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On December 13 2011 23:39 mcmartini wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:38 SoylentCreep wrote:On December 13 2011 23:35 Neotik wrote:On December 13 2011 23:26 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 13 2011 23:12 zul wrote:
Naniwa responds on twitter: "apparently people got upset when i probe rushed nestea, the game was pointless and it couldnt change anything in the tournament."
people who bought the HD Pass just to see good games from him, will not approve of this behavior. The people who bought the HD Pass knew the format of the tournament and knew that it allowed for inconsequential games. Without the incentive of winning a tournament, progamers should not try to win. No one is good enough to waste their best effort on inconsequential games, especially with how many major tournaments there are nowadays. Whatever the best strategy Naniwa had in mind for the game, he should not use it. What irrational people want and expect is for the players to put on a false show of a competition, where they both seem to be trying enough for viewers to successfully suspend their disbelief. Such people don't constitute a significant enough part of the community to justify this huge reaction. this. I don't think people are focusing enough on the circumstances that allowed this to happen: a faulty and confusing tournament format. Sure Naniwa is known to BM, but not placing any of the blame on the tourney organizers is a bit delusional. Naniwa knew the format beforehand...everybody knew. He could have declined. But just giving up as soon as there's no way to win at a faultily organized tournament is just unprofessional. How do you know he didn't decline and was forced to play anyway? For the record, Code S Up and Down always had inconsequential games not being played, I see no reason why it shouldn't have been the same for this tournament.
Yeah right. You qualified for the probably most prestigous( or at least hardest to get in ) tournament of the year and you decline because you don't like the format. I'm pretty sure that's it--- you're a genius.
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IMO he should lose his GSL code S seed. They are paying him to play, not to give up.
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Coca lost his code S spot for throwing a non consequential game in a minor tournament, naniwa gets invited to a tournament with a huge prize pool and some of you claim everyone is a douche for suggesting it is no big deal.
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On December 13 2011 23:36 Zandar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:33 PikaXchU wrote:
I'm not hating on him, but for E-sports this is definitely not good it's the opposite, a bit drama like this is great for E-sports. twitter, TL and reddit explode.
Yup, there's no such thing as bad publicity. The only problem is the implications of such events, which could bring down all the efforts of the people who are trying to promote SCII as an E-sport.
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To all the people throwing sport analogies around:
Football (soccer) teams routinely throw out a reserve/B team whenever there's a game they don't care about.
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On December 13 2011 23:41 seodoth wrote:
What the hell is this kind of sensationalism?? In other words, the koreans get screwed over manners, and cannot imagine the reasoning of Naniwa of not wanting to play a meaning less game. Which it was, because both nestea and naniwa were already 0-3 and couldnt make it past their groups.
I hope no one in the western communities is even upset about this and I hope the OP makes an edit of his own opinion or see to it that he mentions this post is only a translation of korean honorable emotions.
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On December 13 2011 23:38 ruffletuffle wrote:
We can't use cultural relativism to lambast Naniwa over his actions when he technically did nothing wrong by GSL tournament rules. Understandably people have subjective opinions over a subjective issue, and they are entitled to have them, but that's all they are, opinions. He doesn't deserve to be punished because he didn't follow the arbitrary, unwritten expectations of the "community" or the Korean scene or whatever other entity.
I would say, objectively, that Naniwa was afraid of losing, and threw the last game. Otherwise he would've played that game at his best. Even though no upsets were possible in this instance, not giving up is what makes upsets happen. Which is the most entertaining.
There should be rules against this, otherwise people can do this every Code A/S qualification.
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On December 13 2011 23:40 Tristran wrote:
I'm actually disappointed at the people (and even player/s) who think this isn't a big deal.
I noted Tylers response that showing their top play in unimportant games is not worth it, yes I agree. What I will also remind everyone of is that eSports as a whole is funded largely by Sponsors. Without sponsors none of this would happen. Do any of you honestly think that any sponsor would want their name all over the atrocious behavior and complete lack of game that was played by Naniwa?
If you want prize money. If you want big viewer numbers. If you want to be famous. Then you need to act professional. I'm sorry but there is absolutely no place for Naniwa's behavior in tournaments such as the GSL.
sponsors love publicity
shit like this brings publicity
sponsor actually get to see their investment pay off
naniwa remains bad guy, life goes on
everybody happy...
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On December 13 2011 23:38 ruffletuffle wrote:
We can't use cultural relativism to lambast Naniwa over his actions when he technically did nothing wrong by GSL tournament rules. Understandably people have subjective opinions over a subjective issue, and they are entitled to have them, but that's all they are, opinions. He doesn't deserve to be punished because he didn't follow the arbitrary, unwritten expectations of the "community" or the Korean scene or whatever other entity.
You have no idea how scary the Korean internet communities can be when they hate on the player.Naniwa probably lose all the respect from the Korean communities.
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i just cant belive how much hate is here, i mean WTF?!
i cant belive what am i reading here...so much hate and judging from people hiding behind their monitors, so sad.
this comunity is full of crap, get a life u freaks
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well for my future predictions, he's either going to apologize or i just dont see him gettin invited in the future =/
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On December 13 2011 23:37 Insomni7 wrote:
People are unwilling to accept that progamers play for money, not for popularity. Nani can make his own choices and I am fine with what he did.
Well thats his choice but he wont have success in Korea ( or any real big success ) with this kind of attitude. Proffesional Sprts/E-Sports only work because people are billig to support it since it doesn't actually produces anything of substance. You don't insult those people by acting like this.
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On December 13 2011 23:40 Tristran wrote:
I'm actually disappointed at the people (and even player/s) who think this isn't a big deal.
I noted Tylers response that showing their top play in unimportant games is not worth it, yes I agree. What I will also remind everyone of is that eSports as a whole is funded largely by Sponsors. Without sponsors none of this would happen. Do any of you honestly think that any sponsor would want their name all over the atrocious behavior and complete lack of game that was played by Naniwa?
If you want prize money. If you want big viewer numbers. If you want to be famous. Then you need to act professional. I'm sorry but there is absolutely no place for Naniwa's behavior in tournaments such as the GSL.
Edit: I will also add that customers will not want to pay if they suspect the games will be crap, or will have players they don't care about in. I wont get excited to see Naniwa in any list anymore. I wont be the only one. If Nestea started doing stupid crap like that do you think his name would bring any value to a player list? Hell no.
Really? Is Rebecka Black proffesional? Your just making stuff up to suit you better. Some of the most famous people are definitly NOT proffesional.
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On December 13 2011 23:42 CryingPoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:41 seodoth wrote:
What the hell is this kind of sensationalism?? In other words, the koreans get screwed over manners, and cannot imagine the reasoning of Naniwa of not wanting to play a meaning less game. Which it was, because both nestea and naniwa were already 0-3 and couldnt make it past their groups.
I hope no one in the western communities is even upset about this and I hope the OP makes an edit of his own opinion or see to it that he mentions this post is only a translation of korean honorable emotions. oh my god shut the fuck up. READ THE FUCKING DAMN THING I FUCKING TRANSLATED. Frankly I don't give a fuck. fucking hell. I am out of here.
Thanks for the translations, I hope you'll be able to do the interviews, sorry that some people are spitting on you because their reading/comprehension skills are lacking.
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Russian Federation1849 Posts
Even some of korean comments on this article are saying that the article is written too agressive.
What he did was childish but look now how much attention it made. E-sports only won.
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On December 13 2011 23:42 snailz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:40 Tristran wrote:
I'm actually disappointed at the people (and even player/s) who think this isn't a big deal.
I noted Tylers response that showing their top play in unimportant games is not worth it, yes I agree. What I will also remind everyone of is that eSports as a whole is funded largely by Sponsors. Without sponsors none of this would happen. Do any of you honestly think that any sponsor would want their name all over the atrocious behavior and complete lack of game that was played by Naniwa?
If you want prize money. If you want big viewer numbers. If you want to be famous. Then you need to act professional. I'm sorry but there is absolutely no place for Naniwa's behavior in tournaments such as the GSL. sponsors love publicity shit like this brings publicity sponsor actually get to see their investment pay off naniwa remains bad guy, life goes on everybody happy...
You re delusional if you think sponsors love that kind of publicity.
Its like saying Tiger Woods sex scandal was good for his sponsors.
On December 13 2011 23:42 Gowerly wrote:
To all the people throwing sport analogies around:
Football (soccer) teams routinely throw out a reserve/B team whenever there's a game they don't care about.
sending out a B team is like going for a fun strategy that still has a chance to win you the game.
You re out of your mind if you think probe rushing and playing with a B team is the same thing.
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On December 13 2011 23:42 goswser wrote:
Coca lost his code S spot for throwing a non consequential game in a minor tournament, naniwa gets invited to a tournament with a huge prize pool and some of you claim everyone is a douche for suggesting it is no big deal.
Losing that game had the consequence of byun getting a chance of code A spot after being dropped out, naniwa's game actually had 0 consequence if he lost also he didnt get invited he earned his spot.
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On December 13 2011 23:40 Eury wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:34 Sabersharp wrote:On December 13 2011 23:24 mind_control wrote:
nice article ever. I have to leave a comment here. well my opinion about his action on game # 9, when he started to game, and when he tried to put gg. it wasn't so arrogant or disrespectful all staffs/ gom tv people/his fans, or offend feeling bad against nestea at all. He was already 0-3 regardless his mood. his condition. regardless his purpose. Game comes always with luck/conditions. etc. Even though he put all his efforts all his life, there must be variable and not going with him unfortunately. We had thousands of fans for him before he starts that show 18:10. If he would win that games, the result could change all everything. but now he lost, we change back against him. I don't think people change. that's true. But because of that, I don't hate people. I understand every culture. and background. I understand this situation. I mean, I don't think this situation it's not his bad manner or disrespectful us. Did you think ever his schedule? He had run many games since Sep. even moved new countries, met many games. countries to countries. Do you think, he had enough journey whilst he having pause in Sweden? Didn't you read his twitter? Well, as you noticed already people(gamers) considered like a item to company(like col,qxg) they contact all the time. and it must be also stressed, maybe pro gamers don't have free time. and don't have free time enjoy themselves. After he spent 10 days after deamhack, he had to attend direct blizz cup, even changing such dramatic changing company. Didn't you think, how much he was under stress? Let's take a look one more time. Korea is mostly stress country. stress giving. more with manner-important taking. I don't think, there is pressure between naniwa-nestea. It must just certain temporary things in MLG in orlando. I cant believe people saying that issue even still now. Let's take a look in the mirror. Even we are such perfect. that we can be judged. If we see last 200-300 yrs ago genious. people didn't take as good, or genious at all. They had hard life. If I see naniwa, I see same thing. I'm not a fan or naniwa, I'm not fan of nestea either, I see all the time in the middle. I'm just saying what I see. and experienced. just people cant be perfect. Naniwa in the studio action. he just abstain. there wasn't anything disrespectful. Didnt you see his tears/eyes via youtube. when he says to you guys to fan. I could see his real heart. and how much he's thanksful to his team/fans And how much he think so important and want to communicate with you guys.
Don't blame to him. He's also just a person. He's not a beast. He seems just cold but he just doesn't show. but you guys already show and edit lots of his data right ? I'm also understand korean newspaper against to him but. We didn't see so let's not judge. I just think, this happening just can regards as abstrain. like yes, football kick his ball into his goal. He must just tired, after long trip to meet new people(where are all koreans there) . Let's try to understand him as a person. Not just score/ or money or appearance. He's now in new country, new people in his young age.
I expect another succeed in his life again. I tried to mention his schedule to say his background. Hope you guys understand a little bit too. IF you are from South Korea,you should know that Korean take gaming very seriously and dun tolerate this type of thing even when you are throwing a game that doesn't matter against Nestea. Koreans emphasize A LOT on professionalism and respect in sc2 and also in their culture.Foreigners may take this and say"meh it was a pointless game so he throwed it away"but Koreans look at differently and say you cant have that. Oh please. Double standards and bandwagon mentality is what infest Korea. Don't give me this "honor" crap. Koreans have thrown a ton of games during Starcraft's history without netizens and weeboos making a noise. Edit: Btw not the whole Korean community is lambasting Naniwa over this either.
Source ? if you can't provide source or any relevant materials to back your statement , you are merely are just making up stuff to support your argument.
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EPT
