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On December 13 2011 23:33 PikaXchU wrote:
I'm not hating on him, but for E-sports this is definitely not good
it's the opposite, a bit drama like this is great for E-sports. twitter, TL and reddit explode.
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On December 13 2011 23:36 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:31 brachester wrote:On December 13 2011 23:26 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 13 2011 23:12 zul wrote:
Naniwa responds on twitter: "apparently people got upset when i probe rushed nestea, the game was pointless and it couldnt change anything in the tournament."
people who bought the HD Pass just to see good games from him, will not approve of this behavior. The people who bought the HD Pass knew the format of the tournament and knew that it allowed for inconsequential games. Without the incentive of winning a tournament, progamers should not try to win. No one is good enough to waste their best effort on inconsequential games, especially with how many major tournaments there are nowadays. Whatever the best strategy Naniwa had in mind for the game, he should not use it. What irrational people want and expect is for the players to put on a false show of a competition, where they both seem to be trying enough for viewers to successfully suspend their disbelief. Such people don't constitute a significant enough part of the community to justify this huge reaction. that doesn't mean he can THROW AWAY a game. Sure he can hide his strat, but at least try to play a standard game/show a good game for the fans. Lets stop lying her. THIS is more fun then a proper game. Anyone who posted anything in these threads and claims he would prefer seeing a shitty game over this drama is a liar.
Hahaha this is the core of what I am trying to hammer into peoples minds like for the last half and hour in 4 different threads.
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I will strongly complain damn it!
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People are unwilling to accept that progamers play for money, not for popularity. Nani can make his own choices and I am fine with what he did.
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On December 13 2011 23:33 Vega62a wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:26 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 13 2011 23:12 zul wrote:
Naniwa responds on twitter: "apparently people got upset when i probe rushed nestea, the game was pointless and it couldnt change anything in the tournament."
people who bought the HD Pass just to see good games from him, will not approve of this behavior. The people who bought the HD Pass knew the format of the tournament and knew that it allowed for inconsequential games. Without the incentive of winning a tournament, progamers should not try to win. No one is good enough to waste their best effort on inconsequential games, especially with how many major tournaments there are nowadays. Whatever the best strategy Naniwa had in mind for the game, he should not use it. What irrational people want and expect is for the players to put on a false show of a competition, where they both seem to be trying enough for viewers to successfully suspend their disbelief. Such people don't constitute a significant enough part of the community to justify this huge reaction. Agreed. I feel like people are still stuck with this idea that progamers are actually professional entertainers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's mixing up cause and effect - the act of competition; more specifically, the act of competing, causes entertainment. Entertainment does not cause someone to compete. If there's no way a progamer will win, it is not his job to somehow inject entertainment into a game. Sure, I'd have loved to see Nani throw everything he had at Nestea for that last game, but why would he? The game would literally be entirely for my benefit, and not at all for his, which is not how professional competition works.
Of course it is !
In every sport, every day, you see people trying even if they have no chance of advancing, even if they have nothing to prove or to win. They still do it for their FANS.
Because in professional sport, theres PROFESSIONAL :
wich is getting paid. Fans pay for it, viewers, sponsors. Everyone wants this game to be played even if its half hearted.
In professional sport, theres SPORT :
wich means that you re always playing the games with all your heart, no matter what, til the end.
This is all about PROFESSIONAL SPORT.
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On December 13 2011 23:35 Neotik wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:26 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 13 2011 23:12 zul wrote:
Naniwa responds on twitter: "apparently people got upset when i probe rushed nestea, the game was pointless and it couldnt change anything in the tournament."
people who bought the HD Pass just to see good games from him, will not approve of this behavior. The people who bought the HD Pass knew the format of the tournament and knew that it allowed for inconsequential games. Without the incentive of winning a tournament, progamers should not try to win. No one is good enough to waste their best effort on inconsequential games, especially with how many major tournaments there are nowadays. Whatever the best strategy Naniwa had in mind for the game, he should not use it. What irrational people want and expect is for the players to put on a false show of a competition, where they both seem to be trying enough for viewers to successfully suspend their disbelief. Such people don't constitute a significant enough part of the community to justify this huge reaction. this. I don't think people are focusing enough on the circumstances that allowed this to happen: a faulty and confusing tournament format. Sure Naniwa is known to BM, but not placing any of the blame on the tourney organizers is a bit delusional.
Naniwa knew the format beforehand...everybody knew. He could have declined. But just giving up as soon as there's no way to win at a faultily organized tournament is just unprofessional.
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And the assertion that the people who bought the pass knew the tournament format and thus that there might be some inconsequential games is hilariously naive. Perhaps they should have known, but I'm sure you know consumers don't make very informed purchases.
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We can't use cultural relativism to lambast Naniwa over his actions when he technically did nothing wrong by GSL tournament rules. Understandably people have subjective opinions over a subjective issue, and they are entitled to have them, but that's all they are, opinions. He doesn't deserve to be punished because he didn't follow the arbitrary, unwritten expectations of the "community" or the Korean scene or whatever other entity.
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Stop hate on him, maybe a birthay present for Nestea and Naniwa knew he wouldn't win so he did it anyways.
Haters gonna hate
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Oh man the comments on the article is delicious. Some are criticizing the article for being too combative and biased and there is this internal verbal war going on as well.
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On December 13 2011 23:38 SoylentCreep wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:35 Neotik wrote:On December 13 2011 23:26 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 13 2011 23:12 zul wrote:
Naniwa responds on twitter: "apparently people got upset when i probe rushed nestea, the game was pointless and it couldnt change anything in the tournament."
people who bought the HD Pass just to see good games from him, will not approve of this behavior. The people who bought the HD Pass knew the format of the tournament and knew that it allowed for inconsequential games. Without the incentive of winning a tournament, progamers should not try to win. No one is good enough to waste their best effort on inconsequential games, especially with how many major tournaments there are nowadays. Whatever the best strategy Naniwa had in mind for the game, he should not use it. What irrational people want and expect is for the players to put on a false show of a competition, where they both seem to be trying enough for viewers to successfully suspend their disbelief. Such people don't constitute a significant enough part of the community to justify this huge reaction. this. I don't think people are focusing enough on the circumstances that allowed this to happen: a faulty and confusing tournament format. Sure Naniwa is known to BM, but not placing any of the blame on the tourney organizers is a bit delusional. Naniwa knew the format beforehand...everybody knew. He could have declined. But just giving up as soon as there's no way to win at a faultily organized tournament is just unprofessional.
How do you know he didn't decline and was forced to play anyway?
For the record, Code S Up and Down always had inconsequential games not being played, I see no reason why it shouldn't have been the same for this tournament.
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On December 13 2011 23:34 blinken wrote:
Wow, I never realized Korean's are insane...
Naniwa is taking way too much heat. Who cares if he threw a match that didn't matter?
If anything I think Naniwa should be upset with the Koreans...
He should have known better .For someone whos living there for quite some time,i am disappointed he did it in a Korean tournament.
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On December 13 2011 23:26 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:12 zul wrote:
Naniwa responds on twitter: "apparently people got upset when i probe rushed nestea, the game was pointless and it couldnt change anything in the tournament."
people who bought the HD Pass just to see good games from him, will not approve of this behavior. The people who bought the HD Pass knew the format of the tournament and knew that it allowed for inconsequential games. Without the incentive of winning a tournament, progamers should not try to win. No one is good enough to waste their best effort on inconsequential games, especially with how many major tournaments there are nowadays. Whatever the best strategy Naniwa had in mind for the game, he should not use it. What irrational people want and expect is for the players to put on a false show of a competition, where they both seem to be trying enough for viewers to successfully suspend their disbelief. Such people don't constitute a significant enough part of the community to justify this huge reaction.
Nobody wants him to reveal his secret, most powerful strategies, but he should have done his duty and try to show a good game. A simple one-base 4-gate would have done it perfectly. Nobody would have been mad and the game still would have ended fairly early. Maybe with a win for him and his fans.
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I'm actually disappointed at the people (and even player/s) who think this isn't a big deal.
I noted Tylers response that showing their top play in unimportant games is not worth it, yes I agree. What I will also remind everyone of is that eSports as a whole is funded largely by Sponsors. Without sponsors none of this would happen. Do any of you honestly think that any sponsor would want their name all over the atrocious behavior and complete lack of game that was played by Naniwa?
If you want prize money, if you want big viewer numbers, if you want to be famous, then you need to act professional. I'm sorry but there is absolutely no place for Naniwa's behavior in tournaments such as the GSL.
Edit: I will also add that customers will not want to pay if they suspect the games will be crap, or will have players they don't care about in. I wont get excited to see Naniwa in any list anymore. I wont be the only one. If Nestea started doing stupid crap like that do you think his name would bring any value to a player list? Hell no.
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I totally agree with this article and hope Naniwa never gets to play in GSL. People dont understand how big of deal this is in the korean gaming scene, what he pulled was pure bullshit.
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Man fuck all those sensationalist people trying to start shit, don't make something out of nothing
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On December 13 2011 23:38 SoylentCreep wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:35 Neotik wrote:On December 13 2011 23:26 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 13 2011 23:12 zul wrote:
Naniwa responds on twitter: "apparently people got upset when i probe rushed nestea, the game was pointless and it couldnt change anything in the tournament."
people who bought the HD Pass just to see good games from him, will not approve of this behavior. The people who bought the HD Pass knew the format of the tournament and knew that it allowed for inconsequential games. Without the incentive of winning a tournament, progamers should not try to win. No one is good enough to waste their best effort on inconsequential games, especially with how many major tournaments there are nowadays. Whatever the best strategy Naniwa had in mind for the game, he should not use it. What irrational people want and expect is for the players to put on a false show of a competition, where they both seem to be trying enough for viewers to successfully suspend their disbelief. Such people don't constitute a significant enough part of the community to justify this huge reaction. this. I don't think people are focusing enough on the circumstances that allowed this to happen: a faulty and confusing tournament format. Sure Naniwa is known to BM, but not placing any of the blame on the tourney organizers is a bit delusional. Naniwa knew the format beforehand...everybody knew. He could have declined. But just giving up as soon as there's no way to win at a faultily organized tournament is just unprofessional.
It would have been infinitely better had he just told them he wasn't gonna play the last game. Instead he decided to show us how upset he was and that he couldn't handle himself professionally.
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On December 13 2011 23:34 Sabersharp wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:24 mind_control wrote:
nice article ever. I have to leave a comment here. well my opinion about his action on game # 9, when he started to game, and when he tried to put gg. it wasn't so arrogant or disrespectful all staffs/ gom tv people/his fans, or offend feeling bad against nestea at all. He was already 0-3 regardless his mood. his condition. regardless his purpose. Game comes always with luck/conditions. etc. Even though he put all his efforts all his life, there must be variable and not going with him unfortunately. We had thousands of fans for him before he starts that show 18:10. If he would win that games, the result could change all everything. but now he lost, we change back against him. I don't think people change. that's true. But because of that, I don't hate people. I understand every culture. and background. I understand this situation. I mean, I don't think this situation it's not his bad manner or disrespectful us. Did you think ever his schedule? He had run many games since Sep. even moved new countries, met many games. countries to countries. Do you think, he had enough journey whilst he having pause in Sweden? Didn't you read his twitter? Well, as you noticed already people(gamers) considered like a item to company(like col,qxg) they contact all the time. and it must be also stressed, maybe pro gamers don't have free time. and don't have free time enjoy themselves. After he spent 10 days after deamhack, he had to attend direct blizz cup, even changing such dramatic changing company. Didn't you think, how much he was under stress? Let's take a look one more time. Korea is mostly stress country. stress giving. more with manner-important taking. I don't think, there is pressure between naniwa-nestea. It must just certain temporary things in MLG in orlando. I cant believe people saying that issue even still now. Let's take a look in the mirror. Even we are such perfect. that we can be judged. If we see last 200-300 yrs ago genious. people didn't take as good, or genious at all. They had hard life. If I see naniwa, I see same thing. I'm not a fan or naniwa, I'm not fan of nestea either, I see all the time in the middle. I'm just saying what I see. and experienced. just people cant be perfect. Naniwa in the studio action. he just abstain. there wasn't anything disrespectful. Didnt you see his tears/eyes via youtube. when he says to you guys to fan. I could see his real heart. and how much he's thanksful to his team/fans And how much he think so important and want to communicate with you guys.
Don't blame to him. He's also just a person. He's not a beast. He seems just cold but he just doesn't show. but you guys already show and edit lots of his data right ? I'm also understand korean newspaper against to him but. We didn't see so let's not judge. I just think, this happening just can regards as abstrain. like yes, football kick his ball into his goal. He must just tired, after long trip to meet new people(where are all koreans there) . Let's try to understand him as a person. Not just score/ or money or appearance. He's now in new country, new people in his young age.
I expect another succeed in his life again. I tried to mention his schedule to say his background. Hope you guys understand a little bit too. IF you are from South Korea,you should know that Korean take gaming very seriously and dun tolerate this type of thing even when you are throwing a game that doesn't matter against Nestea. Koreans emphasize A LOT on professionalism and respect in sc2 and also in their culture.Foreigners may take this and say"meh it was a pointless game so he throwed it away"but Koreans look at differently and say you cant have that.
Oh please. Double standards and bandwagon mentality is what infest Korea. Don't give me this "honor" crap. Koreans have thrown a ton of games during Starcraft's history without netizens and weeboos making a noise.
Edit:
Btw not the whole Korean community is lambasting Naniwa over this either.
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Yeah... the whole best-of-1 layout just gave viewers a bad experience as is. GOMTV can only blame themselves for this, though personally I don't see why it's a big deal that Naniwa threw the match. It made me laugh, I thought it was awesome :D Hopefully this will just be a good learning experience for the Koreans about how foreigners view the game.
I just hope they don't like suspend him for this or something like that, Naniwa really is a good player, he just had a few bad games and got frustrated. As long as he's allowed to, I'm positive we'll be seeing him in the GSL next year, and he's more than likely to make a strong run then.
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What the hell is this kind of sensationalism?? In other words, the koreans get screwed over manners, and cannot imagine the reasoning of Naniwa of not wanting to play a meaning less game. Which it was, because both nestea and naniwa were already 0-3 and couldnt make it past their groups.
I hope no one in the western communities is even upset about this and I hope the OP makes an edit of his own opinion or see to it that he mentions this post is only a translation of korean honorable emotions.
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