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Sports players also have to worry about getting injured. A very common reason to see their B-teamers..
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Something emotional happened. This may sound very ridiculous but Naniwa does not have qualifications to be a pro gamer.
I corrected that 1st sentence for you.
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On December 13 2011 23:42 SoylentCreep wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:39 mcmartini wrote:On December 13 2011 23:38 SoylentCreep wrote:On December 13 2011 23:35 Neotik wrote:On December 13 2011 23:26 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 13 2011 23:12 zul wrote:
Naniwa responds on twitter: "apparently people got upset when i probe rushed nestea, the game was pointless and it couldnt change anything in the tournament."
people who bought the HD Pass just to see good games from him, will not approve of this behavior. The people who bought the HD Pass knew the format of the tournament and knew that it allowed for inconsequential games. Without the incentive of winning a tournament, progamers should not try to win. No one is good enough to waste their best effort on inconsequential games, especially with how many major tournaments there are nowadays. Whatever the best strategy Naniwa had in mind for the game, he should not use it. What irrational people want and expect is for the players to put on a false show of a competition, where they both seem to be trying enough for viewers to successfully suspend their disbelief. Such people don't constitute a significant enough part of the community to justify this huge reaction. this. I don't think people are focusing enough on the circumstances that allowed this to happen: a faulty and confusing tournament format. Sure Naniwa is known to BM, but not placing any of the blame on the tourney organizers is a bit delusional. Naniwa knew the format beforehand...everybody knew. He could have declined. But just giving up as soon as there's no way to win at a faultily organized tournament is just unprofessional. How do you know he didn't decline and was forced to play anyway? For the record, Code S Up and Down always had inconsequential games not being played, I see no reason why it shouldn't have been the same for this tournament. Yeah right. You qualified for the probably most prestigous( or at least hardest to get in ) tournament of the year and you decline because you don't like the format. I'm pretty sure that's it--- you're a genius.
I quite clearly meant decline to play the game vs Nestea, as my next sentence shows. The sarcasm and rudeness is noted.
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On December 13 2011 23:26 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:12 zul wrote:
Naniwa responds on twitter: "apparently people got upset when i probe rushed nestea, the game was pointless and it couldnt change anything in the tournament."
people who bought the HD Pass just to see good games from him, will not approve of this behavior. The people who bought the HD Pass knew the format of the tournament and knew that it allowed for inconsequential games. Without the incentive of winning a tournament, progamers should not try to win. No one is good enough to waste their best effort on inconsequential games, especially with how many major tournaments there are nowadays. Whatever the best strategy Naniwa had in mind for the game, he should not use it. What irrational people want and expect is for the players to put on a false show of a competition, where they both seem to be trying enough for viewers to successfully suspend their disbelief. Such people don't constitute a significant enough part of the community to justify this huge reaction.
Ok, I respect your personal opinion. But look, A progamer is just that, a Professional Gamer. Life as a gamer is difficult, but so are the life of countless other working individuals. I can understand the reason to forfeit a game if it conflicts with your interest or occupies a large portion of your schedule. But when you are invited(!) to a tournament with a significant prize money and exposure AND it would take you a few dozen minutes to compete, you do it. Naniwa was already there! He's not high maintenance enough to seriously think an extra game will cause him serious harm in anyway. Surely it's a nice gesture to play a game he knows is scheduled well in advance. (The exposure works both ways, yes, but it's still beneficial to the player to an large degree in this case in my personal opinion.)
Pro athletes play charity games and show matches all the time. Do they do it for the prize money? No. They do it for the sponsorship and image. You can't say there's no incentive either. Did he consult his sponsors before this fiasco? Because there is incentive to win for Quantic, which translates to an incentive to win for Naniwa.
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On December 13 2011 23:42 snailz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:40 Tristran wrote:
I'm actually disappointed at the people (and even player/s) who think this isn't a big deal.
I noted Tylers response that showing their top play in unimportant games is not worth it, yes I agree. What I will also remind everyone of is that eSports as a whole is funded largely by Sponsors. Without sponsors none of this would happen. Do any of you honestly think that any sponsor would want their name all over the atrocious behavior and complete lack of game that was played by Naniwa?
If you want prize money. If you want big viewer numbers. If you want to be famous. Then you need to act professional. I'm sorry but there is absolutely no place for Naniwa's behavior in tournaments such as the GSL. sponsors love publicity shit like this brings publicity sponsor actually get to see their investment pay off naniwa remains bad guy, life goes on everybody happy...
No, everybody is not happy. Smart investors understand this sort of stupid drama and unprofessionalism undermines the integrity of the game and threatens its long term sustainability. Do you really think sponsors are as so stupid and short-sighted as to think a short-term spike like this is always a positive thing?
Anyway, the whole "No such thing as bad publicity" line is a lie. Ask any publicist and they'll tell you what the difference is, and how important it is to avoid bad publicity. Think for yourselves, goddammit.
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No, you don't understand! Playing Protoss warps the mind! Turns men into BEASTS!
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This is one of the worst Starcraft 2 related articles written to date.
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On December 13 2011 23:45 dafunk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:42 Gowerly wrote:
To all the people throwing sport analogies around:
Football (soccer) teams routinely throw out a reserve/B team whenever there's a game they don't care about. sending out a B team is like going for a fun strategy that still has a chance to win you the game. You re out of your mind if you think probe rushing and playing with a B team is the same thing.
I disagree with this. I'm pretty confident that if they had the choice to not play for 90 minutes they would take that instead. SC2 has the benefit of the games can be as long as you like, so why not make them as short as possible? Personally, I preferred him getting it out of the way so that I could watch the later rounds/go to the bathroom.
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I think naniwa probe rushing gives for more excitement than a normal game in that "OH SHIT" kind of way.
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On December 13 2011 23:46 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:40 Eury wrote:On December 13 2011 23:34 Sabersharp wrote:On December 13 2011 23:24 mind_control wrote:
nice article ever. I have to leave a comment here. well my opinion about his action on game # 9, when he started to game, and when he tried to put gg. it wasn't so arrogant or disrespectful all staffs/ gom tv people/his fans, or offend feeling bad against nestea at all. He was already 0-3 regardless his mood. his condition. regardless his purpose. Game comes always with luck/conditions. etc. Even though he put all his efforts all his life, there must be variable and not going with him unfortunately. We had thousands of fans for him before he starts that show 18:10. If he would win that games, the result could change all everything. but now he lost, we change back against him. I don't think people change. that's true. But because of that, I don't hate people. I understand every culture. and background. I understand this situation. I mean, I don't think this situation it's not his bad manner or disrespectful us. Did you think ever his schedule? He had run many games since Sep. even moved new countries, met many games. countries to countries. Do you think, he had enough journey whilst he having pause in Sweden? Didn't you read his twitter? Well, as you noticed already people(gamers) considered like a item to company(like col,qxg) they contact all the time. and it must be also stressed, maybe pro gamers don't have free time. and don't have free time enjoy themselves. After he spent 10 days after deamhack, he had to attend direct blizz cup, even changing such dramatic changing company. Didn't you think, how much he was under stress? Let's take a look one more time. Korea is mostly stress country. stress giving. more with manner-important taking. I don't think, there is pressure between naniwa-nestea. It must just certain temporary things in MLG in orlando. I cant believe people saying that issue even still now. Let's take a look in the mirror. Even we are such perfect. that we can be judged. If we see last 200-300 yrs ago genious. people didn't take as good, or genious at all. They had hard life. If I see naniwa, I see same thing. I'm not a fan or naniwa, I'm not fan of nestea either, I see all the time in the middle. I'm just saying what I see. and experienced. just people cant be perfect. Naniwa in the studio action. he just abstain. there wasn't anything disrespectful. Didnt you see his tears/eyes via youtube. when he says to you guys to fan. I could see his real heart. and how much he's thanksful to his team/fans And how much he think so important and want to communicate with you guys.
Don't blame to him. He's also just a person. He's not a beast. He seems just cold but he just doesn't show. but you guys already show and edit lots of his data right ? I'm also understand korean newspaper against to him but. We didn't see so let's not judge. I just think, this happening just can regards as abstrain. like yes, football kick his ball into his goal. He must just tired, after long trip to meet new people(where are all koreans there) . Let's try to understand him as a person. Not just score/ or money or appearance. He's now in new country, new people in his young age.
I expect another succeed in his life again. I tried to mention his schedule to say his background. Hope you guys understand a little bit too. IF you are from South Korea,you should know that Korean take gaming very seriously and dun tolerate this type of thing even when you are throwing a game that doesn't matter against Nestea. Koreans emphasize A LOT on professionalism and respect in sc2 and also in their culture.Foreigners may take this and say"meh it was a pointless game so he throwed it away"but Koreans look at differently and say you cant have that. Oh please. Double standards and bandwagon mentality is what infest Korea. Don't give me this "honor" crap. Koreans have thrown a ton of games during Starcraft's history without netizens and weeboos making a noise. Edit: Btw not the whole Korean community is lambasting Naniwa over this either. Source ? if you can't provide source or any relevant materials to back your statement , you are merely are just making up stuff to support your argument.
Guess I belong in this thread then, eh?
e: If you knew anything about Korea you would know how insane a lot of netizens are and their bandwagon mentality. And regarding Koreans throwing games before, you have had plenty of examples in this thread.
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On December 13 2011 23:45 dafunk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:42 snailz wrote:On December 13 2011 23:40 Tristran wrote:
I'm actually disappointed at the people (and even player/s) who think this isn't a big deal.
I noted Tylers response that showing their top play in unimportant games is not worth it, yes I agree. What I will also remind everyone of is that eSports as a whole is funded largely by Sponsors. Without sponsors none of this would happen. Do any of you honestly think that any sponsor would want their name all over the atrocious behavior and complete lack of game that was played by Naniwa?
If you want prize money. If you want big viewer numbers. If you want to be famous. Then you need to act professional. I'm sorry but there is absolutely no place for Naniwa's behavior in tournaments such as the GSL. sponsors love publicity shit like this brings publicity sponsor actually get to see their investment pay off naniwa remains bad guy, life goes on everybody happy... You re delusional if you think sponsors love that kind of publicity. Its like saying Tiger Woods sex scandal was good for his sponsors. Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:42 Gowerly wrote:
To all the people throwing sport analogies around:
Football (soccer) teams routinely throw out a reserve/B team whenever there's a game they don't care about. sending out a B team is like going for a fun strategy that still has a chance to win you the game. You re out of your mind if you think probe rushing and playing with a B team is the same thing.
Well say if Andorra have a euro quals game in 1 week and they have a friendly(a game with 0 consequence) with Brazil this week and Brazil really wants to win for whatever reason like nestea did, Andorra sending out their b has probably the same chance of winning as a probe rush. Its quite easy to draw fairly exact parallels that arn't made a big deal out of in sports
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On December 13 2011 23:46 mcmartini wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:42 SoylentCreep wrote:On December 13 2011 23:39 mcmartini wrote:On December 13 2011 23:38 SoylentCreep wrote:On December 13 2011 23:35 Neotik wrote:On December 13 2011 23:26 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 13 2011 23:12 zul wrote:
Naniwa responds on twitter: "apparently people got upset when i probe rushed nestea, the game was pointless and it couldnt change anything in the tournament."
people who bought the HD Pass just to see good games from him, will not approve of this behavior. The people who bought the HD Pass knew the format of the tournament and knew that it allowed for inconsequential games. Without the incentive of winning a tournament, progamers should not try to win. No one is good enough to waste their best effort on inconsequential games, especially with how many major tournaments there are nowadays. Whatever the best strategy Naniwa had in mind for the game, he should not use it. What irrational people want and expect is for the players to put on a false show of a competition, where they both seem to be trying enough for viewers to successfully suspend their disbelief. Such people don't constitute a significant enough part of the community to justify this huge reaction. this. I don't think people are focusing enough on the circumstances that allowed this to happen: a faulty and confusing tournament format. Sure Naniwa is known to BM, but not placing any of the blame on the tourney organizers is a bit delusional. Naniwa knew the format beforehand...everybody knew. He could have declined. But just giving up as soon as there's no way to win at a faultily organized tournament is just unprofessional. How do you know he didn't decline and was forced to play anyway? For the record, Code S Up and Down always had inconsequential games not being played, I see no reason why it shouldn't have been the same for this tournament. Yeah right. You qualified for the probably most prestigous( or at least hardest to get in ) tournament of the year and you decline because you don't like the format. I'm pretty sure that's it--- you're a genius. I quite clearly meant decline to play the game vs Nestea, as my next sentence shows. The sarcasm and rudeness is noted.
And I cleary meant to decline playing in the tournament. See? That's exactly what i meant when i said that his behavior is unprofessional. "No chance to win teh moneyz? Awww fuck it, i don't give a shit!"
Attitudes like that are bad for e-sports, and will not help e-sports getting accepted as a true profession.
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Well, this is a little bit blown out of proportion.
But still, it was really predictable. Why would Naniwa think it will be ok if he does something like that? He really needs to work on his social skills.
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On December 13 2011 23:44 Polox wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 13 2011 23:40 Tristran wrote:
I'm actually disappointed at the people (and even player/s) who think this isn't a big deal.
I noted Tylers response that showing their top play in unimportant games is not worth it, yes I agree. What I will also remind everyone of is that eSports as a whole is funded largely by Sponsors. Without sponsors none of this would happen. Do any of you honestly think that any sponsor would want their name all over the atrocious behavior and complete lack of game that was played by Naniwa?
If you want prize money. If you want big viewer numbers. If you want to be famous. Then you need to act professional. I'm sorry but there is absolutely no place for Naniwa's behavior in tournaments such as the GSL.
Edit: I will also add that customers will not want to pay if they suspect the games will be crap, or will have players they don't care about in. I wont get excited to see Naniwa in any list anymore. I wont be the only one. If Nestea started doing stupid crap like that do you think his name would bring any value to a player list? Hell no. Really? Is Rebecka Black proffesional? Your just making stuff up to suit you better. Some of the most famous people are definitly NOT proffesional.
A handful of people can get away with shit like this, partly because the world is fucking stupid enough to like Rebecca Black.
Yet its still retarded and I would rather my entertainment consist of GOOD games, not endless crap. The way to prevent more people thinking they can get away with this shit is to not allow the ones who try it in the first place to get away with it.
Some people have atrocious attitudes on how things should work.
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On December 13 2011 23:42 goswser wrote:
Coca lost his code S spot for throwing a non consequential game in a minor tournament, naniwa gets invited to a tournament with a huge prize pool and some of you claim everyone is a douche for suggesting it is no big deal.
What.
The tournament Coca participated in was for a Code A spot. If Coca would have won, his buddy would not have gotten the spot, if Coca would have thrown the game, his buddy would have most likely gotten the spot.
Non consequential in a minor tournament my ass.
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On December 13 2011 23:49 SoylentCreep wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:46 mcmartini wrote:On December 13 2011 23:42 SoylentCreep wrote:On December 13 2011 23:39 mcmartini wrote:On December 13 2011 23:38 SoylentCreep wrote:On December 13 2011 23:35 Neotik wrote:On December 13 2011 23:26 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 13 2011 23:12 zul wrote:
Naniwa responds on twitter: "apparently people got upset when i probe rushed nestea, the game was pointless and it couldnt change anything in the tournament."
people who bought the HD Pass just to see good games from him, will not approve of this behavior. The people who bought the HD Pass knew the format of the tournament and knew that it allowed for inconsequential games. Without the incentive of winning a tournament, progamers should not try to win. No one is good enough to waste their best effort on inconsequential games, especially with how many major tournaments there are nowadays. Whatever the best strategy Naniwa had in mind for the game, he should not use it. What irrational people want and expect is for the players to put on a false show of a competition, where they both seem to be trying enough for viewers to successfully suspend their disbelief. Such people don't constitute a significant enough part of the community to justify this huge reaction. this. I don't think people are focusing enough on the circumstances that allowed this to happen: a faulty and confusing tournament format. Sure Naniwa is known to BM, but not placing any of the blame on the tourney organizers is a bit delusional. Naniwa knew the format beforehand...everybody knew. He could have declined. But just giving up as soon as there's no way to win at a faultily organized tournament is just unprofessional. How do you know he didn't decline and was forced to play anyway? For the record, Code S Up and Down always had inconsequential games not being played, I see no reason why it shouldn't have been the same for this tournament. Yeah right. You qualified for the probably most prestigous( or at least hardest to get in ) tournament of the year and you decline because you don't like the format. I'm pretty sure that's it--- you're a genius. I quite clearly meant decline to play the game vs Nestea, as my next sentence shows. The sarcasm and rudeness is noted. And I cleary meant to decline playing in the tournament. See? That's exactly what i meant when i said that his behavior is unprofessional. "No chance to win teh moneyz? Awww fuck it, i don't give a shit!" Attitudes like that are bad for e-sports, and will not help e-sports getting accepted as a true profession.
I guess we both made mistakes in interpreting eachothers posts. Sorry.
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On December 13 2011 23:47 Gowerly wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:45 dafunk wrote:On December 13 2011 23:42 Gowerly wrote:
To all the people throwing sport analogies around:
Football (soccer) teams routinely throw out a reserve/B team whenever there's a game they don't care about. sending out a B team is like going for a fun strategy that still has a chance to win you the game. You re out of your mind if you think probe rushing and playing with a B team is the same thing. I disagree with this. I'm pretty confident that if they had the choice to not play for 90 minutes they would take that instead. SC2 has the benefit of the games can be as long as you like, so why not make them as short as possible?
No way, using your B-team is a valuable way to get them match experience/test fitness and to see how they perform in bigger leagues/tournaments. Very rarely would a team prefer to simply forfeit a match rather than use a secondary/tertiary squad, mostly only if the match would require long travel or sizeable travel costs.
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what really is ridiculous are people like coaches of other teams saying bad things about Naniwa.
how can it be professionalism?
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On December 13 2011 23:49 SoylentCreep wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:46 mcmartini wrote:On December 13 2011 23:42 SoylentCreep wrote:On December 13 2011 23:39 mcmartini wrote:On December 13 2011 23:38 SoylentCreep wrote:On December 13 2011 23:35 Neotik wrote:On December 13 2011 23:26 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 13 2011 23:12 zul wrote:
Naniwa responds on twitter: "apparently people got upset when i probe rushed nestea, the game was pointless and it couldnt change anything in the tournament."
people who bought the HD Pass just to see good games from him, will not approve of this behavior. The people who bought the HD Pass knew the format of the tournament and knew that it allowed for inconsequential games. Without the incentive of winning a tournament, progamers should not try to win. No one is good enough to waste their best effort on inconsequential games, especially with how many major tournaments there are nowadays. Whatever the best strategy Naniwa had in mind for the game, he should not use it. What irrational people want and expect is for the players to put on a false show of a competition, where they both seem to be trying enough for viewers to successfully suspend their disbelief. Such people don't constitute a significant enough part of the community to justify this huge reaction. this. I don't think people are focusing enough on the circumstances that allowed this to happen: a faulty and confusing tournament format. Sure Naniwa is known to BM, but not placing any of the blame on the tourney organizers is a bit delusional. Naniwa knew the format beforehand...everybody knew. He could have declined. But just giving up as soon as there's no way to win at a faultily organized tournament is just unprofessional. How do you know he didn't decline and was forced to play anyway? For the record, Code S Up and Down always had inconsequential games not being played, I see no reason why it shouldn't have been the same for this tournament. Yeah right. You qualified for the probably most prestigous( or at least hardest to get in ) tournament of the year and you decline because you don't like the format. I'm pretty sure that's it--- you're a genius. I quite clearly meant decline to play the game vs Nestea, as my next sentence shows. The sarcasm and rudeness is noted. And I cleary meant to decline playing in the tournament. See? That's exactly what i meant when i said that his behavior is unprofessional. "No chance to win teh moneyz? Awww fuck it, i don't give a shit!" Attitudes like that are bad for e-sports, and will not help e-sports getting accepted as a true profession.
Or maybe they don't understand the pro player.
Nani can do whatever the fuck he wants, its his spot in the tournament that was earned and his to throw away.
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EPT
