EPTAn article on Naniwa from Thisisgame - Page 19
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Kevan
Sweden2303 Posts
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Kewlots
Australia534 Posts
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Kewlots
Australia534 Posts
On December 14 2011 00:31 Kevan wrote: Naniwa is, as far as I know, allowed to use whatever strategy he wants in a game. Pointless games in a bad tournament format included. I loved the format this tournament has been the best sc2 in ages | ||
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Vul
United States685 Posts
If you're equating progaming to a profession then there are 3 things at stake: His duty to the competition: His job, is to play in it. That's it. If his role is to preserve the integrity of the competition, then he did so. Absolutely none of the tournament compettion was affected by this. If his role is to entertain, then it becomes a matter of subjective opinion. I, and many others, were entertained. Many others were not, but that's what happens when you have to judge based on entertainment, not everyone is pleased. His duty to team/sponsors: Whether his team or his sponsors didn't like his actions is up to them. It's only their business how they handle this incident with Naniwa. It's absolutely none of our business what they decide to do, if they think this is great publicity, then fine. If they feel the need to fine him or something, also fine. But we aren't, and shouldn't be involved. His duty to GOMtv: As long as there aren't rules in place to prevent this, then there is absolutely nothing wrong, and he should not be penalized for it. However if GOM decided to do so, thats also up to them, no matter how much I don't agree with it. You can't retroactively punish people for rules not in place. and I damn well compare them. When, the winner of a match is unimportant and only the game itself for "entertainment" matters. Then a probe rush is just as viable as anything else, as it was just a joke strat done for the novelty and lulz. Which goes back to the objectivity of "entertainment". and the ladder experience was just an example. If naniwa is playing solely for money, why in the world, is he expected to play when money isn't involved. If I'm playing for fun, why in the world, am I expected to play if it's not fun? Money isn't involved? Maybe not for Naniwa. These games aren't streamed and produced out of thin air dude, money is definitely involved. That's one of the main reasons it's immature imo. | ||
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Nakama
Germany584 Posts
There is just no argument that is able to defend to actions Nani made. His actions may be understandable from a personal perspective but it doesn´t make them right. Me and many other Fans were waiting desperatly for this game to happen and he just showed us he either doesn´t care at all about his fans, gomtv, his team, sponors etc ( u know the ppl that in the end pay him) or he is plain out dump ( which i don´t believe). Why not show us some funny strat ? Why not just play the best u can even if its not ur "A"game (after loosing 3 matches in row and beeing already out its obvious u wont be able play it ) to beat nestea ? WHY not just TRY. Sure there are some ppl out there who have no problem with him throwing this game away and thats ok but would these ppl feel offended if he played a funny strat or a longer game ? obviously not ! And to all the ppl saying he is a professional gamer and not an entertainer. That´s only true to some extend but in the end any professional sportsman is an entertainer. They get payed cause ppl want to see ( get entertained) by watching them doing sports the BEST they can, that´s what professional sport is all about and the only way these players can make a living out of it and still dont "work" like normal ppl do, thus getting sooo good. The only difference between sport and "real" entertainment is that one creates entertainment through Competition while the other one approches it more directly ( comedy, drama, curiosity etc). | ||
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SoylentCreep
Korea (South)176 Posts
On December 14 2011 00:31 Kevan wrote: Naniwa is, as far as I know, allowed to use whatever strategy he wants in a game. Pointless games in a bad tournament format included. From wikipedia: "Strategy, a word of military origin, refers to a plan of action designed to achieve a particular goal." It's just so sad that his goal was to lose that game as fast as possible. | ||
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Gowerly
United Kingdom916 Posts
You must build at least 1 zealot/marine/zergling before typing GG? It's just a waste of time. You can't make someone excited about a game. Sure, you can go through the mechanics in your mind, but if you don't care whether you're going to win, you're not going to play well. | ||
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Russano
United States425 Posts
This "incident" only matters in the scope of E-sports because people are throwing a bitch fit over a nonincident. It's like when Republicans went ape shit over Michelle Obama over telling kids that they should eat healthy, which is *gasp* what is really one of her jobs. It's not Naniwas job to do things for the sake of a vague notion of "E-sports". If you don't want to be a fan of him because of this, go right ahead, that's not what he is playing for. | ||
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Olsson
Sweden931 Posts
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ReaperX
Hong Kong1758 Posts
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Weemoed
Netherlands741 Posts
On December 14 2011 00:35 SoylentCreep wrote: From wikipedia: "Strategy, a word of military origin, refers to a plan of action designed to achieve a particular goal." It's just so sad that his goal was to lose that game as fast as possible. In RTS games, not real life, a strategy just means a 'gameplan'. Some plans can be good, some can be bad. Naniwa's goal was go get away from the studio to give his perfomance thought, to vent his anger and to get a hold of himself. Mission accomplished as I would say. | ||
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ReaperX
Hong Kong1758 Posts
On December 14 2011 00:35 SoylentCreep wrote: From wikipedia: "Strategy, a word of military origin, refers to a plan of action designed to achieve a particular goal." It's just so sad that his goal was to lose that game as fast as possible. Whats the point of the main goal is not completed? He didn't qualify for the next round. Side missions don't really matter when you fail the main mission ^^ | ||
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Russano
United States425 Posts
On December 14 2011 00:34 Vul wrote: Money isn't involved? Maybe not for Naniwa. These games aren't streamed and produced out of thin air dude, money is definitely involved. That's one of the main reasons it's immature imo. It isn't his job to skew his gameplay to be more entertaining. His job is solely to compete within the set rules. He did that. Would it of been nice if he did? Yes. I'm saying what he did wasn't good, but it certainly wasn't bad, and you can't really condemn someone for the missed opportunities in life. | ||
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Xalorian
Canada433 Posts
On December 13 2011 23:26 Liquid`Tyler wrote: The people who bought the HD Pass knew the format of the tournament and knew that it allowed for inconsequential games. Without the incentive of winning a tournament, progamers should not try to win. No one is good enough to waste their best effort on inconsequential games, especially with how many major tournaments there are nowadays. Whatever the best strategy Naniwa had in mind for the game, he should not use it. What irrational people want and expect is for the players to put on a false show of a competition, where they both seem to be trying enough for viewers to successfully suspend their disbelief. Such people don't constitute a significant enough part of the community to justify this huge reaction. It's a Korean tournament, on Korean soil. They don't want any of this behaviour, Naniwa knew that. And by going to this tournamenet, he knew that "inconsequential" games could happen, the same way that viewer knew that. Tell me Tyler, i'm asking because you are a progamer and I am not... are you playing just for money? Because I fail to see how it's a "inconsequential" game. It was a game for a higher ranking in the tournament, more money or not, it's still a consequence. It sill matter for us, who follow the scene. Nestea would have played seriously, i'm sure of it, just to show to viewers that he can beat Naniwa. Why can't he do the same? I don't want him to be banned, but seriously, this should not be allowed. And if they want to ban him, they have the right to. If he is a progamer just to win money, and not to show that he can be the best, then it's sad, really. And showing that he can be the best also mean playing seriously when it means having an higher ranking in tournaments, more money or not. And Quantic hyped the match on twitter... so it does mean that it was not a "inconsequential" match for is team, either. | ||
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Quagmire
Ireland50 Posts
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Nothingtosay
United States875 Posts
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poorcloud
Singapore2748 Posts
I'm not going to talk about what is wrong or what is right. Naniwa did things that understandably pissed off everyone for very logical reasons. To Nestea, who probably still wanted to put on a match for the fans even though he was pissed off at losing in the tourney. Can you imagine how he feels after he spent so much effort to calm himself down and tell himself to play a good final game and then just see his opponent do such a thing? Its understandable for him to be pissed. To the koreans and possibly some members of the audience, they all have never seen such behavior before and its part of their gaming culture. Its like you went to some country and did one of the worst things that get frowned upon. Its inconsiderate to them as they do not have a tendency to forfeit relatively useless matches. If you go to a country, you fucking follow their ideals unless you want to be disrespected and insulted. Pro-gaming is not just about playing games. Its about entertaining the crowd and fans. Pro-gamers have a duty to entertain the fans because without fans, there will be no money/sponsors, and thus no tournaments and no pro-gamers. Yes, they do not have a responsibility to use all the time, but if you wanna not put on a show for the fans, your just burning bridges with the fans. FANS ARE THE FOUNDATION OF EVERY SPORT AND THEY ARE THE ONES WHO PROVIDE THE IMPETUS FOR GROWTH. To all those who are bringing up examples of worst cases in other smaller tourneys and complaining about the double standards. The fuck you thinking? Of course there is going to be more attention to this. THIS IS THE BIGGEST SC2 TOURNEY. Its televised and most amounts of people are going to pay attention to it, and get pissed off if they see such a farce match. There is no point in talking about principle. Its all about the popularity of the event. Naniwa fucked up in the biggest event, he will get the biggest flak. No doubt about it. And finally i just like to say something to or about Naniwa. I like him a lot and i personally don't mind at all about what he done. But its a fact that he is in korea and if he wants to win a fucking GSL, he has to not burn bridges and be more friendly to everyone even if he dosen't feel like. Do you think if korean progamers who think badly of him will practise properly with him? Do you think leaving a bad impression on the tournament organisers will be beneficial in the future if he has to postpone matches to go for overseas tournaments? Do you think coaches or teams will enjoy having him in their team due to the negative PR? Some may say that Naniwa has his right to do what he likes. I guess that is a principle thing. But the world revolves round no single person. If you completely ignore your surroundings and give in to your emotions, you will induce insults and hate. Unless you enjoy that, you got to learn how to compromise on some things. I still like Naniwa and i think none of this is his fault. He just has a different mindset. What he needs is a personal coach/team manager who can advise him on such matters. I read that he said he should have just 4 gated after he knew about all the shitstorm. No shit. Get a team manager/coach who can tell him to do that before he does something stupid again. Get someone who knows what fans/players/organisers expect and tell naniwa how to behave or he is going to become one of the most disliked players in the community. And lastly, i like to say that while its good to be angry with yourself for losing. Its even more admirable to put down your emotions and frustrations and do the best out of the situation you already have. In Naniwas case, that would be to outplay Nestea and show that he is at least not the worst player in the group. Some might say that is inconsequential. I assure you that growing to have the mental fortitude to do such a difficult thing can only bode well in one's career (no matter what the fuck that career/job is). | ||
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IMPrime
United States715 Posts
It's only hurting it as much as the fans are getting so worked up about something that Naniwa did nothing wrong legally. Which means if people chill out, nothing bad will happen. | ||
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Kewlots
Australia534 Posts
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RatInPink
Sweden41 Posts
so in the final part we let GomTV do as they please and ban a player for the reason that they did not like how he played, even thou it was a crappy thing Nani did thats not realy ok imo. If a player has the skill to get into the GLS does not that mean that he can play there and do as he pleases when he thinks the game are over? Fundation in all sport might be fans but fans makes bad judges. And if fans out there are going to help them ban players just for making 1 stupid mistake its realy realy sadening. | ||
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