers to successfully suspend their disbelief. Such people don't constitute a significant enough part of the community to justify this huge reaction.


Tyler said it best right here. I think that many people just don't have any empathy for how hard it is to be a pro gamer.


Really? How "hard" it is to be a pro gamer? You've got hundreds of thousands of nerds who would give anything to be in your shoes. You're playing a video game for money. Go talk to all of the unemployed recent college graduates about how hard your lives are. Go whine about all of the expectations placed on you by the community to the guy who just lost his office job and doesn't know how he's going to pay the mortgage next month.

Honestly, talk about people acting fucking entitled.

NOTE: wasn't meant to be completely directed AT YOU, setmeal... just at the general idea.


Even if I was good enough be in the Blizzard Cup/GSL, I would have a hard time accepting. I have a life and a girlfriend here are home. A brother who is buying a house and need my help with the closing and a sister who is starting a buisness. How am I going to help and support them in Korea. I couldn't move 16 hours away, across several time zones, with no one to talk to. People act like moving to Korea to play SC 2 would be the dream life. I have lived with 10 people in a reasonable sized apartment and it is far from ideal.

The pros have to really care about what they are doing and be invested. Being that invested in one thing means that when you fail, you are crushed. All the things you missed, all time you put in, now seem meaningless. And now you are expected to be friendly with fans and play in a meaningless match on camera. But all you really want to do is hide and deal with losing on your terms. And if you mess up at all or lash out at some dumb fan who comes up to you right after a loss, there is a 62 page thread on what a jerk you are.

So yeah, being a pro-gamer sounds a bit rough.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
whatwhatanut
Profile Joined December 2010
United States195 Posts
December 13 2011 19:53 GMT
#938
On December 14 2011 04:47 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 04:39 ZAiNs wrote:

Why would you want to see a bullshit PvZ where neither player is trying their hardest?


This is the difference between Naniwa an NesTea: NesTea would try to win anyway. Nani is just a child with no fighting spirit.


Yes the fighting spirit is the issue.....

Guys come on can we stop now?
Caspas
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany157 Posts
December 13 2011 19:53 GMT
#939
On December 14 2011 04:50 GrungyMunchy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 04:41 Gabriel Verlaine wrote:
On December 14 2011 04:34 Russano wrote:
On December 14 2011 04:32 The_LiNk wrote:
On December 14 2011 04:26 Sea_Food wrote:
On December 14 2011 04:19 The_LiNk wrote:
On December 14 2011 04:09 Sea_Food wrote:
You could edit this at the end of OP

TL;DR

Some Koreans do not understand that there are people in the world with different cultures. That happens when a nation does not have enough immigrants. People there will not learn to respect other cultures within their own borders.


Understanding cultures go both ways. You expect Koreans to understand Naniwa's "Western" culture of winning but you do not understand the Korean culture of respect. So ironic.

Last time I checked, "fighting to the bitter end" thing is very prevalent in Western cultures. 300 and Spartans and all.


Naniwa was in pissed off, so there is a reason why he dosnt act respectfully.


And FYI. 300 spartans was not a documentary. 300 spartans never did kill 10 000 persians. If you havent stayed awake during history lessons, western nations give up before they have only 300 soldiers left.


I don't think you understood my reference to 300 and the Spartans. I'm saying how Western culture seems to have some sort of value in fighting to the end because it's the honourable thing to do and how the lore of the Battle of Thermopylae is one of the most celebrated examples of this.

Also I don't see how Naniwa being pissed off is an excuse to not act respectfully. Do Western parents really buy the candy for their child just because the child is having a temper tantrum?


Yeah they do buy them the candy kinda often, and it really blows. But Naniwa sees the world differently, and probably didn't even conceive that it might be disrespectful. Im' sure he's totally shocked at how much hate he's getting for a fucking probe rush.


Reading the interview I cannot see any sign of Naniwa being shocked, he still thinks he did nothing wrong, even if he denied the PAYING STARCRAFT2-FANS a game of NesTea.

You think someone who's gonna play against Nestea is thinking about giving good games for the paying Nestea fans? No, they're thinking about winning the game regardless of how they do it. Naniwa, being the guy obsessed with winning that we all know, didn't care about a match that wouldn't decide anything, and acted accordingly. Blizzard Cup isn't a set of showmatches, they're not playing for your entertainment. They're playing to win. Money. A lot of it.


It's not about NesTea Fans, read more careful!
Switchy
Profile Joined June 2011
343 Posts
December 13 2011 19:54 GMT
#940
How many people here would actually be in the mental state to try to play a good game (thats meaningless) after being knocked out 30min earlier? Its 30 minutes after being knocked out of a tournament you had really high hopes for. 30 minutes is REALLY SHORT. damn hypocrites
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