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Please make sure to read the statement from Naniwa that is linked in the full article before commenting. |
On December 09 2011 20:01 dakalro wrote:
LOL, is ESFI's source a shrink, because otherwise its opinion is worthless and it's a dick move to include that part of the quote in the article.
Does ESFI's source have anything to do with Nani in SC2? It sounds more like a guy that knew Nani in WC3 if it's not col, dignitas.
I'm curious why didn't they name the organization or anything?
Now there's a site I won't be reading anymore.
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On December 09 2011 19:52 EZSkull wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 18:57 Full.tilt wrote:On December 09 2011 12:49 Piledriver wrote:On December 09 2011 11:49 Spicy_Curry wrote:On December 09 2011 11:43 aMies wrote:On December 09 2011 11:37 Hydroxyl wrote:On December 09 2011 11:26 RudePlague wrote:
The anonymous source thing is borderline slander, it offers no information and is at best just gossip spreading.
"Some guy said Naniwa is a p.o.s."
I counter with "I heard from an anonymous source that ESFI is in the pocket of coL and is staffed by terrible writers with no morals who should be ashamed to call themselves journalists."
I hope the community really goes to town on them for this as it's not good enough and we shouldn't accept it regardless of what we think about Naniwa.
Considering ESFI has Complexity ads on every page of their website I'm not surprised to see them releasing such "unbiased" articles featuring "secret informations"... Before this statement goes any further, we are in no way associated with ESFI's operations. According to an anonymous source you are lying. HMM i dont know who to believe now. Maybe you should get an editor like most journalism oriented business'? User was temp banned for this post. Do you actually read any newspapers or sites outside of e-sports ones? Seriously? Reputed journals and newspapers use anonymous sources ALL THE TIME, especially to protect the identity of the source. I mean NaNiwa is such a successful player that if some other player came out and said his feelings openly about NaNiwa, the community would roast that source alive. They do, although usually it's not to make a cowardly personal attack. It has happened. People have used sources to get information on someone and they print the information they get. For example, let's say the Yankees release Jeter from his contract. The New York finds a source, who doesn't want to be named because they know Jeter personally. Lets say that source says Jeter has been hurting the moral in the locker room because of his recent change in attitude. It's happened, that kind of stuff has been printed before.
so your argument is that anon sources are ok because mainstream media does it? phone hacking is ok because mainstream media does it? the list goes on. "other people do it" has never been a good enough argument.
if people who are knowledgable about the insider dealings but are aware that they shouldnt be speaking, are speaking then esfiworld should inform the relevent people. the chances are they are under contract to not disclose inside complexity information. so either they are breaching contract or they are breaching nani's trust. i dont see why they are put on a pedestal and protected as if they are the good guys.
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On December 09 2011 20:33 eYeball wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 20:01 dakalro wrote:
LOL, is ESFI's source a shrink, because otherwise its opinion is worthless and it's a dick move to include that part of the quote in the article.
Does ESFI's source have anything to do with Nani in SC2? It sounds more like a guy that knew Nani in WC3 if it's not col, dignitas. I'm curious why didn't they name the organization or anything? Now there's a site I won't be reading anymore.
I was starting to think that they will do something nice to scene. But after i read that - "Anonymous source" - I have lost whole respect and interest in their site.
What they done is level with tabloid press. It is common strategy to bring readers. Spread some rumors by anonymous source.
That is not professional. If they have anonymous source they should go deep into topic and keep looking until they got some source that they can name and some prof - and then make a whole article about it. As for now they came out like bad tabloid - so not gonna read them anymore.
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On December 09 2011 17:24 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 16:54 Torte de Lini wrote:On December 09 2011 14:49 lichter wrote:On December 09 2011 14:40 Torte de Lini wrote:
I don't understand. "He is the most disrespectful and unprofessional gamer I've ever had to deal with" from an anonymous source not attached from any previous SC2 organization?
Why would you write that? It doesn't mean anything, we don't know the person so we don't know who he's worked with, his limits or tolerance for potentially disrespectful people nor his experience or credibility.
So fluffy. Let's get a really juicy quote from someone, but let's not name who he is, what he's done, where he works now, his experiences, or anything personal about this source.
Let's just make it known that Naniwa is the most disrespectful person he's ever had to deal with... lol Newspapers and news organizations often use anonymous sources because the sources don't want to be named (fear of retribution, don't want attention, sworn to secrecy, etc). That doesn't make the source legitimate; it depends how much you trust the organization to use credible sources. It might be true, it might not, depends how much you trust the website. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying that knowing the source is true, we know nothing of the source. His view of "most" is circumstantial which we have none. It basically nullifies the quote by making the source anonymous. A lot of people insist that ESFI is a credible website (I don't know since I don't visit it), so chances are their sources are real and have had significant dealings with Naniwa. That doesn't mean the source's opinion is true or justified (it is, after all, just an opinion), I am just saying that the source should not be dismissed for being anonymous. It would have helped if the article had mentioned at least some background info about the source (for example, named him as an anonymous team manager, or anonymous tournament staff), certainly.
You seem to have a difficulty understanding. No one cares about ESFI's credibility, it's not even relevant whatsoever, I'm sure they are credible, who cares? How is that in question and why do you keep bringing it up? I'm not blaming them or even talking about them, I'm talking about the loophole of logic of using an anonymous source to give a poor opinion of someone.
If the person had one client throughout his entire career and it was Naniwa and he says he's the most disrespectful person he's ever dealt with, that doesn't really say much. Someone who's not on any of the major teams (a.k.a his recent teams), wants to remain anonymous and has been given no surrounding background information tells us nothing. Actually, it tells us that the guy hasn't professionally dealt with Naniwa in at least a year, we don't know what the issue was between them that made dealing with Naniwa so difficult and we don't know about the competency of the person.
It's dismissive because it tells us nothing, it's due to anonymity, but we're not dismissing purely because it's anonymous, but because it means absolutely nothing and tells us nothing whatsoever
It's just fluff to reinforce a point that is just implied. Oh and that the person had a poor time with Naniwa, lol.
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On December 09 2011 20:46 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 17:24 lichter wrote:On December 09 2011 16:54 Torte de Lini wrote:On December 09 2011 14:49 lichter wrote:On December 09 2011 14:40 Torte de Lini wrote:
I don't understand. "He is the most disrespectful and unprofessional gamer I've ever had to deal with" from an anonymous source not attached from any previous SC2 organization?
Why would you write that? It doesn't mean anything, we don't know the person so we don't know who he's worked with, his limits or tolerance for potentially disrespectful people nor his experience or credibility.
So fluffy. Let's get a really juicy quote from someone, but let's not name who he is, what he's done, where he works now, his experiences, or anything personal about this source.
Let's just make it known that Naniwa is the most disrespectful person he's ever had to deal with... lol Newspapers and news organizations often use anonymous sources because the sources don't want to be named (fear of retribution, don't want attention, sworn to secrecy, etc). That doesn't make the source legitimate; it depends how much you trust the organization to use credible sources. It might be true, it might not, depends how much you trust the website. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying that knowing the source is true, we know nothing of the source. His view of "most" is circumstantial which we have none. It basically nullifies the quote by making the source anonymous. A lot of people insist that ESFI is a credible website (I don't know since I don't visit it), so chances are their sources are real and have had significant dealings with Naniwa. That doesn't mean the source's opinion is true or justified (it is, after all, just an opinion), I am just saying that the source should not be dismissed for being anonymous. It would have helped if the article had mentioned at least some background info about the source (for example, named him as an anonymous team manager, or anonymous tournament staff), certainly. You seem to have a difficulty understanding. No one cares about ESFI's credibility, it's not even relevant whatsoever, I'm sure they are credible, who cares? How is that in question and why do you keep bringing it up? I'm not blaming them or even talking about them, I'm talking about the loophole of logic of using an anonymous source to give a poor opinion of someone. If the person had one client throughout his entire career and it was Naniwa and he says he's the most disrespectful person he's ever dealt with, that doesn't really say much. Someone who's not on any of the major teams (a.k.a his recent teams), wants to remain anonymous and has been given no surrounding background information tells us nothing. Actually, it tells us that the guy hasn't professionally dealt with Naniwa in at least a year, we don't know what the issue was between them that made dealing with Naniwa so difficult and we don't know about the competency of the person. It's dismissive because it tells us nothing, it's due to anonymity, but we're not dismissing purely because it's anonymous, but because it means absolutely nothing and tells us nothing whatsoeverIt's just fluff to reinforce a point that is just implied. Oh and that the person had a poor time with Naniwa, lol.
Why was it necessary to reinforce the known fact that Nani is difficult to have on a team for a variety of reasons with a quote that adds literally nothing and only draws controversy and quite a bit of scorn towards ESFI, as well as personally insulting Naniwa?
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Wow this is so awesome!
Imagine this!
Quantic also picks up ThorZaiN and MorroW, to form this incredible strong all-swedish pro lineup in korea (to get them all in a great mood, having friends around, talking about tactics in their native tounge), then partner up with ST and goes truely HARDCORE in GSTL.
Would be so amazing!
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I think that article is within journalism standards, compared to contemporary news outlets.
Maybe the phrasing could do with a bit more polish, but its refreshing to have a media site which actually asks the hard questions. And not just "Player X just got released for the umpteenth time, and joined another team. And it was a joyous occation!" Fact is Naniwa has a tarnished record, that in my view has the public attention to justify its focus in these kinds of articles.
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On December 09 2011 20:45 Nadarath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 20:33 eYeball wrote:On December 09 2011 20:01 dakalro wrote:
LOL, is ESFI's source a shrink, because otherwise its opinion is worthless and it's a dick move to include that part of the quote in the article.
Does ESFI's source have anything to do with Nani in SC2? It sounds more like a guy that knew Nani in WC3 if it's not col, dignitas. I'm curious why didn't they name the organization or anything? Now there's a site I won't be reading anymore. I was starting to think that they will do something nice to scene. But after i read that - "Anonymous source" - I have lost whole respect and interest in their site. What they done is level with tabloid press. It is common strategy to bring readers. Spread some rumors by anonymous source. That is not professional. If they have anonymous source they should go deep into topic and keep looking until they got some source that they can name and some prof - and then make a whole article about it. As for now they came out like bad tabloid - so not gonna read them anymore.
You really have no idea what a confidential source is do you.
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How would we ever survive without all the e-drama?
Does it really matter if Naniwa is a bastard behind the scenes? A lot of actors, musicians and athletes are assholes and yet we pay for their work or watch them play (at least I do) because they are entertaining/good at what they do. I couldn't care less if some manager have problems dealing with him. Especially since I cheer for players and not teams in SC2.
Props to Col for not creating too much drama over it all though. I can easily see how this could have turned into a much worse mud slinging than it is now.
Also regarding the annonymous quote I get the feeling it's something from before the col and dignitas time where he was suspended from the iem (?) in germany. That quote would fit with what some people involved in that situation said at that time. It's old dirty if that's the case and completey uneccesary to bring up again.
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As someone who is rooting for Naniwa its nice to see him leaving teams amicably recently.
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People are butthurt because some anonymous source of ESFI says he is unprofessional? O_o Cmon its known fact. Naniwa was in like 20 teams in his entire WC3 and SC2 career and everybody who remember ESL controversy can say that something is wrong with him...
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What's the difference between naniwa and your average ladder nerd?
Naniwa wins tournaments.
What's the difference between naniwa and idra?
Idra doesn't bite the hand that feeds him.
What's the difference between naniwa and your average ladder nerd?
Some people actually have a life , study , work ,socialize and not play videogames all day...
What's the difference between naniwa and idra?
Idra is so bad that he leaves the games before they even finish...
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On December 09 2011 21:08 monXikk wrote:
People are butthurt because some anonymous source of ESFI says he is unprofessional? O_o Cmon its known fact. Naniwa was in like 20 teams in his entire WC3 and SC2 career and everybody who remember ESL controversy can say that something is wrong with him...
That's not what most people are objecting to if you read what they actually write.
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Come on, we all know that that anonymous source is Nestea :p
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On December 09 2011 05:41 NuKedUFirst wrote:
Woah, rather unexpected.. hmm.. Princess? Is that you?
Princess changed teams in his own will.
Naniwa's contact was sold.
Unless you mean their behaviours behind the gaming? Then I dunno, Naniwa himself said that he was alone himself in Korea, which must've been very stressing for him.
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On December 09 2011 21:08 monXikk wrote:
People are butthurt because some anonymous source of ESFI says he is unprofessional? O_o Cmon its known fact. Naniwa was in like 20 teams in his entire WC3 and SC2 career and everybody who remember ESL controversy can say that something is wrong with him...
What's it like not being able to properly read? Everyone is clear on what they're saying, yet you somehow misunderstand?
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On December 09 2011 21:08 monXikk wrote:
People are butthurt because some anonymous source of ESFI says he is unprofessional? O_o Cmon its known fact. Naniwa was in like 20 teams in his entire WC3 and SC2 career and everybody who remember ESL controversy can say that something is wrong with him...
No one disputes that Naniwa is known to have a bad attitude.
People are arguing about:
1. Whether having a bad attitude even matters, as long as he gets results and wins tournaments
2. Whether an anonymous source (and by extension, news outlets that use them) has any credibility when no background is given
3. I think some people were also arguing that star players are more important than their teams, whatevs
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you all are so hellbent on feeding on your drama you cant accept an anon source and realize that people HAVE to be anonymous to make any comment at all, or they're just fucked.
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Also, i dont understand what the issue really is in general.
point 1: No matter who you are, no matter what your personality is, when you sign on to a team you sign up and accept whatever rules and standards they set. You are not bigger than that just because of who you are.
point 2: if this were football and a player was a continuous pain in the ass it would also be dealt with. because in football they have professionalism and standards. you might not like or see or understand or have the maturity to grasp that professionalism actually is important in creating and upholding esports, but...it kind of actually is. so grow up.
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On December 09 2011 21:02 ch33psh33p wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 20:45 Nadarath wrote:On December 09 2011 20:33 eYeball wrote:On December 09 2011 20:01 dakalro wrote:
LOL, is ESFI's source a shrink, because otherwise its opinion is worthless and it's a dick move to include that part of the quote in the article.
Does ESFI's source have anything to do with Nani in SC2? It sounds more like a guy that knew Nani in WC3 if it's not col, dignitas. I'm curious why didn't they name the organization or anything? Now there's a site I won't be reading anymore. I was starting to think that they will do something nice to scene. But after i read that - "Anonymous source" - I have lost whole respect and interest in their site. What they done is level with tabloid press. It is common strategy to bring readers. Spread some rumors by anonymous source. That is not professional. If they have anonymous source they should go deep into topic and keep looking until they got some source that they can name and some prof - and then make a whole article about it. As for now they came out like bad tabloid - so not gonna read them anymore. You really have no idea what a confidential source is do you.
I exactly know what is confidential source... But i object to using that type of information.
They would better investigate that matter based on confidential source information and get to the bottom of matter when they can use real names. As it is for now I treat their "confidential source" as rumor spreading.
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On December 09 2011 21:46 Nadarath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 21:02 ch33psh33p wrote:On December 09 2011 20:45 Nadarath wrote:On December 09 2011 20:33 eYeball wrote:On December 09 2011 20:01 dakalro wrote:
LOL, is ESFI's source a shrink, because otherwise its opinion is worthless and it's a dick move to include that part of the quote in the article.
Does ESFI's source have anything to do with Nani in SC2? It sounds more like a guy that knew Nani in WC3 if it's not col, dignitas. I'm curious why didn't they name the organization or anything? Now there's a site I won't be reading anymore. I was starting to think that they will do something nice to scene. But after i read that - "Anonymous source" - I have lost whole respect and interest in their site. What they done is level with tabloid press. It is common strategy to bring readers. Spread some rumors by anonymous source. That is not professional. If they have anonymous source they should go deep into topic and keep looking until they got some source that they can name and some prof - and then make a whole article about it. As for now they came out like bad tabloid - so not gonna read them anymore. You really have no idea what a confidential source is do you. I exactly know what is confidential source... But i object to using that type of information. They would better investigate that matter based on confidential source information and get to the bottom of matter when they can use real names. As it is for now I treat their "confidential source" as rumor spreading.
real names = potentially career ending for esfi and the actual source involved.
how do you not get that?
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EPT
